I can't see what the fuss is about. I agree with all that was said by Alan Brazil- this was a very selfish act, with little thought given to the family left behind or the person who found the body.
Yes, it's almost as if RW might have been suffering from the mental illness that is depression and unable to think rationally. Oh that's right, he was.
Richardcoulter
I am of the opinion that the guidelines have been breached, whilst others disagree. That's why I have referred the matter to an authoritive third party for an independent decision.
What guidelines do you feel have been breached.
We can discuss this until the cows come home, but it is essentially a matter for the regulator.
You haven't discussed what guidelines you feel have been breached.
I also think it's worth highlighting the seriousness of this subject matter.
We aren't discussing which flavour crisps taste the best, we are discussing something that has had a profound and life changing affect on many, many people regarding potentially life or death situations- literally.
How do you feel that Alan Brazils opinion, i.e having far more sympathy for the family left behind rather than the actual suicide victim could have a potentially life or death affect on a person in such a terrible predicament at the moment.
Being depressed is not necessarily the same has having depression anyway. It is a complicated illness that affects different people in different ways.
Unfortunately sometimes people say they have depression because they are told they have it. I have been living with depression for over 35 years now so know what depression is. When my brother told me he was told he had depression but didn't feel depressed I wasn't surprised.
He went to his doctor because he was feeling run down and wasn't sleeping well. This had been going on for about 2 months. He had an idea what the problem was. He was working double shifts as well as studying for a degree and had exams coming up. Basically he was getting run down. So he made an appointment with his GP just to make sure it wasn't something else.
The day before he saw the GP he got the sack from his job. He wasn't happy about it but rather than getting upset etc. he saw it as a chance to make changes. He was planning on leaving the job anyway, It was why he was doing various training courses and getting a degree.
So off he goes to see his GP and he explains the situation. Can't sleep properly. Been over doing it. work, training courses, degree etc. The GP said it sounds like you are exhausted. That's what my brother thought all was OK. Then just as the appointment was coming to an end my brother mentioned he was going to get rest as he got sacked yesterday. Immediately the diagnosis changed. His GP told him he was depressed. My brother said he didn't feel depressed, he was seeing it as a chance to start again. get some rest, concentrate on his degree. Next month he is going to Portugal for 2 weeks. He felt ok just run down. Despite this the GP told him he was depressed and issued him with anti-depressants.
We were brought up you don't question Doctors so he took the pills and started taking them as prescribed. Things changed. Now he was feeling like crap he had no problem sleeping. In fact he couldn't stay awake and needed to go and have naps during the day and would fall asleep watching TV. My brother didn't like it so went back to his GP again. He once again said that he didn't feel depressed and so forth and after taking quite a bit of persuasion the GP agreed that my brother could come off the anti-depressants but if things got bad he would go back on them. In reality my brother was going to stop taking them if the GP had agreed or not. he was just letting the GP know what was happening so he wouldn't assume that his patient was on medication when he wasn't.
Very quickly my brother started to feel better again. he didn't need his afternoon naps. He was feeling more energetic and so forth. The only problem he had was the boredom of not having anything to do during the day. A very common effect for someone that has worked and suddenly finds he has so much free time of their hands.
He has since then found another job. in fact changed jobs a few times. Got his degree, moved house and is getting on with his life fine. All without anti-depressants that he didn't need to be on.
The GP automatically diagnosed got sacked = he has depression. Yes, a person may be depressed at that moment but it doesn't mean they have depression. You have to have meet a criteria over many weeks/months to have depression. In life people have things that make them sad, unhappy and depressed. That is the way it goes. It doesn't mean you have depression. Most people on benefits do eventually end up with depression because their lives become so pointless and tedious. It's not just a way of "getting" benefits.
To diagnose my brother as having depression after one day's unemployment was ridiculous. Unfortunately I believe that too many people are being diagnosed as having depression too quickly and being put on pills. There is change happening slowly. It is being recognised that pills aren't helping a lot of people and counselling and talking therapies are more effective. I've had those and pills and the pills work better for me. When I tried coming off them I went into crisis and was almost sectioned for my own protection. it was back on the pills or you get taken into the psychiatric hospital. I'll be on pills for life. I know that. They don't work. I will never be happy and have a normal life but they keep me "ticking over" and allow me to "cope"
Reports about Robin Williams have said that he had been in a bad way for months. he didn't just wake up one day think I'm having a bad day today I'll kill myself and sod the family and friends and how it affects them.
Alan Brazil is entitled to his opinion. Whether it was necessary for him to express at that point when things were so fresh and raw is another thing. It will be interesting to see how many people get upset when Jimmy Carr and the like start doing jokes about Robin Williams on TV. Will there be calls for them to be banned? After all Brazil was expressing an opinion where as Carr and the like will be making jokes about the situation. Something tells me they will be exempt from what Brazil is getting because it's "a joke."
People will say "lighten up" and not understand the irony. People with real depression would love too, they just can't. Depression takes over your life whether you want it to or not.
Alan Brazil is entitled to his opinion. Whether it was necessary for him to express at that point when things were so fresh and raw is another thing. It will be interesting to see how many people get upset when Jimmy Carr and the like start doing jokes about Robin Williams on TV. Will there be calls for them to be banned? After all Brazil was expressing an opinion where as Carr and the like will be making jokes about the situation. Something tells me they will be exempt from what Brazil is getting because it's "a joke."
People will say "lighten up" and not understand the irony. People with real depression would love too, they just can't. Depression takes over your life whether you want it to or not.
As with most of these things,the celebrity gets a much easier time if they appear to be a Liberal Labour type. With musicians they get a much easier time if they are perceived to be critically cool.
It's always a double standard when a celebrity causes a "modern day" offence.
As with most of these things,the celebrity gets a much easier time if they appear to be a Liberal Labour type. With musicians they get a much easier time if they are perceived to be critically cool.
It's always a double standard when a celebrity causes a "modern day" offence.
Nice rant. The same hypocrisy goes with Tories regarding tax evasion I suppose? By the way what is a Liberal Labour type?
When someone with depression commits suicide they may often cause real and lasting pain for those that had been close to them and loved them, including inter alia, a sense of failure and betrayal. They may have solved their problems but at the expense of others. No doubt this is the selfish element Mr Brazil was referring to.
People here are justifying this by saying that someone with true depression just doesn't think like that (and may even believe that they would be releasing those close to them of a burden). I have never had deep depression so can only go on what others say about how you think when you are depressed.
When Mr Brazil says he feels sorry for those around Mr Williams due to his action I can certainly see where he is coming from and sympathise. That he feels no sympathy for Mr Williams probably comes from a lack of understanding of real depression - something Mr Brazil may have no personal experience of.
Those saying that Mr Brazil should be sacked are therefore, in my opinion, saying that he should lose his job because he made a comment on the radio about a serious subject that he is probably not an expert in. (As I get older I realise just little I, and no doubt everyone else, know about many many things.) I don't think that warrants the sack. If we all kept quiet on subjects we don't understand, even serious ones, the world would be a very quiet place, but also a place where ignorance isn't challenged.
no it isn't nonsense at all. Free speech doesn't exist 100%. For one thing, it can't - can you go around telling people such as your employer what you really think of them and win a wrongful dismissal claim ? And the Liberals and do gooders are stopping you from exercising this right on a daily basis on various things. When people can't even hang a St Georges Flag outside their house on certain days, that is not Free Speech in any shape or form.
I'm not particularly keen on Alan Brazil - for one thing I think he has copied the commentary style of Andy Gray - but surely someone who hosts a chat show [I don't listen but I presume that is what it is] has to go with the topic the caller wants to chat about ?
Why shouldn't he be? He has done absolutely nothing wrong. He gave his opinion, I don't agree with his opinion and probably most others don't either.
Either way he has done nothing wrong.
Internet keyboard warriors, pure and simple.
Alan Brazil is the latest fad for these self serving guardians of morality to complain about. Tomorrow it will be someone or something else. A female comedian or newsreader, a black man or woman, the news not being exactly how they want it blah blah blah.
It is pretty clear from this thread alone many have no real grasp as to what it is they are actually complaining about, just that they have a different opinion therefore something must be done about it..sack the guy. It is just another bandwagon to jump aboard, lets see how long this new found online compassion for sufferers of depression lasts shall we.
Maybe we could say those complaining have no sympathy for the family and friends left behind, after all that was the bulk of Mr Brazils opinion...but shhhh why let something like that get in the way of the chance to slate someone on the radio or TV in good old DS style.
These very people are the first to cry political correctness gone mad yet funnily enough are the first to demand the head of someone with a different opinion.
Alan Brazil is the latest fad for these self serving guardians of morality to complain about. Tomorrow it will be someone or something else. A female comedian or newsreader, a black man or woman, the news not being exactly how they want it blah blah blah.
It is pretty clear from this thread alone many have no real grasp as to what it is they are actually complaining about, just that they have a different opinion therefore something must be done about it..sack the guy. It is just another bandwagon to jump aboard, lets see how long this new found online compassion for sufferers of depression lasts shall we.
Maybe we could say those complaining have no sympathy for the family and friends left behind, after all that was the bulk of Mr Brazils opinion...but shhhh why let something like that get in the way of the chance to slate someone on the radio or TV in good old DS style.
These very people are the first to cry political correctness gone mad yet funnily enough are the first to demand the head of someone with a different opinion.
You`re repeating yourself. I picked the most similar one I could find - There are more:
The irony is quite a few names, here and in other threads, calling for the guy to be sacked are the first to cry PC gone mad when more women/ethnic people whatever are on TV and the likes. Yet as soon as someone says something THEY disapprove of out comes the demand that person be sacked for voicing that opinion.
As usual it is the PC gone mad crowd that are creating the PC gone mad climate they claim to dispise with their faux outrage.
As an individual he can have any views he wants , no matter how wrong they may be . As a broadcaster he does not have the right to air those views.
As a broadcaster and in the context of the show he hosts he has every right to air his views.
Why do you say he does not? Is it because you disagree with them or do you think no broadcaster should be allowed to air their personal views regardless of the context or format of programme?
And the Liberals and do gooders are stopping you from exercising this right on a daily basis on various things.
I think you will find it is the "liberals and do gooders" (your words) who won and have since defended the very thing you seem to be so passionate about. A free press, no detention without trial, political opposition, racial equality, gender equality, equal opportunities, an independent judiciary, the right to a fair trial, the right to a family life, the right to privacy, democratic elections, universal suffrage........
In terms of the discussion topic itself, my logic is this:
1. The views expressed by Alan Brazil are grossly offensive, ill-considered and lack any kind of dignity or respect.
2. The right to free speech is more important than the right not be offended, therefore he should not be sacked just for having made these remarks.
3. Calling for him to be sacked is a lazy rationale, he has the right to say what he wants and only he or his employer should have any influence over this employment status.
4. If you are offended by the comments, you should write to the advertisers who buy slots during his show and explain why you will not be buying their products whilst they continue to advertise and implicitly endorse the host's programme and his views. Radio stations respond to commercial pressures, like any other business.
5. If you are offended by the comments, you should stop listening to the programme.
As a broadcaster and in the context of the show he hosts he has every right to air his views.
Why do you say he does not? Is it because you disagree with them or do you think no broadcaster should be allowed to air their personal views regardless of the context or format of programme?
So you are saying he has the right to give his view on any subject in the news no matter how ill informed he may be . If he had a racist or homophobic view on a current News item , does he also have the right to air them.
When someone with depression commits suicide they may often cause real and lasting pain for those that had been close to them and loved them, including inter alia, a sense of failure and betrayal. They may have solved their problems but at the expense of others. No doubt this is the selfish element Mr Brazil was referring to.
People here are justifying this by saying that someone with true depression just doesn't think like that (and may even believe that they would be releasing those close to them of a burden). I have never had deep depression so can only go on what others say about how you think when you are depressed.
When Mr Brazil says he feels sorry for those around Mr Williams due to his action I can certainly see where he is coming from and sympathise. That he feels no sympathy for Mr Williams probably comes from a lack of understanding of real depression - something Mr Brazil may have no personal experience of.
Those saying that Mr Brazil should be sacked are therefore, in my opinion, saying that he should lose his job because he made a comment on the radio about a serious subject that he is probably not an expert in. (As I get older I realise just little I, and no doubt everyone else, know about many many things.) I don't think that warrants the sack. If we all kept quiet on subjects we don't understand, even serious ones, the world would be a very quiet place, but also a place where ignorance isn't challenged.
His timing was bad.
That's a very balanced understanding of it I think. I don't think he should be sacked. He should have thought "I know nothing about this so I should probably not opine about it and just play it safe despite what I might feel" but he has to think fast in real time on the air and his viewpoint isn't unique by any means. Anyone confessing their depression problems will have faced this viewpoint at some juncture. Depression is one of those things where the sufferer gets the blame in some people's minds.
Ignorance isn't as bad as maliciousness and we are all ignorant to some degree in different subjects at different times. I feel as though we are expecting too much of the guy. The football world isn't renowned for it's forward-thinking, modern type of men. I know that's a generalisation but it's still a bit of a macho culture (as a whole) and this is what AB has come from.
It's not as if anyone actually goes to Alan Brazil when they are holding some conference of mental health because he's some sort of expert so why should anyone care what some ex-footballer thinks about mental health? If he was Minister Of Health or president of a mental health charity then his views would be important. As it is his views on mental health carry as much weight as my postman's.
I would hope the fallout from this will make him reflect and hopefully gain a better understanding of the issue and apologise in time but I don't think he owes anyone that. If he was to apologise it should be genuine and not a forced apology.
Lots of people have personal views I don't much care for but that's life. The only issue really is whether his employers are happy for him to air such views through their media. My guess is that they feel he was just talking a little bit ignorantly but honestly and he meant no malice. If the heat gets turned up on talksport then I don't doubt he'll be forced to leave but I'd personally prefer a culture where minority viewpoints are challenged rather than silenced. I hate when people try ever so hard to say and do the right things rather than just do those things naturally. It's a falseness that we can do without.
Comments
Yes, it's almost as if RW might have been suffering from the mental illness that is depression and unable to think rationally. Oh that's right, he was.
Being racist and inciting racial hatred are two different things, one is illegal and one isn't.
What guidelines do you feel have been breached.
You haven't discussed what guidelines you feel have been breached.
How do you feel that Alan Brazils opinion, i.e having far more sympathy for the family left behind rather than the actual suicide victim could have a potentially life or death affect on a person in such a terrible predicament at the moment.
And so their should be.
Unfortunately sometimes people say they have depression because they are told they have it. I have been living with depression for over 35 years now so know what depression is. When my brother told me he was told he had depression but didn't feel depressed I wasn't surprised.
He went to his doctor because he was feeling run down and wasn't sleeping well. This had been going on for about 2 months. He had an idea what the problem was. He was working double shifts as well as studying for a degree and had exams coming up. Basically he was getting run down. So he made an appointment with his GP just to make sure it wasn't something else.
The day before he saw the GP he got the sack from his job. He wasn't happy about it but rather than getting upset etc. he saw it as a chance to make changes. He was planning on leaving the job anyway, It was why he was doing various training courses and getting a degree.
So off he goes to see his GP and he explains the situation. Can't sleep properly. Been over doing it. work, training courses, degree etc. The GP said it sounds like you are exhausted. That's what my brother thought all was OK. Then just as the appointment was coming to an end my brother mentioned he was going to get rest as he got sacked yesterday. Immediately the diagnosis changed. His GP told him he was depressed. My brother said he didn't feel depressed, he was seeing it as a chance to start again. get some rest, concentrate on his degree. Next month he is going to Portugal for 2 weeks. He felt ok just run down. Despite this the GP told him he was depressed and issued him with anti-depressants.
We were brought up you don't question Doctors so he took the pills and started taking them as prescribed. Things changed. Now he was feeling like crap he had no problem sleeping. In fact he couldn't stay awake and needed to go and have naps during the day and would fall asleep watching TV. My brother didn't like it so went back to his GP again. He once again said that he didn't feel depressed and so forth and after taking quite a bit of persuasion the GP agreed that my brother could come off the anti-depressants but if things got bad he would go back on them. In reality my brother was going to stop taking them if the GP had agreed or not. he was just letting the GP know what was happening so he wouldn't assume that his patient was on medication when he wasn't.
Very quickly my brother started to feel better again. he didn't need his afternoon naps. He was feeling more energetic and so forth. The only problem he had was the boredom of not having anything to do during the day. A very common effect for someone that has worked and suddenly finds he has so much free time of their hands.
He has since then found another job. in fact changed jobs a few times. Got his degree, moved house and is getting on with his life fine. All without anti-depressants that he didn't need to be on.
The GP automatically diagnosed got sacked = he has depression. Yes, a person may be depressed at that moment but it doesn't mean they have depression. You have to have meet a criteria over many weeks/months to have depression. In life people have things that make them sad, unhappy and depressed. That is the way it goes. It doesn't mean you have depression. Most people on benefits do eventually end up with depression because their lives become so pointless and tedious. It's not just a way of "getting" benefits.
To diagnose my brother as having depression after one day's unemployment was ridiculous. Unfortunately I believe that too many people are being diagnosed as having depression too quickly and being put on pills. There is change happening slowly. It is being recognised that pills aren't helping a lot of people and counselling and talking therapies are more effective. I've had those and pills and the pills work better for me. When I tried coming off them I went into crisis and was almost sectioned for my own protection. it was back on the pills or you get taken into the psychiatric hospital. I'll be on pills for life. I know that. They don't work. I will never be happy and have a normal life but they keep me "ticking over" and allow me to "cope"
Reports about Robin Williams have said that he had been in a bad way for months. he didn't just wake up one day think I'm having a bad day today I'll kill myself and sod the family and friends and how it affects them.
Alan Brazil is entitled to his opinion. Whether it was necessary for him to express at that point when things were so fresh and raw is another thing. It will be interesting to see how many people get upset when Jimmy Carr and the like start doing jokes about Robin Williams on TV. Will there be calls for them to be banned? After all Brazil was expressing an opinion where as Carr and the like will be making jokes about the situation. Something tells me they will be exempt from what Brazil is getting because it's "a joke."
People will say "lighten up" and not understand the irony. People with real depression would love too, they just can't. Depression takes over your life whether you want it to or not.
As with most of these things,the celebrity gets a much easier time if they appear to be a Liberal Labour type. With musicians they get a much easier time if they are perceived to be critically cool.
It's always a double standard when a celebrity causes a "modern day" offence.
Rumour has it drinks heavily, bragging about it on air and even appearing to be drunk on occasion.
Talkshite keep him employed because if they didn't, he'd probably drink himself to death.
For anyone who needs to know the kind of intellect this guy operates with, just google "Alan Brazil/Bob Monkhouse"
Why shouldn't he be? He has done absolutely nothing wrong. He gave his opinion, I don't agree with his opinion and probably most others don't either.
Either way he has done nothing wrong.
People here are justifying this by saying that someone with true depression just doesn't think like that (and may even believe that they would be releasing those close to them of a burden). I have never had deep depression so can only go on what others say about how you think when you are depressed.
When Mr Brazil says he feels sorry for those around Mr Williams due to his action I can certainly see where he is coming from and sympathise. That he feels no sympathy for Mr Williams probably comes from a lack of understanding of real depression - something Mr Brazil may have no personal experience of.
Those saying that Mr Brazil should be sacked are therefore, in my opinion, saying that he should lose his job because he made a comment on the radio about a serious subject that he is probably not an expert in. (As I get older I realise just little I, and no doubt everyone else, know about many many things.) I don't think that warrants the sack. If we all kept quiet on subjects we don't understand, even serious ones, the world would be a very quiet place, but also a place where ignorance isn't challenged.
His timing was bad.
no it isn't nonsense at all. Free speech doesn't exist 100%. For one thing, it can't - can you go around telling people such as your employer what you really think of them and win a wrongful dismissal claim ? And the Liberals and do gooders are stopping you from exercising this right on a daily basis on various things. When people can't even hang a St Georges Flag outside their house on certain days, that is not Free Speech in any shape or form.
I'm not particularly keen on Alan Brazil - for one thing I think he has copied the commentary style of Andy Gray - but surely someone who hosts a chat show [I don't listen but I presume that is what it is] has to go with the topic the caller wants to chat about ?
Internet keyboard warriors, pure and simple.
Alan Brazil is the latest fad for these self serving guardians of morality to complain about. Tomorrow it will be someone or something else. A female comedian or newsreader, a black man or woman, the news not being exactly how they want it blah blah blah.
It is pretty clear from this thread alone many have no real grasp as to what it is they are actually complaining about, just that they have a different opinion therefore something must be done about it..sack the guy. It is just another bandwagon to jump aboard, lets see how long this new found online compassion for sufferers of depression lasts shall we.
Maybe we could say those complaining have no sympathy for the family and friends left behind, after all that was the bulk of Mr Brazils opinion...but shhhh why let something like that get in the way of the chance to slate someone on the radio or TV in good old DS style.
These very people are the first to cry political correctness gone mad yet funnily enough are the first to demand the head of someone with a different opinion.
You`re repeating yourself. I picked the most similar one I could find - There are more:
As a broadcaster and in the context of the show he hosts he has every right to air his views.
Why do you say he does not? Is it because you disagree with them or do you think no broadcaster should be allowed to air their personal views regardless of the context or format of programme?
I think you will find it is the "liberals and do gooders" (your words) who won and have since defended the very thing you seem to be so passionate about. A free press, no detention without trial, political opposition, racial equality, gender equality, equal opportunities, an independent judiciary, the right to a fair trial, the right to a family life, the right to privacy, democratic elections, universal suffrage........
Yeah, that Liberalism's a bitch isn't it?
1. The views expressed by Alan Brazil are grossly offensive, ill-considered and lack any kind of dignity or respect.
2. The right to free speech is more important than the right not be offended, therefore he should not be sacked just for having made these remarks.
3. Calling for him to be sacked is a lazy rationale, he has the right to say what he wants and only he or his employer should have any influence over this employment status.
4. If you are offended by the comments, you should write to the advertisers who buy slots during his show and explain why you will not be buying their products whilst they continue to advertise and implicitly endorse the host's programme and his views. Radio stations respond to commercial pressures, like any other business.
5. If you are offended by the comments, you should stop listening to the programme.
So you are saying he has the right to give his view on any subject in the news no matter how ill informed he may be . If he had a racist or homophobic view on a current News item , does he also have the right to air them.
That's a very balanced understanding of it I think. I don't think he should be sacked. He should have thought "I know nothing about this so I should probably not opine about it and just play it safe despite what I might feel" but he has to think fast in real time on the air and his viewpoint isn't unique by any means. Anyone confessing their depression problems will have faced this viewpoint at some juncture. Depression is one of those things where the sufferer gets the blame in some people's minds.
Ignorance isn't as bad as maliciousness and we are all ignorant to some degree in different subjects at different times. I feel as though we are expecting too much of the guy. The football world isn't renowned for it's forward-thinking, modern type of men. I know that's a generalisation but it's still a bit of a macho culture (as a whole) and this is what AB has come from.
It's not as if anyone actually goes to Alan Brazil when they are holding some conference of mental health because he's some sort of expert so why should anyone care what some ex-footballer thinks about mental health? If he was Minister Of Health or president of a mental health charity then his views would be important. As it is his views on mental health carry as much weight as my postman's.
I would hope the fallout from this will make him reflect and hopefully gain a better understanding of the issue and apologise in time but I don't think he owes anyone that. If he was to apologise it should be genuine and not a forced apology.
Lots of people have personal views I don't much care for but that's life. The only issue really is whether his employers are happy for him to air such views through their media. My guess is that they feel he was just talking a little bit ignorantly but honestly and he meant no malice. If the heat gets turned up on talksport then I don't doubt he'll be forced to leave but I'd personally prefer a culture where minority viewpoints are challenged rather than silenced. I hate when people try ever so hard to say and do the right things rather than just do those things naturally. It's a falseness that we can do without.