It is desperately sad that there are still so many women / families who live this way. Of course what she did was appalling but she was also a victim of a deprived lifestyle that most viewers would not have experienced. I hope that she can get help that enables her to make more of her life than just be defined by this dreadful event.
It is far too easy to judge those stuck in the world depicted in this drama but, without ever living such a life, we can't imagine the desperation felt, despite it being virtually on our doorsteps.
I wouldn't attach "desperation" to the life lead by Matthews & women like her, I would however use that term to apply to poor people living in the UK during the Victorian era or present day people living somewhere like parts of Syria.
I wouldn't attach "desperation" to the life lead by Matthews & women like her, I would however use that term to apply to poor people living in the UK during the Victorian era or present day people living somewhere like parts of Syria.
Then we will have to agree to differ. I have certainly seen desperation from those stuck in a cycle of preventable pregnancies, lack of prospects or aspirations, endless repetition of abusive relationships and, although some may be the result of bad choices, the desperation of surviving from week to week.
I, and most likely you, are very fortunate that we don't have to struggle on a daily basis.
Then we will have to agree to differ. I have certainly seen desperation from those stuck in a cycle of preventable pregnancies, lack of prospects or aspirations, endless repetition of abusive relationships and, although some may be the result of bad choices, the desperation of surviving from week to week.
I, and most likely you, are very fortunate that we don't have to struggle on a daily basis.
Oh believe me, I do struggle on a daily basis! Due to illness I cannot work (and have to put up with even members of my own family telling me I'm a lazy cheat), I've already been through an appeal against removal of benefits which took 18 months to resolve & the spectre of repetition hangs over me; I cannot get social housing & obviously can't afford to buy - so I end up in the crap end of the private rental sector. Where I differ to women like KM is that I have never felt the need to simply accept any man that came along due to that being more appealing than being single, hence I waited till I was 37 (7 years ago) to get involved in a proper relationship with a man & he is my perfect match, furthermore I know full well that like KM I am incapable of looking after a child properly, hence the only time I got pregnant (at 39) I had an abortion, having had an abortion & now being menopausal it is very sad because I never got to be a mother & although I'm not mad keen on kids it's still a difficult position to be in.
Oh believe me, I do struggle on a daily basis! Due to illness I cannot work (and have to put up with even members of my own family telling me I'm a lazy cheat), I've already been through an appeal against removal of benefits which took 18 months to resolve & the spectre of repetition hangs over me; I cannot get social housing & obviously can't afford to buy - so I end up in the crap end of the private rental sector. Where I differ to women like KM is that I have never felt the need to simply accept any man that came along due to that being more appealing than being single, hence I waited till I was 37 (7 years ago) to get involved in a proper relationship with a man & he is my perfect match, furthermore I know full well that like KM I am incapable of looking after a child properly, hence the only time I got pregnant (at 39) I had an abortion, having had an abortion & now being menopausal it is very sad because I never got to be a mother & although I'm not mad keen on kids it's still a difficult position to be in.
I am sorry to hear that you have had to deal with so many struggles throughout your life and the difficulty of coming to terms with the fact that, rather than bring children into a non ideal situation, that you made the decision selflessly to forego being a mother. You do sound as if you have dealt with them far better than many would have done. I suspect that you are far more intelligent and capable than KM and thus equipped better to find solutions.
The problem with the likes of KM, and what leaves them in such a "desperate" situation, is that they lack the education, support network and ability to make wise decisions (which is hard for all of us).
I am sorry to hear that you have had to deal with so many struggles throughout your life and the difficulty of coming to terms with the fact that, rather than bring children into a non ideal situation, that you made the decision selflessly to forego being a mother. You do sound as if you have dealt with them far better than many would have done. I suspect that you are far more intelligent and capable than KM and thus equipped better to find solutions.
The problem with the likes of KM, and what leaves them in such a "desperate" situation, is that they lack the education, support network and ability to make wise decisions (which is hard for all of us).
Thank you. It has been raised in this thread many times that KM has a low IQ, mine is quite high although I'm not MENSA material.
Thank you. It has been raised in this thread many times that KM has a low IQ, mine is quite high although I'm not MENSA material.
I would also imagine that in addition to your higher IQ, which makes a huge difference as to what you are capable of achieving, that there is also a major disparity in your emotional intelligence to that of KM. The bad decisions and situations that she found herself in are as much down to her low emotional intelligence and inability to make wise judgements as her low intellect.
Well you obviously don't need it so why don't you give up your tenancy and rent privately or buy?
Not that I need to explain myself to you or anyone else, as you have no idea of how I came to drop from being a homeowner to being homeless and having to wait for five years to be allocated a house, we've worked bloody hard to keep our heads above water and it's only been in the last two or three years that we've been able to afford the luxuries we have now. Do you know where I live? Do you know how much I earn? Do you know how old I am? Do you know how many children I have? Do you know the circumstances which left me homeless and waiting for five years to be allocated a council house? No, you don't, so don't even go there, with you "obviously you can afford to buy or rent privately". You don't have a clue, so stop judging.
There's not a chance in hell that we could get a mortgage at the ages of 54 and 59, and even if we wanted to we might be able to afford to rent privately for a couple of years, then we'll be retiring, and be back to square one.
Consider yourself lucky that you live in the East Midlands then, cos you certainly wouldn't be in a Council House in London. Not when you are a 2 car family, and not even old bangers, and can afford to keep a horse! The queue ahead of you for Council Housing in London would be massive and you wouldn't even be accepted as being in need.
If you can't afford to live in London you should move out to somewhere cheaper.
See how easy that was to say, without any knowledge of how people came to be in the circumstances they're in? About as easy as it is for people to be complaining how unfair it is that I have a council house and they don't and how I should give it up for someone who needs it. Given my age, I could rent privately for a year or two or three, but then I'd end up as a homeless OAP (which I consider to be worse than a homeless single mother, which was about as bad as it gets), and be back to square one.
Social housing isn't means tested and maybe the LA will evict us because a few people on an internet forum don't think I should be allowed it, even though they consider us to be still acceptable as social tenants.
So instead of having a go at me, why not have a go at the people who went out and bought their houses from the council, thus depleting housing stocks everywhere, because that's why this country into the state it's in, not through people struggling all their lives to make ends meet then having the audacity to stay in a council house when things have picked up, for a short period till retirement.
Not that I need to explain myself to you or anyone else, as you have no idea of how I came to drop from being a homeowner to being homeless and having to wait for five years to be allocated a house, we've worked bloody hard to keep our heads above water and it's only been in the last two or three years that we've been able to afford the luxuries we have now. Do you know where I live? Do you know how much I earn? Do you know how old I am? Do you know how many children I have? Do you know the circumstances which left me homeless and waiting for five years to be allocated a council house? No, you don't, so don't even go there, with you "obviously you can afford to buy or rent privately". You don't have a clue, so stop judging.
There's not a chance in hell that we could get a mortgage at the ages of 54 and 59, and even if we wanted to we might be able to afford to rent privately for a couple of years, then we'll be retiring, and be back to square one.
I didn't realise that we were playing Top Trumps.
I am not interested in the exact circumstances and if you read my other post you will see that I acknowledged that you would have needed social housing when you were first allocated it. Your need couldn't have been that urgent otherwise you would have been given somewhere straightaway.
I just think you are being selfish, staying in social housing that you obviously don't need at the moment when someone else that is genuinely in need now is missing out on a house. If, during your time of being "homeless", you knew of tenants that had two jobs, two cars and a horse that were occupying a council property that they didn't need - that you, being "homeless" needed at that moment no doubt you would have had something to say about the matter. Especially if they were only staying put until they retired so they didn't have to use their savings on rent. Even more so if they were showing off about it on an internet forum.
Your LA can't make you leave if you have a secure tenancy and you know this.
Do you know what? I can't be bothered with this any more, but I'm still going to call you out on a couple of things:
Context please - I wasn't "showing off" as you choose to put it. In the context of my post I was trying to demonstrate that council tenants are not all pikeys and losers. Of course you're not interested in the circumstances that led to me having social housing, because you're happy to condemn me and call me selfish.
I don't know how many more times I need to say it, but I resent you saying "obviously I don't need my home" because you know nothing about my circumstances and freely admit you don't want to know. You make it sound like I've got thousands squirrelled away and I'm staying put just to be spiteful. I actually have nothing at all in savings, and I'm just two paydays away from everything crashing down around me. We've had one holiday in ten years because we can't afford it but as I've only had three holidays in my adult life it doesn't really bother me.
So I'll say one last thing then I'll withdraw from this no-win argument. I'm doing nothing illegal, and I'm doing nothing that thousands of other council tenants all over the country are doing. Maybe it's not fair, but until the government and the local authorities change things (stop selling housing stock off, and build some more) it will continue, and to expect someone who's months off from drawing an old age pension to give up everything they've fought for over a long period of time isn't fair either.
I didn't read your post as you trying to demonstrate that not all council tenants are pikeys and losers, I read it as that you were "showing off". As I obviously misinterpreted it, I apologise and am sorry I replied the way I did.
Oh for heaven's sake , that Bushby woman is grinding on my last nerve in the "what happened after..." program .
She believes there's someone(s) else involved in the kidnap because "Karen and Donovan ain't clever enough to pull that off" .
OK, will someone remind her that the 'kidnap & claim reward ' plan died on it's arse exactly because "They ain't clever enough to pull that off ."
This woman has tasted the spotlight and loves it . She's had more than her 15 mins and needs to shut up .
Now she wants Karen to get in touch with her .Yeah , waste all the effort involved in giving Matthews a fresh start why don't you . Drag her back to the place and life that helped nurture her past horrific lifestyle .
Worse still Bushby is pleading for Shannon to get in touch with her or her old schoolmates to prove she's still alive ! All the years spent settling Shannon in a new decent life put at risk just so Queen Bushby can keep getting her face in the news .
Someone tell her to shut up and look to her own household and give over riding on the coat tails of Karen Matthews . She's as much of an attention seeker as Karen Matthews , just more articulate .
Oh for heaven's sake , that Bushby woman is grinding on my last nerve in the "what happened after..." program .
She believes there's someone(s) else involved in the kidnap because "Karen and Donovan ain't clever enough to pull that off" .
OK, will someone remind her that the 'kidnap & claim reward ' plan died on it's arse exactly because "They ain't clever enough to pull that off ."
This woman has tasted the spotlight and loves it . She's had more than her 15 mins and needs to shut up .
Now she wants Karen to get in touch with her .Yeah , waste all the effort involved in giving Matthews a fresh start why don't you . Drag her back to the place and life that helped nurture her past horrific lifestyle .
Worse still Bushby is pleading for Shannon to get in touch with her or her old schoolmates to prove she's still alive ! All the years spent settling Shannon in a new decent life put at risk just so Queen Bushby can keep getting her face in the news .
Someone tell her to shut up and look to her own household and give over riding on the coat tails of Karen Matthews . She's as much of an attention seeker as Karen Matthews , just more articulate .
Heather bell - this is exactly what we said when we watched it tonight. The Bushby woman is loving the fame and attention. That programme tonight gave us no more info or details on anything, it was pointless tv and a waste of time.
Oh for heaven's sake , that Bushby woman is grinding on my last nerve in the "what happened after..." program . She believes there's someone(s) else involved in the kidnap because "Karen and Donovan ain't clever enough to pull that off" .
OK, will someone remind her that the 'kidnap & claim reward ' plan died on it's arse exactly because "They ain't clever enough to pull that off ."
This woman has tasted the spotlight and loves it . She's had more than her 15 mins and needs to shut up .
Now she wants Karen to get in touch with her .Yeah , waste all the effort involved in giving Matthews a fresh start why don't you . Drag her back to the place and life that helped nurture her past horrific lifestyle .
Worse still Bushby is pleading for Shannon to get in touch with her or her old schoolmates to prove she's still alive ! All the years spent settling Shannon in a new decent life put at risk just so Queen Bushby can keep getting her face in the news .
Someone tell her to shut up and look to her own household and give over riding on the coat tails of Karen Matthews . She's as much of an attention seeker as Karen Matthews , just more articulate .
That wasnt Bushby. The police believed all along that someone else was involved for the exact same reasons
. She is simply saying what the police said all along.
Absolutely agree with you all.Bushby really is an attention seeker obsessed with Matthews it seems.and the programme was pointless bringing absolutely nothing new to the table , just rehashed interviews and opinions.let Shannon alone now along with her siblings to hopefully live happy normal lives.
Oh for heaven's sake , that Bushby woman is grinding on my last nerve in the "what happened after..." program . She believes there's someone(s) else involved in the kidnap because "Karen and Donovan ain't clever enough to pull that off" .
OK, will someone remind her that the 'kidnap & claim reward ' plan died on it's arse exactly because "They ain't clever enough to pull that off ."
This woman has tasted the spotlight and loves it . She's had more than her 15 mins and needs to shut up .
Now she wants Karen to get in touch with her .Yeah , waste all the effort involved in giving Matthews a fresh start why don't you . Drag her back to the place and life that helped nurture her past horrific lifestyle .
Worse still Bushby is pleading for Shannon to get in touch with her or her old schoolmates to prove she's still alive ! All the years spent settling Shannon in a new decent life put at risk just so Queen Bushby can keep getting her face in the news .
Someone tell her to shut up and look to her own household and give over riding on the coat tails of Karen Matthews . She's as much of an attention seeker as Karen Matthews , just more articulate .
That wasnt Bushby. The police believed all along that someone else was involved for the exact same reasons
. She is simply saying what the police said all along.
I saw a much better documentary on Discovery done a few years ago. The police on there said they were 'certain' others were involved. The liaison officer even thought that Karen was telling the truth in the car when she said it was about getting away from Craig initially. At 'some point' it grew into the money scam. The police did arrest others at the time but they were released due to lack of evidence. Do we know who these folks were? I'd assumed they were relatives of Craig but may be wrong.
As for Bushby she is obsessed but she clearly believes folks involved are walking free. You have to give her and Natalie credit for getting the confession out of Karen. Media use her as go to person and is manipulated as much as manipulating. Media want Shannon to break cover and Bushby is part of their campaign to achieve it.
Oh for heaven's sake , that Bushby woman is grinding on my last nerve in the "what happened after..." program . She believes there's someone(s) else involved in the kidnap because "Karen and Donovan ain't clever enough to pull that off" .
OK, will someone remind her that the 'kidnap & claim reward ' plan died on it's arse exactly because "They ain't clever enough to pull that off ."
This woman has tasted the spotlight and loves it . She's had more than her 15 mins and needs to shut up .
Now she wants Karen to get in touch with her .Yeah , waste all the effort involved in giving Matthews a fresh start why don't you . Drag her back to the place and life that helped nurture her past horrific lifestyle .
Worse still Bushby is pleading for Shannon to get in touch with her or her old schoolmates to prove she's still alive ! All the years spent settling Shannon in a new decent life put at risk just so Queen Bushby can keep getting her face in the news .
Someone tell her to shut up and look to her own household and give over riding on the coat tails of Karen Matthews . She's as much of an attention seeker as Karen Matthews , just more articulate .
That wasnt Bushby. The police believed all along that someone else was involved for the exact same reasons
. She is simply saying what the police said all along.
But Bushby is promoting the theory . I can see her writing a book about this, assisted by Keir Simmons(?) who seemed rather strangely in awe of her ability to boss people about .
There is no way anyone else was involved, in my opinion . Maybe that theory is the police's way to cover up the fact that they failed to be more thorough regarding checking out relatives of Karen and Craig living locally .
Either way once the cat was out of the bag there is no way in hell that either Karen or Donovan would protect any co-conspirators . It was every man and woman for themselves , as we saw with each one pouring most of the blame on the other . Once caught out people like them will throw anyone within reach under the bus to make themselves appear less culpable . There is no honour among thieves or kidnappers . You'll (a general "you" not you in particular Henry)never persuade me that Matthews or Donovan included anyone else in their hare brained scheme . It was hardly a Brinks Mat style gig and they simply got lucky when the police failed to latch onto Donovan . Was it not a neighbour of Donovan's who alerted cops to strange noises from Donovan's gaff ? Rather than detective work ? I think it was . Anyway I'm not buying what Bushby is selling at all .
Let's be honest, Bushby achieved nothing in this whole débacle . All the marching and tee-shirting and rallying served no purpose other than interfering with police procedures so I quite understand local people turning against Bushby . She was the one who made it all about their estate rather than about a trashy family trying to pull a fast one for filthy lucre . Had she been less vociferous then it would have reflected less badly on them all . Silly moo.
I suppose Julie Bushby's life outside of this case is boring & non-eventful, the Matthews case gives her life purpose & makes her feel useful & important - so she wants to drag it out & milk it as much as she can.
I suppose Julie Bushby's life outside of this case is boring & non-eventful, the Matthews case gives her life purpose & makes her feel useful & important - so she wants to drag it out & milk it as much as she can.
It seems so . During the programs 1 & 2 about the event her young son was not attending school , not sure if it was just being truant or an expulsion , but he and his sister complained to her that she had been neglecting them because of her focus on Shannon . Her daughter who looked mid teens was heavily pregnant at the time as well . Then in the What Happened After program Bushby said her grandchildren (plural) were living with her . You'd think that would be her priority now , her own family . But she also said that when she's not at work she is constantly on her computer reviewing all the stories on the case looking for a clue to her mystery Other Persons . I would say that's obsessive and evidence of her imaging herself some sort of super-sleuth who will crack the case wide open . But I'll leave it there .
I didn't read your post as you trying to demonstrate that not all council tenants are pikeys and losers, I read it as that you were "showing off". As I obviously misinterpreted it, I apologise and am sorry I replied the way I did.
Apology accepted - it's easy if you're having a debate in the pub when you can pick up signals that you just can't on a computer screen
It's strange that there is so little attention focused on the uncle. I know the "evil mother" is the main focus, but still it would have been interesting to know more. I really don't think anyone else was involved; and as another poster commented, it wasn't exactly the Brinks Mat robbery in terms of planning etc!
I suppose Julie Bushby's life outside of this case is boring & non-eventful, the Matthews case gives her life purpose & makes her feel useful & important - so she wants to drag it out & milk it as much as she can.
It seems so . During the programs 1 & 2 about the event her young son was not attending school , not sure if it was just being truant or an expulsion , but he and his sister complained to her that she had been neglecting them because of her focus on Shannon . Her daughter who looked mid teens was heavily pregnant at the time as well . Then in the What Happened After program Bushby said her grandchildren (plural) were living with her . You'd think that would be her priority now , her own family . But she also said that when she's not at work she is constantly on her computer reviewing all the stories on the case looking for a clue to her mystery Other Persons . I would say that's obsessive and evidence of her imaging herself some sort of super-sleuth who will crack the case wide open . But I'll leave it there .
That must disappoint her daughter who probably got pregnant assuming that it would result in her own council place.......
Not that I need to explain myself to you or anyone else, as you have no idea of how I came to drop from being a homeowner to being homeless and having to wait for five years to be allocated a house, we've worked bloody hard to keep our heads above water and it's only been in the last two or three years that we've been able to afford the luxuries we have now. Do you know where I live? Do you know how much I earn? Do you know how old I am? Do you know how many children I have? Do you know the circumstances which left me homeless and waiting for five years to be allocated a council house? No, you don't, so don't even go there, with you "obviously you can afford to buy or rent privately". You don't have a clue, so stop judging.
There's not a chance in hell that we could get a mortgage at the ages of 54 and 59, and even if we wanted to we might be able to afford to rent privately for a couple of years, then we'll be retiring, and be back to square one.
I didn't realise that we were playing Top Trumps.
I am not interested in the exact circumstances and if you read my other post you will see that I acknowledged that you would have needed social housing when you were first allocated it. Your need couldn't have been that urgent otherwise you would have been given somewhere straightaway.
I just think you are being selfish, staying in social housing that you obviously don't need at the moment when someone else that is genuinely in need now is missing out on a house. If, during your time of being "homeless", you knew of tenants that had two jobs, two cars and a horse that were occupying a council property that they didn't need - that you, being "homeless" needed at that moment no doubt you would have had something to say about the matter. Especially if they were only staying put until they retired so they didn't have to use their savings on rent. Even more so if they were showing off about it on an internet forum.
Your LA can't make you leave if you have a secure tenancy and you know this.
A horse is a massive drain on your income so I do not understand why they have one, as lovely as they are. When you get a hefty vet bill in you need to have back up money and that is without the farrier, annual injections etc etc. I know as I had horses in the past.
Oh for heaven's sake , that Bushby woman is grinding on my last nerve in the "what happened after..." program .
She believes there's someone(s) else involved in the kidnap because "Karen and Donovan ain't clever enough to pull that off" .
OK, will someone remind her that the 'kidnap & claim reward ' plan died on it's arse exactly because "They ain't clever enough to pull that off ."
This woman has tasted the spotlight and loves it . She's had more than her 15 mins and needs to shut up .
Now she wants Karen to get in touch with her .Yeah , waste all the effort involved in giving Matthews a fresh start why don't you . Drag her back to the place and life that helped nurture her past horrific lifestyle .
Worse still Bushby is pleading for Shannon to get in touch with her or her old schoolmates to prove she's still alive ! All the years spent settling Shannon in a new decent life put at risk just so Queen Bushby can keep getting her face in the news .
Someone tell her to shut up and look to her own household and give over riding on the coat tails of Karen Matthews . She's as much of an attention seeker as Karen Matthews , just more articulate .
I was gobsmacked when she said about Shannon coming to see her school mates. Bushby really is an attention seeker keeping this going. She needs to get on with her own life now.
Comments
I wouldn't attach "desperation" to the life lead by Matthews & women like her, I would however use that term to apply to poor people living in the UK during the Victorian era or present day people living somewhere like parts of Syria.
Then we will have to agree to differ. I have certainly seen desperation from those stuck in a cycle of preventable pregnancies, lack of prospects or aspirations, endless repetition of abusive relationships and, although some may be the result of bad choices, the desperation of surviving from week to week.
I, and most likely you, are very fortunate that we don't have to struggle on a daily basis.
Oh believe me, I do struggle on a daily basis! Due to illness I cannot work (and have to put up with even members of my own family telling me I'm a lazy cheat), I've already been through an appeal against removal of benefits which took 18 months to resolve & the spectre of repetition hangs over me; I cannot get social housing & obviously can't afford to buy - so I end up in the crap end of the private rental sector. Where I differ to women like KM is that I have never felt the need to simply accept any man that came along due to that being more appealing than being single, hence I waited till I was 37 (7 years ago) to get involved in a proper relationship with a man & he is my perfect match, furthermore I know full well that like KM I am incapable of looking after a child properly, hence the only time I got pregnant (at 39) I had an abortion, having had an abortion & now being menopausal it is very sad because I never got to be a mother & although I'm not mad keen on kids it's still a difficult position to be in.
I am sorry to hear that you have had to deal with so many struggles throughout your life and the difficulty of coming to terms with the fact that, rather than bring children into a non ideal situation, that you made the decision selflessly to forego being a mother. You do sound as if you have dealt with them far better than many would have done. I suspect that you are far more intelligent and capable than KM and thus equipped better to find solutions.
The problem with the likes of KM, and what leaves them in such a "desperate" situation, is that they lack the education, support network and ability to make wise decisions (which is hard for all of us).
Thank you. It has been raised in this thread many times that KM has a low IQ, mine is quite high although I'm not MENSA material.
I would also imagine that in addition to your higher IQ, which makes a huge difference as to what you are capable of achieving, that there is also a major disparity in your emotional intelligence to that of KM. The bad decisions and situations that she found herself in are as much down to her low emotional intelligence and inability to make wise judgements as her low intellect.
I hope that things look up for you soon.
Not that I need to explain myself to you or anyone else, as you have no idea of how I came to drop from being a homeowner to being homeless and having to wait for five years to be allocated a house, we've worked bloody hard to keep our heads above water and it's only been in the last two or three years that we've been able to afford the luxuries we have now. Do you know where I live? Do you know how much I earn? Do you know how old I am? Do you know how many children I have? Do you know the circumstances which left me homeless and waiting for five years to be allocated a council house? No, you don't, so don't even go there, with you "obviously you can afford to buy or rent privately". You don't have a clue, so stop judging.
There's not a chance in hell that we could get a mortgage at the ages of 54 and 59, and even if we wanted to we might be able to afford to rent privately for a couple of years, then we'll be retiring, and be back to square one.
If you can't afford to live in London you should move out to somewhere cheaper.
See how easy that was to say, without any knowledge of how people came to be in the circumstances they're in? About as easy as it is for people to be complaining how unfair it is that I have a council house and they don't and how I should give it up for someone who needs it. Given my age, I could rent privately for a year or two or three, but then I'd end up as a homeless OAP (which I consider to be worse than a homeless single mother, which was about as bad as it gets), and be back to square one.
Social housing isn't means tested and maybe the LA will evict us because a few people on an internet forum don't think I should be allowed it, even though they consider us to be still acceptable as social tenants.
So instead of having a go at me, why not have a go at the people who went out and bought their houses from the council, thus depleting housing stocks everywhere, because that's why this country into the state it's in, not through people struggling all their lives to make ends meet then having the audacity to stay in a council house when things have picked up, for a short period till retirement.
I didn't realise that we were playing Top Trumps.
I am not interested in the exact circumstances and if you read my other post you will see that I acknowledged that you would have needed social housing when you were first allocated it. Your need couldn't have been that urgent otherwise you would have been given somewhere straightaway.
I just think you are being selfish, staying in social housing that you obviously don't need at the moment when someone else that is genuinely in need now is missing out on a house. If, during your time of being "homeless", you knew of tenants that had two jobs, two cars and a horse that were occupying a council property that they didn't need - that you, being "homeless" needed at that moment no doubt you would have had something to say about the matter. Especially if they were only staying put until they retired so they didn't have to use their savings on rent. Even more so if they were showing off about it on an internet forum.
Your LA can't make you leave if you have a secure tenancy and you know this.
Context please - I wasn't "showing off" as you choose to put it. In the context of my post I was trying to demonstrate that council tenants are not all pikeys and losers. Of course you're not interested in the circumstances that led to me having social housing, because you're happy to condemn me and call me selfish.
I don't know how many more times I need to say it, but I resent you saying "obviously I don't need my home" because you know nothing about my circumstances and freely admit you don't want to know. You make it sound like I've got thousands squirrelled away and I'm staying put just to be spiteful. I actually have nothing at all in savings, and I'm just two paydays away from everything crashing down around me. We've had one holiday in ten years because we can't afford it but as I've only had three holidays in my adult life it doesn't really bother me.
So I'll say one last thing then I'll withdraw from this no-win argument. I'm doing nothing illegal, and I'm doing nothing that thousands of other council tenants all over the country are doing. Maybe it's not fair, but until the government and the local authorities change things (stop selling housing stock off, and build some more) it will continue, and to expect someone who's months off from drawing an old age pension to give up everything they've fought for over a long period of time isn't fair either.
I didn't read your post as you trying to demonstrate that not all council tenants are pikeys and losers, I read it as that you were "showing off". As I obviously misinterpreted it, I apologise and am sorry I replied the way I did.
She believes there's someone(s) else involved in the kidnap because "Karen and Donovan ain't clever enough to pull that off" .
OK, will someone remind her that the 'kidnap & claim reward ' plan died on it's arse exactly because "They ain't clever enough to pull that off ."
This woman has tasted the spotlight and loves it . She's had more than her 15 mins and needs to shut up .
Now she wants Karen to get in touch with her .Yeah , waste all the effort involved in giving Matthews a fresh start why don't you . Drag her back to the place and life that helped nurture her past horrific lifestyle .
Worse still Bushby is pleading for Shannon to get in touch with her or her old schoolmates to prove she's still alive ! All the years spent settling Shannon in a new decent life put at risk just so Queen Bushby can keep getting her face in the news .
Someone tell her to shut up and look to her own household and give over riding on the coat tails of Karen Matthews . She's as much of an attention seeker as Karen Matthews , just more articulate .
Heather bell - this is exactly what we said when we watched it tonight. The Bushby woman is loving the fame and attention. That programme tonight gave us no more info or details on anything, it was pointless tv and a waste of time.
That wasnt Bushby. The police believed all along that someone else was involved for the exact same reasons
. She is simply saying what the police said all along.
I saw a much better documentary on Discovery done a few years ago. The police on there said they were 'certain' others were involved. The liaison officer even thought that Karen was telling the truth in the car when she said it was about getting away from Craig initially. At 'some point' it grew into the money scam. The police did arrest others at the time but they were released due to lack of evidence. Do we know who these folks were? I'd assumed they were relatives of Craig but may be wrong.
As for Bushby she is obsessed but she clearly believes folks involved are walking free. You have to give her and Natalie credit for getting the confession out of Karen. Media use her as go to person and is manipulated as much as manipulating. Media want Shannon to break cover and Bushby is part of their campaign to achieve it.
There is no way anyone else was involved, in my opinion . Maybe that theory is the police's way to cover up the fact that they failed to be more thorough regarding checking out relatives of Karen and Craig living locally .
Either way once the cat was out of the bag there is no way in hell that either Karen or Donovan would protect any co-conspirators . It was every man and woman for themselves , as we saw with each one pouring most of the blame on the other . Once caught out people like them will throw anyone within reach under the bus to make themselves appear less culpable . There is no honour among thieves or kidnappers . You'll (a general "you" not you in particular Henry)never persuade me that Matthews or Donovan included anyone else in their hare brained scheme . It was hardly a Brinks Mat style gig and they simply got lucky when the police failed to latch onto Donovan . Was it not a neighbour of Donovan's who alerted cops to strange noises from Donovan's gaff ? Rather than detective work ? I think it was . Anyway I'm not buying what Bushby is selling at all .
Let's be honest, Bushby achieved nothing in this whole débacle . All the marching and tee-shirting and rallying served no purpose other than interfering with police procedures so I quite understand local people turning against Bushby . She was the one who made it all about their estate rather than about a trashy family trying to pull a fast one for filthy lucre . Had she been less vociferous then it would have reflected less badly on them all . Silly moo.
Apology accepted - it's easy if you're having a debate in the pub when you can pick up signals that you just can't on a computer screen
That must disappoint her daughter who probably got pregnant assuming that it would result in her own council place.......
A horse is a massive drain on your income so I do not understand why they have one, as lovely as they are. When you get a hefty vet bill in you need to have back up money and that is without the farrier, annual injections etc etc. I know as I had horses in the past.
I was gobsmacked when she said about Shannon coming to see her school mates. Bushby really is an attention seeker keeping this going. She needs to get on with her own life now.