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Should the BBC Regions become more like the old ITV regions?
Rijowhi
Posts: 1,062 Forum Member
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With all the talk of devolution for the English Regions, Is there a case for the BBC to be split into actual Regions like the old ITV network (in other words if I was watching BBC in the Midlands, I'd see BBC Midlands idents)? This would create a more even Broadcasting environment throughout the UK, with each Regions Licence Fee going towards programming and services for/made by that Region.
When it comes to ITV's own Regional services, I believe the Contract Rights Renewal agreement should be amended or scrapped in order for that channel to much improve it's own Regional News/programming as well as provide some British made Children's programming. When it comes to programming made in the Regions for both Channel 3/ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 I believe there needs to be a programming quota for each Region/Home Nation instead of the outside London rule. A return to the old style ITV isn't going to happen, however the commercial channels can still provide some form of Regional service in their own way.
This would surely help the UK to become truly less London centric?
When it comes to ITV's own Regional services, I believe the Contract Rights Renewal agreement should be amended or scrapped in order for that channel to much improve it's own Regional News/programming as well as provide some British made Children's programming. When it comes to programming made in the Regions for both Channel 3/ITV, Channel 4 and Channel 5 I believe there needs to be a programming quota for each Region/Home Nation instead of the outside London rule. A return to the old style ITV isn't going to happen, however the commercial channels can still provide some form of Regional service in their own way.
This would surely help the UK to become truly less London centric?
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Well sometimes the past can shape the future... The BBC has some way to go before it truly serves all it's Regions. When The Midlands and East Anglia get 1/9 of what that area raise in Licence Fees, then something is truly wrong. A truly Regional set up would be a far better set up in my opinion, with Regional Studios being used to their true potential.
As for ITV, the Channel Islands are an obvious exception. When it comes to Border, production regions wouldn't neccessary be the same as News regions. I'd imagine Border England would be mixed with Tyne Tees, as Channel 4's new quota is for the whole of Scotland (therefore C3/ITV should also be). I feel the quotas for all the English regions should be the same, about 2% per Region replacing the Outside London quota. If a quota of 3.5% was set for the other Home Nations, the entire total would be less than the current 35% Outside London quota but would truly serve the Regions/Home Nations. With the new quotas for Channel 4 though, this system couldn't work for them now with Scotland already having far improved Production quotas (nevermind the smaller Channel 5, which I think I was really being ambitious with).
Thanks for replying FTV btw.
This is ridiculously spurious argument being spouted as a consequence of the Scottish referendum. It wasn't valid there, and it isnt valid here. The Midlands etc aren't getting 1/9 of what they raise. They are getting access to >£3 billion worth of programmes and services that every licence payer has contributed to.
In case you haven't noticed the Government has issued local TV licences. These are failing despite being given Licence Fee support because nobody wants to watch 'local' programmes. Why should any more public money be wasted to duplicate resources and on services that nobody wants?
How exactly would this work? Eastenders is set in London but filmed in Essex so who pays for it to be made? Question Time is outsourced to Mentorn by BBC Scotland, yet it travels around the UK. It isn't made for any region - it serves the country as a whole. So costs for networked & 'national' shows would presumably have to be divided out across all regions so that will eat into both their finances and scheduling slots - how is that different to now? All your idea means is a duplication of resources, staff and studios which increase overheads. It is exactly this reason why ITV consolidated. How much of an increase in the Licence fee do you propose should occur for this idea to occur?
This is about National production made in the Midlands, not Local TV for local people. I accept that people are gaining access to over £3 billion worth of services, however that doesn't mean that more couldn't be produced in the Midlands etc. The Regions already have the Production facilities in place but London dominates. Many of the Regions could save money by combining roles over several areas as already happens. They would also likely save money in the fact it's generally cheaper to live outside London meaning wages should be lower. As for Eastenders, it would be the area producing the programme that would pay for the programme, just because it's set in London doesn't mean it's made there. The difference between the BBC and ITV is that ITV is a business that has to make a profit meaning that consolidation had to occur (though I don't fully agree with many things they've done over the years).
FTV - As for Birmingham, there is a very long way to go...an ok start though.
Thanks for all replies btw.:)
EE is made in London as the end caption says but it's a network programme so paid for by the network. Tony Hall has said he recognises the failure to invest in Birmingham and that is now being addressed.In the longer term new studio facilities in Bristol and Belfast are being considered (and BBC Wales has already announced it is relocating from Llandaff). I see no similar investment in the ITV regions.
Why isn't ITV structured like that any longer?
Because it turned out to be not commercially viable - that argument does not apply to the BBC.The original ITV federal system required that each contractor should produce programing reflecting its particular region (and studios as far flung as Aberdeen, Carlisle,Cardiff and Norwich were busy churning out network programmes). Now the money men and women rule and that has all been conveniently forgotten.
As a Brummie myself, I'm happy to hear there will be some investment. The east side of the nation seems to be less lucky though, especially surprised that Leeds is not campaigning for more National Production.
commercially not viable. itv has become more london central and the bbc has to be fair tried to move out of london some what with the big complex at media city in salford.
with the reduction in the licence fee, i cannot see the bbc expanding regionally much further. we have got to be grateful with what we have.
I would have to agree. Economic restraints have damaged the BBC production in regional broadcasting, sports coverage and drama. Therefore, we have to make do with what we have.
The BBC probably has more out-of-London production now than it ever has (and no-one has mentioned the large number of radio programmes made in the regions for networks, this is after all a broadcasting topic).ITV has the least out-of-London production it has ever had.
I'm more interested in all Regions getting a fairer deal than turning the clock back. A world with no Red Button, no i-player, no News Channel, no channel(s) for Children, no BBC website - to borrow a phrase from the No campaign in the Scottish referendum 'no thanks'.
Besides it was ITV who had 'real' regions not the BBC. As stated previously by FTV, it's not commercially viable for a commercial channel to provide that sort of service these days.
I think it unlikely that the BBC will be able to afford to provide more local content although "the best of the regions" could be used to fill an hour at the weekends on BBC4. Sorry to annoy those who hate the past but a working title of "Nationwide" comes to mind
I don't really see the need for any more Regional programming from the BBC* (ITV is another matter though, they need some incentive methinks). It's more Production in the Regions that is shown Nationally that I'm talking about. It's important that each Region gets to sell itself Nationally/Internationally after all, which TV helps with. Not all the UK has the same views as London either...
* Maybe the Late Kick Off programme should be shown every week of the Season though...
Seems like the typical sort of post you get in here from people who are so obsessed with the past they are always going to dislike whatever broadcasters do in the future. I think it's hilarious (and a little troubling) that anyone thinks there is any point in discussing bringing the "regions" back in ANY form, given how it will never happen ever. Prehaps some of you should get out into the world a bit more, such a fixation with nostalgia (which is fun, but living in the present is more important) isn't healthy.
Another one off in fantasy land.
The lack of studios would not be the reason why the regions won't ever be brought back in any form.
No, that's why the BBC has invested in big studios in Salford, Pacific Quay, Belfast and is refurbishing three studios at TV Centre.
It's still not comparable to the ITV regions People on these forums need to accept that is dead and buried and never coming back.
(Can't help thinking Wuthering's tone here is a little ironic considering that the ideology he clearly sees as unalterable has its roots in a relatively small group of people deciding that another ideology which had come to be seen as unalterable didn't have to be so. But that's a separate issue.)
a propos something mentioned in the first post here, the BBC English regions *did* have their own continuity in the 1970s - sometimes with announcers appearing in-vision and taking a friendlier approach than Peter Bolgar, Peter Brook et al at TVC, who at least on peak time BBC1 during the week were only heard in London and the south-east - but this was dropped in 1980 as part of a round of cutbacks caused by (ahem) a new Tory government refusing an increase in the licence fee. You can be sure that, had such continuity been reintroduced during the 2000s - perhaps if New Labour's vague ambition for regional assemblies had actually been successful - it would have been a target for cutbacks these last few years.
Sad to say there isn't the studio capacity in many ITV regions now. Tyne Tees used to have a studio complex the size of Broadcasting House, now it operates a newsroom in Gateshead. Regional ITV sadly is largerly over.
However, the BBC has taken off where ITV left off. Apart from the regions for news and local programming, Cardiff specialises in drama, Bristol still has its Natural History Unit, Glasgow does quizzes, and Salford Quays has sport, children's programmes, 5 LIve and Breakfast.