Game of Thrones Season 4 [BOOK DISCUSSION ALLOWED]
KookyKatie
Posts: 3,031 Forum Member
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Simple rules:
‣ No TV spoilers - if you somehow know what will be coming in future episodes of the TV show, please use spoiler tags.
‣ Book discussion allowed - feel free to discuss any book-related stuff in this thread. Avoid mentioning book stuff in the other thread, how ever tempting it might be.
‣ US Pace - in the UK, I believe the episodes will typically a day after they do in the US. Bear this in mind before you enter this thread, because US pace discussion is allowed.
‣ No TV spoilers - if you somehow know what will be coming in future episodes of the TV show, please use spoiler tags.
‣ Book discussion allowed - feel free to discuss any book-related stuff in this thread. Avoid mentioning book stuff in the other thread, how ever tempting it might be.
‣ US Pace - in the UK, I believe the episodes will typically a day after they do in the US. Bear this in mind before you enter this thread, because US pace discussion is allowed.
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Comments
I'm surprised by the reappearance of Ser Dontos - isn't that as far back as A Clash of Kings? I do hope Sansa's storyline doesn't continue to drag. She needs to be given the opportunity to wise up and develop her skills as a courtier this season.
Were Oberyn and Ellaria ever depicted fooling around in brothels? It's been a very long time since I read books 3 and 4, but I always remember them as seductive rather than the whoring sort. They have oodles and oodles of charisma though. I loved the way Oberyn put his hand under Tyrion's chin. "SAY HER NAME!"
The choice to bring Shae into Sansa's circle was a masterstroke. It makes her inevitable betrayal all the more understandable.
Love Shae, she's obviously a different person from the books, but this episode, you can actually tell that the character is going to go down the same course as her book counterpart.
Margaery is amazing on screen and so I'm so happy she is a main player on the tv show. Olenna, too, is awesome.
Looking forward to seeing more of the Dornish, the Vale of Aaryn and.. Well everything tbh.
Who thinks Lady Stoneheart is going to appear? I know a lot of people think she won't, and if she does, Michelle Fairly won't be in the role. I really hope this is NOT the case. I want MF to play her, or it just won't sit right with me.
About Lady Stoneheart:
If they bring back a different character as Lady Stoneheart then that would also make no sense because her whole arc is revenge for the destruction of her family at the hands on the Frey's, Lannister's and Bolton's. Briennes story is about keeping her oath to Jaime and at the same time betraying her oath to Catelyn Stark. How will they do this without bringing Lady Stoneheart into the mix?
Brienne is one of the most interesting and unique characters in the series. She's an ugly female warrior, but somehow the closest thing there is to a true knight, inspiring honour in a man whose life story is besmirched with misdeeds. Yet for all that, her travelogue in A Feast For Crows was excessively long, and I hope they will steer clear of that.
Depending on how the TV series adapts the book, Margaery and Olenna might not be in Kings Landing for that much longer to rescue Sansa from the evil clutches of the Lannister's. Let's not forget that Brienne's sole mission is to make certain Sansa and Arya are safe. If Sansa somehow escapes King's Landing, Brienne won't be far behind her. I agree that her journey in A Feast For Crows was excessively long, so hopefully the show will condense it into a more enjoyable way.
I'm surprised there are people doubting Lady Stoneheart/Michelle Fairly's return. I'm 99% sure she'll appear. Lady Stoneheart is perfect season cliffhanger material, and she appears to be pretty important in Brienne and Jaime's storylines in the future. Also, what would have been the point of introducing Thoros and Beric's resurrections in the show if they weren't going to use it later for Stoneheart's appearance? I'm also certain Michelle Fairly will return if Lady Stoneheart appears. As you say, it wouldn't be right otherwise.
They also made a point of Sansa stating "her throat slit to the bone and then her body thrown in to the river" which I thought was put in because of what will come in the future.
It's certainly suggested that he is (by Tyrion I think) but as he isn't a PoV we never see any proof.
A lot of people were expecting to see her at the end of Season 3. Seasons 1 and 2 ended with a supernatural scene and it was speculated that the Season 3 end scene would be LS' resurrection (which was not seen as such in the book.)
Couple of quick questions: I'm assuming Joffrey will croak this season? Is it too early for Tywin, or did those come about at roughly the same time? What about Arya? Will we see her in that crazy place soon?
Spoilers for upcoming episodes.
So we can officially say that the Show has started adapting material from Winds of Winter
Do you mean the Arya chapter? That is much later isn't it?
In the chapter
So while Arya getting revenge for Lommy is a lot later in the book narrative it's been brought forward in the show.
Yes, both he and Ellaria definitely were. I actually thought the scene was quite a good introduction to the sexual liberty of Dornish culture, and I'm glad they made their bisexuality explicit (which is so rare on TV). Admittedly, the nudity wasn't needed to convey this, or they could have at least had Olyvar be just as naked as the women. Otherwise it just becomes yet another example of the female/male nudity discrepancy, which makes any scenes with nudity seem even more forced than they tend to already.
RE: Lady Stoneheart, Michelle's reaction during this video makes it seem like she will be appearing this series. I'm assuming it'll be the final scene, just as it is in A Storm of Swords.
I like that they've introduced Oberyn, and brought Dontos back it was bugging me that he wasn't in last season. IMO they could've cut the Dany scenes and nothing of value would've been lost.
I think with the books the characters' timelines were split off by book 4, so half the characters in 4 and half in 5 as it got too much to handle in one volume. And somewhere, GRRM has said he intends to totally change some characters' story arcs in the show, and it will appear to go out of sequence, compared to the books, as he doesn't have the same restrictions he had with novels where he ended up having to drop half his characters for books 4 & 5, etc.
Loved it last night. Great to start with Charles Dance as well. Who better?
Re. Joffrey... In the trailers they showed yesterday, and looking at next week's episode title, it looks like
I've also read the books and forgot the details but think maybe this series Arya will
We had Qyburn fitting Jaime's golden hand - could easily have been done by Pycelle as they like to combine characters where possible.
We had Oberyn mention The Mountain and that lannisters aren't the only ones to pay their debts.
I have to say Charles Dance totally acts everyone else of screen. He was perfectly cast as Tywin, I can't wait for
I would've liked a little more Margaery in the episode, I know Sansa is the damsel in distress in the books, but I feel that everytime Sansa pops up, Margaery should too as a counterpoint (at least in this part of the story). That's just me being greedy though.
Also, they highlighted Qyburn's experiments with living humans in Season 3 in his conversation with Jaime. And they've already started a relationship between Cersei and Qyburn this early on. So I agree, I think there's a good possibility we'll see Qyburn re-animated the Mountain for Cersei's trial.
That would have been too soon though, and ruined the effect of the Red Wedding if she came back just an episode later in my opinion. A whole season later will be more effective, similar to how LS's appearance was half a book later- not one or two chapters later. Though, at least it would have been better than Dany crowd-surfing- that was quite disappointing after dragons and White Walkers.
I think the final two scenes in Season 4 will be exactly like in the books: Littlefinger throwing Lysa out the moon door after saying he loved "Only Cat" and then the scene with Catelyn's return as Lady Stoneheart. The "Only Cat" scene leads perfectly into Catelyn's return imo.
I HOPE they end it that way! For those who havent read the books it'll be a real WTF moment
I wanted the Show to actually show us the resurrection though rather than just say that Beric gave up his life for Catelyn off screen somewhere and the end of Season 4 IMO is too late for this as it would imply that Cat was in the river for months
I suppose we could still get a Wolf dream from Arya mid season showing Nymeria dragging an unknown body from a River and then have the Brotherhood ride up.
If they do the actual reveal as the last scene of Season 4 I can see them making it the meeting with Brienne rather than some random Frey being the one that recognises Cat. Or maybe a combo of the two, Brienne is captured and is brought to the camp as a Frey is being hanged.
Who will take the blame for Lysa, didn't they already kill Marillion? Perhaps they'll keep Dontos around and use him as a scapegoat...