Brexit: NHS 'may struggle' without more non-UK staff

TheEngineerTheEngineer Posts: 7,785
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38981129
Brexit threatens to make a crisis in health service recruitment worse, an assembly committee has been warned by a range of medical organisations.

The Welsh NHS Confederation said overseas recruitment was "significant" and should not be restricted.

The Royal College of Emergency Medicine warned that the falling value of the pound made the UK less attractive.

It said the health and social care systems will "struggle to function" without more non-UK staff being hired.

BIB - It appears that it isn't quite as simple as some Brexiteers would have you believe and that we can "control" who we let in. People have to want to come here n the first place and with the fall in the value of the pound and the recent news about the rise in reported hate incidents the people with the skills we want may decide to go to other countries instead.
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  • DaccoDacco Posts: 3,354
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    Supposition, Scaremongering and above all #Fakenews.
  • Glyn WGlyn W Posts: 5,819
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    Dacco wrote: »
    Supposition, Scaremongering and above all #Fakenews.

    So you're saying the falling value of the pound doesn't make the UK less attractive??

    I wouldn't call that fake.
  • MAWMAW Posts: 38,777
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    You'd be surprised, Mr Engineer, on the countries of origin of NHS staff. Not many Poles there, you know. It's construction you should be worrying about. On the bright side there though, I'm sure our historic tie with Ireland will come in handy.
  • innitrichieinnitrichie Posts: 9,795
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    The NHS as we know it will cease to exist if we get an extreme brexit. Ask anyone in the NHS and they'll tell you the same.
  • pedrokpedrok Posts: 16,758
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    Dacco wrote: »
    Supposition, Scaremongering and above all #Fakenews.

    What is fake about it?
  • TheEngineerTheEngineer Posts: 7,785
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    MAW wrote: »
    You'd be surprised, Mr Engineer, on the countries of origin of NHS staff. Not many Poles there, you know. It's construction you should be worrying about. On the bright side there though, I'm sure our historic tie with Ireland will come in handy.

    I have a close family member that works in the NHS, another that works for the CQC and several others that work in the Social Care sector.

    They all say that recruiting good staff is one of the biggest challenges they have.
  • TheEngineerTheEngineer Posts: 7,785
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    pedrok wrote: »
    What is fake about it?

    You need to understand - calling something "fake news" is shorthand for "I don't like this and don't want to believe it but can't prove it wrong so I will call it fake news"
  • clinchclinch Posts: 11,574
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    aurichie wrote: »
    The NHS as we know it will cease to exist if we get an extreme brexit. Ask anyone in the NHS and they'll tell you the same.

    It's not Brexit that threatens the NHS; it's the current UK Government.
  • Calvin93Calvin93 Posts: 328
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    clinch wrote: »
    It's not Brexit that threatens the NHS; it's the current UK Government.

    Exactly but you know Remoaners. Everything is Brexit's fault.
  • pedrokpedrok Posts: 16,758
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    You need to understand - calling something "fake news" is shorthand for "I don't like this and don't want to believe it but can't prove it wrong so I will call it fake news"

    Absolutely. That or just attack the person that is telling them something they don't want to hear.

    Just, no matter what happens, accept the consequences of, what I believe, is the most monumentally stupid decision, this country has taken in the last 70 years.
  • vanzandtfanvanzandtfan Posts: 8,897
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-38981129



    BIB - It appears that it isn't quite as simple as some Brexiteers would have you believe and that we can "control" who we let in. People have to want to come here n the first place and with the fall in the value of the pound and the recent news about the rise in reported hate incidents the people with the skills we want may decide to go to other countries instead.

    Erm...

    Brexit will cause 'vanishingly small' fall in net migration – report

    And look started that thread!

    You seem willing to believe any bad news about Brexit, even when it directly contradicts other bad news you believe about Brexit.
  • Calvin93Calvin93 Posts: 328
    Forum Member
    Erm...

    Brexit will cause 'vanishingly small' fall in net migration – report

    And look started that thread!

    You seem willing to believe any bad news about Brexit, even when it directly contradicts other bad news you believe about Brexit.

    Thanks for this. I had a feeling this happened but as the op starts so many threads I couldn't be sure.
  • alan29alan29 Posts: 34,612
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    I am sure that any future immigration system will prioritise NHS staff.
    Its cheaper than training our own.
    And who cares if it strips poorer countries of much needed medical specialists?
  • TheEngineerTheEngineer Posts: 7,785
    Forum Member
    Erm...

    Brexit will cause 'vanishingly small' fall in net migration – report

    And look started that thread!

    You seem willing to believe any bad news about Brexit, even when it directly contradicts other bad news you believe about Brexit.

    Of course they are not contradictory.

    We could have 200,000 more builders come in next year and 199,000 fewer NHS workers. This would be a "vanishingly small" drop in immigration but severely impact the NHS.
  • Calvin93Calvin93 Posts: 328
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    alan29 wrote: »
    I am sure that any future immigration system will prioritise NHS staff.
    Its cheaper than training our own.
    And who cares if it strips poorer countries of much needed medical specialists?

    Point well made.

    Of course Remainers think they know best ;)
  • TheEngineerTheEngineer Posts: 7,785
    Forum Member
    alan29 wrote: »
    I am sure that any future immigration system will prioritise NHS staff.
    Its cheaper than training our own.
    And who cares if it strips poorer countries of much needed medical specialists?

    Indeed - assuming, as I said, that they decide to come here and not go to the other countries that need trained health specialists.
  • HotgossipHotgossip Posts: 22,385
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    I have a close family member that works in the NHS, another that works for the CQC and several others that work in the Social Care sector.

    They all say that recruiting good staff is one of the biggest challenges they have.

    I think it's lack of training courses for medical staff. Our health authority or PCT or whatever they call it at the moment has just sent senior staff to Poland to recruit paramedics which is totally wrong as we should be training more here.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health/six_paramedics_recruited_following_44_000_east_of_england_ambulance_trust_visit_to_poland_1_4890807

    We read of staff being sent to Spain, Portugal, the Phillipines and other countries to recruit nurses .... again, because we are not training enough here.
  • pedrokpedrok Posts: 16,758
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    Calvin93 wrote: »
    Point well made.

    Of course Remainers think they know best ;)

    I comfort myself in the knowledge that what ever sort of Brexit is decided, we, the British people, will be allowed to express our will and decide if we agree with it in a referendum.

    After all, the will of the British people is paramount.
  • innitrichieinnitrichie Posts: 9,795
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    pedrok wrote: »
    I comfort myself in the knowledge that what ever sort of Brexit is decided, we, the British people, will be allowed to express our will and decide if we agree with it in a referendum.

    After all, the will of the British people is paramount.

    We're never getting a vote on the final extreme brexit deal, because they know it would be rejected in a landslide verdict.
  • James_OrtonJames_Orton Posts: 2,371
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    Haven't I read this thread before. Maybe yesterday.
  • alan29alan29 Posts: 34,612
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    Calvin93 wrote: »
    Point well made.

    Of course Remainers think they know best ;)

    Actually I voted remain.
    But I also believe that life is rarely as binary as others seem to think.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 0
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    Hotgossip wrote: »
    I think it's lack of training courses for medical staff. Our health authority or PCT or whatever they call it at the moment has just sent senior staff to Poland to recruit paramedics which is totally wrong as we should be training more here.

    http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/health/six_paramedics_recruited_following_44_000_east_of_england_ambulance_trust_visit_to_poland_1_4890807

    We read of staff being sent to Spain, Portugal, the Phillipines and other countries to recruit nurses .... again, because we are not training enough here.

    It's not about training anyone, it's about the ridiculous wages the NHS pays, which until the drop of the pound still seemed attractive to people from other, poorer countries but this advantage is now disappearing.

    Why would a UK citizen want to work as a paramedic, dealing with blood and gore and working unsociable hours, for £18,000 a year when they could earn the same doing office admin or indeed, to take it to the extreme, be not much worse off by not working at all.

    Now if you tell us where the NHS would get the money from to increase the paramedic wages to the mid to upper 20s then we might be able to find a solution.
  • IronwithinIronwithin Posts: 461
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    I am sure we had a NHS before Labour opened the flood gates to all of the EU and we will still have it after. It is a disgrace that more of our own people are not given the chances to train as nurses and doctors.
    i would like to know how much use EU nationals make of the NHS as every time i am at the doctors it is full of forgeiners waiting. How can the NHS not have been put under pressure that was not forseen when millions of EU nationals came here, when Labour thought it would be in the 10's of thousands.
  • alan29alan29 Posts: 34,612
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    Ironwithin wrote: »
    I am sure we had a NHS before Labour opened the flood gates to all of the EU and we will still have it after. It is a disgrace that more of our own people are not given the chances to train as nurses and doctors.
    i would like to know how much use EU nationals make of the NHS as every time i am at the doctors it is full of forgeiners waiting. How can the NHS not have been put under pressure that was not forseen when millions of EU nationals came here, when Labour thought it would be in the 10's of thousands.

    Having quotas on the number of student places in nursing and medicine hasn't helped. Neither has charging trainee nurses for their training while making them work 50% of their time on the wards.
  • Rastus PiefaceRastus Pieface Posts: 4,382
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    aurichie wrote: »
    The NHS as we know it will cease to exist if we get an extreme brexit. Ask anyone in the NHS and they'll tell you the same.
    aurichie wrote: »
    We're never getting a vote on the final extreme brexit deal, because they know it would be rejected in a landslide verdict.

    blimey. we've gone from brexit, to hard brexit, to extreme brexit. what next? armageddon brexit?:D:D

    is this the politics forum or the doom porn forum?
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