Cameron and his speech yesterday said you would need passports to go to Scotland or vice versa. Border checkpoints at Gretna. You need a passport to go to France which is in the EU. When leaving the EU, Scotland would not be in the EU you will need a passport as per EU law.
That's Cameron and Miliband who have both said there would have to be passport control checkpoints, with guards along the border if the SNP get a yes win.
Not true.This hasnt been the case with Ireland since the late 1940s which predates the EU.
So Cameron saying you will need passports to go or come from Scotland is lying?
What has Eire got to do with it? Just because an agreement signed with Eire does not automatically pass on to Scotland. Scotland could do a deal with Eire over free access.
For many years going between the USA and Canada only relied on the showing of a drivers licence. Today you need a passport. This statement is just as relevent as yours for Eire which is in the EU and Scotland may find it is not.
That's Cameron and Miliband who have both said there would have to be passport control checkpoints, with guards along the border if the SNP get a yes win.
Well Cameron did not mention guards. I think they will be immigration officers. you may even get a stamp in your Scottish passport and allowed entry into rUK for up to 3 months without a visa!
So Cameron saying you will need passports to go or come from Scotland is lying?
What has Eire got to do with it? Just because an agreement signed with Eire does not automatically pass on to Scotland. Scotland could do a deal with Eire over free access.
For many years going between the USA and Canada only relied on the showing of a drivers licence. Today you need a passport. This statement is just as relevent as yours for Eire which is in the EU and Scotland may find it is not.
It would also mean Miliband is lying about it too.
Border control will be needed then for NI/Eire and England/Scotland.
As with France/Switzerland.
Well in 2016 Scotland will not be in the EU. rUK will so border controls will be necessary.
If rUK in 2017 votes to leave EU and Scotland gets back in EU we will still need border controls!
So if Scotland due to devaluations of its currency (whatever that is) ends up supplying petrol at 30p per litre less than the rUK. Can you see the queues of Carlisle residents at Grena filling up with no border control!
You are rather presuming that the electorate of the rUK would vote to incur the considerable expense and hassle of erecting border controls on the rUK/Scotland and the rUK/RoIreland borders.
Personally I would suspect such a potential bill would only make it more likely the rUK remain in the EU...
Well in 2016 Scotland will not be in the EU. rUK will so border controls will be necessary.
If rUK in 2017 votes to leave EU and Scotland gets back in EU we will still need border controls!
Yes. I think that's quite possible.
2016 - Scotland non-EU England EU (Controls needed)
2017 - Scotland non-EU England non-EU (Not strictly necessary)
Later - 2018? - Scotland EU England non-EU (Controls needed)
There are no border or passport controls between NI and the Republic - why would there be on mainland Britain?
Scotland would have to negotiate entry to the Common Travel Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area) with the UK and Irish governments and involves cooperation over security and immigration matters. With all of the other treaties which will need agreeing, nothing is going to be rubber stamped. Border controls would hurt Scotland much more than England.
The Common Travel Area has nothing to do with the EU. The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are in the CTA but not in the EU. I recently flew back from Jersey and while I didn't have to show any passport or ID as I was remaining in the CTA, I could buy proper duty free as I was flying from outside of the EU.
One advantage of a EU border between Scotland and England or NI and the ROI would be lots of opportunities for duty free shopping.
Well Cameron did not mention guards. I think they will be immigration officers. you may even get a stamp in your Scottish passport and allowed entry into rUK for up to 3 months without a visa!
Miliband has though -
"Ed Miliband raises prospect of guards along the border if Scotland votes 'Yes' in referendum"
You are rather presuming that the electorate of the rUK would vote to incur the considerable expense and hassle of erecting border controls on the rUK/Scotland and the rUK/RoIreland borders.
Personally I would suspect such a potential bill would only make it more likely the rUK remain in the EU...
Why are you bringing Eire into this discussion. It would just be the border with Scotland. You will need control just like I have mentioned with petrol above.
Scotland would also need to erect border posts! Goods could be cheaper in rUK than Scotland.
we have a common travel area which will continue, no passports required to go to Ireland, Isle of Man etc from UK remember & there is no mechanism to boot Scottish EU citizens out of EU
What's a "Scottish EU citizen"? I'm English, but I certainly don't regard myself as an 'English EU citizen'.
I do laugh when you Scots say this...
So it isn't the SNP vision that is sold in the White Paper?
The SNP aren't the party that will be in power and doing the negotiation?
It doesn't matter whether the person voting for Independence votes for the SNP, this is THEIR vision of Independence no matter how much you claim otherwise...
Exactly because the thing about the SNP, its leader and the Yes camp is that they are all wanting the - Independence.
Cameron and his speech yesterday said you would need passports to go to Scotland or vice versa. Border checkpoints at Gretna. You need a passport to go to France which is in the EU. When leaving the EU, Scotland would not be in the EU you will need a passport as per EU law.
we have a common travel area which will continue, no passports required to go to Ireland, Isle of Man etc from UK remember & there is no mechanism to boot Scottish EU citizens out of EU
There's many silly snipes on this thread, so I'll try and bring some sense to it.
The Common Travel Arrangement is between the UK and Ireland, who reached agreement that the different immigration policies of the two countries are compatible. The SNP, in their White Paper, say that means that though they'll an immigration policy different to either, the precedent mentioned above means they'll have automatic membership of the CTA, so no border controls.
That's a farcical argument. SNP immigration policy is very different from the UK and Ireland, so we can only speculate on whether Scotland's policy would be acceptable to them. If not, there will be border controls. So despite the SNP assuring Scottish people that "under no circumstances" would they accept border controls between Scotland and the UK, if Westminster imposes them there's damn all the SNP can do about it. We control our countries borders, not a foreign country, which is what Scotland will be if it leaves the UK. And the Irish may impose controls as well.
So Miliband is a speaker of falsehoods as well.
What do you base your assumptions on to say they a lying.
Is it Scotland thinking they can tell rUK what it can or cannot do after independence!
That's a farcical argument. SNP immigration policy is very different from the UK and Ireland, so we can only speculate on whether Scotland's policy would be acceptable to them. If not, there will be border controls. So despite the SNP assuring Scottish people that "under no circumstances" would they accept border controls between Scotland and the UK, if Westminster imposes them there's damn all the SNP can do about it. We control our countries borders, not a foreign country, which is what Scotland will be if it leaves the UK. And the Irish may impose controls as well.
Quite right. The UK used to impose border controls between Northern Ireland and the Republic during the Troubles and that was when both countries were members of the EU and the CTA. I remember it well - it was quite strange (but reassuring) to go through a checkpoint manned by your own country's army. As long as the security is on sovereign territory, there's nothing another country can do about it.
There's many silly snipes on this thread, so I'll try and bring some sense to it.
The Common Travel Arrangement is between the UK and Ireland, who reached agreement that the different immigration policies of the two countries are compatible. The SNP, in their White Paper, say that means that though they'll an immigration policy different to either, the precedent mentioned above means they'll have automatic membership of the CTA, so no border controls.
That's a farcical argument. SNP immigration policy is very different from the UK and Ireland, so we can only speculate on whether Scotland's policy would be acceptable to them. If not, there will be border controls. So despite the SNP assuring Scottish people that "under no circumstances" would they accept border controls between Scotland and the UK, if Westminster imposes them there's damn all the SNP can do about it. We control our countries borders, not a foreign country, which is what Scotland will be if it leaves the UK. And the Irish may impose controls as well.
If the rUK leaves the EU, then the rUK/RoIreland border is an external EU frontier and would require Schengen levels of border control (in the absence of a re-write of EU laws to give an exemption). The same would apply on a rUK/Scotland border were Scotland in the EU.
If the rUK leaves the EU, then the rUK/RoIreland border is an external EU frontier and would require Schengen levels of border control (in the absence of a re-write of EU laws to give an exemption). The same would apply on a rUK/Scotland border were Scotland in the EU.
Agreed but Eire has nothing to do with Scottish Independence.
Comments
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTLpbQx3Cx8TW_VruA3va4XstZ7-iKAA7wcP_rDSKVu4qExGzwO
Here's another -
http://www.austin25.net/2006/06us/images/d4swissborder.jpg
About half a dozen guards with guns checking rucksacks and shopping trolleys.
Standard procedure.
There are no border or passport controls between NI and the Republic - why would there be on mainland Britain?
That's Cameron and Miliband who have both said there would have to be passport control checkpoints, with guards along the border if the SNP get a yes win.
So Cameron saying you will need passports to go or come from Scotland is lying?
What has Eire got to do with it? Just because an agreement signed with Eire does not automatically pass on to Scotland. Scotland could do a deal with Eire over free access.
For many years going between the USA and Canada only relied on the showing of a drivers licence. Today you need a passport. This statement is just as relevent as yours for Eire which is in the EU and Scotland may find it is not.
Because NI and Eire are both in EU.
England and NI won't be after 2017.
Border control will be needed then for NI/Eire and England/Scotland.
As with France/Switzerland.
Well Cameron did not mention guards. I think they will be immigration officers. you may even get a stamp in your Scottish passport and allowed entry into rUK for up to 3 months without a visa!
It would also mean Miliband is lying about it too.
In general there will be 18 months of transition so stop freaking out people.
Well in 2016 Scotland will not be in the EU. rUK will so border controls will be necessary.
If rUK in 2017 votes to leave EU and Scotland gets back in EU we will still need border controls!
So if Scotland due to devaluations of its currency (whatever that is) ends up supplying petrol at 30p per litre less than the rUK. Can you see the queues of Carlisle residents at Grena filling up with no border control!
They won't?
You are rather presuming that the electorate of the rUK would vote to incur the considerable expense and hassle of erecting border controls on the rUK/Scotland and the rUK/RoIreland borders.
Personally I would suspect such a potential bill would only make it more likely the rUK remain in the EU...
2016 - Scotland non-EU England EU (Controls needed)
2017 - Scotland non-EU England non-EU (Not strictly necessary)
Later - 2018? - Scotland EU England non-EU (Controls needed)
Scotland would have to negotiate entry to the Common Travel Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area) with the UK and Irish governments and involves cooperation over security and immigration matters. With all of the other treaties which will need agreeing, nothing is going to be rubber stamped. Border controls would hurt Scotland much more than England.
The Common Travel Area has nothing to do with the EU. The Channel Islands and Isle of Man are in the CTA but not in the EU. I recently flew back from Jersey and while I didn't have to show any passport or ID as I was remaining in the CTA, I could buy proper duty free as I was flying from outside of the EU.
One advantage of a EU border between Scotland and England or NI and the ROI would be lots of opportunities for duty free shopping.
Miliband has though -
"Ed Miliband raises prospect of guards along the border if Scotland votes 'Yes' in referendum"
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/scottish-independence/scottish-independence-ed-miliband-raises-prospect-of-guards-along-the-border-if-scotland-votes-yes-9716639.html
Why are you bringing Eire into this discussion. It would just be the border with Scotland. You will need control just like I have mentioned with petrol above.
Scotland would also need to erect border posts! Goods could be cheaper in rUK than Scotland.
What's a "Scottish EU citizen"? I'm English, but I certainly don't regard myself as an 'English EU citizen'.
Exactly because the thing about the SNP, its leader and the Yes camp is that they are all wanting the - Independence.
If he indeed said that then he is.a Lair.
Yes, I know he is one anyway.
There's many silly snipes on this thread, so I'll try and bring some sense to it.
The Common Travel Arrangement is between the UK and Ireland, who reached agreement that the different immigration policies of the two countries are compatible. The SNP, in their White Paper, say that means that though they'll an immigration policy different to either, the precedent mentioned above means they'll have automatic membership of the CTA, so no border controls.
That's a farcical argument. SNP immigration policy is very different from the UK and Ireland, so we can only speculate on whether Scotland's policy would be acceptable to them. If not, there will be border controls. So despite the SNP assuring Scottish people that "under no circumstances" would they accept border controls between Scotland and the UK, if Westminster imposes them there's damn all the SNP can do about it. We control our countries borders, not a foreign country, which is what Scotland will be if it leaves the UK. And the Irish may impose controls as well.
So Miliband is a speaker of falsehoods as well.
What do you base your assumptions on to say they a lying.
Is it Scotland thinking they can tell rUK what it can or cannot do after independence!
Quite right. The UK used to impose border controls between Northern Ireland and the Republic during the Troubles and that was when both countries were members of the EU and the CTA. I remember it well - it was quite strange (but reassuring) to go through a checkpoint manned by your own country's army. As long as the security is on sovereign territory, there's nothing another country can do about it.
Well said!
Ireland IS NOT part of Schengen therefore the UK is happy to allow free movement...
Scotland WILL HAVE TO ACCEPT SCHENGEN if it joins The EU which means there WILL HAVE to be a border between England & Scotland!
If the rUK leaves the EU, then the rUK/RoIreland border is an external EU frontier and would require Schengen levels of border control (in the absence of a re-write of EU laws to give an exemption). The same would apply on a rUK/Scotland border were Scotland in the EU.
Agreed but Eire has nothing to do with Scottish Independence.
For sh!ts & giggles