This whole Jimmy Saville affair has taken a disturbing turn. Now we have Lord McAlpine threatening to sue over defamation.....and rightly so as he should never have been named...and a few minor celebrities being accused of groping! The emphasis should still be how JS managed to get away with what he did for decades and the cover up by the police. Why did politicians give JS such positions of power such as his role in Broadmoor why was he given the keys to other hospitals. It's just shocking that this is all being glossed over.
Yes this still hasn't been adequately explained. pointing the finger of blame elsewhere seems to be the way they do things.
I think the people killed in the Brighton fire and the man who supposedly set the fire dying a few days later in front of a truck can reasonably be described as mysterious.
I agree most of the suicides and drug overdoses were probably suicides and drug overdoses - but at the same time those suicides and drug overdoses will at least partially be the result of their treatment at the hands of their abusers and the establishment.
There's also the one who supposedly slipped on ice on a railway bridge and fell to his death.
McAlpine's advice on dealing with the media? Spread false defeat to gain public sympathy; or false accusation and then arrange for it to be exposed as such - so the accuser will forever be treated with suspicion.
.....
I have to admit that running a word search through Google Books I can not find the precise phrase from the article mentioned in the in the book so presumably the Sydney Morning Herald journalist is paraphrasing its contents.It should also be noted that as someone earlier has mentioned the book is meant to be a discussion about how the idea in Machiavellis the Prince apply both to business and politics so the concepts may be lifted from the original 16th Century work
I.....
I agree most of the suicides and drug overdoses were probably suicides and drug overdoses - but at the same time those suicides and drug overdoses will at least partially be the result of their treatment at the hands of their abusers and the establishment.
Oh whole heartedly agree, and lets not forget the pain others still alive are possibly going through with it yet again to the fore in the media....and reporters knocking on the door trying to persuade reluctant people to talk about it.
That's why I find the 'sensitive' Scallywag interviews conducted over a pub lunch far from sensitive.
It's interesting how these things keep happening to him but not to Keith Gregory who has been just as vocal about the shot comings of the investigations & inquiries.
Keith Gregory would have fought them hence why he didn't end up a rent-boy hence why he doesn't know about that side of it as a direct eye witness only from running the support group.
The morning after he arrived at Medomsley, Young was lining up for breakfast when he was picked out of the queue by Neville Husband, the officer who ran the kitchen. Young later discovered that Husband had asked for his file – he wanted to know everything about him; most importantly, whether he had family who were likely to visit him. Young was one of a handful of new inmates sent to work in the kitchen with Husband.
"There are two things that are important to successfully sexually abuse somebody," Young says. "By successful, I mean without being prosecuted. One, anonymity or silence – if you can't carry out your act without people knowing, you're not going to be at it very long. The second thing you need is a victim who's 'reliable'; a reliable victim is someone who's already been abused to the point where, if they do speak out, who on Earth is going to believe them?
52.03 Detective Superintendent Ackerley gave evidence to the Tribunal that all these allegations were investigated by the police as they arose but that no evidence of any substance could be obtained to support them. Most of the persons named by Councillor King were seen (six of the boys had already been seen and were re-interviewed) but the "overwhelming tenor" of the replies was that no party of the kind alleged had taken place; and that many of the persons on the list were not known to each other. Councillor King told the police that he had received the list from Dean Nelson, who in turn had allegedly received it in the form of a sworn affidavit from a former Bryn Estyn resident; but, when Nelson was asked about the matter on 22 December 1992, he told Ackerley that he had never received such information about a party attended by homosexuals. As for the author of the Observer article, he did not have any evidence to substantiate either the headline or the contents of the article.
And as part of a cover up they were left lying around to be put with other evidence for the inquiry, over ten years later???
Ms Griffiths says a photo album was destroyed how did she know what it contained if she didn't look at the photos only knew what they consisted of by talking to Stephen?
Or looking at it another way he handed in the book of photos and the local police said the abusers weren't recognizable and did nothing about it.
After 20 years of being covered up the abuse in the North Wales homes got too big - because of the huge number of victims over the years - leading to the unpublished Jillings report and later the Waterhouse report around which time the book of photos were burnt to protect the reputation of the political establishment.
How difficult it must be for an abuse victim to come forward. To have to go through it all again. After being abused not only by the system, but to continue being abused.
And to have others pick your statements to bits.
But, if you have money, have had a good education, have a good lawyer you can afford to pay, it is interesting that people become wary of discussing you.
I found that paragrapgh so odd, King says one thing and Nelson says, 'not me guv'.
From that it looks like there was nothing to cover up of the nature some would like to suggest.
I thought it was odd too.
Nelson, I'd thought, definitely was on the side of the victims of abuse. I gave his Twitter ID in case people wanted to follow his tweets. (I can't stand Twitter, so I probably won't.)
Keith Gregory would have fought them hence why he didn't end up a rent-boy hence why he doesn't know about that side of it as a direct eye witness only from running the support group.
She reads out what Cooke said to his probation officer re Kenyon and Meesham fine, but when she goes onto say Stephen handed pictures over to the police are those Cookes words or what Stephen said?
Again she knows a photo album was destroyed but had she seen the contents or know details of the contains?
The point I was making was about leading up to the inquiries that Keith was as vocal as Stephen about there being prominent names involved yet he hasn't had the thugs round or mishaps?
I would think there is a locally well known individual to be named but the big London thing I'm not convinced.
She reads out what Cooke said to his probation officer re Kenyon and Meesham fine, but when she goes onto say Stephen handed pictures over to the police are those Cookes words or what Stephen said?
Again she knows a photo album was destroyed but had she seen the contents or know details of the contains?
The point I was making was about leading up to the inquiries that Keith was as vocal as Stephen about there being prominent names involved yet he hasn't had the thugs round or mishaps?
I would think there is a locally well known individual to be named but the big London thing I'm not convinced.
How difficult it must be for an abuse victim to come forward. To have to go through it all again. After being abused not only by the system, but to continue being abused.
And to have others pick your statements to bits.
But, if you have money, have had a good education, have a good lawyer you can afford to pay, it is interesting that people become wary of discussing you.
Jonathon King had money but he was imprisoned, so have others with wealth and connections.
As for the victims if you've been telling your story time and again and it's been ignored or pushed aside or not believed there's bound to be anger if finally it gets to court and what's been alledged is questioned.
I have to admit that running a word search through Google Books I can not find the precise phrase from the article mentioned in the in the book so presumably the Sydney Morning Herald journalist is paraphrasing its contents.It should also be noted that as someone earlier has mentioned the book is meant to be a discussion about how the idea in Machiavellis the Prince apply both to business and politics so the concepts may be lifted from the original 16th Century work
It is rather an unfortunate coincidence though.
I have checked the text again of the book again this time in Amazon using the 'Search inside this book' facility and it appears that the phrasing in the Sydney Morning Herald article does pretty much match exactly what is in the book . I am not sure why Google Books search could not find it.
Cyril Smith: fears grow of abuse cover-up
Former detective constable claims special branch tried to keep police from witness who alleged MP abused young boys
From the Daily Star, I know, and the headline does preempt the crash investigations, to say the least, still....
"MALCOLM KING'S TERROR AS PERV SEX RING CUTS BRAKES"
extracts:
"THE whistle-blower who exposed the Welsh children’s home sex abuse scandal has cheated death in a suspect car smash after his brakes failed. Police have seized care boss Malcolm King’s motor to see if it was sabotaged. The car, a regularly-maintained Volvo S60, careered across a busy A-road and was hit side-on by an Alfa Romeo. Afterwards Mr King, 68, who suffered a broken leg, found his brake pedal unattached and lying on the car floor.
Mr King, a county councillor and former chair of North Wales Police Authority, was one of only 12 people given copies of the 1996 Jillings Report, which named every abuser.
The married dad-of-two’s brake pedal mysteriously failed on the A525 near Ruthin days after the scandal blew up again two weeks ago. Mr King said: “I pushed my foot down hard on what I thought was the brake pedal but nothing happened. “I’ve no idea whether the pedal was attached at this stage or not. “The car flew across the junction and a car coming from my right smashed into my side. “If I’d shot across the junction a split-second sooner I’d be dead because it would have hit where I was sitting rather than the bonnet. It doesn’t bear thinking about. My car, which is a write-off, is now in the hands of the crash investigators.
“It’s a good car and I’ve always maintained and serviced it regularly at the best garage in town. “The police officer at the scene told me they’d examine it very thoroughly. They said they’d go over it with a fine-tooth comb.’’
A North Wales Police spokesman confirmed officers are investigating the cause of the crash."
Des Frost, the Deputy Manager at Bryn Alyn Care Home, spoke to a journalist at HTV News (which is now ITV Wales News) about the allegations. But the Waterhouse Inquiry which was investigating child abuse claims in North Wales at the time threatened the broadcaster with an injunction if the interview was used, saying it would be in contempt. It never called Des Frost as a witness.
I find the BIB good enough reason to suspect there was a cover-up.
Comments
Yes this still hasn't been adequately explained. pointing the finger of blame elsewhere seems to be the way they do things.
There's also the one who supposedly slipped on ice on a railway bridge and fell to his death.
http://www.damejanetsmithreview.com/
I have to admit that running a word search through Google Books I can not find the precise phrase from the article mentioned in the in the book so presumably the Sydney Morning Herald journalist is paraphrasing its contents.It should also be noted that as someone earlier has mentioned the book is meant to be a discussion about how the idea in Machiavellis the Prince apply both to business and politics so the concepts may be lifted from the original 16th Century work
It is rather an unfortunate coincidence though.
Oh whole heartedly agree, and lets not forget the pain others still alive are possibly going through with it yet again to the fore in the media....and reporters knocking on the door trying to persuade reluctant people to talk about it.
That's why I find the 'sensitive' Scallywag interviews conducted over a pub lunch far from sensitive.
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2012-11-16/wales-this-week-still-lost-in-care/
http://www.channel4.com/news/child-abuse-north-wales-waterhouse-inquiry-sian-griffiths
from 2:00 minutes in, in her own words
Keith Gregory would have fought them hence why he didn't end up a rent-boy hence why he doesn't know about that side of it as a direct eye witness only from running the support group.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/apr/13/abuse-teenage-boys-detention-centre-crime
I found that paragrapgh so odd, King says one thing and Nelson says, 'not me guv'.
From that it looks like there was nothing to cover up of the nature some would like to suggest.
Or looking at it another way he handed in the book of photos and the local police said the abusers weren't recognizable and did nothing about it.
After 20 years of being covered up the abuse in the North Wales homes got too big - because of the huge number of victims over the years - leading to the unpublished Jillings report and later the Waterhouse report around which time the book of photos were burnt to protect the reputation of the political establishment.
How difficult it must be for an abuse victim to come forward. To have to go through it all again. After being abused not only by the system, but to continue being abused.
And to have others pick your statements to bits.
But, if you have money, have had a good education, have a good lawyer you can afford to pay, it is interesting that people become wary of discussing you.
I thought it was odd too.
Nelson, I'd thought, definitely was on the side of the victims of abuse. I gave his Twitter ID in case people wanted to follow his tweets. (I can't stand Twitter, so I probably won't.)
very good, glad they're keeping on with it
She reads out what Cooke said to his probation officer re Kenyon and Meesham fine, but when she goes onto say Stephen handed pictures over to the police are those Cookes words or what Stephen said?
Again she knows a photo album was destroyed but had she seen the contents or know details of the contains?
The point I was making was about leading up to the inquiries that Keith was as vocal as Stephen about there being prominent names involved yet he hasn't had the thugs round or mishaps?
I would think there is a locally well known individual to be named but the big London thing I'm not convinced.
We agree on that bit.
Jonathon King had money but he was imprisoned, so have others with wealth and connections.
As for the victims if you've been telling your story time and again and it's been ignored or pushed aside or not believed there's bound to be anger if finally it gets to court and what's been alledged is questioned.
You realise that's 13 words!! It's an omen I tell you.
:rolleyes:
Yeah, maybe if you read the post properly you wouldn't have said that.
I have checked the text again of the book again this time in Amazon using the 'Search inside this book' facility and it appears that the phrasing in the Sydney Morning Herald article does pretty much match exactly what is in the book . I am not sure why Google Books search could not find it.
Former detective constable claims special branch tried to keep police from witness who alleged MP abused young boys
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/nov/16/cyril-smith-fears-cover-up
Another cover-up.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0119mtt
"MALCOLM KING'S TERROR AS PERV SEX RING CUTS BRAKES"
extracts:
"THE whistle-blower who exposed the Welsh children’s home sex abuse scandal has cheated death in a suspect car smash after his brakes failed. Police have seized care boss Malcolm King’s motor to see if it was sabotaged. The car, a regularly-maintained Volvo S60, careered across a busy A-road and was hit side-on by an Alfa Romeo. Afterwards Mr King, 68, who suffered a broken leg, found his brake pedal unattached and lying on the car floor.
Mr King, a county councillor and former chair of North Wales Police Authority, was one of only 12 people given copies of the 1996 Jillings Report, which named every abuser.
The married dad-of-two’s brake pedal mysteriously failed on the A525 near Ruthin days after the scandal blew up again two weeks ago. Mr King said: “I pushed my foot down hard on what I thought was the brake pedal but nothing happened. “I’ve no idea whether the pedal was attached at this stage or not. “The car flew across the junction and a car coming from my right smashed into my side. “If I’d shot across the junction a split-second sooner I’d be dead because it would have hit where I was sitting rather than the bonnet. It doesn’t bear thinking about. My car, which is a write-off, is now in the hands of the crash investigators.
“It’s a good car and I’ve always maintained and serviced it regularly at the best garage in town. “The police officer at the scene told me they’d examine it very thoroughly. They said they’d go over it with a fine-tooth comb.’’
A North Wales Police spokesman confirmed officers are investigating the cause of the crash."
http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/282958/Malcolm-King-s-terror-as-perv-sex-ring-cuts-brakes/
Des Frost, the Deputy Manager at Bryn Alyn Care Home, spoke to a journalist at HTV News (which is now ITV Wales News) about the allegations. But the Waterhouse Inquiry which was investigating child abuse claims in North Wales at the time threatened the broadcaster with an injunction if the interview was used, saying it would be in contempt. It never called Des Frost as a witness.
I find the BIB good enough reason to suspect there was a cover-up.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01nvp5n/Newswatch_16_11_2012/