Martha Jones- a strong woman! I've heard it all now. Good on Freema though .I hear she's actually getting paid work in 2015 despite still trying to act her way out of a paper bag. Quite remarkable .
History is made! For once saladfingers81 takes a break from abusing other forum members and licking SM's a**e and actually makes a valid point.
I wish I never said anything now. Strong woman = can of worms on here then!? Perhaps Clara should undertake some Donna-esque 'epic bantz' or be adorably jobless and without ambition just like Rose. Then she'd be popular with all of you! Yeah. That's a plan.
It's a bit disconcerting that you struggle to tell the difference between "strong female character" and "abusive female character".
I wish I never said anything now. Strong woman = can of worms on here then!? Perhaps Clara should undertake some Donna-esque 'epic bantz' or be adorably jobless and without ambition just like Rose. Then she'd be popular with all of you! Yeah. That's a plan.
Donna was an overbearing and loudmouthed oaf. That does not make her a strong woman. It simply makes her annoying. Notice that she was not on my strong woman list.
As for Rose, she didn't move mountains, she literally moved universes just to see The Doctor again. She led the resistance (so did Martha Jones, which is why she is on my list of strong women from Doctor Who) and she fought back until she made it into this universe to save The Doctor, Donna and our entire world.
How in the world is Clara a strong woman to you? Is it because she emotionally abuses people? Is it because she is willing to stab her friends in the back in a fit of pique (the volcano)? Is it because she could run around the entire universe having adventures but would rather date a school teacher? Is it because she lies to the school teacher to whom she is dating?
While your mileage may vary (I am sure that we all have our differing ideas of what makes a strong woman), I just can't see her as one.
Clara in series 9 will be dependent on the Doctor. She has given up her teaching career to travel with him. Currently single unless a new love interest shows up.
She has a dad and gran she loves and a step mum she doesn't like as family. Don't know if we see much of them this year
Clara might get a very bad shock before she finally leaves the Tardis. Can the Doctor really offer her what she needs and protect her ?.
The problem is that you tried to imply that having a problem with Clara was akin to having a problem with strong women in the show in general which simply isn't the case. People who dislike Clara dislike her individually and her specific traits. No point getting annoyed because you can't understand why others have a problem with her but you don't, it's called a difference of opinion, and insulting other popular characters that people have said they like isn't exactly going to get anyone to suddenly come around to your way of thinking.
Are you actually for real? I don't care what your or anyone's opinion on a fictional character is. Even a little bit. I was just taking the piss. Get a grip.
Are you actually for real? I don't care what your or anyone's opinion on a fictional character is. Even a little bit. I was just taking the piss. Get a grip.
Without a smilie or some other indication, it is nigh impossible to discern this from the written word. You shouldn't become perturbed at somebody else who cannot read your mind when you give them no hints at all.
For me, its been the same with Clara as with Martha/Freema; a very promising start and then, through poor writing, that early promise was never realised.
I thought Jenna was brilliant in Asylum of the Daleks, and in The Snowmen too. But then it all went to pot.
The difference is that whilst RTD realised he'd written Martha into a corner and so allowed for an early but graceful exit, the current team seems to think that if they just keep chucking more Clara at us she'll eventually work.
If Clara was going to gel with the audience I think she would have gelled during season 8. I honestly don't think she did.
I honestly want to LOVE Clara because I actually really love Jenna but the longer she has stayed in the show, the less I've enjoyed her.
Without a smilie or some other indication, it is nigh impossible to discern this from the written word. You shouldn't become perturbed at somebody else who cannot read your mind when you give them no hints at all.
Forgive me. I was under the impression no one could possibly take this conversation that seriously.
I think in the next series we will see a more adventurous Clara and she will become much more like Oswin, which might make her more likeable (although personally speaking I adore her nearly as much as the Doctor does.)
Any companion from Adric onwards in the 80s is far worse than Clara! Most couldn't act for toffee!
You know, I am trying to come up with an example which contradicts your sweeping statement, but I cannot at the moment. I think that you may be right. LOL!
Any companion from Adric onwards in the 80s is far worse than Clara! Most couldn't act for toffee!
I would disagree on that point.
Its easy to be critical in retrospect, but I think its important to remember how individual companions or stories were enjoyed at the time of transmission.
There wasn't a single companion from the 80s where I found myself counting the days before they left. I enjoyed them all while they were actually in the show, and was always sad when they reached their final story.
Its quite a new thing for me to fall out of love with a companion during their tenure and actually want them to leave. But its happened with the past two!
Its easy to be critical in retrospect, but I think its important to remember how individual companions or stories were enjoyed at the time of transmission.
There wasn't a single companion from the 80s where I found myself counting the days before they left. I enjoyed them all while they were actually in the show, and was always sad when they reached their final story.
Its quite a new thing for me to fall out of love with a companion during their tenure and actually want them to leave. But its happened with the past two!
You make a good point Mulett, it's very easy to simply go along with what has become the accepted 'facts' about the past of the show. Stories that were very popular at the time are now sometimes hated, and vice versa. eg: the Graham Wiliams era is often ridiculed now, although it was very popular at the time.
However, I find it hard to agree with your assessment of all the 80s companions.
I was delighted when Mel left, I simply couldn't stand her (although oddly, now, I find she's not as annoying as I found her to be back in 1987).
And Adric - I couldn't wait for him to leave. A dreadful actor, annoying character, terribly portrayed. Unlike Mel, I still find Adric to be cringeworthy today...
Sarah Sutton's Nyssa I found to be more acceptable, not because she was a better actor than Matthew Waterhouse - she was just as wooden - but mainly because I was a teenage boy and she was extremely pretty... ;-)
the Graham Wiliams era is often ridiculed now, although it was very popular at the time.
I sometimes feel that its when the show is popular that some fans are less happy
The problem also is that, apart from the Doctor Who Monthly letters page, it was very difficult back in the 70s and 80s to get a feel for what viewers/fans were feeling.
I didn't read endless criticisms of the companions in the press or in Doctor Who/sci-fi related magazines. Even this "wasn't Adric awful" stuff seems fairly new to me, as are the criticisms about Sarah Sutton's acting ability.
But, again, we didn't have Twitter or Facebook at the time so perhaps those views would have been more obvious back in the 70s and 80s if we had. Or maybe it is all just retrospect.
Even if I liked Clara I'd think it was time for someone new. I find one problem with "new" series companions is they seem to outstay their welcome a bit, hanging around for quite a while after it would have been a good time to bring in someone new and different to refresh the show.
Back to the worst companion ever thing, I think when it comes to the entire lot of Who the very worst is Adric. I didn't mind Clara too much when she was with the Eleventh Doctor and she was fantastic in her incarnations as a Dalek and a Victorian girl. I think she just didn't fit with Twelve in series eight and I am really sick of Moffat's insistence that being a strong female character means you have to yell at, slap and generally act superior to the male character. As someone pointed out Sarah Jane was a strong female character but she was nothing like that and I could name a dozen strong female charcters in media and literature who I love off the top of my head who don't behave in a borderline abusive way to their so-called friends.
I worry about what message it may send out that a woman slapping a bloke is hilarious too.
Even if I liked Clara I'd think it was time for someone new. I find one problem with "new" series companions is they seem to outstay their welcome a bit, hanging around for quite a while after it would have been a good time to bring in someone new and different to refresh the show.
.
That's where I differ. One of the few criticisms I can say of the RTD era is that I got a bit fed up with the whole changing cast every single series, and 3 companions over the course of 4 series. Back then I hoped one might stick around for a while to actually get to know them even better, plus having a companion for only one series seemed too neat and tidy and as such a little unrealistic. I thought Amy and Rory stayed just about the right amount of time to the point where just when I was starting to get a little bored with them, that was when the decision was made for them to go.
I dislike Clara as a companion and can't wait to see the back of her as soon as possible, but as for companions in general, if they are good, it's nice to have them for at least 2 series.
That is a bit of a odd thing to say when you think of Ace. Tegan was also a great companion than toffee nosed Clara.
Sophie Aldred was a terrible actress. CBBC acting at its worst. Janet Fielding was marginally better. Hardly any of the actors/actresses who were companions had any real success after Who. Probably Bonnie Langford is the exception! Don't get me wrong I don't want to be disrespectful and they will always be part of Who history.
I like Clara I'd rate her as the one of the best companions of the new series but its all personal preference. I think the only companion I'd didn't really like was Amy but I'd probably agree Martha didn't have much chemistry with Tennant. I think if I'd lost someone I'd loved and had access to a time machine I think Clara's actions are pretty understandable. Hey ho its all personal preference. I'm happy she's staying
I don't see why people get so annoyed over the slapping thing its just to add a bit of comedy. Borderline abusive is a complete overreaction to a couple of slaps. TV world relationships and real world relationships are too different things. I'm pretty sure the time she slapped him he was being a part.
But how dare she as a mere woman could even consider herself superior to a male >grin<
Sophie Aldred was a terrible actress. CBBC acting at its worst. Janet Fielding was marginally better. Hardly any of the actors/actresses who were companions had any real success after Who. Probably Bonnie Langford is the exception! Don't get me wrong I don't want to be disrespectful and they will always be part of Who history.
I'm talking about the 80s companions before anyone has a go at me!
I have to agree I lived ace growing up watching dw she was so different from the previous companions. To be fair I still enjoy her when I watch my DVD"s. She's wicked
Comments
History is made! For once saladfingers81 takes a break from abusing other forum members and licking SM's a**e and actually makes a valid point.
It's a bit disconcerting that you struggle to tell the difference between "strong female character" and "abusive female character".
Donna was an overbearing and loudmouthed oaf. That does not make her a strong woman. It simply makes her annoying. Notice that she was not on my strong woman list.
As for Rose, she didn't move mountains, she literally moved universes just to see The Doctor again. She led the resistance (so did Martha Jones, which is why she is on my list of strong women from Doctor Who) and she fought back until she made it into this universe to save The Doctor, Donna and our entire world.
How in the world is Clara a strong woman to you? Is it because she emotionally abuses people? Is it because she is willing to stab her friends in the back in a fit of pique (the volcano)? Is it because she could run around the entire universe having adventures but would rather date a school teacher? Is it because she lies to the school teacher to whom she is dating?
While your mileage may vary (I am sure that we all have our differing ideas of what makes a strong woman), I just can't see her as one.
She has a dad and gran she loves and a step mum she doesn't like as family. Don't know if we see much of them this year
Clara might get a very bad shock before she finally leaves the Tardis. Can the Doctor really offer her what she needs and protect her ?.
Are you actually for real? I don't care what your or anyone's opinion on a fictional character is. Even a little bit. I was just taking the piss. Get a grip.
Without a smilie or some other indication, it is nigh impossible to discern this from the written word. You shouldn't become perturbed at somebody else who cannot read your mind when you give them no hints at all.
I thought Jenna was brilliant in Asylum of the Daleks, and in The Snowmen too. But then it all went to pot.
The difference is that whilst RTD realised he'd written Martha into a corner and so allowed for an early but graceful exit, the current team seems to think that if they just keep chucking more Clara at us she'll eventually work.
If Clara was going to gel with the audience I think she would have gelled during season 8. I honestly don't think she did.
I honestly want to LOVE Clara because I actually really love Jenna but the longer she has stayed in the show, the less I've enjoyed her.
Forgive me. I was under the impression no one could possibly take this conversation that seriously.
I was wrong. Here's a smiley.
Any companion from Adric onwards in the 80s is far worse than Clara! Most couldn't act for toffee!
You know, I am trying to come up with an example which contradicts your sweeping statement, but I cannot at the moment. I think that you may be right. LOL!
I would disagree on that point.
Its easy to be critical in retrospect, but I think its important to remember how individual companions or stories were enjoyed at the time of transmission.
There wasn't a single companion from the 80s where I found myself counting the days before they left. I enjoyed them all while they were actually in the show, and was always sad when they reached their final story.
Its quite a new thing for me to fall out of love with a companion during their tenure and actually want them to leave. But its happened with the past two!
You make a good point Mulett, it's very easy to simply go along with what has become the accepted 'facts' about the past of the show. Stories that were very popular at the time are now sometimes hated, and vice versa. eg: the Graham Wiliams era is often ridiculed now, although it was very popular at the time.
However, I find it hard to agree with your assessment of all the 80s companions.
I was delighted when Mel left, I simply couldn't stand her (although oddly, now, I find she's not as annoying as I found her to be back in 1987).
And Adric - I couldn't wait for him to leave. A dreadful actor, annoying character, terribly portrayed. Unlike Mel, I still find Adric to be cringeworthy today...
Sarah Sutton's Nyssa I found to be more acceptable, not because she was a better actor than Matthew Waterhouse - she was just as wooden - but mainly because I was a teenage boy and she was extremely pretty... ;-)
I sometimes feel that its when the show is popular that some fans are less happy
The problem also is that, apart from the Doctor Who Monthly letters page, it was very difficult back in the 70s and 80s to get a feel for what viewers/fans were feeling.
I didn't read endless criticisms of the companions in the press or in Doctor Who/sci-fi related magazines. Even this "wasn't Adric awful" stuff seems fairly new to me, as are the criticisms about Sarah Sutton's acting ability.
But, again, we didn't have Twitter or Facebook at the time so perhaps those views would have been more obvious back in the 70s and 80s if we had. Or maybe it is all just retrospect.
Even if I liked Clara I'd think it was time for someone new. I find one problem with "new" series companions is they seem to outstay their welcome a bit, hanging around for quite a while after it would have been a good time to bring in someone new and different to refresh the show.
Back to the worst companion ever thing, I think when it comes to the entire lot of Who the very worst is Adric. I didn't mind Clara too much when she was with the Eleventh Doctor and she was fantastic in her incarnations as a Dalek and a Victorian girl. I think she just didn't fit with Twelve in series eight and I am really sick of Moffat's insistence that being a strong female character means you have to yell at, slap and generally act superior to the male character. As someone pointed out Sarah Jane was a strong female character but she was nothing like that and I could name a dozen strong female charcters in media and literature who I love off the top of my head who don't behave in a borderline abusive way to their so-called friends.
I worry about what message it may send out that a woman slapping a bloke is hilarious too.
That is a bit of a odd thing to say when you think of Ace. Tegan was also a great companion than toffee nosed Clara.
That's where I differ. One of the few criticisms I can say of the RTD era is that I got a bit fed up with the whole changing cast every single series, and 3 companions over the course of 4 series. Back then I hoped one might stick around for a while to actually get to know them even better, plus having a companion for only one series seemed too neat and tidy and as such a little unrealistic. I thought Amy and Rory stayed just about the right amount of time to the point where just when I was starting to get a little bored with them, that was when the decision was made for them to go.
I dislike Clara as a companion and can't wait to see the back of her as soon as possible, but as for companions in general, if they are good, it's nice to have them for at least 2 series.
Sophie Aldred was a terrible actress. CBBC acting at its worst. Janet Fielding was marginally better. Hardly any of the actors/actresses who were companions had any real success after Who. Probably Bonnie Langford is the exception! Don't get me wrong I don't want to be disrespectful and they will always be part of Who history.
But how dare she as a mere woman could even consider herself superior to a male >grin<
I think it's spot-on, personally.
I'm talking about the 80s companions before anyone has a go at me!
Still wrong though, as Ace is one of the best companions ever.