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Problem in "Turn Left"
Helbore
Posts: 16,069 Forum Member
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Don't know if this has been brought up anywhere else (and I'm not trawling every thread looking for it!) but I realised there was a glaring hole in the plot of "Turn Left."
Now this plot hole was not actually related to this particular episodes story, but to the running arc of the series. In this episode, we get a scene in which Wilf looks up and sees that the stars are going out.
Now at first, I immediately thought of the fact that even if our closest star (after the sun; Proxima Centauri) wnet out, it would take 4 years before anyone on Earth noticed, because it is 4 light years away. For Wilf to see the stars popping out of existence like that would mean it happened centures earlier.
But then something else caught my attention, after seeing the finale. This effect was caused by Davros detonating the reality bomb.Now we know that Earth was a key component in this celestial "engine" that would amplify this effect all across the universe (and all other dimensions). So why was Earth stil in its usual place when the stars started going out in "Turn Left?" Surely Davros would still have needed to nab the Earth and use it in the engine. Either the Earth should have been moved or the stars would not have been going out.
On top of this, it also turned out that Dalek Caan had betrayed the Daleks and was intending for them to fail. If the Doctor had died, then surely Dalek Caan would have forseen the reality bomb going off and not rescued Davros so he could let him fail (which, honestly, makes you wonder why Dalek Caan saw a need to rescue Davros from death and help him build a new Dalek army, if his experiences getting in to the Time War only meant he wanted them all to die anyway. Why not just let them die first time round?)
But regardless of this second point (for which I think you could conjure up potential reasons) the first part seems unreconcilable, as it was made perfectly clear that the Earth was a necessary component of giving the reality bomb its range. Clearly, there is also no reason the Doctor's death, nor Donna's state would have any effect on stopping Davros from moving the Earth anyway.
Now this plot hole was not actually related to this particular episodes story, but to the running arc of the series. In this episode, we get a scene in which Wilf looks up and sees that the stars are going out.
Now at first, I immediately thought of the fact that even if our closest star (after the sun; Proxima Centauri) wnet out, it would take 4 years before anyone on Earth noticed, because it is 4 light years away. For Wilf to see the stars popping out of existence like that would mean it happened centures earlier.
But then something else caught my attention, after seeing the finale. This effect was caused by Davros detonating the reality bomb.Now we know that Earth was a key component in this celestial "engine" that would amplify this effect all across the universe (and all other dimensions). So why was Earth stil in its usual place when the stars started going out in "Turn Left?" Surely Davros would still have needed to nab the Earth and use it in the engine. Either the Earth should have been moved or the stars would not have been going out.
On top of this, it also turned out that Dalek Caan had betrayed the Daleks and was intending for them to fail. If the Doctor had died, then surely Dalek Caan would have forseen the reality bomb going off and not rescued Davros so he could let him fail (which, honestly, makes you wonder why Dalek Caan saw a need to rescue Davros from death and help him build a new Dalek army, if his experiences getting in to the Time War only meant he wanted them all to die anyway. Why not just let them die first time round?)
But regardless of this second point (for which I think you could conjure up potential reasons) the first part seems unreconcilable, as it was made perfectly clear that the Earth was a necessary component of giving the reality bomb its range. Clearly, there is also no reason the Doctor's death, nor Donna's state would have any effect on stopping Davros from moving the Earth anyway.
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The reality Bomb only needed One Earth (that of the Whoverse) for it to go off and affect all realities including "Turn Left Universe".
You're right about the Stars though.
Ah, I like that answer! Good one.
HOWEVER if that was the case, why was Rose jumping through time and space to make sure that Donna went the right way? It wouldn't matter if he died on one world but lived on the other.
The problem is, there is only one Doctor, through all universes, so he is either dead, or alive. The fact that Rose saw him dead, meant that this was an alternative reality.
Why then was the Earth not moved? Well without the Doctor, Davros didn't need the Earth to tempt him to come looking for the Daleks and he just used another planet for his deeds.
Believe it or not, but science fiction is SUPPOSED to make sense, within the boundries of its own rules. Sure, you can make rules that are not accurate in reality (such as say something can be bigger on the inside and can travel through time) but if those rules are not internally consistent, then calling it science fiction is no excuse.
Quite frankly, failing to abide by your own rules (which it may or may not have done, depending on whether we accept the explanation put forward by Corwin) is poor writing and should be criticised.
But based on the tone of your post I'm guesing you are one of those fans who can't accept criticism of something you enjoyed. Personally, I don't enjoy being called an arse or being told that "people like me," are not allowed to pick out flaws in a story.
If you find poor, inconsistent storytelling something that should be enjoyed then fine, you stick to accepting anything a writer decides to throw your way. As for myself, I'll remain keeping my standards high and expect writers to spend time thinking about what they write and whilst I'm at it, I'll feel quite happy about posting my thoughts on forums and discussing them with likeminded intelligent thinkers who are willing to try and determine if the story is internally consistent or not.
I'm glad, at least, everyone else who posted a response here is mature and intelligent enough to discuss a plot point, instead of attacking anyone who doesn't share their blind admiration for a TV show.
Actually, that's another good point. If it was simply a parallel world and not an alteration to the Whoverse that we know, then the threat is removed and it wouldn't matter. So I guess my original position still stands.
I disagree with that. The new Dr Who is more 'fantasy' than 'science fiction'. Good science fiction should always be rooted in its own reality whereas in fantasy anything can happen because there's no reason why it can't. I find the new Dr Who a little too fantastical and wish there were more genuine science fiction involved.
I apologise for what I said I now think it was a bit harsh and speculating is fun.
It seems to be in the new series they are saying parrallel world as different universe.
For fantasy and Sci-fi I don't mind which one you pick. Officially it is Sci-fi but yes it is going way into fantasy
it wasn't moved in any other world because he only needed one but the earth was a crucial part of it it wasn't to attract the Doctor they knew it will but daleks being daleks didn't care. But at least one earth must have been there
Don't forget that universe was created for donna not already there if she makes her go the right way then she can resist but I have a question
Why make her turn left in Donnas world as this shouldn't affect any other worlds?
That is why I say it wasn't a parallel world, but an alternative reality.
I look at it this way. The Reality bomb destroys existence across all parallel universes. So when we see the stars going out in Turn Left, it is because a parallel version of Earth has already been taken by Davros. Also, we are told planets are being taken out of time and space, so maybe it is a past or future version of the Earth that is taken.
It's because the Earth being stolen didn't happen in Donna's time-beetle-invoked alternate universe or Rose's parallel universe, but our regular universe.
And it had to be our universe as ours was the only one with a Doctor in it who could have impelled Dalek Caan to temporal shift into the timewar, thus precipitating the whole sequence of events.
The rift in the Medusa cascade sent the reality bomb shockwave across all universes, ours (where it was detonated) and the alternate ones. Rose's universe was ahead in time, so she saw the stars going out first (presumably just before her appearance in 'Partners In Crime'); 'Turn Left' told enough of the alternate time-beetle universe for us to see the effect of the reality bomb reaching Donna.
Regards,
Cypher
I don't know about some of you, but I do not actually know how a reality bomb works. Perhaps it works faster than light when directed through the medusa cascade. Speculation is fine, especially when it comes to sci-fi fantasy (and I don't diferentiate between them)
Eh, don't worry about it. We all have bad moments!! I guess my response might have been a bit harsh, too!
I agree and I did enjoy the episode (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it was a load of junk!) However, if this was a flaw, then it would be a BIG flaw, as it was the central idea of the whole story. It seems there is a plausible (if debatable) explanation for this, so its not as major as I first thought.
A similar example would be Star Trek Then Next Generation's final episode, "All Good Things..." In this, we are treated to a temporal anomoly that's prime property is that it travels backwards in time from the moment it was created. However in the final moments of the episode, Picard realises that it was his actions that created it and returns to the place where the anomoly was. Here, he finds the anomoly just forming. This end result actually contradicts the whole point of the story, as the anomoly is now moving forward through time.
Now,I still loved that episode, but it got its internal logic all backwards, on its key plot point, right in the final moments. It didn't destroy the episode, but it was pretty stupid of the writers to ignore their own rules like that.
That is entirely possible, but it would only mean the reality bomb was spreading faster than light. It wouldn't change the fact that people on Earth would not be able to see that these stars had been destroyed.
The reason for this has nothing to do with what the reality bomb was doing, but rather the fact that when we look at a star from Earth, we are not viewing the star as it is right now, but as it was when the photons left the star. In the case of our sun, we are viewing what the sun looked like 6 minutes ago. In the case of the next nearest star, we are viewing what it looked like 4 years ago. If the reality bomb destroyed a star that was 10,000 light years away from Earth, we would not see it go out for another 10,000 years.
If the reality bomb was causing an effect that travelled at insanely high (ie. much faster than light) speeds, then the first Earth would probably know about it is when it got destroyed by the effects. We'd never see it coming because it is travelling faster then light.
Of course, that would make for a pretty boring story, as everyone would have died, not knowing that the universe was about to come to an end!
Very complicated i know, tell me if you don't understand any of that explanation. How many light minutes does it take from the sun is 6 or 8, i think i have heard a few places say it was 8 light minutes to the sun.
Actually that's a really good point. The stars in question were going out because the reality bomb causes them to have never existed. If they never existed then any light beams would also never exist so the distance is irrelevant. If the star has no longer ever existed then there can be no light 'in transit' from it.
Wierd, but at least makes some scientific sense.
:eek: Really???? You couldn't speak to an old physics teacher of mine...so I can say
i don't think they never existed but indeed that the reality bomb destroys the light as well comin from it and that goes down the "light beams" but of course it was in time and space so could be destroyed in time as well as space like Gallifrey.