Black woman in Hackney complains that her community is changing

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  • FizixFizix Posts: 16,932
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    Do you make similar comments about black culture?

    Lol really?



    Irrespective of whether I could take the peepee out of stupid auto tuned rap music with stupid bubblegum lyrics about da club, I can mock stupid pretentious retro crap that originates from the same race as me.
  • rupert_pupkinrupert_pupkin Posts: 3,975
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    kitty86 wrote: »
    She also said if the same number of black people congregated on the street they would be told to move on.

    I wonder why that part of the quote was missed out.

    Good point

    "Now, if you walk along Kingsland Road on weekend nights, there will be several dozen people standing outside the retro bars and clubs, and, I’m sorry to say, they are all white. It’s impossible not to notice. If the same number of black people congregated on a street, they would be told to move on"

    That was the only reason and the only time she mentioned race, and it's a fair point. She didn't complain about white people moving in once and even said herself that she doesn't like the word hipster. Nice try though OP
  • Jol44Jol44 Posts: 21,048
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    Fizix wrote: »
    Lol really?

    Well do you?

    That's a no isn't it.
  • malpascmalpasc Posts: 9,626
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    I can understand some of what she is saying.

    I live in an area of East London where gentrification has been happening for around about 18 months to 2 years and has changed quite a lot of the shops, pubs and services in the area from serving a white working class community to a more middle class, trendy community. On one hand this is fine - the businesses are benefitting from customers with more money utilising them, and it gives people 'nicer' places to go without leaving the area to do so, but some of the "born and bred" locals are probably feeling pushed out because their local boozer selling a pint for £2.50 is now a gastro pub selling beers for £4+ a pint as well as £15 burgers etc.

    I am white, ostensibly middle class and quite fashion-aware working in the media but even I can see problems with the way things are going. People who have always lived in the area are often pushed out because not only can they not afford to use the local businesses anymore but they can't afford the housing because prices rise and rents rise in line with the more affluent population.

    I don't know what the cure is really as this kind of thing has always happened - the economics of areas have always changed. It just seems unfair that not everyone can take part in the changing of their locality.
  • kitty86kitty86 Posts: 7,034
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    So she'll have to move on, as people have done for centuries although I can't help feeling that her real issue is that she doesn't want a black area taken over by white 'hipsters'.

    No the issue is that she doesn't want to be priced out of the area she lives in, she says it over and over again. Furthermore she is born and bred in England but she should move on, however as you love to point out if that was the other way around and it was a white born and bred person forced to move out there would be an issue.

    As I said before which was ignored when black people/ immigrants and the like move into an area prices don't seen to shoot up and people are not made to pay more for living where they do.
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    Good point

    "Now, if you walk along Kingsland Road on weekend nights, there will be several dozen people standing outside the retro bars and clubs, and, I’m sorry to say, they are all white. It’s impossible not to notice. If the same number of black people congregated on a street, they would be told to move on"

    That was the only reason and the only time she mentioned race, and it's a fair point.

    Why put "I'm sorry to say"?
  • TakaeTakae Posts: 13,555
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    So why does she mention it?

    Probably because historically, Hackney and Dalston have been a home to people of different ethnicities. Long, long before the 1940s. William Cuffay, mixed-race black and one of leaders of Chartism (English working-class political movement), was born in Kent in 1788 and lived and worked in Hackney from 1818 onwards, for instance.

    If I read her comments right, she's complaining that it's increasingly no longer mixed. Such is life.

    That said, I don't appreciate your comments about Hackney residents. Drug pushers and gangs? Last time I checked, my white and ethnically Japanese relatives aren't drug pushers and gangsters. As the one who was born and partly raised in Hackney, I know I wasn't one.

    Hackney is not a 'black area'. There was an Irish-born white family on the left of my first childhood home, and a London-born Greek family on the right and a London-born Caribbean black family opposite us was a family of accountants and whoa! a lecturer in maritime history (the guy was boring as hell, though). At the moment, my London-born ethnically Japanese cousin lives with a Scottish white bloke in a house between an American Italian family and a French black couple.
  • rupert_pupkinrupert_pupkin Posts: 3,975
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    Why put "I'm sorry to say"?

    Because she didn't want to sound racist while making her point that a group of black people in the same area would be asked to move on
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    kitty86 wrote: »
    No the issue is that she doesn't want to be priced out of the area she lives in, she says it over and over again. Furthermore she is born and bred in England but she should move on, however as you love to point out if that was the other way around and it was a white born and bred person forced to move out there would be an issue.

    As I said before which was ignored when black people/ immigrants and the like move into an area prices don't seen to shoot up and people are not made to pay more for living where they do.

    Honestly, tough ****.

    Communities change all the time and there's always a losing side. She'll have to get used to the idea that this time, she's on it.
  • FizixFizix Posts: 16,932
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    Jol44 wrote: »
    Well do you?

    That's a no isn't it.

    See my edit, answer is yes!

    People take the piss out of mainstream and sub mainstream culture all the time, irrespective of where it may come from.
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    Equally hilarious is her claim that it was allegedly "impossible not to notice" the group of whites on Kingsland Road. I thought everyone was supposed to be colour-blind these days when it came to race. Now there's her saying that the whites stuck out like a sore thumb in 'her' community.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 6,899
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    The OP has just blown the woman's comment way out of proportion IMO.
  • TakaeTakae Posts: 13,555
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    kitty86 wrote: »
    No the issue is that she doesn't want to be priced out of the area she lives in, she says it over and over again. Furthermore she is born and bred in England but she should move on, however as you love to point out if that was the other way around and it was a white born and bred person forced to move out there would be an issue.

    As I said before which was ignored when black people/ immigrants and the like move into an area prices don't seen to shoot up and people are not made to pay more for living where they do.

    Good post.
  • kitty86kitty86 Posts: 7,034
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    Honestly, tough ****.

    Communities change all the time and there's always a losing side. She'll have to get used to the idea that this time, she's on it.

    So you would feel the same if it was a white person complaining about the same? Or if your local high street suddenly tripled in price or your rent doubled, that would be fine of course.
  • kitty86kitty86 Posts: 7,034
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    Equally hilarious is her claim that it was allegedly "impossible not to notice" the group of whites on Kingsland Road. I thought everyone was supposed to be colour-blind these days when it came to race. Now there's her saying that the whites stuck out like a sore thumb in 'her' community.

    I think you read a completely different article to the one you actually linked too, and right now you are clutching at straws and looking foolish in the process.
  • rupert_pupkinrupert_pupkin Posts: 3,975
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    Great quote to finish the article

    "London belongs to all of us. Not just those who can afford to pay £5 for a cappuccino"

    Unfortunately this will happen everywhere in London, it's inevitable. Poor people will be pushed further and further out. Let's see how OP feels when all the poorest people from every part of London rock up in their town
  • MidnightFalconMidnightFalcon Posts: 15,016
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    Why put "I'm sorry to say"?

    Because "I'm not being racist but..." tends to raise eyebrows.
  • KapellmeisterKapellmeister Posts: 41,322
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    kitty86 wrote: »
    So you would feel the same if it was a white person complaining about the same? Or if your local high street suddenly tripled in price or your rent doubled, that would be fine of course.

    White people have complained about their communities changing for decades.
  • jclock66jclock66 Posts: 2,411
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    Great quote to finish the article

    "London belongs to all of us. Not just those who can afford to pay £5 for a cappuccino"

    No, London belongs to people that can afford to live there and if she doesn't want to pay £5 for a cappuccino then I suggest she just drinks them at home.
  • ShrikeShrike Posts: 16,592
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    kitty86 wrote: »
    So you would feel the same if it was a white person complaining about the same? Or if your local high street suddenly tripled in price or your rent doubled, that would be fine of course.

    Its been happening for decades in various parts of London. I suppose its been quite marked in Hackney as it was so very deprived before, though really no different to what happened in Nottinghill back in the '70s and '80s and to Deptford / Docklands shortly after.
    Whats interesting is why it took so long - Hackney has always been very close to the centre though its transport links aren't very good. I expect the Olympics were the catalyst that finally kicked it off.

    And its not just London - my house in Forest Fields, Nottingham, trebled in just a few years in the late '90s and 00s. Luckily I owned it so I wasn't moaning;-) Though I appreciate its not good for the youngsters coming along next.
  • kitty86kitty86 Posts: 7,034
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    White people have complained about their communities changing for decades.

    Oh you have that selective quote bolding & answering disorder.

    I get it now, explains a lot.
  • malpascmalpasc Posts: 9,626
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    jclock66 wrote: »
    No, London belongs to people that can afford to live there and if she doesn't want to pay £5 for a cappuccino then I suggest she just drinks them at home.

    But what if you live in an area you could afford to live in and find that you are gradually being pushed out by people with more money?

    I'm not disagreeing with what you say, but it isn't always straightforward. Gentrification can be great if it helps everyone in the community but a lot of the time it tends to leave people behind and they tend to be the people who have the least power to do or say anything about it.
  • What name??What name?? Posts: 26,623
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    Why put "I'm sorry to say"?

    Because she's forty that the only people that can afford the more expensive places are white. What's wrong with that?
  • rupert_pupkinrupert_pupkin Posts: 3,975
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    jclock66 wrote: »
    No, London belongs to people that can afford to live there and if she doesn't want to pay £5 for a cappuccino then I suggest she just drinks them at home.

    The hipsters will be moaning when the Chinese and UAE'rs (?) buy up hackney and a flat costs at least a million and a cappuccino costs £97.50

    I suppose there's no room for sentiment when money is involved, it's a shame
  • What name??What name?? Posts: 26,623
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    Honestly, tough ****.

    Communities change all the time and there's always a losing side. She'll have to get used to the idea that this time, she's on it.

    There is no mention of her being on the losing side. The piece is about youngsters being priced out of areas they grew up in. I can't help noticing that she's not in that group.

    Now according to your theory my noticing that makes me ageist....
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