And to reiterate, unlikely is not impossible. The efforts to actually make this happen by design would be quite onerous and easily traced. You've been shown that the number plate H982 FKL was not procured directly for a car. You've been shown that the number plates where changed after 3 days into a shoot because a third party on twitter pointed out it could be provocative. You have been shown that the challenge actually implied a car of an era which in the UK would have one of those number plates. You have the categorical denials by pretty much everybody involved that they did not know, did not intend to cause offence etc,
You have had it pointed out to you, that missing something like a number plate containing an oblique reference, is actually quite easy when a number plate is irrelevant to pretty much everything a driver does (not the owner).
Do I seem to disagree that it couldn't be coincidence? Yes. I disagree.
Now a few of us has displayed the arguments behind their opinion. Perhaps it's down to you to speculate on the probable way (in your opinion) that by design, the numberplate H982 FKL managed to find it's way Argentina, in order to cause offence, without anybody from the DVLA, TG or anyone else, spilling the beans.
We can then examine, on the balance of probabilities which was is the most likely since it seems to be of some importance to you.
It's not really important to me at all. I'm just giving my opinion on the subject to some random on a message board. Passes the time eh.
I'll try and keep my answers short and sweet, as you're determined to pick me up on everything I post.
Because it's one of the implications of your position (it seems). Whether you wish to acknowledge it or not, but you seem to be implying that somebody searched for specific number plates and vehicles.
Searching for specific numberplates is quite easy. However this information is not very useful without the Owner's information, which is unobtainable from the DVLA without good reason. Therefore it implies a contravention of the DPA.
Does it. From what I can gather from the DVLA link, you can search the database for available number plates, select the one you want and buy it. No need to contact the owner and find out their personal details. Besides, this is all irrelevant, as the plate concerned is the original plate fitted to the car.
Does it. From what I can gather from the DVLA link, you can search the database for available number plates, select the one you want and buy it.
Yes it does, because those are "Availible numberplates". Those fitted to my car are by definition, unavailible. And for anybody to find out where my particular numberplate is, will need the owners information.
No need to contact the owner and find out their personal details. Besides, this is all irrelevant, as the plate concerned is the original plate fitted to the car.
Well if you're searching for a specific numberplate - how do you find out where that numberplate actually is?
Does it. From what I can gather from the DVLA link, you can search the database for available number plates, select the one you want and buy it. No need to contact the owner and find out their personal details. Besides, this is all irrelevant, as the plate concerned is the original plate fitted to the car.
You've misunderstood how that part works.
The DLVA keeps back 'interesting' plates and offers those for sale, but the one from the Porsche is just one of the randomly generated ones that get given out to cars. You can't buy one of those, if it did happen to spell out something somehow meaningful to you, without the owner's permission.
(As a side-note, the 'chosen' numberplate also has to be 'older' than the car you put it onto)
Are you American by any chance? Your understanding is slightly more similar to the US numberplate system....
I've pointed out several areas where you could move forward - such as describing what you think probably happened. You've neglected to do so, except insisting that it must have been planned.
I'm suggesting it was planned. That's what I think happened. As I'm not going to change my opinion, we are not going to move forward in terms of what you want me to think.
Your questions are all rather irrelevant, i.e. they do not need to be answered, bearing in mind that the car has the original number plates fitted.
No they are not. You have stated repeatedly that it's very unlikely that the chances that such a numberplate going to argentina by coincidence. I'm simply asking you how feasible and likely it is that it happened by design and how you think it probably happened.
I'm not sure how much plainer I can make the questions.
You're like a dog with a bone.
I've already said I got the registration incorrect initially and not only that apologized, so leave it at that.
What the does that have to do with anything?
Look you've stated that you don't think it was a coincidence - so surely, you must be able to speculate on the possible/probable ways it happen by design? If not then you don't really have an alternative explanation do you?
I'm suggesting it was planned. That's what I think happened.
It was planned, but because the Production team of Top Geear are incredibly intelligent, resourceful and dastardly beyond us mere mortals, you can't begin to speculate how they managed to achieve this? What exactly are you basing your opinion on?
And if it was Planned - then why did they change the numberplates, not 3 days into the shoot, before any offence was caused in person?
As I'm not going to change my opinion, we are not going to move forward in terms of what you want me to think.
What is it with people being closed minded and even admitting it! Fair enough, you won't change your mind regardless. I'm still going to respond to you, because it might influence other people.
No they are not. You have stated repeatedly that it's very unlikely that the chances that such a numberplate going to argentina by coincidence. I'm simply asking you how feasible and likely it is that it happened by design and how you think it probably happened.
<snip>
Look you've stated that you don't think it was a coincidence - so surely, you must be able to speculate on the possible/probable ways it happen by design? If not then you don't really have an alternative explanation do you?
So what do you think happened, in a nutshell, jra?
edit; Of course you post just before I do! :-D How do you reckon it this plan came to be and was executed?
Well, I don't think they randomly walked into a sales outlet, bought a Porsche 928, paid for it, drove the car away and then noticed 'Oh look, it has number plate H982 FKL. How convenient, as we are going to the Falklands.' All this by sheer chance.
Well, I don't think they randomly walked into a sales outlet, bought a Porsche 928, paid for it, drove the car away and then noticed 'Oh look, it has number plate H982 FKL. How convenient, as we are going to the Falklands.' All this by sheer chance.
Any round and round we go.
If you're going to list all the things you think didn't happen, we could be here for some time. It's the reason I asked what you think did!
What is it with people being closed minded and even admitting it! Fair enough, you won't change your mind regardless. I'm still going to respond to you, because it might influence other people.
Influence other people. LMAO. Why would you even care about influencing people you don't even know on a subject like this, i.e. one that is not really very important.
Influence other people. LMAO. Why would you even care about influencing people you don't even know on a subject like this, i.e. one that is not really very important.
Why are you now on a thread which you have admitted that you aren't going to change your mind?
Well, I don't think they randomly walked into a sales outlet, bought a Porsche 928, paid for it, drove the car away and then noticed 'Oh look, it has number plate H982 FKL. How convenient, as we are going to the Falklands.' All this by sheer chance.
Any round and round we go.
Oh and they weren't going to the Falklands. They were going to Patagonia.
Sorry I don't follow that logic. Are you saying that because it was a Porsche, the chances of getting a number plate like that are higher. If anything, it should be lower, since that number plate could have been fixed to any car.
The odds of getting a car with the particular suffix as in this instance is massively reduced if there are only a few thousand of that model sold per year, from only a handful of dealerships.
To put it simply, if there are only about 20 Porsche dealerships, the number of likely registration suffixes is about 20 (or less) depending on the DVLA regional offices at the time.
That means your chances of getting that suffix is going to be about 1 in 20.
The chances of getting the number is going to be a little higher, but because that number could appear in any year it's not going to be massively higher (especially if you take into account other possible "offensive" numbers that could be combined with the suffix).
Remember plates are usually issued depending on area, thus if you've got only a few dealerships you're going to find a lot more (in percentage terms) of any of those cars registered in the limited number of areas the dealerships are in.
That compares to Ford/Vauxhall dealerships where there may be a hundred+ across the country (there used to be 3 Vauxhall dealers within about 15-20 minutes of me), and thus the chances of getting any particular suffix when buying an old Vauxhall is quite a bit lower (unless you get one that was registered in/around Luton because they had a factory there and a discount scheme for employees and thus Vauxhalls were very common in that area).
I don't know for sure how they obtained that car, but I'm willing to bet it wasn't a random event.
Nobody has asked you to be "sure". They've repeatedly asked you, how you think it might have happened. You complain about moving around in circles yet you refuse to give a definitive answer to help move us forward.
You can just say "I don't know". That's still definitive.
And he is not the one refusing to face basic facts about vehicle licensing and "odds", which have been politely pointed out by several different people on several different occasions.
I'm only responding to questions raised, not raising them myself. There's a difference.
I've already suggested that we'll agree to disagree with some posters, but they keep demanding answers and wont let it drop.
If you're responding to questions raised then there is no problem. Here are a few that have been raised.
"Why are you now on a thread which you have admitted that you aren't going to change your mind?"
"What do you think probably happened and how does that tally up with what we actually know?"
"And if it was Planned - then why did they change the numberplates, not 3 days into the shoot, before any offence was caused in person?"
"I'm simply asking you how feasible and likely it is that it happened by design and how you think it probably happened."
"Please do answer how you would probably go about engineering numberplate-gate by design."
"Look you've stated that you don't think it was a coincidence - so surely, you must be able to speculate on the possible/probable ways it happen by design? If not then you don't really have an alternative explanation do you?"
All variations of a theme, but questions which you haven't answered.
Again a simple "I don't know" will suffice - but of course it heavily undermines your opinion, given that your supporting argument is largely lacking.
Comments
It's not really important to me at all. I'm just giving my opinion on the subject to some random on a message board. Passes the time eh.
I'll try and keep my answers short and sweet, as you're determined to pick me up on everything I post.
Does it. From what I can gather from the DVLA link, you can search the database for available number plates, select the one you want and buy it. No need to contact the owner and find out their personal details. Besides, this is all irrelevant, as the plate concerned is the original plate fitted to the car.
I'm not determined at all - I'm just pointing out how through your own arguments it's incredibly unlikely that TG engineered Numberplate-Gate.
Please do answer how you would probably go about engineering numberplate-gate by design.
Yes it does, because those are "Availible numberplates". Those fitted to my car are by definition, unavailible. And for anybody to find out where my particular numberplate is, will need the owners information.
Well if you're searching for a specific numberplate - how do you find out where that numberplate actually is?
You've misunderstood how that part works.
The DLVA keeps back 'interesting' plates and offers those for sale, but the one from the Porsche is just one of the randomly generated ones that get given out to cars. You can't buy one of those, if it did happen to spell out something somehow meaningful to you, without the owner's permission.
(As a side-note, the 'chosen' numberplate also has to be 'older' than the car you put it onto)
Are you American by any chance? Your understanding is slightly more similar to the US numberplate system....
Your questions are all rather irrelevant, i.e. they do not need to be answered, bearing in mind that the car has the original number plates fitted.
You're like a dog with a bone.
I've already said I got the registration incorrect initially and not only that apologized, so leave it at that.
Am I American. No, not exactly.
I'm suggesting it was planned. That's what I think happened. As I'm not going to change my opinion, we are not going to move forward in terms of what you want me to think.
edit; Of course you post just before I do!
No they are not. You have stated repeatedly that it's very unlikely that the chances that such a numberplate going to argentina by coincidence. I'm simply asking you how feasible and likely it is that it happened by design and how you think it probably happened.
I'm not sure how much plainer I can make the questions.
What the does that have to do with anything?
Look you've stated that you don't think it was a coincidence - so surely, you must be able to speculate on the possible/probable ways it happen by design? If not then you don't really have an alternative explanation do you?
It was planned, but because the Production team of Top Geear are incredibly intelligent, resourceful and dastardly beyond us mere mortals, you can't begin to speculate how they managed to achieve this? What exactly are you basing your opinion on?
And if it was Planned - then why did they change the numberplates, not 3 days into the shoot, before any offence was caused in person?
What is it with people being closed minded and even admitting it! Fair enough, you won't change your mind regardless. I'm still going to respond to you, because it might influence other people.
Well, I don't think they randomly walked into a sales outlet, bought a Porsche 928, paid for it, drove the car away and then noticed 'Oh look, it has number plate H982 FKL. How convenient, as we are going to the Falklands.' All this by sheer chance.
Any round and round we go.
Influence other people. LMAO. Why would you even care about influencing people you don't even know on a subject like this, i.e. one that is not really very important.
Indeed. Perhaps JRA if you would address what I've typed, we wouldn't be going around in circles.
What do you think probably happened and how does that tally up with what we actually know?
Why are you now on a thread which you have admitted that you aren't going to change your mind?
Oh and they weren't going to the Falklands. They were going to Patagonia.
I don't know for sure how they obtained that car, but I'm willing to bet it wasn't a random event.
http://cars.aol.co.uk/2014/10/08/top-gear-may-face-1-000-number-plate-fine/
http://www.rnews.co.za/article/1115/top-gear-in-hot-water-over-number-plates
Yes, I know.
I'll edit the post if it makes you feel better.
The odds of getting a car with the particular suffix as in this instance is massively reduced if there are only a few thousand of that model sold per year, from only a handful of dealerships.
To put it simply, if there are only about 20 Porsche dealerships, the number of likely registration suffixes is about 20 (or less) depending on the DVLA regional offices at the time.
That means your chances of getting that suffix is going to be about 1 in 20.
The chances of getting the number is going to be a little higher, but because that number could appear in any year it's not going to be massively higher (especially if you take into account other possible "offensive" numbers that could be combined with the suffix).
Remember plates are usually issued depending on area, thus if you've got only a few dealerships you're going to find a lot more (in percentage terms) of any of those cars registered in the limited number of areas the dealerships are in.
That compares to Ford/Vauxhall dealerships where there may be a hundred+ across the country (there used to be 3 Vauxhall dealers within about 15-20 minutes of me), and thus the chances of getting any particular suffix when buying an old Vauxhall is quite a bit lower (unless you get one that was registered in/around Luton because they had a factory there and a discount scheme for employees and thus Vauxhalls were very common in that area).
Nobody has asked you to be "sure". They've repeatedly asked you, how you think it might have happened. You complain about moving around in circles yet you refuse to give a definitive answer to help move us forward.
You can just say "I don't know". That's still definitive.
Feel free. Facts should be important.
He's not the only one.
And he is not the one refusing to face basic facts about vehicle licensing and "odds", which have been politely pointed out by several different people on several different occasions.
I'm only responding to questions raised, not raising them myself. There's a difference.
I've already suggested that we'll agree to disagree with some posters, but they keep demanding answers and wont let it drop.
If you're responding to questions raised then there is no problem. Here are a few that have been raised.
"Why are you now on a thread which you have admitted that you aren't going to change your mind?"
"What do you think probably happened and how does that tally up with what we actually know?"
"And if it was Planned - then why did they change the numberplates, not 3 days into the shoot, before any offence was caused in person?"
"I'm simply asking you how feasible and likely it is that it happened by design and how you think it probably happened."
"Please do answer how you would probably go about engineering numberplate-gate by design."
"Look you've stated that you don't think it was a coincidence - so surely, you must be able to speculate on the possible/probable ways it happen by design? If not then you don't really have an alternative explanation do you?"
All variations of a theme, but questions which you haven't answered.
Again a simple "I don't know" will suffice - but of course it heavily undermines your opinion, given that your supporting argument is largely lacking.