Whilst I don't think the end is anywhere near, I am concerned about the prospect of any union thinking that it can hold the party to ransom over the choice of leader. I hoped that that type of dinosaur was extinct!
You may consider the Tories pretty far to the right but the English voters do not agree with you.
People want low taxes, benefits cut, an EU referendum and they trust the Tories with the NHS.
The people voted against increased taxes, more benefits and no EU referendum.
Welcome to England in 2015.
Your first sentence makes no sense. You state the voters voted for the Conservatives as a far right party, by your own logic all that does is make the voters far right......
The centre ground between left and right is a fixed point.
and that's before we get to the reality of less than 1/4 of the electorate voting for the Conservatives and only 37% of those who did vote voting for the Conservatives.
The problem is that Labour have not moved to the left. That is why people abandoned them for the SNP, Greens and even UKIP.
They are still a Tory-lite party advocating spending cuts whilst doing nothing to help the low-paid with a commitment to build affordable housing, re-nationalising certain essential industries such as transport and utilities.
All they have done to pretend to be left-wing is to moan about tax evasion and tax avoidance and guess what even the Tories are making moves to curb the execesses of that.
They lost because the left has abandoned them not because they have become left.
I'm getting a sense of Déjà vu seeing statements like this - the same thing was said in 1983 and while this country has not elected a left wing government with a significant majority since 1966 - Labour will come back.
Really? I don't recall Scots Nationalists wiping out Labour and a large union organisation threatening to break away from the party.
Really? I don't recall Scots Nationalists wiping out Labour and a large union organisation threatening to break away from the party.
No but a lot of people were saying that Labour would never again be a majority government - in 1997 it was, although Labour moved to the right to get elected.
No but a lot of people were saying that Labour would never again be a majority government - in 1997 it was, although Labour moved to the right to get elected.
You think Labour are in a similar situation now as they were then? OK.
I think the better comparison is to use the state of the Conservative Party in 2003. I remember seeing headlines about donors jumping ship and the party fading forever. Yet 7 years later they got back into government and 12 years later they got a majority. Labour have nowhere near as far to climb back as the Tories did in 1997 but with possible boundary changes afoot and the continuation of fixed term parliament they may find the road back too difficult in a single parliament.
Cameron and Osborne are sat in the centre ground. It is they who are sticking up for the workers.
What is a new centre labour leader going to offer the electorate? More tax cuts, an 8 day a week NHS, another ballot on Europe?
There is no centre ground for Labour to stand on!
That is to the biggest load of nonsense i have ever heard. Cameron and Osbourne don't stick up for ordinary workers at all! It wouldn't be so bad if they actually were one nation Tories! But they just Thatcherites through and through.
You think Labour are in a similar situation now as they were then? OK.
No I don't - just remarking that prophecies of the death of the Labour Party have been heard before and were just as inaccurate as the statements now.
Socialism may be on it's way out - but that is not the same thing as the Labour Party and that has been the case for over two decades now.
There is still a need for the poor, the disenchanted to have a voice in parliament - Labour needs to find a way of supporting these people without either chasing the same votes as the Conservatives or going back on the old socialist answers - which really have not helped in the long term.
No I don't - just remarking that prophecies of the death of the Labour Party have been heard before and were just as inaccurate as the statements now.
Socialism may be on it's way out - but that is not the same thing as the Labour Party and that has been the case for over two decades now.
There is still a need for the poor, the disenchanted to have a voice in parliament - Labour needs to find a way of supporting these people without either chasing the same votes as the Conservatives or going back on the old socialist answers - which really have not helped in the long term.
One of the wisest things I've read on here for a while.
No leader and their banker threatening to pull the pull the plug unless they choose another Left wing leader - That is what you call up shit creek without a paddle
The no leader thing is permanent you think? I get the impression it happens quite often to a lot of parties... but if you insist it's just a Labour thing then it must be an issue
There is still a need for the poor, the disenchanted to have a voice in parliament
And the SNP have similar policies to fulfill those needs. That's 50+ seats less for Labour in the next election. This is far different from what's happened to Labour in the past.
The no leader thing is permanent you think? I get the impression it happens quite often to a lot of parties... but if you insist it's just a Labour thing then it must be an issue
Rejected by the British public the Labour party now has two choices; choose a leader who the Unions would like or choose a leader who the public might like.
England is not going to vote for a Unite Lacky and Unite are not going to fund a New Labour leader.
It's as good as all over for Labour.
It could be a good thing if the Unions were ditched if people believe Unions are dictating to the party.
Labour could benefit from more private donations if the unions were out of the picture
It could be a good thing if the Unions were ditched if people believe Unions are dictating to the party.
Labour could benefit from more private donations if the unions were out of the picture
Any political party that relies on private donations is going to be very strapped for cash.
There are a lot of people who would argue that Blair's government was NOT left wing and indeed many of the economic policies were right wing (such as continuing PFI)
Well I would agree but the contention was that Labour are finished. Personally I think a proper party of the left is doomed and Labours move to the centre is probably a sensible one.
Unite are not the party, they contribute and are affiliated with it. Not the same thing. It will be interesting to see how long it takes the Tories before they start stabbing each other in the back. They have form for it you know.
And the SNP have similar policies to fulfill those needs. That's 50+ seats less for Labour in the next election. This is far different from what's happened to Labour in the past.
The SNP will lose their lead in Scotland at the next election.
It will be interesting to see how long it takes the Tories before they start stabbing each other in the back. They have form for it you know.
Nice bit of whataboutery but aren't you overlooking that fact that everyone of Labour's leadership contenders was quick to knife Ed Miliband and his policies after the General Election.
Let's not forget all these people supported Ed policies up until about 7am on 8th May
Well I would agree but the contention was that Labour are finished. Personally I think a proper party of the left is doomed and Labours move to the centre is probably a sensible one.
That is because you are confusing being left wing and being socialist.
Socialism is only a form of left wing policies.
A better definition of left/right is ordinary people/establishment.
Capitalism in it's original incarnation was left wing!
Comments
You may consider the Tories pretty far to the right but the English voters do not agree with you.
People want low taxes, benefits cut, an EU referendum and they trust the Tories with the NHS.
The people voted against increased taxes, more benefits and no EU referendum.
Welcome to England in 2015.
Your first sentence makes no sense. You state the voters voted for the Conservatives as a far right party, by your own logic all that does is make the voters far right......
The centre ground between left and right is a fixed point.
and that's before we get to the reality of less than 1/4 of the electorate voting for the Conservatives and only 37% of those who did vote voting for the Conservatives.
for the love of god.
THE CENTRE GROUND DOESN'T MOVE!
Stop believing the propaganda that says it does.
They are still a Tory-lite party advocating spending cuts whilst doing nothing to help the low-paid with a commitment to build affordable housing, re-nationalising certain essential industries such as transport and utilities.
All they have done to pretend to be left-wing is to moan about tax evasion and tax avoidance and guess what even the Tories are making moves to curb the execesses of that.
They lost because the left has abandoned them not because they have become left.
No but a lot of people were saying that Labour would never again be a majority government - in 1997 it was, although Labour moved to the right to get elected.
No I don't - just remarking that prophecies of the death of the Labour Party have been heard before and were just as inaccurate as the statements now.
Socialism may be on it's way out - but that is not the same thing as the Labour Party and that has been the case for over two decades now.
There is still a need for the poor, the disenchanted to have a voice in parliament - Labour needs to find a way of supporting these people without either chasing the same votes as the Conservatives or going back on the old socialist answers - which really have not helped in the long term.
One of the wisest things I've read on here for a while.
The no leader thing is permanent you think? I get the impression it happens quite often to a lot of parties... but if you insist it's just a Labour thing then it must be an issue
The party is split in two.
The Unite fraction want to go to the Left.
The MPs who want power want to go to the Right.
No leader can unite them.
It could be a good thing if the Unions were ditched if people believe Unions are dictating to the party.
Labour could benefit from more private donations if the unions were out of the picture
Any political party that relies on private donations is going to be very strapped for cash.
Oh well if you say so... Tories forever then. Congrats to them.
Well I would agree but the contention was that Labour are finished. Personally I think a proper party of the left is doomed and Labours move to the centre is probably a sensible one.
Unite are not the party, they contribute and are affiliated with it. Not the same thing. It will be interesting to see how long it takes the Tories before they start stabbing each other in the back. They have form for it you know.
The SNP will lose their lead in Scotland at the next election.
Osborne stated last week that he was a center right politician which is only slightly left of Attila the Hun.
You must have heard the saying "He who pays the piper calls the tune."
Unite's General Secretary has made it crystal clear. If labour does not choose the correct leader they will stop funding the party.
Nice bit of whataboutery but aren't you overlooking that fact that everyone of Labour's leadership contenders was quick to knife Ed Miliband and his policies after the General Election.
Let's not forget all these people supported Ed policies up until about 7am on 8th May
That is because you are confusing being left wing and being socialist.
Socialism is only a form of left wing policies.
A better definition of left/right is ordinary people/establishment.
Capitalism in it's original incarnation was left wing!