Doc Martin (Part 15 — Spoilers)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 123
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    BodminDM wrote: »
    Thanks a lot!

    Welcome
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 330
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    She sets L up with "I'm sure Martin told you all about me" What was L suppose to say? "Oh yes, yes" "Don't lie dear, if you must do it with conviction" Gotcha

    Yeah, she got Louisa because she didn't stick to the truth. Maybe that is also a problem between DM and LG. No Ellingham, not even Joan, would have hesitated a second to say "Never heard of you."
    Not Louisa. Maybe it is one of her ways to apologize for Martin. In my opinion, she should urgently stop doing this. She isn't happy about covering up for him, and he is irritated when she does it, because it shows him she cannot accept him as he is.
    I'm with Ruth on that one.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 330
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    And, Aunt Ruth picked up that responsibility almost immediately, and in her hug of DM in his surgery after he corrected her mistaken misdiagnosis, we see that inside Aunt Ruth is the same need for love and connection inside DM. That hug for me was one of the sweetest things ever seen in all the DM episodes. Two seriously emotionally damaged people still being able to love, still wanting love, and able for just that one moment to express it in a sweet way. From then on, I was cheering for Aunt Ruth.

    To be honest, I found this hug a bit awkward. It didn't really ring true to me, also the way it was acted.
    Martin's reaction to that hug was also completely different to AJ's attempts to hug him. AR hugging him was obviously a strange experience, maybe a first. He looks utterly shocked and starts babbling about the smell in the house because of the breast-feeding.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 330
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    dcdmfan wrote: »
    Maybe she is a bit territorial in that she wants what's best for Martin and she feels that is in London?

    My take is that AR is mainly interested in DM's professional development. I see her as someone who put her priorities on her professional life. The way she analyses her "semi-sexual encounters" (what is that exactly - either it was or it wasn't) lead me to believe that her heart never was really in any of her relationships. Maybe she made those 'experiments' out of curiosity.
    I felt that she didn't mind Louisa, but her main goal was to get DM back into surgery. If Louisa then goes with him, fine - their funeral, but she deduced correctly that Louisa would never like it there.
    To her horror DM drew the "false" conclusion in promising to stay.
    Regarding her view of children, I think they are unknown territory to her. She quotes DM's father quite often, and we all know he's not the best reference. In her job she wouldn't have encountered many family issues. There were other problems (like eating cats:eek:). I think for her children are those objects being in the way for a career and making too much noise (she says herself whe don't mind children if they are not whining).
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    NewPark wrote: »
    I agree, she is somewhat hard to figure. My take on her is that she is presented often as a contrast to Louisa. She doesn't want anything to do with babies; Louisa is maternal. She is all neatly tailored, Louisa's style, whatever it is, is not tailored (except once with Holly when she wore a blazer). She is sophisticated and an urbanite -- Louisa is definitely not an urbanite and while not naive, sophisticated is not a word that comes to mind to describe her. She is pessimistic and somewhat cynical, Louisa isn't. She thinks people can't change (she's been working too long at Broadmoore, I think), Louisa has faith that they can. She likes Louisa well enough, but I don't think she can really see her and Martin together. The last scenes at the Castle point up this contrast very strongly -- Louisa is "wise" and has the right answers from her heart, while Ruth is educated and rational, and has the wrong answers. (I think we can call that a trope.)

    Some of the fanfiction has a pretty clear picture of Aunt Ruth as very definitely unfriendly to Louisa, especially once she gets the drift that Martin is staying in Portwenn for her.


    What a great collection of AR/LG opposites, NewPark. I hadn't conceptualized so many of them, but you really brought them all out into the open.
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    BodminDM wrote: »
    I completely agree. I also found that scene a bit awkward. I also didn't expect any big emotions and I would have found a hug or so maybe a tad too much. But silently putting her hand on his shoulder or covering his hand with hers or something like that would have been right.
    I think it shows that Louisa still doesn't know how to treat him and is on eggshells. Can you imagine Louisa not giving comfort to any other villager in Portwenn? No, I think just the father of her child won't get any comfort.
    But then again, Louisa is always very much on the receiving end of the relationship. I am not sure that she has accepted that Martin needs help sometimes, too. She is most drawn to him when he is her hero. But even heros have to have their wounds from the battlefields cared for. I haven't got the feeling in the series so far that Louisa can support Martin.
    I think the little pause before he touches James is telling. Maybe he waits for her reaction and if there isn't any, he gets the comfort he needs from someone who cannot deny him this need.


    Well written, BodminDM. I agree with what you wrote above.
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    BodminDM wrote: »
    To be honest, I found this hug a bit awkward. It didn't really ring true to me, also the way it was acted.
    Martin's reaction to that hug was also completely different to AJ's attempts to hug him. AR hugging him was obviously a strange experience, maybe a first. He looks utterly shocked and starts babbling about the smell in the house because of the breast-feeding.

    Probably all Ellingham to Ellingham hugs are awkward. DM was surprised by AR, and no doubt AR was surprised by AR. That she wanted to live, we see in her immense relief and her sincere gratitude to her GP nephew; that she needed to connect physically surprised them both, but there is a welcoming look from DM. His immediate release and clinical comment is by now no surprise; he always lapses into clinical/medical speak when emotions come to the fro.

    But, they both had lost AJ, and were staid and stolid at the funeral. I like to think that hug was also related to them now being together, alone in the world, essentially, without AJ, and without Christopher, whom they both pretty much despise. That one little hug seemed to bring in a much deeper connection pretty quickly between them.
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    Okay, just watched S4E8 finale again.

    1. Is it really possible that Mrs. Tishell had NEVER been to London as she tells DM? Are there people in England (and perhaps even Britain) who spend 59 or so years in the tiny country and never visit London? It seems unimaginable to me and Biff. One wonders where she went to school for her pharmacy degree.

    2. Since the shows are generally so well written, I found this plot lapse too difficult to really believe in:
    a. DM does not turn his phone off although it is closed up flat and put in his pocket. Yet, Pauline and everyone at the harbor can fully hear everything he says.
    b. LG does not know the nearest pub from where their at past the quarry, even though she was born and raised in PW and has driven to Truro G-d knows how many times, and has probably been to every pub in the area G-d knows how many times, since they are only about 20 minutes outside PW (halfway to Truro she says). Thus he had to call Pauline and then leave his closed and in his pocket phone still on.

    I think those are two of the most graphically obvious plot lapses, or even more specifically forced writing ideas, nearly unbelievable, and used just to set up everyone knowing what is going on with DM and LG as it plays out, in the whole series.

    Any other forced writing or plot lapse scenes people remember S1-4?

    Not that I'm complaining, mind you, just first of all noticing this minor flaw. The episode of course as a whole is really great. I just love it! :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 33
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    BodminDM wrote: »
    Yeah, she got Louisa because she didn't stick to the truth. Maybe that is also a problem between DM and LG. No Ellingham, not even Joan, would have hesitated a second to say "Never heard of you."
    Not Louisa. Maybe it is one of her ways to apologize for Martin. In my opinion, she should urgently stop doing this. She isn't happy about covering up for him, and he is irritated when she does it, because it shows him she cannot accept him as he is.
    I'm with Ruth on that one.

    Oh, it's ok for Ruth to lie but not for Louisa? That's the gotcha part - she sets L up with a lie. You are right L needs to stop covering for M.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »

    And, Aunt Ruth picked up that responsibility almost immediately, and in her hug of DM in his surgery after he corrected her mistaken misdiagnosis, we see that inside Aunt Ruth is the same need for love and connection inside DM. That hug for me was one of the sweetest things ever seen in all the DM episodes. Two seriously emotionally damaged people still being able to love, still wanting love, and able for just that one moment to express it in a sweet way. From then on, I was cheering for Aunt Ruth.
    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Probably all Ellingham to Ellingham hugs are awkward. DM was surprised by AR, and no doubt AR was surprised by AR. That she wanted to live, we see in her immense relief and her sincere gratitude to her GP nephew; that she needed to connect physically surprised them both, but there is a welcoming look from DM. His immediate release and clinical comment is by now no surprise; he always lapses into clinical/medical speak when emotions come to the fro.

    But, they both had lost AJ, and were staid and stolid at the funeral. I like to think that hug was also related to them now being together, alone in the world, essentially, without AJ, and without Christopher, whom they both pretty much despise. That one little hug seemed to bring in a much deeper connection pretty quickly between them.

    I really liked the AR/DM hug and I thought it was realistic and believable on both sides. A bit of a shock for them both. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Okay, just watched S4E8 finale again.

    1. Is it really possible that Mrs. Tishell had NEVER been to London as she tells DM? Are there people in England (and perhaps even Britain) who spend 59 or so years in the tiny country and never visit London? It seems unimaginable to me and Biff. One wonders where she went to school for her pharmacy degree.

    Most definitely.

    Someone was recently given an award for something he did in the war and he had to go to London to collect it. He hadn't been to London since the war (1945). He only lived in Cornwall (about 4 hr or so drive/train away).

    I drive for 14 hours to see my mother in law three or four times a year or more. But I guess it is what you are used to.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Interesting, Larablair. I am a decided introvert myself, always have been.

    But, if the only person in the world who ever loved me, and whom I loved, suddenly died, and my partner was standing a foot or two away, with whom I had had sex and made a beautiful baby, and with whom I was going to spend the night, yeah, I'd want him to sit down next to me, and touch me in SOME kind and not extravagant way, anything that let me know he was there for me, in the way I needed him to be.

    So, I don't think we can make specific stereotypes about which reaction is the best reaction for any type of person, introvert or extrovert or whomever. There are always human individualities and quirks even within their general personality traits.
    BodminDM wrote: »
    I completely agree. I also found that scene a bit awkward. I also didn't expect any big emotions and I would have found a hug or so maybe a tad too much. But silently putting her hand on his shoulder or covering his hand with hers or something like that would have been right.
    I think it shows that Louisa still doesn't know how to treat him and is on eggshells. Can you imagine Louisa not giving comfort to any other villager in Portwenn? No, I think just the father of her child won't get any comfort.
    But then again, Louisa is always very much on the receiving end of the relationship. I am not sure that she has accepted that Martin needs help sometimes, too. She is most drawn to him when he is her hero. But even heros have to have their wounds from the battlefields cared for. I haven't got the feeling in the series so far that Louisa can support Martin.
    I think the little pause before he touches James is telling. Maybe he waits for her reaction and if there isn't any, he gets the comfort he needs from someone who cannot deny him this need.

    Welcome aboard BodminDM!

    I am not sure how I feel about this scene. It worked pretty well and although I don't think DM did wait for LG's reaction I think she could possibly have touched his shoulder and still been within character.

    Not sure. :rolleyes:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Her belief no one can change is an odd statement from a psychologist/psychiatrist (can't recall which one she is) who works to change people all the time; that's her career!

    I hope they solidify her character regarding DM and LG in S6, and keep her viewpoint consistent and steady.

    AR's a psychiatrist because she says to DM "you're not the only Dr in the room". :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    BodminDM wrote: »
    My take is that AR is mainly interested in DM's professional development. I see her as someone who put her priorities on her professional life. The way she analyses her "semi-sexual encounters" (what is that exactly - either it was or it wasn't).

    Quasi-sexual is anything that is not full intercourse to completion. Can be just fooling around even with friends (not necessarily partners) of the same sex and can be at any age and can be just implied.

    When I first heard it from AR I thought she might have suffered some sort of child molestation but that was just an impression I got and probably was totally off base.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    Okay, just watched S4E8 finale again.

    2. Since the shows are generally so well written, I found this plot lapse too difficult to really believe in:
    a. DM does not turn his phone off although it is closed up flat and put in his pocket. Yet, Pauline and everyone at the harbor can fully hear everything he says.

    I think those are two of the most graphically obvious plot lapses, or even more specifically forced writing ideas, nearly unbelievable, and used just to set up everyone knowing what is going on with DM and LG as it plays out, in the whole series.

    Any other forced writing or plot lapse scenes people remember S1-4?

    Not that I'm complaining, mind you, just first of all noticing this minor flaw. The episode of course as a whole is really great. I just love it! :)

    Belief had to be even further suspended by the fact that LG couldn't get reception in the same area when DM tried to contact her to find out where she was. :rolleyes:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    S5 e1
    I found LG's disorganisation regarding the cot and nappies etc believable in this episode. The baby arrived 2 weeks early and she had the cot it just wasn't assembled.

    I loved the fact her tiredness re the milk and falling asleep with JH on her lap was believable. I don't think her disorganisation regarding her job, later in the series, is so believable.

    Someone else mentioned the lovely scene where DM and LG are talking about the new Dr Dibbs. Such a normal scene. Why can't they talk more? (Oh yeah there wold be no show if they did!!) :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

    Also thought they handled the announcement of AJ death really well. JP is an ijiot but he did it really well.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    s5 e2
    Love Mrs T's hat at the funeral. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,389
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    I think the over-sharing thing is a common theme with both AR and DM, the only thing different is the words they are saying. AR was uncomfortable, maybe, in the situation, so she began to talk about her personal life. When DM is uncomfortable in a situation, he over-shares medical information and knowledge. Neither one is necessarily appropriate to the situation.

    Spot on. I'd never thought of it that way before. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 330
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    Belief had to be even further suspended by the fact that LG couldn't get reception in the same area when DM tried to contact her to find out where she was. :rolleyes:

    Sorry, I have to disagree here. I visited Cornwall together with someone else. We both had mobiles, but different providers. When my mobile still worked fine, there was no reception for my mate's mobile at all.
    So for me it does make sense.
    However, there are areas in Britain when having a mobile doesn't make much sense at all.:)
  • mmDerdekeammDerdekea Posts: 1,719
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    cc.cookie wrote: »
    AR's a psychiatrist because she says to DM "you're not the only Dr in the room". :)

    Well, she could have a PhD in psychology, too.
  • NewParkNewPark Posts: 3,537
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    someone posted on Doc Martin FB page that they spoke with Joe Absolom yesterday (?) in Port Isaac, who said he is filming "miles away" tomorrow, and in 3 days in Tintagel -- the post-er thought he said in a church.

    The church
    for the alleged wedding
    is in Altarun, which I don't think is Tintagel. So don't know quite what to make of this message, considering also that stuff gets lost in translation as in from JA to the post-er to the FB page.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 29
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    mmDerdekea wrote: »
    DM's relationship with Aunt Ruth is interesting in the 5th series. Apparently, I think we can infer that when he was a child, it was AJ alone who gave him comfort and love and that he had a very distant or even non-relationship with Aunt Ruth. They had one phone call a year, at Christmas, right?

    I get the feeling Ruth was part of DM’s childhood because she lived in London too. She knew he wouldn’t smile in the photos, that he would be interested in his grandfather’s clock, that he broke grandfather’s pocket watch, and that he had a better time in school than he ever did at home. Martin must have had a special place as the only son, nephew and grandson in a well to do family. Either the abuse was hidden or it was not talked about.

    When DM sees AR showing up for the funeral, their innate awkwardness and distance is clear. But, then, I guess both of them have grown up, and perhaps being thrust together as they were, they much more naturally come together in a rather quick period of time.

    Both had over bearing fathers and distant mothers and both are scientists. Ruth knows she is socially awkward but DM does not. (I thought it interesting that Edith made a reference to "social retardation" not hemophobia re Dr. Milligan's treatise).
    Ruth is more mature and not as traumaitzed as Martin that we know of, so her social skills are a little better - although she kind of sounds like Martin did when he was being "congenial" to Horrid Holly :)
    One wonders if AJ left her home to AR to get her out of her solo career mindset, and to bring her into the "family" of Port Wenn, and take over her job of supporting, counseling, and perhaps even loving Martin. That is, even though AJ became an unpleasant woman in some of the later episodes, she still loved Martin and she left her home to her sister, so her sister could continue to be the family that DM always craved and needed.

    Oh, that's interesting, And if Martin did head off to London, that would leave Ruth to be the family connection to the newest little Ellingham.

    I think Ruth getting the farm was the right. Martin did not want Joan to know that he had bought her brother out. Martin buying of his father's share not only chased those snakes out of the barnyard so to speak, but also neutralized some of their venom. Margaret was enjoying taking Joan down as well as her husband by forcing her to have to sell the farm, which Joan clearly loved. Martin didn't come up with the plan until after his mother's non-goodbye. That sent him over the edge. He was done with her. Joan was the one who loved him. She was the one he went to after his fall from grace. Joan was family.
    (I always wondered why DM had to sell his flat. I would think he would have a pile of money being a top surgeon with no family to spend it on.) (Sorry for the tangent)
    And, Aunt Ruth picked up that responsibility almost immediately, and in her hug of DM in his surgery after he corrected her mistaken misdiagnosis, we see that inside Aunt Ruth is the same need for love and connection inside DM. That hug for me was one of the sweetest things ever seen in all the DM episodes. Two seriously emotionally damaged people still being able to love, still wanting love, and able for just that one moment to express it in a sweet way. From then on, I was cheering for Aunt Ruth.

    Yes, I enjoyed that scene too.I think there was even a little bedside manner sneaking out with his gentle offer if there was anything he could do to help. the hug was spontaneous and DM held her too.
    I like that he is able to tease her - “you have chickens that need feeding?” and “you know there are vegetables grow on your farm?” I sense that DM is more at ease with Ruth than Joan even though he needed a Joan in his life.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 29
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    marchrand wrote: »
    Al, on the other hand, I wonder if there will be more to this in S6. I'll leave the Al and Aunt Ruth relationship thoughts to the rest of you.

    I think Ruth sees Al as a capable, smart young man whose life is being suffocated by a somewhat overbearing, dependent father. When they were plumbers, Al seemed to be doing all the work. Martin saw this too.
    I think Ruth is giving him some breathing room and some finances of his own to work with. Unfortunately Bert seems to be winning. At least she didn't give up on him.
  • SusieSagitariusSusieSagitarius Posts: 1,250
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    BodminDM wrote: »
    Hello,

    I was follwing DigitalSpy for years, but this question finally made me register. I had a bit of a hassle to be able to post after registration. So here's my belated answer, although I'm sure it'll be nothing like that.

    Evening shot of the Doc's surgery. Everything's dark except for the bedroom window. We just see the outside of the cottage.
    We hear Louisa prattle on about the events of the day. After a while we hear her say "What?", the way she often does.
    A deep husky voice whispers "Louisa."
    Then there's a pause.
    "Martin?"
    Another pause.
    Then we hear Louisa giggle. A bed sqeaks.
    Then we hear a mobile ring. DM groans. Louisa urgently whispers: "Ignore it. Ignore it just for once!"
    A short pause. Then an exasperated "I can't. Sorry." From the Doc. Then he bellows really annoyed "ELLINGHAM!"
    Just that moment, James starts to bawl. Louisa groans.

    Hello there and much welcome. Glad you made it through registration.

    I've recorded your prediction and thank you! It'll be fun to see if any of us even come close!!:)
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