The Carpenters vs Abba vs Whitney vs Madonna

djfunnymandjfunnyman Posts: 12,518
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Similarly to the Elvis vs The Beatles vs MJ vs Oasis thread, here is a similar thread about female artists (I know The Carpenters and Abba have men in the group but they aren't the lead vocalists). How would you rank these artists?

The Carpenters - Very moving ballads, Karen Carpenter has a very distinctive voice. She died too young

Whitney - Excellent soul singer with a wide range of material, again died too young

Madonna - Was groundbreaking in the 80's, not remained as good more recently and not taken seriously because of her habit dating much younger men

Abba - Most people's guilty pleasures, they also have some moving ballads
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Comments

  • SoupietwistSoupietwist Posts: 1,314
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    Karen Carpenter had a great voice but their songs are mostly twee and bland.
    Whitney for me is completely unlistenable, can't stand those note holding balladeerers.
    Madonna can do great songs on rare occasions - frozen, like a prayer. But to offer tries to be edgy and modern.
    Abba have written some great pop songs and yes they can be cheesy on occasion.

    So..

    Abba > Madge > Carpenters > Whitney.

    Kindoff an odd selection really.
  • djfunnymandjfunnyman Posts: 12,518
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    Karen Carpenter had a great voice but their songs are mostly twee and bland.
    Whitney for me is completely unlistenable, can't stand those note holding balladeerers.
    Madonna can do great songs on rare occasions - frozen, like a prayer. But to offer tries to be edgy and modern.
    Abba have written some great pop songs and yes they can be cheesy on occasion.

    So..

    Abba > Madge > Carpenters > Whitney.

    Kindoff an odd selection really.

    Not really, in my view they are the most famous female artists
  • SoupietwistSoupietwist Posts: 1,314
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    djfunnyman wrote: »
    Not really, in my view they are the most famous female artists

    Really? I can think or several names I'd put before Karen Carpenter in terms of famous female artists, and the ABBA lasses.
  • dearmrmandearmrman Posts: 21,435
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    djfunnyman wrote: »
    Not really, in my view they are the most famous female artists

    Would agree with Madonna, as for the others maybe the likes off:-

    Kate Bush, Debbie Harry, Beyonce, Ella Fitzgerald, Tina Turner, Diana Ross, Cher, Suzi Quatro, Joni Mitchell, Janis Joplin, Dusty Springfield, Aretha Franklin, Nina Simone...probably all ahead of Karen Carpenter & Abba.
  • Derek FayeDerek Faye Posts: 1,081
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    The Carpenters every single time
  • RocketpopRocketpop Posts: 1,350
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    The Carpenters are pure cheese, the most easy listening of easy listening. The nicest word I can use to sum up there music is pleasant.

    There is a certain level of high camp to ABBA's music - but a lot of their hits are at least catchy.

    I really can't stand either Madonna or Whitney.

    I guess it'd have to be ABBA by default really.
  • mushymanrobmushymanrob Posts: 17,992
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    karen carpenter had by far the best individual singing voice... but as others have pointed out are very cheesy.

    abba.. get past dancing queen, mama mia, and a few others where producers/composers (in benny bjorn) of some complex and intelligently composed music.

    madge?... cant deny her longevity and success, although many (like me) dont like nor respect her recent material.

    whitney?.... pmsl... not in the same league at all.

    singing wise ... carpenters, abba, madge, whitney

    impact and influence ... madge, abba, carpenters, whitney

    quality of composition ... abba, madge, carpenters/whitney == last.
  • Rae_AmuryRae_Amury Posts: 588
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    I listen only to the late 80's - mid 00's Madonna.

    Can't stand the cheese the others are offering.
  • LMLM Posts: 63,327
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    I won't be ranking as neither are alike at all. Very different in their ways.

    It would be a fair discussion and comparison if you put four artists similar to one another in a debate

    It would be like putting Susan Boyle, Slipknot, Tori Amos and Eminem together. All four couldn't be any further form another to be put together is VS.
  • djfunnymandjfunnyman Posts: 12,518
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    I won't be ranking as neither are alike at all. Very different in their ways.

    It would be a fair discussion and comparison if you put four artists similar to one another in a debate

    It would be like putting Susan Boyle, Slipknot, Tori Amos and Eminem together. All four couldn't be any further form another to be put together is VS.

    Do you think The Beatles, Elvis, MJ and Oasis are at all similar? As I think they are further apart than the artists in this thread
  • dearmrmandearmrman Posts: 21,435
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    djfunnyman wrote: »
    Do you think The Beatles, Elvis, MJ and Oasis are at all similar? As I think they are further apart than the artists in this thread

    Well I would say Elvis had an influence on The Beatles, The Beatles had an influence on Oasis, and I would imagine in some way both Elvis & The Beatles had an influence on MJ.

    Your list nothing at all in anyway similar or influence on each other, just random names cobbled together..and even then you put a mixed group in.
  • MrMarpleMrMarple Posts: 3,424
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    Voice - Karen Carpenter

    Songs - Difficult to choose between Madonna & Abba really.

    Whitney is a difficult one. Yes she had a good voice, but her songs were pretty generic for the most part. For example, 'I wanna dance with somebody'. Huge single, but in reality, any female singer from the 80's could have recorded it and it would still have been a big hit IMO.
    Saying that though, 'My Love is Your Love' is a fantastic album.
  • djfunnymandjfunnyman Posts: 12,518
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    dearmrman wrote: »
    Well I would say Elvis had an influence on The Beatles, The Beatles had an influence on Oasis, and I would imagine in some way both Elvis & The Beatles had an influence on MJ.

    Your list nothing at all in anyway similar or influence on each other, just random names cobbled together..and even then you put a mixed group in.

    Well both Abba and The Carpenters lead vocalists are female

    So you think that a Whitney vs Gladys Knight vs Aretha vs Diana Ross thread would be better, even though those artists are quite similar and you can't really make any comparisons? That said, I would be interested in how people would rank those artists
  • LMLM Posts: 63,327
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    djfunnyman wrote: »
    Do you think The Beatles, Elvis, MJ and Oasis are at all similar? As I think they are further apart than the artists in this thread

    No i don't think they are similar but I never saw that thread
  • SparklySwedeSparklySwede Posts: 1,112
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    I'm not a huge fan of either Madonna or Whitney, so my ranking would be..

    Abba>The Carpenters>Madonna>Whitney

    I really enjoy The Carpenters' music, yes it's cheesy and nothing all that special but Karen's voice is beautiful. I absolutely love Abba - it's not a guilty pleasure, I passed the point of caring if they're thought of as cheesy or not a long time ago. I just love their music.

    Madonna has some excellent material and I love songs from her from all different points of her career, but I wouldn't sit and listen to whole albums from her (except Evita, but that's not really her album). On the subject of Evita, one of my personal bugbears is people saying Madonna can't sing whereas if they listened to that they would see that yes she can, but her pop material doesn't always reflect that (and no, I'm not suggesting she could be on Broadway!).

    Whitney...I've never got her appeal. The song everyone loves from her seems to be I Will Always Love You, but I've always far preferred Dolly Parton's original version of that. It's just not my type of music, but I am not denying her talent at all. Just her music is not for me.
  • AlbacomAlbacom Posts: 34,578
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    The Carpenters were of their time. Had Karen survived it is difficult to imagine that they would have continued because tastes changed whereas their musical style didn't. They may well have become resident Caesar Palace artists and would have made a living on their undeniable superb back catalogue. Karen's voice was like silk. She was unique.

    ABBA - It is a myth to assume that Abba relied mainly on the female voices. On each album Bjorn takes lead in at least one song. Their music is safe yet instantly recognisable.

    Whitney Houston - Sadly her reckless lifestyle forfeited her status of potential legend right back in the 1990's. She had a great voice and her vocals were like crystal. But she was a controlled artist ultimately. Her songs were all written for her and she lost her vibe and her enthusiasm in her latter years.

    Madonna - The surprise about Madonna was that of all the artists who should have been the more reckless, the more destructive, it should have been Madonna! Yet, she remains level headed, hard working and passionate about what she does. She has never pretended to be a great singer or the best dancer but what you see is what you get. Most of her great songs are album tracks rather than singles and whilst people say "I only listen to her early stuff" you have to take into consideration that her "early stuff" only spanned a very short length of time. Would Erotica, Bedtime Stories or even Ray of Light be considered to be her early stuff because Ray of Light is now 17 years old! She has secured herself an incredibly loyal fanbase and her concerts still sell out every single time. Her forthcoming album is already guaranteed number 1 in 44 countries due to pre-orders and her music hasn't really changed drastically. She doesn't try and be modern and trendy, it's what her music is and always has been. For her to change her music style would be like Barbra Streisand suddenly doing hip hop.

    So, the winner is Madonna.
  • scrillascrilla Posts: 2,198
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    Well, in that company, it's obviousy Whitney. So far ahead on vocal ability, however just like Mariah Carey, I don't like that much of her catalogue.

    When I heard 'You Give Good Love' and her work with Material I thought she was extremely promising but it wasn't long until she was moving away from her R&B roots and going very pop, giving gifts like 'I Wanna Dance With Somebody' and I was out. Pretty much trying to ignore her chart presence from 1987 meant that I was missing some gems tucked away on her albums.

    It's laughable the way that people will sometimes criticise her vocals. They obviously never actually listen to her performances and have just decided how they *think* she sounds.

    The Carpenters, Abba and especially Madonna, I avoid like the plague. Madonna has been lucky, building such a career on a sliver of talent.
  • Bandit06Bandit06 Posts: 79
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    Who is better is purely personal preference. In terms of talent. I like them all & have music by them.
    Whitney - great voice but not a song writer of note.
    Carpenters - good voice, wrote a few of their own songs but again most songs written by others.
    Madonna - been lucky to have some good songs written for her & I would say her best work was at the beginning of her career into the 1990's. A good performer but can't compare with Whitney or Karen Carpenter vocally.
    ABBA - wrote thier own material, many some meaningful lyrics in there too. Wrote musicals too.

    In terms of 'talent' I would rank ABBA highest with Madonna last, in terms of vocal talent Whitney would be top
  • Whitehouse95Whitehouse95 Posts: 2,599
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    scrilla wrote: »
    Well, in that company, it's obviousy Whitney. So far ahead on vocal ability, however just like Mariah Carey, I don't like that much of her catalogue.

    When I heard 'You Give Good Love' and her work with Material I thought she was extremely promising but it wasn't long until she was moving away from her R&B roots and going very pop, giving gifts like 'I Wanna Dance With Somebody' and I was out. Pretty much trying to ignore her chart presence from 1987 meant that I was missing some gems tucked away on her albums.

    It's laughable the way that people will sometimes criticise her vocals. They obviously never actually listen to her performances and have just decided how they *think* she sounds.

    The Carpenters, Abba and especially Madonna, I avoid like the plague. Madonna has been lucky, building such a career on a sliver of talent.

    Unlike some of her contemporaries Madonna hasn't hit the self-destruct button, she's still successful and unlike Whitney is alive. That seems to be down to determination and strength of character rather than luck. Say what you like about Madonna but aside from the scandals she orchestrated herself, what controversies has has Madonna ever been involved in?
  • Rae_AmuryRae_Amury Posts: 588
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    Funny how people say that Madonnas best work was at the beginning of her career when she was mostly doing bubblegum pop songs at that time and that she was lucky to have songs written for her when in fact she always wrote or co-wrote all her albums (the albums considered her best were all written just by her and one co-writer). And if you compare her albums from her debut to each following release up untill Music or Confessions (after that it went downhill imo), you will see how much she has evolved and matured with each album as an artist. To say that Madonna is not talented just because she is not vocally gifted is unfair considering her songwriting, producing, performing skills and how creative she is (creativity is what makes an artist imo).

    It's ironic how people consider Whitney the most talented artist even though she relied only on her in-born magnificent voice and never wrote a song in her life. I'm not saying she had to when her voice alone was so amazing that she was able to sell such terrible cheesy songs with it. I just find it unfair, that's all.
  • mushymanrobmushymanrob Posts: 17,992
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    scrilla wrote: »
    Well, in that company, it's obviousy Whitney. So far ahead on vocal ability, however just like Mariah Carey, I don't like that much of her catalogue.

    When I heard 'You Give Good Love' and her work with Material I thought she was extremely promising but it wasn't long until she was moving away from her R&B roots and going very pop, giving gifts like 'I Wanna Dance With Somebody' and I was out. Pretty much trying to ignore her chart presence from 1987 meant that I was missing some gems tucked away on her albums.

    It's laughable the way that people will sometimes criticise her vocals. They obviously never actually listen to her performances and have just decided how they *think* she sounds.
    .

    .... on the other hand maybe we just dont like it. and we were asked for personal opinions not empirical facts! :p
  • Jim_McIntoshJim_McIntosh Posts: 5,866
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    In school grades, my liking of each is as follows....

    The Carpenters = B
    Abba = C-
    Madonna = E
    Whitney = F
  • scrillascrilla Posts: 2,198
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    .... on the other hand maybe we just dont like it. and we were asked for personal opinions not empirical facts! :p
    Surely you can only speak for one person i.e. yourself. I believe there are people who don't like Whitney Houston's music, barely listen to it and make inaccurate assumptions about how she sings on her performances based on women who have come after her and not actually her own output. That is my opinion. As for her being a better singer than the others, that is also my opinion.
  • scrillascrilla Posts: 2,198
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    Unlike some of her contemporaries Madonna hasn't hit the self-destruct button, she's still successful and unlike Whitney is alive. That seems to be down to determination and strength of character rather than luck. Say what you like about Madonna but aside from the scandals she orchestrated herself, what controversies has has Madonna ever been involved in?
    I was commenting on musical merits though, not personal lives. I would consider drug addiction and death to be extremely unfortunate circumstances and not merely controversies.
  • Gigi4Gigi4 Posts: 3,631
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    If you listen to some of Madonna's ballads, she actually has a very similiar tone vocally to Karen Carpenter. So to say Karen Carpenter is talented vocally and Madonna isn't sounds odd to me. A lot of it has to do with people's view of them as people.

    Whitney is a very acclaimed vocalist but I"ve never been fan of the belting style of singing. I prefer the softer more subtle style of Madonna and Karen Carpenter.
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