I managed to purchase two tickets in the fan pre-sale but in my panic picked a date that I can't make. (It's my sisters wedding the next day and I'm spending the evening before with her) I've been a massive fan of Kates since Wuthering Heights but family comes first.
I emailed Eventim within a few hours of the purchase to ask if my tickets could be exchanged for another date but received a cursory response saying "no exchange or refunds".
My only hope is to see if I can hook up with someone else wanting to swap tickets with me but that has an element of risk attached due to the ID rules.
Any suggestions for alternatives would be welcome. (I'm not interested in lining the touts pockets or in selling my tickets at a profit)
Went weak at the knees when I read this on her website, without a doubt the greatest female singer and performer to come from here and perhaps could show the selfie stars of today (Miley/Gaga/Rihanna) how its done and give them some inspiration or in the case of Madonna, how to mature gracefully. I dread the thought of the task of purchasing tickets, she's easily going to be more in demand and have more interest here than Beyonce/Gaga by quite some distance.
The pic of her on DS and this promo pic was taken this year, she looks phenomenal.
I managed to purchase two tickets in the fan pre-sale but in my panic picked a date that I can't make. (It's my sisters wedding the next day and I'm spending the evening before with her) I've been a massive fan of Kates since Wuthering Heights but family comes first.
I emailed Eventim within a few hours of the purchase to ask if my tickets could be exchanged for another date but received a cursory response saying "no exchange or refunds".
My only hope is to see if I can hook up with someone else wanting to swap tickets with me but that has an element of risk attached due to the ID rules.
Any suggestions for alternatives would be welcome. (I'm not interested in lining the touts pockets or in selling my tickets at a profit)
Thanks
phone eventim on monday and ask to speak to a human, if the person you speak to can't help, ask to speak to their supervisor, all politely. if it's a sold out gig genuinely then they should have no problem reselling the tickets even if you don't get the booking fee back. if they are no good, call stubhub or a reseller and ask them what you can do as surely they've encoutered this before. closer to the time you might hear some solutions if it's not resolved around now
Well lucky you. I was all ready and logged in, and as soon as 9.30am came Ticketmaster logged me out. By the time I got back in the only ticket available was "hospitality" at £424. No thanks.
As a genuine fan of KB I am incensed that touts have been allowed to buy up tickets like this meaning people like me didn't stand a chance. Particularly since "safeguards" were supposed to have been put in place. I am also disappointed that Kate Bush Music seemingly couldn't care less that this has happened.
i wasn't even logged into TM. i was going to buy elsewhere and logged into that site but the tickets appeared on the TM tab first and they give time to log in and buy and within 3 or 4 minutes after 9.30am i had them. i've never had a probelm buying tickets when they go onsale. i normally have a lot of safeguards to ensure i get them but this time i didn't really bother as i knew i had at least 1 or 2 shows in the bag already. the fans got two bits at the apple to get tickets with the presale code. i just had one chance and got it first time. to to say you didn't have a chance isn't true, you had a chance just like everyone else and if you were a big fan you would have had two chances with the presale via free membership to her website
i'm not sure why the limit for something like this is 4 tickets instead of two but i suppose two friends might want to go together and bring their partners, or have to bring their partners. however remember that it's not the artists management who is usually in control of tickets, it's the promotor. and it's the promotors job to engage ticket agencies to sell tickets, and their concern is only to sell tickets and try and make a profit on their investment. the ticketing issue has little to nothing to do with the artist or mangement in most cases. some may put requests to promotors but ultimately it's between them to agree any restrictions. if the promotor thinks they can sell no problem then they may agree to some, but until tickets go onsale it's all a gamble and they don't want to put any restrictions in place that could impair on sales. to the promotor if they sell all tickets that's the goal. if people later resell tickets it's not their concern. of course they would love a chunk of resale profit too, however it's really just a small percentage of tickets resold on fleabay and the like and that has to be taken into consideration as part and parcel of event promotion. in fact to the promotor it shows they've done a good job if they have sold all tickets and there is still a demand. it means next time they promote a similar event the demand should be retained or grow
i don't see touts as a bad thing. if you really want to see a gig and you miss out first time it gives you a second chance of getting in. there isn't much that can be done to prevent touting without causing a lot of additional and unnecessary cost in place, as sometimes people genuinely can't attend, such as someone who posted on this site, and there needs to be a way for people to resell tickets. putting laws in place just drives everything underground and touts won't stop because something is illegal, in fact it will result in increased prices as touts won't have fleabay opportunists as competition. and the likes of legal touts like seatwave will be coining it in
if the artist really wanted to ensure only fans get in then the best they can do is what prince did in february, make fans line up outside the venue for hours and pay on the door to get in, no tickets, no swaps or reentry, but that's simply not practicle for large venues, many people don't like standing in line all day, and it causes logistical issues with the time caused by people paying to get in and additional security outside for hours to prevent line jumping etc. however after doing all those shows i can't say i'm looking forwards to doing it all again, especially not in february in the cold and wind and rain and even hailstones
phone eventim on monday and ask to speak to a human, if the person you speak to can't help, ask to speak to their supervisor, all politely. if it's a sold out gig genuinely then they should have no problem reselling the tickets even if you don't get the booking fee back. if they are no good, call stubhub or a reseller and ask them what you can do as surely they've encoutered this before. closer to the time you might hear some solutions if it's not resolved around now
Thanks I may do that however I'm desperate to go to one of the concerts and unless Eventim are able so do a straight swap with any returned tickets my only hope is to see if I can find someone who's also looking to swap tickets.
Still there's nothing to be lost by calling them and asking is there?
Thanks I may do that however I'm desperate to go to one of the concerts and unless Eventim are able so do a straight swap with any returned tickets my only hope is to see if I can find someone who's also looking to swap tickets.
Still there's nothing to be lost by calling them and asking is there?
no of course not. call, explain the issue and see what they can do. i understand a number of fans bought 4 tickets on a specific date with plans to get 3 other fans who did the same and each fan goes to all 4 shows. however without going yourself you wouldn't be able to swap. at the prince shows when they sold manchester on the wed for fri/sat shows that week they introduced a similar policy of ID and cardholder, but they then added that the ticketbuyer could provide a letter so someone else can use them, but that was because there was literally 24 or 48 hours before the show and people had already bought tickets without that warning, whilst this requirement was announced in advance and there is six months to go. part of the problem is with tickets sold out eventim won't have tickets on another day to give you. if they were nice they could refund you and take your ticket back and resell it, but they wouldn't have another ticket to give you for another day. even if someone else returned tickets i'm sure they would prefer to resell on the second market due to ebay prices being so high, as opposed to swapping them. i'd suggest asking them if there is a way you can sign over your tickets to someone else and then see if you can do a swap with someone who has 4 tickets and wanting the night you are going
I think some people are getting ridiculously carried away. Maybe they should see how the Before The Dawn shows go before leaping to conclusions like Kate headlining Glastonbury. For all we know, the Hammersmith shows might be Kate's way of saying goodbye in one way or another.
I see viagogo too are selling them between £500 - £1000 per ticket. These reseller sites have been investigated, proven they are touts on an industrial scale yet nothing seems to be done about it. Ticketmaster are the biggest scammers too. How would it work getting tickets from these site and turning up? Who's name is going to be on the ticket. I think there will be a major problem with this unless the promoter is in on it and lets certain tickets in the venue
At the very least there is a massive conflict of interest here.
For a ticket seller who also owns a re-sale web site has little incentive to sell high-demand tickets through their selling web site when they can "re-sell" them through their re-sale site at 10 times the original price.
At the very least the companies should be split and the ticket seller should then be legally obliged to make 100% of their tickets available for sale to the general public.
At the very least there is a massive conflict of interest here.
For a ticket seller who also owns a re-sale web site has little incentive to sell high-demand tickets through their selling web site when they can "re-sell" them through their re-sale site at 10 times the original price.
At the very least the companies should be split and the ticket seller should then be legally obliged to make 100% of their tickets available for sale to the general public.
but why? why impose more trade restrictions on businesses? you know that a law as you suggest is easily bypassed anyways, making it pointless. remember the ticket sellers are only selling them on behalf of the promotor as an agency. they are given an allocation of tickets to sell. if the "re-sale" company had to be another limited company (and have you checked to see if the ones you are thinking about are or not, as they already could be), they will just get their own allocation of tickets to sell from the promoter. the promoters are aware of this practice. they know a front row seat is worth more than face value, but for a number of reasons they don't want to promote a show where the highest ticket price is a grand for front row as it would cause bad publicity in some cases. so instead they use a more discreet option.
basically there isn't a real solution that's really going to work and avoid all the things people don't like about ticket sales as there are always way around them. and none of it would stop the real touts who don't care about the law. the more laws and restrictions there are, the more the real touts will be laughing as it reduces their legal competition and plays into their hands, so it drives things underground therefore gives people less legal recourse, whilst the legal resellers have to abide by the law so consumers are protected
but why? why impose more trade restrictions on businesses? you know that a law as you suggest is easily bypassed anyways, making it pointless. remember the ticket sellers are only selling them on behalf of the promotor as an agency. they are given an allocation of tickets to sell. if the "re-sale" company had to be another limited company (and have you checked to see if the ones you are thinking about are or not, as they already could be), they will just get their own allocation of tickets to sell from the promoter. the promoters are aware of this practice. they know a front row seat is worth more than face value, but for a number of reasons they don't want to promote a show where the highest ticket price is a grand for front row as it would cause bad publicity in some cases. so instead they use a more discreet option.
basically there isn't a real solution that's really going to work and avoid all the things people don't like about ticket sales as there are always way around them. and none of it would stop the real touts who don't care about the law. the more laws and restrictions there are, the more the real touts will be laughing as it reduces their legal competition and plays into their hands, so it drives things underground therefore gives people less legal recourse, whilst the legal resellers have to abide by the law so consumers are protected
Let them take the bad publicity! If a promoter things the "true value" of a front row ticket is £1000 then put them on sale for that price, if that value is correct they will sell them easily enough.
By restricting demand by not putting the true number of tickets for sale an artificial demand for "re-sale" tickets is created, ripping off fans who are unable to get tickets.
This didn't happen 20 years ago when the venues used to sell the tickets and I don't see why people should simply roll over and accept being ripped off by greedy promoters today. Yes there have always been touts, but touts got hold of a tiny minority of the tickets available, this is effectively touting on an industrial scale.
You might be happy with the situation, that's fine, but don't expect everyone else to be.
Let them take the bad publicity! If a promoter things the "true value" of a front row ticket is £1000 then put them on sale for that price, if that value is correct they will sell them easily enough.
are you aware that bad publicity is often not a good thing? and that the bad publicity relating to an artists concerts will often be aimed at the artist rather than the promotor who is often overlooked entirely by the majority of gig goers. artists themselves may have a say in the pricing of tickets and not want the face value of tickets to be higher than a set amount so the artist doesn't get accusations in the media of ripping off fans for charging up to £1000 for a ticket.
also there is a limited market for tickets of that value, so the current method allows for tickets to be sold at £1000 as well as allowing sellers to reduce that price if they can't sell them, and at the same time avoiding selling tickets under face value. for example at the o2 the VIP packages may come with front row or similar good seats but cost say £250 or more when the regular ticket would be say £85. if there isn't sufficient take up on the VIP packages they will then release those tickets closer to the event date at face value. so everyone in the row has a ticket with the same price on it, but paid different prices
By restricting demand by not putting the true number of tickets for sale an artificial demand for "re-sale" tickets is created, ripping off fans who are unable to get tickets.
this happens frequently, however the practice of not putting the true number of tickets on sale to create demand is not an issue that's happened here. all the tickets have been put on sale at the same time. some through regular agencies and some through specialised agencies. when promoters are unsure of demand they will release so many tickets at a time so they can announce "sold out" shows and then put more nights on and sell so many tickets, then release more for other nights. that's not what has happened here
This didn't happen 20 years ago when the venues used to sell the tickets and I don't see why people should simply roll over and accept being ripped off by greedy promoters today. Yes there have always been touts, but touts got hold of a tiny minority of the tickets available, this is effectively touting on an industrial scale.
I think you over estimate the issue. it's only a small percentage of tickets that are sold this way. and rather than dealing with illegal touts, people can buy from legitimate legal businesses and be covered by law and pay by credit card. a lot has changed in 20 years. you can buy online from the comfort of your home and buy tickets for shows that are miles away or even in other country. and that's what helps create demand as people are more likely to travel further distances now than 20 years ago. also the population is greater and people have greater amounts of disposable income. a lot changes with the times
I think you over estimate the issue. it's only a small percentage of tickets that are sold this way. and rather than dealing with illegal touts, people can buy from legitimate legal businesses and be covered by law and pay by credit card. a lot has changed in 20 years. you can buy online from the comfort of your home and buy tickets for shows that are miles away or even in other country. and that's what helps create demand as people are more likely to travel further distances now than 20 years ago. also the population is greater and people have greater amounts of disposable income. a lot changes with the times
And yet from speaking to friends in Europe, this is pretty much only a UK problem. I've been to shows abroad and I've never seen touts with wads of tickets.
If this doesn't seem to happen in Europe, why should it happen in the UK? It is also noticeable that tickets are often far cheaper in Europe than in the UK for the same artist or event as well.
It could be made illegal and it could be stopped to prevent fans from being fleeced, but there is massive collusion within the industry to make sure it doesn't happen and, as usual, it is the punter that pays the price.
And yet from speaking to friends in Europe, this is pretty much only a UK problem. I've been to shows abroad and I've never seen touts with wads of tickets.
I've never seen touts with wads of tickets ever. touts tend to keep them in their pocket, they don't wave them around. however it's certainly not something specific to the UK, ticket scalping is common in america
If this doesn't seem to happen in Europe, why should it happen in the UK? It is also noticeable that tickets are often far cheaper in Europe than in the UK for the same artist or event as well.
I really don't know. perhaps it's down to the language barrier. artists aren't perhaps as popular in locations where their language is not native in the country they are playing. as I mentioned above, ticket scalping is very common in the states
It could be made illegal and it could be stopped to prevent fans from being fleeced, but there is massive collusion within the industry to make sure it doesn't happen and, as usual, it is the punter that pays the price.
no it couldn't. you could pass laws to outlaw certain things, but you certainly can't stop it. I don't see those legal ticket agencies selling tickets for over face value as fleecing fans as potential purchasers can clearly see how much the price is before buying, and no-one is forced to buy.
just have a think about it. think about what laws you could potentially pass, and then for each one think about how you would get around it both operating a legal business, and again from the perspective of a real tout that doesn't operate within the law. the more laws in place to make it harder for the legitimate businesses to operate, or stop the ebay casual opportunists, the more it plays into hands of touts who operate illegally, and the more risk they have and the less competition from ebay etc, the more profit they can make.
and in simple terms, that's why these practices are currently legal
no it couldn't. you could pass laws to outlaw certain things, but you certainly can't stop it. I don't see those legal ticket agencies selling tickets for over face value as fleecing fans as potential purchasers can clearly see how much the price is before buying, and no-one is forced to buy.
just have a think about it. think about what laws you could potentially pass, and then for each one think about how you would get around it both operating a legal business, and again from the perspective of a real tout that doesn't operate within the law. the more laws in place to make it harder for the legitimate businesses to operate, or stop the ebay casual opportunists, the more it plays into hands of touts who operate illegally, and the more risk they have and the less competition from ebay etc, the more profit they can make.
and in simple terms, that's why these practices are currently legal
So how have organisations like the FA and RFU managed to clamp down on it so successfully?
Within the Terms & Conditions of most tickets is a statement that any ticket sold above the value on the ticket makes the ticket invalid, how about simply enforcing those T&Cs?
It can be done but whilst those within the industry can get away with it, and a complicit government allows them to do so, it is the genuine fan that continues to be fleeced.
I continue to use the word fleeced because many of the tickets available through these "resale" web sites have never been offered to the public at face value in the first place, as was amply demonstrated on the C4 investigation in to the whole industry a couple of years ago.
As I have said before, it is about time there was some transparency in ticket sales. If a promoter thinks a £50 front row seat is under-sold, then he should put it on sale at what he/she considers a fair reflection of the true value. If those tickets then remain unsold they can then explain to the artist why the front 4 rows were empty for their show. If a seller holds back 25% of the tickets to "resell", even though they have never been available to purchase in the first place, that should also be made transparently clear before the tickets go on sale for a high demand event.
We demand transparency in other areas, why should ticketing be any different?
So how have organisations like the FA and RFU managed to clamp down on it so successfully?
I don't know. I know nothing about sport. but sport is very different to music. for example, obviously generally speaking, people attend a gig all in support of the same artist. everyone is like minded in that respect. however with sport different people are rooting for different teams/participants. in the cases of some sports, people literally fight very violently before, during and after events. so there is good reason to separate fans by imposing restrictions on tickets legally, for the safety of spectators, those working at the event, and the general public in the vicinity.
there is no requirement to do that at music events
Within the Terms & Conditions of most tickets is a statement that any ticket sold above the value on the ticket makes the ticket invalid, how about simply enforcing those T&Cs?
how on earth are they going to do that? if I buy a ticket from an agency for £50 and sell it to someone for £100, how is anyone going to know? furthermore, do you want the venue to not let in the person who paid £100, so they miss the show and there is an empty seat in the venue?
surely you can see that doesn't make any sense
It can be done
how can it be done realistically and without causing side effects?
part of the reason why it's not done is simply because there are no realistic ways to deal with it, plus promoters and even artists often don't want a change
but whilst those within the industry can get away with it, and a complicit government allows them to do so, it is the genuine fan that continues to be fleeced.
I continue to use the word fleeced because many of the tickets available through these "resale" web sites have never been offered to the public at face value in the first place, as was amply demonstrated on the C4 investigation in to the whole industry a couple of years ago.
and how does that constitute "fleeced"? there is no legal requirement to sell tickets at a set price, what happens is perfectly legal, and furthermore those buying tickets know the price before they buy.
now, let's say the law did change and you couldn't sell tickets above face value. you should surely know by now all that will happen is the agencies would print the actual price sold on the tickets at the point of sale, similar to what they do now when they print the buyers name on the tickets. so the change in the law wouldn't stop the legal practice in any shape or form. all it could potentially do is reduce the ebay opportunists, and reduce competition for both the legal second market sellers that you don't seem to like, and the illegal touts who benefit from legal restrictions as they don't follow them
As I have said before, it is about time there was some transparency in ticket sales. If a promoter thinks a £50 front row seat is under-sold, then he should put it on sale at what he/she considers a fair reflection of the true value
that is what is currently happening. the good seats are sold via separate agencies who charge the prices they consider a fair reflection of the true value
. If those tickets then remain unsold they can then explain to the artist why the front 4 rows were empty for their show.
but they can simply reduce the price, which is what happens now. so if they don't sell the front 4 rows at higher prices they can sell them on the day of the show or a few days before at normal prices, to which they will easily be snapped up
If a seller holds back 25% of the tickets to "resell", even though they have never been available to purchase in the first place, that should also be made transparently clear before the tickets go on sale for a high demand event.
who do you mean by seller?
what do you mean by hold back? the promoter issues ticket allocations to agencies to sell on the behalf of the promoter, at a price set by the promoter, and the agency takes a commission, which is referred to as the booking fee, which is usually a percentage of the ticket price. certain agencies may also resell tickets that are returned, but you seem to be thinking that those agencies, whilst known as resellers are selling prime tickets that are advertised as "resold" or something, which is not the case
and what do you mean by transparently clear? and to whom? and why should anyone other than the businesses concerned reveal sales data and stats like that? you don't expect other businesses to do the same do you?
We demand transparency in other areas, why should ticketing be any different?
which areas? in retail you buy an item for the price it's advertised at. you aren't told the breakdown of purchase price and other costs. it's fairly common that when buying goods and services you aren't given a clear and transparent breakdown. you are told the end price and that's it. what difference does the rest make? you either accept the price for the goods/services and pay or not
I'm beginning to think you must be a tout or something as not many people would feel so inclined to defend higher priced resales.
i'm none of those things. i've never resold a ticket higher than face value. i've helped many people both shift unwanted/spare tickets for face value or less, and helped people get tickets for face value or less for shows, sometimes even free, and even for sold out gigs. i've personally given away dozens of free tickets to events.
i'm not defending the higher prices either. people will only pay what they want to pay. the current system works. ticket reselling restrictions on sports events means people pay absolutely crazy money on tickets and often they find out the tickets are fake or stolen and can't get in and they have no legal recourse, whilst you do with the current system of resellers. sometimes it's better the devil you know.
i've been able to see bowie play at the hammersmith apollo for example, when tickets were only available by lining up outside the venue a few days before the event, which obviously makes it difficult for people not living in london at the time to buy tickets (about 500 were sold on the fansite), and i got one from a tout. i paid more than face value but it still worked out cheaper than taking a trip to london to line up and buy the tickets, and it was an amazing gig. likewise if i couldn't get a ticket to an event i know i can use a service like that to see the gig. if it was all outlawed and stopped it would mean there was no chance of seeing a show that was sold out. i and others prefer a second chance of getting tickets.
furthermore, i've thought about the situation many times over the years, and i've never seen anyone come up with a workable solution that makes things better than the current position. if you look on this forum alone you will see a number of threads on the subject, and not a single person has a workable solution, and that's why the law is the way it is
and on that note i think in order to put this thread back on topic of kate, i'd suggest any further discussion about touts is resumed on a tout specific thread if someone wants to either ressurect an old one or start a new one, but i'd suggest resuming an existing one instead of going over the same points over and over again
I'm beginning to think you must be a tout or something as not many people would feel so inclined to defend higher priced resales.
Sadly you will always find people ready and willing to defend the indefensible. I've yet to meet a fan who is happy to pay "over the odds" because the event they want tickets to mysteriously sells out within milliseconds of tickets going on sale only to find thousands of those "sold out" venue tickets are available on the ticket sellers own re-sale site within minutes, and somehow I doubt I ever will.
I can't be bothered to even reply to the other poster any more, there is no point.
I am unbelievably excited by the news! I have always said that Kate would be the jewel in the crown of all artists I have seen or want to see live. i always resigned myself to the fact that she would never tour. I never expected anything, just the odd release now and then. The only time she toured, it was 5 years before I was born.
Then the day the news broke I was at Heathrow airport, getting ready to fly to NYC. I was casually checking Twitter and I saw random comment that mentioned Kate and tickets. I was a bit puzzled by it so decided to do a name search on Kate. When I saw the news I think I almost had an episode! lol
I was literally stunned into silence until we boarded the plane. There was a bit of made texting top friends about getting me a ticket (before I realised about the security measures). Then I got the email about pre sale as I was a website member.
I got up at 5.30am NYC time on the Wednesday and managed to get 2 tickets. I could have cried! I put that down to the exhaustion. lol
There are so many songs I would love her to do. I'd love King Of The Mountain, Aerial, Suspended in Gaffa, Never Be Mine, Wuthering Heights, A Coral Room, This Woman's Work, RUTH, Feel It.... Do you think she could cram in her whole back catalogue just to be on the safe side? lol
So how have organisations like the FA and RFU managed to clamp down on it so successfully?
Within the Terms & Conditions of most tickets is a statement that any ticket sold above the value on the ticket makes the ticket invalid, how about simply enforcing those T&Cs?
It can be done but whilst those within the industry can get away with it, and a complicit government allows them to do so, it is the genuine fan that continues to be fleeced.
I continue to use the word fleeced because many of the tickets available through these "resale" web sites have never been offered to the public at face value in the first place, as was amply demonstrated on the C4 investigation in to the whole industry a couple of years ago.
As I have said before, it is about time there was some transparency in ticket sales. If a promoter thinks a £50 front row seat is under-sold, then he should put it on sale at what he/she considers a fair reflection of the true value. If those tickets then remain unsold they can then explain to the artist why the front 4 rows were empty for their show. If a seller holds back 25% of the tickets to "resell", even though they have never been available to purchase in the first place, that should also be made transparently clear before the tickets go on sale for a high demand event.
We demand transparency in other areas, why should ticketing be any different?
I read recently that Ticketmaster were being investigated in Australia about reselling and not making all tickets available. Apparently a new law was going through their parliament that stated anyone - company or individual - caught reselling tickets for for than 10% of their face value would be fined. They were looking at sites like viagogo and said that for each ticket, the fine would be $5000 or something. I thought that was a really great idea. It was basically putting these dodgy reseller sites out of business in favour of the music fan. I don't know if this law got passed but why can't we do something like that here?
Back onto the actual gig rather than the ticketing then.
I had a bit of a strange realisation when I was driving home earlier. This is the first time I've been properly, full-on, kid-at-Christmas excited about a gig since my early teens twenty-odd years ago. Devo back in 2007 was probably the closest I've been to that feeling since but it's nothing like this.
Nothing wrong with that though, until I realised that this will probably be the LAST time I ever get this excited about a show in my life. Short of someone like Rory Gallagher, Lux Interior or The Ramones coming back to life or - even less likely - I ever get hold of a Tom Waits ticket, then the 7th of September will mark the end of a personal era.
Most of the stuff I listen to now is brand new, up and coming stuff so I've usually seen most of my current favourite bands live six or seven times by the time their first EP comes out so there's none of the building tension. I'm probably a bit old-school excited about seeing Mike Watt next week but it's hard to tell because it's blending in with Kate Bush excitement. Still, Mike and Kate are the last two names to cross off my 'must see before I die' list so either way, I'm dreading the morning after.
I was also thinking that as well as all of us being excited to see Kate perform this will also be a first for her own son who has probably not really seen any more than we have as far as his mum being a performer as she hasn't done anything live musically in his lifetime.
Comments
I emailed Eventim within a few hours of the purchase to ask if my tickets could be exchanged for another date but received a cursory response saying "no exchange or refunds".
My only hope is to see if I can hook up with someone else wanting to swap tickets with me but that has an element of risk attached due to the ID rules.
Any suggestions for alternatives would be welcome. (I'm not interested in lining the touts pockets or in selling my tickets at a profit)
Thanks
MH 307
phone eventim on monday and ask to speak to a human, if the person you speak to can't help, ask to speak to their supervisor, all politely. if it's a sold out gig genuinely then they should have no problem reselling the tickets even if you don't get the booking fee back. if they are no good, call stubhub or a reseller and ask them what you can do as surely they've encoutered this before. closer to the time you might hear some solutions if it's not resolved around now
i wasn't even logged into TM. i was going to buy elsewhere and logged into that site but the tickets appeared on the TM tab first and they give time to log in and buy and within 3 or 4 minutes after 9.30am i had them. i've never had a probelm buying tickets when they go onsale. i normally have a lot of safeguards to ensure i get them but this time i didn't really bother as i knew i had at least 1 or 2 shows in the bag already. the fans got two bits at the apple to get tickets with the presale code. i just had one chance and got it first time. to to say you didn't have a chance isn't true, you had a chance just like everyone else and if you were a big fan you would have had two chances with the presale via free membership to her website
i'm not sure why the limit for something like this is 4 tickets instead of two but i suppose two friends might want to go together and bring their partners, or have to bring their partners. however remember that it's not the artists management who is usually in control of tickets, it's the promotor. and it's the promotors job to engage ticket agencies to sell tickets, and their concern is only to sell tickets and try and make a profit on their investment. the ticketing issue has little to nothing to do with the artist or mangement in most cases. some may put requests to promotors but ultimately it's between them to agree any restrictions. if the promotor thinks they can sell no problem then they may agree to some, but until tickets go onsale it's all a gamble and they don't want to put any restrictions in place that could impair on sales. to the promotor if they sell all tickets that's the goal. if people later resell tickets it's not their concern. of course they would love a chunk of resale profit too, however it's really just a small percentage of tickets resold on fleabay and the like and that has to be taken into consideration as part and parcel of event promotion. in fact to the promotor it shows they've done a good job if they have sold all tickets and there is still a demand. it means next time they promote a similar event the demand should be retained or grow
i don't see touts as a bad thing. if you really want to see a gig and you miss out first time it gives you a second chance of getting in. there isn't much that can be done to prevent touting without causing a lot of additional and unnecessary cost in place, as sometimes people genuinely can't attend, such as someone who posted on this site, and there needs to be a way for people to resell tickets. putting laws in place just drives everything underground and touts won't stop because something is illegal, in fact it will result in increased prices as touts won't have fleabay opportunists as competition. and the likes of legal touts like seatwave will be coining it in
if the artist really wanted to ensure only fans get in then the best they can do is what prince did in february, make fans line up outside the venue for hours and pay on the door to get in, no tickets, no swaps or reentry, but that's simply not practicle for large venues, many people don't like standing in line all day, and it causes logistical issues with the time caused by people paying to get in and additional security outside for hours to prevent line jumping etc. however after doing all those shows i can't say i'm looking forwards to doing it all again, especially not in february in the cold and wind and rain and even hailstones
Thanks I may do that however I'm desperate to go to one of the concerts and unless Eventim are able so do a straight swap with any returned tickets my only hope is to see if I can find someone who's also looking to swap tickets.
Still there's nothing to be lost by calling them and asking is there?
no of course not. call, explain the issue and see what they can do. i understand a number of fans bought 4 tickets on a specific date with plans to get 3 other fans who did the same and each fan goes to all 4 shows. however without going yourself you wouldn't be able to swap. at the prince shows when they sold manchester on the wed for fri/sat shows that week they introduced a similar policy of ID and cardholder, but they then added that the ticketbuyer could provide a letter so someone else can use them, but that was because there was literally 24 or 48 hours before the show and people had already bought tickets without that warning, whilst this requirement was announced in advance and there is six months to go. part of the problem is with tickets sold out eventim won't have tickets on another day to give you. if they were nice they could refund you and take your ticket back and resell it, but they wouldn't have another ticket to give you for another day. even if someone else returned tickets i'm sure they would prefer to resell on the second market due to ebay prices being so high, as opposed to swapping them. i'd suggest asking them if there is a way you can sign over your tickets to someone else and then see if you can do a swap with someone who has 4 tickets and wanting the night you are going
I think some people are getting ridiculously carried away. Maybe they should see how the Before The Dawn shows go before leaping to conclusions like Kate headlining Glastonbury. For all we know, the Hammersmith shows might be Kate's way of saying goodbye in one way or another.
At the very least there is a massive conflict of interest here.
For a ticket seller who also owns a re-sale web site has little incentive to sell high-demand tickets through their selling web site when they can "re-sell" them through their re-sale site at 10 times the original price.
At the very least the companies should be split and the ticket seller should then be legally obliged to make 100% of their tickets available for sale to the general public.
but why? why impose more trade restrictions on businesses? you know that a law as you suggest is easily bypassed anyways, making it pointless. remember the ticket sellers are only selling them on behalf of the promotor as an agency. they are given an allocation of tickets to sell. if the "re-sale" company had to be another limited company (and have you checked to see if the ones you are thinking about are or not, as they already could be), they will just get their own allocation of tickets to sell from the promoter. the promoters are aware of this practice. they know a front row seat is worth more than face value, but for a number of reasons they don't want to promote a show where the highest ticket price is a grand for front row as it would cause bad publicity in some cases. so instead they use a more discreet option.
basically there isn't a real solution that's really going to work and avoid all the things people don't like about ticket sales as there are always way around them. and none of it would stop the real touts who don't care about the law. the more laws and restrictions there are, the more the real touts will be laughing as it reduces their legal competition and plays into their hands, so it drives things underground therefore gives people less legal recourse, whilst the legal resellers have to abide by the law so consumers are protected
Let them take the bad publicity! If a promoter things the "true value" of a front row ticket is £1000 then put them on sale for that price, if that value is correct they will sell them easily enough.
By restricting demand by not putting the true number of tickets for sale an artificial demand for "re-sale" tickets is created, ripping off fans who are unable to get tickets.
This didn't happen 20 years ago when the venues used to sell the tickets and I don't see why people should simply roll over and accept being ripped off by greedy promoters today. Yes there have always been touts, but touts got hold of a tiny minority of the tickets available, this is effectively touting on an industrial scale.
You might be happy with the situation, that's fine, but don't expect everyone else to be.
are you aware that bad publicity is often not a good thing? and that the bad publicity relating to an artists concerts will often be aimed at the artist rather than the promotor who is often overlooked entirely by the majority of gig goers. artists themselves may have a say in the pricing of tickets and not want the face value of tickets to be higher than a set amount so the artist doesn't get accusations in the media of ripping off fans for charging up to £1000 for a ticket.
also there is a limited market for tickets of that value, so the current method allows for tickets to be sold at £1000 as well as allowing sellers to reduce that price if they can't sell them, and at the same time avoiding selling tickets under face value. for example at the o2 the VIP packages may come with front row or similar good seats but cost say £250 or more when the regular ticket would be say £85. if there isn't sufficient take up on the VIP packages they will then release those tickets closer to the event date at face value. so everyone in the row has a ticket with the same price on it, but paid different prices
this happens frequently, however the practice of not putting the true number of tickets on sale to create demand is not an issue that's happened here. all the tickets have been put on sale at the same time. some through regular agencies and some through specialised agencies. when promoters are unsure of demand they will release so many tickets at a time so they can announce "sold out" shows and then put more nights on and sell so many tickets, then release more for other nights. that's not what has happened here
I think you over estimate the issue. it's only a small percentage of tickets that are sold this way. and rather than dealing with illegal touts, people can buy from legitimate legal businesses and be covered by law and pay by credit card. a lot has changed in 20 years. you can buy online from the comfort of your home and buy tickets for shows that are miles away or even in other country. and that's what helps create demand as people are more likely to travel further distances now than 20 years ago. also the population is greater and people have greater amounts of disposable income. a lot changes with the times
And yet from speaking to friends in Europe, this is pretty much only a UK problem. I've been to shows abroad and I've never seen touts with wads of tickets.
If this doesn't seem to happen in Europe, why should it happen in the UK? It is also noticeable that tickets are often far cheaper in Europe than in the UK for the same artist or event as well.
It could be made illegal and it could be stopped to prevent fans from being fleeced, but there is massive collusion within the industry to make sure it doesn't happen and, as usual, it is the punter that pays the price.
I've never seen touts with wads of tickets ever. touts tend to keep them in their pocket, they don't wave them around. however it's certainly not something specific to the UK, ticket scalping is common in america
I really don't know. perhaps it's down to the language barrier. artists aren't perhaps as popular in locations where their language is not native in the country they are playing. as I mentioned above, ticket scalping is very common in the states
no it couldn't. you could pass laws to outlaw certain things, but you certainly can't stop it. I don't see those legal ticket agencies selling tickets for over face value as fleecing fans as potential purchasers can clearly see how much the price is before buying, and no-one is forced to buy.
just have a think about it. think about what laws you could potentially pass, and then for each one think about how you would get around it both operating a legal business, and again from the perspective of a real tout that doesn't operate within the law. the more laws in place to make it harder for the legitimate businesses to operate, or stop the ebay casual opportunists, the more it plays into hands of touts who operate illegally, and the more risk they have and the less competition from ebay etc, the more profit they can make.
and in simple terms, that's why these practices are currently legal
So how have organisations like the FA and RFU managed to clamp down on it so successfully?
Within the Terms & Conditions of most tickets is a statement that any ticket sold above the value on the ticket makes the ticket invalid, how about simply enforcing those T&Cs?
It can be done but whilst those within the industry can get away with it, and a complicit government allows them to do so, it is the genuine fan that continues to be fleeced.
I continue to use the word fleeced because many of the tickets available through these "resale" web sites have never been offered to the public at face value in the first place, as was amply demonstrated on the C4 investigation in to the whole industry a couple of years ago.
As I have said before, it is about time there was some transparency in ticket sales. If a promoter thinks a £50 front row seat is under-sold, then he should put it on sale at what he/she considers a fair reflection of the true value. If those tickets then remain unsold they can then explain to the artist why the front 4 rows were empty for their show. If a seller holds back 25% of the tickets to "resell", even though they have never been available to purchase in the first place, that should also be made transparently clear before the tickets go on sale for a high demand event.
We demand transparency in other areas, why should ticketing be any different?
I don't know. I know nothing about sport. but sport is very different to music. for example, obviously generally speaking, people attend a gig all in support of the same artist. everyone is like minded in that respect. however with sport different people are rooting for different teams/participants. in the cases of some sports, people literally fight very violently before, during and after events. so there is good reason to separate fans by imposing restrictions on tickets legally, for the safety of spectators, those working at the event, and the general public in the vicinity.
there is no requirement to do that at music events
how on earth are they going to do that? if I buy a ticket from an agency for £50 and sell it to someone for £100, how is anyone going to know? furthermore, do you want the venue to not let in the person who paid £100, so they miss the show and there is an empty seat in the venue?
surely you can see that doesn't make any sense
how can it be done realistically and without causing side effects?
part of the reason why it's not done is simply because there are no realistic ways to deal with it, plus promoters and even artists often don't want a change
and how does that constitute "fleeced"? there is no legal requirement to sell tickets at a set price, what happens is perfectly legal, and furthermore those buying tickets know the price before they buy.
now, let's say the law did change and you couldn't sell tickets above face value. you should surely know by now all that will happen is the agencies would print the actual price sold on the tickets at the point of sale, similar to what they do now when they print the buyers name on the tickets. so the change in the law wouldn't stop the legal practice in any shape or form. all it could potentially do is reduce the ebay opportunists, and reduce competition for both the legal second market sellers that you don't seem to like, and the illegal touts who benefit from legal restrictions as they don't follow them
that is what is currently happening. the good seats are sold via separate agencies who charge the prices they consider a fair reflection of the true value
but they can simply reduce the price, which is what happens now. so if they don't sell the front 4 rows at higher prices they can sell them on the day of the show or a few days before at normal prices, to which they will easily be snapped up
who do you mean by seller?
what do you mean by hold back? the promoter issues ticket allocations to agencies to sell on the behalf of the promoter, at a price set by the promoter, and the agency takes a commission, which is referred to as the booking fee, which is usually a percentage of the ticket price. certain agencies may also resell tickets that are returned, but you seem to be thinking that those agencies, whilst known as resellers are selling prime tickets that are advertised as "resold" or something, which is not the case
and what do you mean by transparently clear? and to whom? and why should anyone other than the businesses concerned reveal sales data and stats like that? you don't expect other businesses to do the same do you?
which areas? in retail you buy an item for the price it's advertised at. you aren't told the breakdown of purchase price and other costs. it's fairly common that when buying goods and services you aren't given a clear and transparent breakdown. you are told the end price and that's it. what difference does the rest make? you either accept the price for the goods/services and pay or not
i'm none of those things. i've never resold a ticket higher than face value. i've helped many people both shift unwanted/spare tickets for face value or less, and helped people get tickets for face value or less for shows, sometimes even free, and even for sold out gigs. i've personally given away dozens of free tickets to events.
i'm not defending the higher prices either. people will only pay what they want to pay. the current system works. ticket reselling restrictions on sports events means people pay absolutely crazy money on tickets and often they find out the tickets are fake or stolen and can't get in and they have no legal recourse, whilst you do with the current system of resellers. sometimes it's better the devil you know.
i've been able to see bowie play at the hammersmith apollo for example, when tickets were only available by lining up outside the venue a few days before the event, which obviously makes it difficult for people not living in london at the time to buy tickets (about 500 were sold on the fansite), and i got one from a tout. i paid more than face value but it still worked out cheaper than taking a trip to london to line up and buy the tickets, and it was an amazing gig. likewise if i couldn't get a ticket to an event i know i can use a service like that to see the gig. if it was all outlawed and stopped it would mean there was no chance of seeing a show that was sold out. i and others prefer a second chance of getting tickets.
furthermore, i've thought about the situation many times over the years, and i've never seen anyone come up with a workable solution that makes things better than the current position. if you look on this forum alone you will see a number of threads on the subject, and not a single person has a workable solution, and that's why the law is the way it is
and on that note i think in order to put this thread back on topic of kate, i'd suggest any further discussion about touts is resumed on a tout specific thread if someone wants to either ressurect an old one or start a new one, but i'd suggest resuming an existing one instead of going over the same points over and over again
Sadly you will always find people ready and willing to defend the indefensible. I've yet to meet a fan who is happy to pay "over the odds" because the event they want tickets to mysteriously sells out within milliseconds of tickets going on sale only to find thousands of those "sold out" venue tickets are available on the ticket sellers own re-sale site within minutes, and somehow I doubt I ever will.
I can't be bothered to even reply to the other poster any more, there is no point.
It will be interesting to see what she does, after all there have been massive leaps in technology since she last toured!!
Plus, after so long, people's expectations are going to be so high it might be difficult for her to live up to those expectations.
Then the day the news broke I was at Heathrow airport, getting ready to fly to NYC. I was casually checking Twitter and I saw random comment that mentioned Kate and tickets. I was a bit puzzled by it so decided to do a name search on Kate. When I saw the news I think I almost had an episode! lol
I was literally stunned into silence until we boarded the plane. There was a bit of made texting top friends about getting me a ticket (before I realised about the security measures). Then I got the email about pre sale as I was a website member.
I got up at 5.30am NYC time on the Wednesday and managed to get 2 tickets. I could have cried! I put that down to the exhaustion. lol
There are so many songs I would love her to do. I'd love King Of The Mountain, Aerial, Suspended in Gaffa, Never Be Mine, Wuthering Heights, A Coral Room, This Woman's Work, RUTH, Feel It.... Do you think she could cram in her whole back catalogue just to be on the safe side? lol
I do hope this is recorded for DVD/Live album!
I read recently that Ticketmaster were being investigated in Australia about reselling and not making all tickets available. Apparently a new law was going through their parliament that stated anyone - company or individual - caught reselling tickets for for than 10% of their face value would be fined. They were looking at sites like viagogo and said that for each ticket, the fine would be $5000 or something. I thought that was a really great idea. It was basically putting these dodgy reseller sites out of business in favour of the music fan. I don't know if this law got passed but why can't we do something like that here?
I had a bit of a strange realisation when I was driving home earlier. This is the first time I've been properly, full-on, kid-at-Christmas excited about a gig since my early teens twenty-odd years ago. Devo back in 2007 was probably the closest I've been to that feeling since but it's nothing like this.
Nothing wrong with that though, until I realised that this will probably be the LAST time I ever get this excited about a show in my life. Short of someone like Rory Gallagher, Lux Interior or The Ramones coming back to life or - even less likely - I ever get hold of a Tom Waits ticket, then the 7th of September will mark the end of a personal era.
Most of the stuff I listen to now is brand new, up and coming stuff so I've usually seen most of my current favourite bands live six or seven times by the time their first EP comes out so there's none of the building tension. I'm probably a bit old-school excited about seeing Mike Watt next week but it's hard to tell because it's blending in with Kate Bush excitement. Still, Mike and Kate are the last two names to cross off my 'must see before I die' list so either way, I'm dreading the morning after.
I would think that this will be the 'show' part of the performance, as opposed to the physical leaping around of the only other tour she did.
Not at all. Singing the beloved songs well is guaranteed to please 100% of the audience.