Interesting, the intensity of the arguments around # of tuners. It doesn't really need much in the way of research. (And of course, Virgin wouldn't be putting 4 tuners into its boxes if they didn't perceive it as cost-effective).
Consumers want choice, and ease of use. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has quite often walked out of the room while watching a live programme, only to come back and subsequently discover that there was a clash when 2 concurrent recordings came on... and we lost one of our planned recordings.
On-Demand is not everyone's cup of tea, and full of frustrations if you're faced with a range of suppliers each with their walled-gardens. It also potentially gets viewers into broadband hassles. And don't forget that we are a LONG way from getting to nationwide access of decent broadband speeds (and even longer if lots start depending on broadband for significant chunks of what they want to watch).
+1 channels are a very inefficient way of providing extra opportunities to record a programme. And HD+1 channels are even more so (not cost-effective) - especially given that so many viewers are still apparently not too fussed about watching HD at all.
The next generation of boxes probably has to be designed with a number of technical features that are not hugely important to consumers, but which will pave the way to a phasing out of the millions of obsolete boxes that lock Sky (and broadcasters) into unnecessarily expensive transmission costs. Also to allow SD/HD channels to occupy the same EPG slot.
Quite separately are the pile of desirable new user features... some of which are already discussed on this thread. It may be that there are becoming so many options and features, that Sky might have to rethink in terms of a small range of boxes with different options, and even perhaps a few plugin options (the original broadband concept was to be a plugin module, space for which was hidden behind a blank panel in earlier boxes).
There's a danger in assuming that the whole world wants to be able to use iPads, phones, game boxes or whatever, integrated with their TV - but in providing for them, installation and use too difficult for a user who just wants minor tweaking of the current interface.
...and it's maybe time for a new Remote as well.
...and of course, if/when Sky introduces a new range of STBs, it would likely reignite the arguments over Sky's (arguably illegal in EC Directive terms) restriction on the use of any non-Sky supplied boxes for accessing the Sky EPG. The EPG is a regulated service, and Sky doesn't have totally free reign to do what it wants.
Sky has the problem of, having a whole pile of legacy boxes that arguably need to be supported (or replaced free for viewers who don't want all the bells and whistles).
Interesting, the intensity of the arguments around # of tuners. It doesn't really need much in the way of research. (And of course, Virgin wouldn't be putting 4 tuners into its boxes if they didn't perceive it as cost-effective).
They don't, TiVo only records three programmes.
But the lower number of channels and lower capacity of Virgin means you don't need individual feeds per 'tuner', a single feed can carry them all.
(the original broadband concept was to be a plugin module, space for which was hidden behind a blank panel in earlier boxes).
Assuming you mean the space at the rear of old Digiboxes, it was for no such thing - it was a PCMIA slot for an interface to feed a digital VCR. But Digital VCR's never happened, so the concept was dropped.
Interesting, the intensity of the arguments around # of tuners. It doesn't really need much in the way of research. (And of course, Virgin wouldn't be putting 4 tuners into its boxes if they didn't perceive it as cost-effective).
Cable, and Frreview, all the channnels can come down 1 cable. Unfortunately, that is not possible with the current Satellite setup, the LNB can be in 1 of 4 states, with each state giving about a quarter of the channels available.
If you were recording something that put the LNB in state 1, from the same cable, you could then only tune into any other channel using that same state, so 75% of the channels become unavailable. With 2 cables, 2 different states, but still would leave 50% of the channels unavailable.
Therefore, until they redesign the boxes with a master box, connected to the LNB with a single fibre cable, possible of carrying all the states, then sub boxes connected to the master box, maybe via networking, then i can't see it happening.
And on demand isnt a true solution for recording clashes - on demand showing isnt always available and the clash may not be noticed for a while - after on demand has ended.
Use the Sky+ app for clash management. I make a point of firing it up every evening just in case a series link is causing a potential clash.
I've not found a clash it hasn't been able to resolve so far.
Use the Sky+ app for clash management. I make a point of firing it up every evening just in case a series link is causing a potential clash.
I've not found a clash it hasn't been able to resolve so far.
Yes, I've taken to doing the same thing. There are just so many clashes that I'd miss half my recordings otherwise.
On demand is good, but you have to remember the list of programmes you need to download. If they added series link for on demand it would become a lot more useable.
Only a tiny number of people seem to want more tuners - and no doubt wouldn't be prepared to pay a considerable price premium in order to do so - so it's NOT going to happen.
There's also the added 'disadvantage' to Sky that it doesn't help them in any way whatsoever, so again it's NOT going to happen.
If you really want 4 tuners (presumably because you're not capable of recording from +1 channels or catch-up?), then two PVR's on a multiroom subscription using planner sharing (when it starts) would do the job easier and more efficiently, and make Sky a little as well.
Or if you record a lot of the freeview channels like I do we have a freesat hdr as well as the sky box. All freeview stuff is recorded on the Humax.
Although I have had times even with this set up that I needed extra tuners but luckily the programmes required on sky were repeated later on in the early hours.
Or if you record a lot of the freeview channels like I do we have a freesat hdr as well as the sky box. All freeview stuff is recorded on the Humax.
Although I have had times even with this set up that I needed extra tuners but luckily the programmes required on sky were repeated later on in the early hours.
So you've already got 4 tuners, plus the ability to watch live - so that's five!! - and it's not enough.
Just shows how crazy the desire for four tuners is
Although I don't know when or where you find a clash with more than five programmes :eek:
But Sky 'will' have that covered, three multi-room PVR's and planner sharing - six tuners, record up to six satellite channels, plus your two Freeview ones, and live Freeview.
So you've already got 4 tuners, plus the ability to watch live - so that's five!! - and it's not enough.
Just shows how crazy the desire for four tuners is
Although I don't know when or where you find a clash with more than five programmes :eek:
But Sky 'will' have that covered, three multi-room PVR's and planner sharing - six tuners, record up to six satellite channels, plus your two Freeview ones, and live Freeview.
Would nine be enough for you?
Sarcasm much?.. Just because you don't see a need for more tuners doesn't mean others don't, for example, in the states their TiVo now come with four tuners, so there IS a market out there for more, and thirty pound a month for additional boxes is a ridiculous suggestion IMO
What system is used in the USA for satellite ? DirecTV have a STB called Genie which can record 5 shows at once and Dish Network have a STB called Hopper which can record 6.
What system is used in the USA for satellite ? DirecTV have a STB called Genie which can record 5 shows at once and Dish Network have a STB called Hopper which can record 6.
It's the same system, but the boxes must have four feeds.
With four feeds (Horizontal Low, Horizontal High, Vertical Low, and Vertical High) everything can be accessed at all times.
You need the corresponding number of tuners though to receive 5 or 6 channels at once with complete flexibility.
If some of the channels are on the same transponder you don't need a separate tuner for each one and can tune in to more channels than you have tuners.
Sky boxes don't allow this but many non-Sky satellite receivers do.
It's the same system, but the boxes must have four feeds.
With four feeds (Horizontal Low, Horizontal High, Vertical Low, and Vertical High) everything can be accessed at all times.
You need the corresponding number of tuners though to receive 5 or 6 channels at once with complete flexibility.
If some of the channels are on the same transponder you don't need a separate tuner for each one and can tune in to more channels than you have tuners.
Sky boxes don't allow this but many non-Sky satellite receivers do.
After reading if you have the Genie box with a single wire multiswitch and an SWM dish you only need one coax , however I haven't a clue what all that means.
Comments
BBC Iplayer on YouView Boxes already do this; 4oD coming soon with ONdemand series links.
sorry just checked now. they also now do this.
Consumers want choice, and ease of use. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has quite often walked out of the room while watching a live programme, only to come back and subsequently discover that there was a clash when 2 concurrent recordings came on... and we lost one of our planned recordings.
On-Demand is not everyone's cup of tea, and full of frustrations if you're faced with a range of suppliers each with their walled-gardens. It also potentially gets viewers into broadband hassles. And don't forget that we are a LONG way from getting to nationwide access of decent broadband speeds (and even longer if lots start depending on broadband for significant chunks of what they want to watch).
+1 channels are a very inefficient way of providing extra opportunities to record a programme. And HD+1 channels are even more so (not cost-effective) - especially given that so many viewers are still apparently not too fussed about watching HD at all.
The next generation of boxes probably has to be designed with a number of technical features that are not hugely important to consumers, but which will pave the way to a phasing out of the millions of obsolete boxes that lock Sky (and broadcasters) into unnecessarily expensive transmission costs. Also to allow SD/HD channels to occupy the same EPG slot.
Quite separately are the pile of desirable new user features... some of which are already discussed on this thread. It may be that there are becoming so many options and features, that Sky might have to rethink in terms of a small range of boxes with different options, and even perhaps a few plugin options (the original broadband concept was to be a plugin module, space for which was hidden behind a blank panel in earlier boxes).
There's a danger in assuming that the whole world wants to be able to use iPads, phones, game boxes or whatever, integrated with their TV - but in providing for them, installation and use too difficult for a user who just wants minor tweaking of the current interface.
...and it's maybe time for a new Remote as well.
...and of course, if/when Sky introduces a new range of STBs, it would likely reignite the arguments over Sky's (arguably illegal in EC Directive terms) restriction on the use of any non-Sky supplied boxes for accessing the Sky EPG. The EPG is a regulated service, and Sky doesn't have totally free reign to do what it wants.
Sky has the problem of, having a whole pile of legacy boxes that arguably need to be supported (or replaced free for viewers who don't want all the bells and whistles).
Fun times ahead discussing all this.....
So you don't like to hear the honest truth?
Feel free to live in your own little fairy land
They don't, TiVo only records three programmes.
But the lower number of channels and lower capacity of Virgin means you don't need individual feeds per 'tuner', a single feed can carry them all.
Assuming you mean the space at the rear of old Digiboxes, it was for no such thing - it was a PCMIA slot for an interface to feed a digital VCR. But Digital VCR's never happened, so the concept was dropped.
Cable, and Frreview, all the channnels can come down 1 cable. Unfortunately, that is not possible with the current Satellite setup, the LNB can be in 1 of 4 states, with each state giving about a quarter of the channels available.
If you were recording something that put the LNB in state 1, from the same cable, you could then only tune into any other channel using that same state, so 75% of the channels become unavailable. With 2 cables, 2 different states, but still would leave 50% of the channels unavailable.
Therefore, until they redesign the boxes with a master box, connected to the LNB with a single fibre cable, possible of carrying all the states, then sub boxes connected to the master box, maybe via networking, then i can't see it happening.
Use the Sky+ app for clash management. I make a point of firing it up every evening just in case a series link is causing a potential clash.
I've not found a clash it hasn't been able to resolve so far.
Yes, I've taken to doing the same thing. There are just so many clashes that I'd miss half my recordings otherwise.
On demand is good, but you have to remember the list of programmes you need to download. If they added series link for on demand it would become a lot more useable.
Or if you record a lot of the freeview channels like I do we have a freesat hdr as well as the sky box. All freeview stuff is recorded on the Humax.
Although I have had times even with this set up that I needed extra tuners but luckily the programmes required on sky were repeated later on in the early hours.
Marina
So you've already got 4 tuners, plus the ability to watch live - so that's five!! - and it's not enough.
Just shows how crazy the desire for four tuners is
Although I don't know when or where you find a clash with more than five programmes :eek:
But Sky 'will' have that covered, three multi-room PVR's and planner sharing - six tuners, record up to six satellite channels, plus your two Freeview ones, and live Freeview.
Would nine be enough for you?
With four feeds (Horizontal Low, Horizontal High, Vertical Low, and Vertical High) everything can be accessed at all times.
You need the corresponding number of tuners though to receive 5 or 6 channels at once with complete flexibility.
If some of the channels are on the same transponder you don't need a separate tuner for each one and can tune in to more channels than you have tuners.
Sky boxes don't allow this but many non-Sky satellite receivers do.