That wasn't his only crime though. He did escape from prison and ran away from the authorities for many years...then came crawling back because he was ill!
That is what gets my goat about Ronnie Biggs. I would have been grinning smugly if he'd have been refused entry back into Britain and sent back to enjoy the benefits of Brazilian healthcare.
ronnie never touched him:) and getting hit once with a cosh is hardly a 'savage beating'
the coppers made the train driver milk it, boot polish under the eyes and all that shit
Because I'm currently researching this crime I can quote Jack Mills from the Times on 12th August 1963 -
'I was struck on the head from behind. I collapsed onto my knees and they kept hitting me . How many times they struck me ( on the back of the head) I don't know.....'
He was told to keep his head down,and not look at anyone and was told by one of the 'bandits' 'for god's sake don't say anything, there are some right bastards here. Keep quiet for your own sake.'
Images of Jack Mills are consistent with his version of the assault .
No boot polish required:rolleyes:
Jack Mills was a victim of greedy selfish criminals.
But again, what harm did this do? Did he kill/rape/assault people while on the run? Did he hold up banks? Did he actually commit any other crimes? Or did he just annoy the authorities.
I don't condone people who rob trains or escape prison. But I just think after all this time, his crime.. if he even took part in the assault, was so small that really it's not worth getting upset over compared to some of the pure evil out there.. people who abuse children, or rape, or murder, or intimidate old people in their own homes on a nightly basis.
It irks people that he stuck two fingers up at the authorities (along the lines of 'ha ha, you can't get me!') but when was ill and in need of help, he came crawling back. Sorry, but the man has awful morals and awful integrity. He deserves no sympathy from anyone and most definitely shouldn't be regarded as some type of cheeky "British hero".
I don't think stealing £40m could ever be considered a "small crime". If he served out his sentence, there wouldn't be any issues with him. I don't have an issue, per se, but can understand why some people do.
It irks people that he stuck two fingers up at the authorities (along the lines of 'ha ha, you can't get me!') but when was ill and in need of help, he came crawling back. Sorry, but the man has awful morals and awful integrity. He deserves no sympathy from anyone and most definitely shouldn't be regarded as some type of cheeky "British hero".
I don't think stealing £40m could ever be considered a "small crime"
he stole off the government, they lost face and thats why they made him out to be some 2 bob thug ****
and gilbertoo, what's odd is people will stick up for terrorists, baby killers, and nonces, but go on like ronnies the scum of the earth
i dont get it
Who is sticking up for terrorists, baby killers and nonces?
Jack Mills was a victim of greedy selfish criminals.
He lived to tell the story tho, didn't he? In todays age, you can go out for an innocent drink on a Friday night and end up in a wood box because some pissed up nutter decided you looked at him the wrong way.
I'm not excusing what happened to him and I'm aware he suffered for the rest of his life, I'm just trying to put some perspective on how serious a crime it was.
He lived to tell the story tho, didn't he? In todays age, you can go out for an innocent drink on a Friday night and end up in a wood box because some pissed up nutter decided you looked at him the wrong way.
I'm not excusing what happened to him and I'm aware he suffered for the rest of his life, I'm just trying to put some perspective on how serious a crime it was.
Okay so in your opinion, would stealing £40m today and injuring someone in the process, who then goes onto to suffer for the rest of their life be considered a small crime? Add into the mix that one of the people involved in the crime escapes from prison...
I've never really understood why so many people are so angry at this man. His crime was being part of a group of people who held up a train and happened to cause serious injury to the train driver in the process. Yep, bad stuff.
But there are a LOT worse people out there, people who actually kill other people, who rape other people, who do all sorts of horrible stuff.. and yet Ronnie Biggs is talked about as if people will break out the champagne when he dies. I don't get it. What he did happened 47 years ago. Isn't it time people moved on?
If he had accepted his punishment and served his time, then noone would be interested in him now. However, he chose not to spend his time in jail and lived the high life abroad for as long as he could manage it, so he has never really been properly punished for his crime. That's why people are angry at him.
Okay so in your opinion, would stealing £40m today and injuring someone in the process, who then goes onto to suffer for the rest of their life be considered a small crime? Add into the mix that one of the people involved in the crime escapes from prison...
Would you still expect people to be talking about it in 47 years time?
It's not a small crime no, but my argument is there are a lot worse crimes.. at least on my "serious crime" scale. And I generally rank crimes based on how much harm and hurt the cause others.
Would you still expect people to be talking about it in 47 years time?
It's not a small crime no, but my argument is there are a lot worse crimes.. at least on my "serious crime" scale. And I generally rank crimes based on how much harm and hurt the cause others.
me too, seems a lot of people on here think moneys worth more than human life:rolleyes:
Would you still expect people to be talking about it in 47 years time?
It's not a small crime no, but my argument is there are a lot worse crimes.. at least on my "serious crime" scale. And I generally rank crimes based on how much harm and hurt the cause others.
Well, like for like, today the crime would continue for what, another 45yrs (?) so yes, I think we'd still be talking about it in 47yrs time.
If Biggs served his sentence I don't think anyone would even know who he was now.
he stole off the government, they lost face and thats why they made him out to be some 2 bob thug ****
and gilbertoo, what's odd is people will stick up for terrorists, baby killers, and nonces, but go on like ronnies the scum of the earth
i dont get it
The did not steal from the Government, they stole mail bags, meaning they stole from ordinary people. Do you have any idea what actually happened that day in 63?
Well I do, I never got my 10 shilling postal order for my birthday because of them.
me too, seems a lot of people on here think moneys worth more than human life:rolleyes:
In some ways, the train robbers thought money was worth more than human life. After all, they made an innocent person suffer for the rest of his life, didn't they?
All my argument is people need to let go. It's in the past. Yes, he escaped punishment. Did he go on to reoffend? Did he go on to murder? Did he go on to rape? Did he go on to harm others and their lives? By all accounts, no. He just quietly lived in Brazil, far from the 'high life' myth, relying on his 'fame' to get drinks at the bar from passing tourists.
I'm not saying he should never have gone to prison or anything like that. I just don't see why people get so upset over him 47 years later. If you're going to get upset, get upset over crimes of today, get upset at chavs who feel its acceptable to murder people just for asking them to move on, idiots who get pissed up and then punch someone dead on nights out, people who abuse kids, people who terrorise people in their own homes.. plenty of people out there committing far worse crimes that impact society and people in gneeral who deserve the concern you show Ronnie Biggs. Many of whom get light sentences, get released, and then go on to reoffend.
biggsy served 10 year, which is what all the other robbers got
Yep...and what other robbers' name rolls off the tongue...? I can't think of any other than another absconder (Buster Edwards). Why? Because they served their sentences a long, long time ago.
Yep...and what other robbers' name rolls off the tongue...? I can't think of any other than another absconder (Buster Edwards). Why? Because they served their sentences a long, long time ago.
so its about revenge then? Funny aint it, the same ones who hate biggsy are the ones who say revenge is bad, and call people who want tougher sentences 'bloodthirsty'
At 80 years of age he is said to be living quietly. I have no doubt that when he goes there will be the usual press outcry but legally he has served his sentence and is entitled to all of the care he is receiving.
so its about revenge then? Funny aint it, the same ones who hate biggsy are the ones who say revenge is bad, and call people who want tougher sentences 'bloodthirsty'
Revenge? What are you going on about? I'm a bit "meh" about him to be honest. The only thing I disagree with is the opinion that his crimes weren't big.
I'm curious, do you think all the train robbers are "British heroes" or just Biggs...?
Ronald Biggs was a thief for most of his life up to the GTR. He'd served several prison sentences. In the few years leading up to the crime he had been clean and was working as a carpenter.
I think the train robbers were and are still admired by some because of the audacity of what they did. It was government money and the country, at the time, was pissed off with the government. Everyone was just coming out of the other end of a 20 year period of real austerity - rationing of goods had only ended a few years earlier and throughout that time almost everyone had turned to criminals and the black market for a little bit of extra here and there.
Yes Jack Mills was coshed and all of the robbers have since stated that the incident was very regrettable. No consolation to Mr Mills or his family I'll admit - but he was up and walking around minutes after it happened and there's no evidence to suggest it had anything to do with his death from a completely un-related illness several years later.
As for Biggs escaping - I've always maintained that he was right to take the opportunity when it was put in front of him. He was facing a minimum of 20+ years in prison as the parole system had yet to be introduced. 30 years was unprecedented for the sort of crime he had committed - people weren't even getting that for murder, attempted murder, serious GBH, spying etc. The conditions imposed on the robbers in jail were also worse than other prisoners had. The lights in their cells were never turned off and they were woken by malicious screws every 30 minutes through the night. So presented with an opportunity to get away - and having the equivalent in today's money of £3m on the outside I'd be surprised if anyone was to refuse the chance.
After he escaped he went to Australia and settled with his family. Again he was working as a carpenter and had made new friends in the town where he was living. After Bruce Reynolds was arrested in 1969 the GTR hit the headlines again - and Biggs photograph was published in an Australian newspaper. Someone spotted him and reported it. He managed to escape on a ship and made his way to Brazil - without his family, who remained in Australia. Some months later his 12 year old son was killed in a car accident. Biggs obviously could not attend the funeral. A fate similar to that of fellow robber Thomas Wisbey who's daughter died while he was serving his sentence and the authorities refused to release him for the funeral.
The media attention Biggs got in Brazil was not of his own making initially. Having a son to support and little means of income he saw it right to accept payment for his story and the various recording deals etc.
He served overall the same amount of time in prison as the rest of the gang - including those who had also escaped from prison, or evaded capture for many years. Nobody did him any favours by releasing him when they did.
I don't admire Ronald Biggs at all but I think his story is very interesting. He's now a harmless old man. He's never done any harm to women or children and has suffered quite a bit throughout his life since the GTR. I think he has more than paid a price for his part in the robbery.
so its about revenge then? Funny aint it, the same ones who hate biggsy are the ones who say revenge is bad, and call people who want tougher sentences 'bloodthirsty'
He is the reason this is still talked about. He stuck his fingers up to the Country, until he needed us, then came crawling back.
I think he expected to be given a tap on the wrist, and then be looked after, but there would have been an outcry if that happened, so he served his sentence, which I'm happy with.
He was just another knob who was happy to steal from others, but he promoted himself as bigtime, which is why the publicity is there.
Some fools treat him as a hero because of it.
The country is full of similar villains today. Do you support what they do?
Babs is out with the Krays.
Lovely men, shook your hand before they murdered you.
They only murdered their own.
You could leave your front door unlocked back then.
Comments
That is what gets my goat about Ronnie Biggs. I would have been grinning smugly if he'd have been refused entry back into Britain and sent back to enjoy the benefits of Brazilian healthcare.
Because I'm currently researching this crime I can quote Jack Mills from the Times on 12th August 1963 -
'I was struck on the head from behind. I collapsed onto my knees and they kept hitting me . How many times they struck me ( on the back of the head) I don't know.....'
He was told to keep his head down,and not look at anyone and was told by one of the 'bandits' 'for god's sake don't say anything, there are some right bastards here. Keep quiet for your own sake.'
Images of Jack Mills are consistent with his version of the assault .
No boot polish required:rolleyes:
Jack Mills was a victim of greedy selfish criminals.
It irks people that he stuck two fingers up at the authorities (along the lines of 'ha ha, you can't get me!') but when was ill and in need of help, he came crawling back. Sorry, but the man has awful morals and awful integrity. He deserves no sympathy from anyone and most definitely shouldn't be regarded as some type of cheeky "British hero".
I don't think stealing £40m could ever be considered a "small crime". If he served out his sentence, there wouldn't be any issues with him. I don't have an issue, per se, but can understand why some people do.
'a perma ban beckons'
psychic are ya?
Who is sticking up for terrorists, baby killers and nonces?
Not psychic, just call it a hunch...
He lived to tell the story tho, didn't he? In todays age, you can go out for an innocent drink on a Friday night and end up in a wood box because some pissed up nutter decided you looked at him the wrong way.
I'm not excusing what happened to him and I'm aware he suffered for the rest of his life, I'm just trying to put some perspective on how serious a crime it was.
Okay so in your opinion, would stealing £40m today and injuring someone in the process, who then goes onto to suffer for the rest of their life be considered a small crime? Add into the mix that one of the people involved in the crime escapes from prison...
If he had accepted his punishment and served his time, then noone would be interested in him now. However, he chose not to spend his time in jail and lived the high life abroad for as long as he could manage it, so he has never really been properly punished for his crime. That's why people are angry at him.
Would you still expect people to be talking about it in 47 years time?
It's not a small crime no, but my argument is there are a lot worse crimes.. at least on my "serious crime" scale. And I generally rank crimes based on how much harm and hurt the cause others.
me too, seems a lot of people on here think moneys worth more than human life:rolleyes:
Well, like for like, today the crime would continue for what, another 45yrs (?) so yes, I think we'd still be talking about it in 47yrs time.
If Biggs served his sentence I don't think anyone would even know who he was now.
The did not steal from the Government, they stole mail bags, meaning they stole from ordinary people. Do you have any idea what actually happened that day in 63?
Well I do, I never got my 10 shilling postal order for my birthday because of them.
In some ways, the train robbers thought money was worth more than human life. After all, they made an innocent person suffer for the rest of his life, didn't they?
biggsy served 10 year, which is what all the other robbers got
I'm not saying he should never have gone to prison or anything like that. I just don't see why people get so upset over him 47 years later. If you're going to get upset, get upset over crimes of today, get upset at chavs who feel its acceptable to murder people just for asking them to move on, idiots who get pissed up and then punch someone dead on nights out, people who abuse kids, people who terrorise people in their own homes.. plenty of people out there committing far worse crimes that impact society and people in gneeral who deserve the concern you show Ronnie Biggs. Many of whom get light sentences, get released, and then go on to reoffend.
Yep...and what other robbers' name rolls off the tongue...? I can't think of any other than another absconder (Buster Edwards). Why? Because they served their sentences a long, long time ago.
so its about revenge then? Funny aint it, the same ones who hate biggsy are the ones who say revenge is bad, and call people who want tougher sentences 'bloodthirsty'
Let's try and get this back on topic and not turn it into a pro/anti Biggs thread.
Ronnie was released on compassionate grounds and moved into a care home in Barnet, Hertfordshire.
Barnet Times report
I know that subsequently he was admitted into Barnet Hospital on a couple of occasions suffering from chest pains, most recently in May of this year.
Daily Mail report
At 80 years of age he is said to be living quietly. I have no doubt that when he goes there will be the usual press outcry but legally he has served his sentence and is entitled to all of the care he is receiving.
Revenge? What are you going on about? I'm a bit "meh" about him to be honest. The only thing I disagree with is the opinion that his crimes weren't big.
I'm curious, do you think all the train robbers are "British heroes" or just Biggs...?
I think the train robbers were and are still admired by some because of the audacity of what they did. It was government money and the country, at the time, was pissed off with the government. Everyone was just coming out of the other end of a 20 year period of real austerity - rationing of goods had only ended a few years earlier and throughout that time almost everyone had turned to criminals and the black market for a little bit of extra here and there.
Yes Jack Mills was coshed and all of the robbers have since stated that the incident was very regrettable. No consolation to Mr Mills or his family I'll admit - but he was up and walking around minutes after it happened and there's no evidence to suggest it had anything to do with his death from a completely un-related illness several years later.
As for Biggs escaping - I've always maintained that he was right to take the opportunity when it was put in front of him. He was facing a minimum of 20+ years in prison as the parole system had yet to be introduced. 30 years was unprecedented for the sort of crime he had committed - people weren't even getting that for murder, attempted murder, serious GBH, spying etc. The conditions imposed on the robbers in jail were also worse than other prisoners had. The lights in their cells were never turned off and they were woken by malicious screws every 30 minutes through the night. So presented with an opportunity to get away - and having the equivalent in today's money of £3m on the outside I'd be surprised if anyone was to refuse the chance.
After he escaped he went to Australia and settled with his family. Again he was working as a carpenter and had made new friends in the town where he was living. After Bruce Reynolds was arrested in 1969 the GTR hit the headlines again - and Biggs photograph was published in an Australian newspaper. Someone spotted him and reported it. He managed to escape on a ship and made his way to Brazil - without his family, who remained in Australia. Some months later his 12 year old son was killed in a car accident. Biggs obviously could not attend the funeral. A fate similar to that of fellow robber Thomas Wisbey who's daughter died while he was serving his sentence and the authorities refused to release him for the funeral.
The media attention Biggs got in Brazil was not of his own making initially. Having a son to support and little means of income he saw it right to accept payment for his story and the various recording deals etc.
He served overall the same amount of time in prison as the rest of the gang - including those who had also escaped from prison, or evaded capture for many years. Nobody did him any favours by releasing him when they did.
I don't admire Ronald Biggs at all but I think his story is very interesting. He's now a harmless old man. He's never done any harm to women or children and has suffered quite a bit throughout his life since the GTR. I think he has more than paid a price for his part in the robbery.
He is the reason this is still talked about. He stuck his fingers up to the Country, until he needed us, then came crawling back.
I think he expected to be given a tap on the wrist, and then be looked after, but there would have been an outcry if that happened, so he served his sentence, which I'm happy with.
He was just another knob who was happy to steal from others, but he promoted himself as bigtime, which is why the publicity is there.
Some fools treat him as a hero because of it.
The country is full of similar villains today. Do you support what they do?
Babs is out with the Krays.
Lovely men, shook your hand before they murdered you.
They only murdered their own.
You could leave your front door unlocked back then.