Does this mean no more River Song?

2

Comments

  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
    Forum Member
    In Lets Kill Hitlers case if there was actually a well plotted story there and not a few settings in order to play out the arc then fine but LKH was just a clothes horse for the arc to hang on, the actual episode played second fiddle to the arc.

    As I've said before, this is not a series arc in the way we've had them in the past - Badwolf etc. This is a more serial style of story telling and the main subject of the series is the Doctor's "death" and River Songs part in that event is central.

    The overall format of the series is more like the old 4-8 part stories mixed with the more recent one story per week. It's not an "arc" running in the background - it's the plot.
  • EmmaGxEmmaGx Posts: 31,062
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    As I've said before, this is not a series arc in the way we've had them in the past - Badwolf etc. This is a more serial style of story telling and the main subject of the series is the Doctor's "death" and River Songs part in that event is central.

    The overall format of the series is more like the old 4-8 part stories mixed with the more recent one story per week. It's not an "arc" running in the background - it's the plot.
    ... agree totally ... what's more I like my shows that way round ... much prefer a real story to run through an entire series than have stand alone episodes with a word or two thrown in to imply that they are in some way connected when they aren't at all ... it's crazy to think that our characters have to be more involved in an external story each week than in their own lives, tisn't like this is "CSI: The Whole of Time and Space" ...
  • CAMERA OBSCURACAMERA OBSCURA Posts: 8,002
    Forum Member
    As I've said before, this is not a series arc in the way we've had them in the past - Badwolf etc. This is a more serial style of story telling and the main subject of the series is the Doctor's "death" and River Songs part in that event is central.

    The overall format of the series is more like the old 4-8 part stories mixed with the more recent one story per week. It's not an "arc" running in the background - it's the plot.

    Yes I know the arc IS the plot that is my problem with series 6 so far, for me it has been to the detriment of the majority of those 'episodic' episodes and I'll explain in as much clarity as I can because I'm tired of reading some posters making genuine criticisms and being labelled as trolls, idiots and morons. (that's not directed at your quote by the way Minky)


    The thing is I'm a Moffat fan, he is, and rightly so, one of the greatest writers Doctor Who has had. Along with RTD over series 1-4 he also defined what Doctor Who is with his episodes.

    The Doctor Dances Genius.
    The Girl in the Fireplace. Genius
    Blink. Genius
    The Library two parter. Genius
    The Eleventh Hour. Genius, great series opener, fast paced, funny, smart. Everything an opener should be, that is a great little episode.
    Pandorica Opens/Big bang. Genius, great big epic finale.


    But I feel for series 6 he has begun to pay too much attention to and try and live up to his 'dark,clever Who' image by going balls out with this multi series arc. But for me he seems to have forgotten that what made the episodes I listed above dark,clever and great Who, there was another thing that also made those episodes great, wonderfully written self contained episodes with strong plots and narratives.

    So by trying to outdo his image he seems to have forgotten that BOTH of those things I mention made his episodes great, not just the 'dark,clever Who' bit. And for his episodes on series 6 they have, for me, been one without the other, unfortunately for me one does not work without the other.

    I cannot believe that the same pen that gave us The Doctor Dances,a sublimely paced, written and plotted story and all with Moffat's trademark 'dark and scary' stamp on top , gave us the plotting of A Good Man Goes To War, it is terrible, it is all over the place, it is there JUST to get to the arc. Everything is irrelevant, the comedy guards, the headless monks all second fiddle to the arc. Compare to The Doctor Dances where everything in it IS the story.

    I cannot believe that the same pen that gave us The Girl In The Fireplace surely one of Doctor Who's most stunning and defining examples of just how well a wonderfully written romance story can make a great show even greater, and then on top of that Moffat's trademark 'dark and scary' stamp, also gave us the same flat one dimensional Rory and Amy companionship. I actually believed a Time Lord WOULD give it all up and settle down with Louis XV's most powerful courtesan, I don't however believe Amy would touch Rory with mine let alone yours.

    I cannot believe the same pen that gave us Blink, a milestone in Who, a smart, clever, ever twisting and turning snake like plot with a glorious achievement by Moffat, making the audience care about a brand new one off character and have that character be able to carry the show, that in itself is one of the greatest pieces of Who writing, also gave us Lets Kill Hitler a turgid afterthought of a plot there to serve an already ill judged and poorly handled multi series arc.


    Now for me Moffat has let a big part of what made the episodes I listed at the start of my post take a very big and ill judged back seat, good stories with well written plots.

    When It was known the Moffatola would be taking over from RTD I was more than happy, imagine more of those wonderful and very individual episode like we saw in series 1-4. I was disappointed with series 5 but on many occasions was happy to put it down to first series bugs but series 6 has been the most vacuous and shallow Who experience of my life because Moffat's wonderful episodic writing has take a back seat to his Arc, it is almost as if he has a great 2-3 parter stretched out over two whole series to the expense of the episodes they are stretching over making them thread bare.

    For all of the great things about the classics it's biggest 'problem' is and was taking a great idea and stretching it out. But when that did happen it would be at the expense of one contained story. My problem with Moffats arc is that in series 6 it has been at the complete expense of the individual episodes as stories in their own right, not that there is a series arc/plot.

    It is telling that the only episode I have enjoyed has been The Doctors Wife, but even then after 40 minutes of perfection a crowbarred arc hint...damn.. every time I watch it, and I watched it a lot, my enjoyment is zapped at that moment.


    So Ive done my best to explain my point of view, I don't tune in every week with the sole intent of not loving it. The Arc/Plot doesn't confuse me in the least I just think is has been poorly executed and somehow this clunky limping multi series arc has come from the pen of Moffat. That is the only thing that confuses me.

    Wow, how bored am I on Bank Holiday.:D
  • PretzelPretzel Posts: 7,858
    Forum Member
    I know that I'm in the minority too but.. I don't really care about River either. It's not that I don't like the character, I thought that she was quite fun and intriguing to begin with, and I love Alex Kingston, so it's not her. It's more about how omnipresent River has become, to the point where for me, it feels like she has eclipsed The Doctor, and that doesn't feel right somehow.

    I don't see her as a female Captain Jack, who for all his flirting at least seemed as if he cared about some of the others, became friends with them, River doesn't so much, she doesn't even seem to care much about her family, it is all about her. I see her more as a sort of female version of Blackadders' Flashheart, quite funny at first but the constant ''Hello Boys, Ooh aren't I sexy?' routine got old for me pretty quickly. Great line about the bar mitzvah aside, I found it oddly disconcerting to watch her thigh-slapping her way around 1930s Nazi Berlin with like she was in some sort of Mel Brooks pantomine.

    The Doctor is a sentient being so it's perfectly reasonable for him to have romantic or sexual feelings for another even if they are perhaps left to be inferred rather than blatantly shown onscreen. Having said that he seems more scared of her than anything.

    Nope, I know that I'm in a very small minority- fair enough the majority wins- but I'd happily have The Doctor do without River for long while.
  • sandydunesandydune Posts: 10,986
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    Pretzel wrote: »
    .

    Nope, I know that I'm in a very small minority- fair enough the majority wins- but I'd happily have The Doctor do without River for long while.
    I like River's character in parts but I think it might be a good idea to have her pop in now and again, to say hello but there has been a build up to who River is/was, it has got kinda outta control..It would be good time to bring in someone new to travel with the Doctor that has no connection to River, might freshen it up a little.
  • MinkytheDogMinkytheDog Posts: 5,658
    Forum Member
    Yes I know the arc IS the plot that is my problem with series 6 so far, for me it has been to the detriment of the majority of those 'episodic' episodes
    <snip>
    So Ive done my best to explain my point of view, I don't tune in every week with the sole intent of not loving it. The Arc/Plot doesn't confuse me in the least I just think is has been poorly executed and somehow this clunky limping multi series arc has come from the pen of Moffat. That is the only thing that confuses me.

    I think you explained that well.

    What I'd say is that we all have episodes or stories that we like more or less than others. Obviously, what works or doesn't "work" for us is personal and some people will regard one episode as awesome whilst another says it's aweful.

    When it's a single episode in a series that we don't take to, it's easy to shrug it off and just enjoy the next one but when it's an ongoing, serialised story and it's the basic plot or premise we don't like, it means we don't like the series (the specific series - not the show itself).

    When it's a story that is effectively running as a linear plot - which series 5 and 6 are doing - it gets more complicated. It may be that despite your respect for Moffat, you actually haven't taken to his style of writing and production. If - after nearly two series with Moffat at the helm - you are not enjoying the show, it may be time to reassess yourdecision to watch the show.

    I stopped watching DW when I stopped enjoying it in the mid-80's. Likewise, I stopped watching CSI more recently for the same reason. It make no difference to me that others still watch and enjoy a show - anymore than I'd watch X-Factor just because 10,000,000 other people like it.

    Bottom line - it's subjective as to whether or not the show is "good" or not. For me, this is the best series of DW since the show began in 1963 - for others it's the worst. If it doesn't work for you and hasn't worked for months - maybe longer - then you need to either stop watching or - if you fancy the challenge - find a way to get your views to Moffat or the BBC.

    I'm not being facetoius in saying that - 50-odd million people don't watch Doctor Who and most of them never tell anyone why.
  • davrosdodebirddavrosdodebird Posts: 8,692
    Forum Member
    As for River's timeline?

    In filming for episode 13, River tells Amy
    that she has just climbed out of the Byzantium. So we will definately see more of River's future rather than her past. It is also implied that she has earned her freedom due to the Byzantium incident.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 280
    Forum Member
    I sort of feel at least in parts similar to CAMERA OBSCURA and don't particular like how everything at the moment feels like one consecutive lining up of plot devices screeming "attention! clever me!" ...

    I will not give up watching Doctor Who (hell, been a follower throughout worse times ;) ) but s. 6 has been going downhill for me from AGMGTW.

    I really (used to) love River as a char, she was a great counterpart to the Doctor, like Jack used to be. But since the River - Melody - Timelord development, she moved from being mysterious but fiercely loyal to the Doctor (while keeping him on his toes) to a twisted plot device trying to tie up some throwaway lose ends from past episodes in a way that appears to be just aiming at being "outrageous".

    Not credible (yes, I know, it's Sci-Fi/Fantasy stuff, I am talking characterization credible here), not suspense-holding ... she's been diminished to a simple plot-device and loses a lot of her previous appeal to me.

    I still HOPE to see the "old" River back, but the way the series has been unfolding, I am getting increasingly less optimistic about that ...
  • cat80cat80 Posts: 4,124
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    She's got to be in it for a while yet because she knows the Dr as an older person so surely she has to be around to meet the older Dr?
  • AbominationAbomination Posts: 6,483
    Forum Member
    I love River Song... back in Series 4 I was a bit uninterested in her, and I was craving another character who would join the TARDIS for multiple episodes (that wasn't a companion), just as Adam and Jack did in Series 1. River has sort of filled that gap in Series 6.

    I personally prefer a balance between standalone and arc-centric. RTD was often too standalone, and Moffat is often too arc-centric - the worst culprit was Flesh and Stone, which sacrificed a pretty good weeping angel story for the crack in the universe arc. The problem was rectified in Series 6 by giving the arc a story of its own (A Good Man Goes to War/Lets Kill Hitler)....

    In turn I think that episodes are less rewatchable when arc-centric as they don't have the same impact on second viewing and there is little standalone quality to bring you back (A Good Man Goes to War is highly unrewatchable in that regard).

    I think the main issue with Series 6 has been the structure. Opening with an intense two-parter (which I wasn't immensely fond of) that isn't to be resolved is hugely unfair to the episodes that follow (Curse of the Black Spot would probably be more successful in any other series... I for one loved it), especially when they don't have the budget of episodes on either side of it. I really feel that the Gangers story could have been one episode, rather than having a two-parter that also carried into the next episode which was also a cliffhanger. With River at the core of the plot, its understandable that some people have grown tired. Now with three, probably four standalone episodes before the main plot is even revisited for the finale, I can't help but feel the structure of the series more than River herself is the problem.

    More to the point, I'd love to see her as the main companion in Series 7 (Moffat has promised more standalone stories which would bulk up their adventure count, allow Rory and Amy a look in still, and also allow for new characters to become more of a focus ahead of the 50th anniversary), maybe see the Doctor take her to the Singing Towers and cry in the finale. :D
  • Pandora.Pandora. Posts: 21,417
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    justine01 wrote: »
    I sort of feel at least in parts similar to CAMERA OBSCURA and don't particular like how everything at the moment feels like one consecutive lining up of plot devices screeming "attention! clever me!" ...

    I will not give up watching Doctor Who (hell, been a follower throughout worse times ;) ) but s. 6 has been going downhill for me from AGMGTW.

    I really (used to) love River as a char, she was a great counterpart to the Doctor, like Jack used to be. But since the River - Melody - Timelord development, she moved from being mysterious but fiercely loyal to the Doctor (while keeping him on his toes) to a twisted plot device trying to tie up some throwaway lose ends from past episodes in a way that appears to be just aiming at being "outrageous".

    Not credible (yes, I know, it's Sci-Fi/Fantasy stuff, I am talking characterization credible here), not suspense-holding ... she's been diminished to a simple plot-device and loses a lot of her previous appeal to me.

    I still HOPE to see the "old" River back, but the way the series has been unfolding, I am getting increasingly less optimistic about that ...
    I have to agree, sadly. :(

    On a seperate note, is River going to:
    appear in Night Terrors or not? Doctor Who TV quotes an interview with Matt Smith in which he says she is definately in Ep.9, but the reviews I've seen say there is no reference to her or the story arc in it. :confused:
  • HelboreHelbore Posts: 16,066
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    justine01 wrote: »
    I will not give up watching Doctor Who (hell, been a follower throughout worse times ;) ) but s. 6 has been going downhill for me from AGMGTW.

    To be fair, that's only the last two episodes. Surely (what you consider) a two episode slump is not enough to say it's going downhill. We've had two consecutively bad episodes in the past before.
  • ea91ea91 Posts: 2,363
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Helbore wrote: »
    To be fair, that's only the last two episodes. Surely (what you consider) a two episode slump is not enough to say it's going downhill. We've had two consecutively bad episodes in the past before.

    A slump? I thought the last two episodes were amazing. I was getting bored before.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36
    Forum Member
    I agree.

    At one stage I wouldn't have minded seeing River as a regular companion I thought she was smart, funny and had an edge to her, a female Capt. Jack,(lets be honest that is basically what she is) but since series 6 I'm of a the mind that enough is enough, sick of the sight of her, couldn't care less about her story past or present any more, as a character she all become dull beyond belief. A character that is now just exposition of an arc, with a few jazzy lines thrown in, nothing more nothing less. A character completely bogged down in exposition and poor poor plotting by the writer/show runner.

    Shame because I do like Alex Kingston's performance and enjoyed it when the character popped up in series 5, in fact she was one of the few highlights of series 5, but now
    I really could not care less about who she is , what she will do or why she will do it. The character is now nothing more than tiresome arc exposition, what purpose has she served in any of the adventures she has been in this series beyond pop up and remind us that she is a story arc, a tired, clunky and poorly plotted multi series arc.

    Agree with you a hundred times over. I do love my River but, come on. Using a character as a story arc? Yes there's endless possibilities but I feel myself not wanting to know all about River. I'd like some mystery kept to her character. I'm interested to find out about how they get 'married', but they shouldn't force her on the viewers as much as they do, else she DOES get tiresome. I don't believe she's even on a huge amount, but her presence is always felt.
  • temperaretemperare Posts: 3,869
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Helbore wrote: »
    To be fair, that's only the last two episodes. Surely (what you consider) a two episode slump is not enough to say it's going downhill. We've had two consecutively bad episodes in the past before.

    Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks immediatly spring to mind...and that was followed by the Lazarus Experiment.... That is 3 in a row.
  • HelboreHelbore Posts: 16,066
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    ea91 wrote: »
    A slump? I thought the last two episodes were amazing. I was getting bored before.

    I agree. That's why I said "in that poster's opinion." I thought they were fantastic, too. My point was simply that, even if you thought they were rubbish, two rubbish epsiodes in a row would not be a sign that the show was going downhill. We've had two bad episodes in a row before and it didn't go downhill, so such a conclusion is jumping the gun a little.
    temperare wrote: »
    Daleks in Manhattan / Evolution of the Daleks immediatly spring to mind...and that was followed by the Lazarus Experiment.... That is 3 in a row.

    Haha, that was exactly the run that came to mind as I typed that post! Aliens of London and World War 3 would be another two-episode run I would consider not too good, either.Fortunately, that didn't result in the show going downhill after only half a year of the restart.
  • TEDRTEDR Posts: 3,413
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    Spot observation: having promised in A Good Man Goes to War to track down the child Melody, the Doctor achieves this in The Impossible Astronaut.
  • CAMERA OBSCURACAMERA OBSCURA Posts: 8,002
    Forum Member
    MinkytheDog
    What I'd say is that we all have episodes or stories that we like more or less than others. Obviously, what works or doesn't "work" for us is personal and some people will regard one episode as awesome whilst another says it's aweful.

    :confused:
    Well yes of course, I make no pretense other than giving my own opinion on an episode/series.


    When it's a single episode in a series that we don't take to, it's easy to shrug it off and just enjoy the next one but when it's an ongoing, serialised story and it's the basic plot or premise we don't like, it means we don't like the series (the specific series - not the show itself).

    Yes, And I'm not that keen on this series so far, The Doctor Wife aside, I couldn't have been more clearer to be honest. I fully realise that other do like it however I am speaking about my own opinion and not on behalf of others.

    When it's a story that is effectively running as a linear plot - which series 5 and 6 are doing - it gets more complicated. It may be that despite your respect for Moffat, you actually haven't taken to his style of writing and production. If - after nearly two series with Moffat at the helm - you are not enjoying the show, it may be time to reassess your decision to watch the show.

    I don't find it complicated. Can we stop this sci-fi/who fan myth that Who is complicated, I know you and others like mock people with this when they say that don't like something so I'll be clear with you so you don't think I'm a dummy (could you have been more patronising in that thread) This series has been about as complicated as drawing a straight line. There simple.:eek: I said it..I don't find the BBc afternoon family show complicated. :eek:

    My problem is that it is DUMB, the arc isn't clever, it's slap dash, amateurish and ultimately so poorly realised FOR ME it has become a blight on the series rather that a highlight of the series. Asking a question in one episode and then answering it in a later episode is not complex, My problems with the series have nothing to do with me not being able to understand what is going on, thank you. Do you genuinely think Doctor Who is the smartest most complex thing I've seen or read in my life.

    I stopped watching DW when I stopped enjoying it in the mid-80's. Likewise, I stopped watching CSI more recently for the same reason. It make no difference to me that others still watch and enjoy a show - anymore than I'd watch X-Factor just because 10,000,000 other people like it.

    And it makes no difference to me if others enjoy something that I haven't, you seem to be under the illusion that anyone that even makes a critism of the series (or an episode) is somehow against others enjoying it.

    Bottom line - it's subjective as to whether or not the show is "good" or not. For me, this is the best series of DW since the show began in 1963 - for others it's the worst. If it doesn't work for you and hasn't worked for months - maybe longer - then you need to either stop watching or - if you fancy the challenge - find a way to get your views to Moffat or the BBC.

    Or give my opinion on an internet board, as long as I'm not trolling, starting countless threads, shouting at people because they liked something I didn't or continually shouting the same thing over and over in thread after thread after thread. In fact it is yourself and a few others that will not allow any criticism whatsoever of the series, even though it is fine for you, and others, to critise episodes you haven't liked..is that how this forum works now moderators?


    I'm not being facetoius in saying that - 50-odd million people don't watch Doctor Who and most of them never tell anyone why

    I''m afraid you are being facetious. Again, I suppose it is fine for you to criticise other episodes and to join threads about Who related topics you haven't liked but but not others if you happen to disagree with them, yes?


    And there are many people that like the show but don't feel the need to tell others, whats your point?

    I notice you berated someone on another thread for daring to criticise the show. You said considering their high post count they were not a regular Who board contributor so they cant have been big fans, yet you joined in May of this year, big fan yourself? You see how easy it is to nit pick in order to belittle someone, you appear to be doing this more and more Minky. As long as people are not trolling there is nothing wrong with voicing dissatisfaction on an internet forum.


    Of course I'm not just going to stop watching the show after a poor run, don't Doctor Who fans stick with it, hell there are people here that stuck with it for 4 series under RTD. I enjoyed The Doctors Daughter, and it looks as if there are at least a couple of stand alone coming up, looking forward to the God Complex, but it seems however according to yourself and others that patrol this Who forum mocking anyone that happens to critise/complaining or even make an personal observation about the arc by calling them dummies. You appear more concerned about labeled people trolls, just how many posts have you made now berating other posters by calling them trolls.

    Your an excellent poster Minky, when talking about the show your posts are interesting, but calling others trolls/dummies if you disagree with them is wrong I'm afraid. The DS Who forum inst being overtaken by rabid anti Moffat series 6 haters, its been over taken by a small group Who fans that will not allow ANY criticism unless it meets their own or is about a previous era/Doctor.
  • TalmaTalma Posts: 10,520
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    IMO whatever people think of series 6, River or anything else, any series that gives us The Doctor's Wife deserves to be crowned in glory and any naff bits quietly forgotten:D
  • ilovedrwho123ilovedrwho123 Posts: 394
    Forum Member
    I think I remember from a matt smith interview that river was in ep 9 with
  • TEDRTEDR Posts: 3,413
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I''m afraid you are being facetious.
    I agree with this sentiment. There is no TV programme that isn't ignored by at least 45m people in the UK, so Doctor Who does very well for its medium.
  • davie1924davie1924 Posts: 2,140
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    It's time to end River Song as Alex Kingston. It's getting very tiresome now.
    Wholeheartedly agree.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 4,952
    Forum Member
    ✭✭✭
    I agree.

    At one stage I wouldn't have minded seeing River as a regular companion I thought she was smart, funny and had an edge to her, a female Capt. Jack,(lets be honest that is basically what she is) but since series 6 I'm of a the mind that enough is enough, sick of the sight of her, couldn't care less about her story past or present any more, as a character she all become dull beyond belief. A character that is now just exposition of an arc, with a few jazzy lines thrown in, nothing more nothing less. A character completely bogged down in exposition and poor poor plotting by the writer/show runner.

    Shame because I do like Alex Kingston's performance and enjoyed it when the character popped up in series 5, in fact she was one of the few highlights of series 5, but now I really could not care less about who she is ,what she will do or why she will do it. The character is now nothing more than tiresome arc exposition, what purpose has she served in any of the adventures she has been in this series beyond pop up and remind us that she is a story arc, a tired, clunky and poorly plotted multi series arc.
    I was about to write something almost identical in reply to an earlier post, until I saw this.

    I couldn't agree more. Moffat has destroyed one of the most appealing and intriguing secondary characters ever to appear in Doctor Who.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 30
    Forum Member
    I enjoyed AGMGTW and LKH immensely but - stepping back and taking a wider view - I feel SM has misfired by making River Song and Melody Pond one and the same. The whole Melody storyline - the abduction and gangerization of Amy, Demon's Run, the kidnapping and indoctrination of baby Melody and the placing of her in Leadworth with Rory and Amy (although there are far too many loose ends in that part of the plot) and (most) of the events of LKH - could have been achieved without Melody being River and, indeed, without River being involved at all.

    That way we would have seen more of Nina Toussaint White, who I thought was very good in the part, and River could have remained an enigma as an occasionally recurring character through several of the doctor's incarnations, which is how the character was originally set up. Other actresses could have been cast as River became ever younger, which would have retained an element of surprise. By tying River Song to Alex Kingston SM has also tied her to Matt Smith's doctor and I don't think they go together all that well.

    This is all only my opinion and I don't want to be told I'm trolling or that I should stop watching the show. I found Series 3 very boring (again, my opinion only) but if I'd given up on it I'd have missed the wonderful Blink and Human Nature!

    One thing that is puzzling me about LKH is this. The chap in the Tesselecta said they took people out at the end of their timelines and, indeed, they seemed to be about to abort the execution of Hitler as being too early, when the Tardis did it for them. When they found they had Melody Pond in their sights however, (and they were very specific that it was Melody Pond who killed the doctor, no mention of River Song) they were prepared to go after her straight away, even though the killing was clearly stated to take place in 2011. Just a plot hole or something more significant?
  • RorschachRorschach Posts: 10,818
    Forum Member
    ✭✭
    So if you were Amy and Rory would you be happy with "We have to let her become who she will become".

    You find out you're pregnant, you have a baby and it's then taken away within hours of her birth. You learn a few months later that you have known her years though as a friend and not a daughter and are then told that's your lot. You have to leave her alone now.

    As a parent would you say "Fair enough" and let that go? Or would you insist the Doctor keeps trying to go back and find the infant Melody so you can raise her from a baby?
Sign In or Register to comment.