He said very clearly why - because he didn't want to see her face. So because of his own feelings, he brushes aside his nobility and throws her out into an extremely dangerous position with apparently no regard at all for her safety. That kind of self centred action is not worthy of King Arthur imo. Shows he's got a long way to go yet before he's the great king Merlin wants him to be.
Why should he have regard for her safety? From his point of view she's betrayed him with someone he trusted, won't tell him why, humiliated him in front of his people and destroyed all his immediate plans for happiness with a wife at his side who will support and counsel him. It's a lot to expect any man faced with that, let alone a king used to absolute power, to then say 'Oh don't worry dear, here's the fare to the next village.'
In the terms of how these things go she really is lucky not to have been executed.
I think what has upset a lot of people from what I've read is how it simply isn't the sort of man they want Arthur to be. He should be better than that and be able to put aside his personal feelings to do what is best for Gwen - even if it was just arranging for her to have somewhere to go. Instead it was all about his feelings. His anger may be understandable but it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. And it's very difficult to see any equality in their relationship - she has to wait for him, she has to accept it when he dumps her for shoddy reasons after four years together, she has to leave when he banishes her... And of course the fact he's king makes a difference but it's not really in the spirit of what Camelot is all about (round table, equality etc...)
I think this episode was so sad for Merlin because not only did he lose two friends, again he's seen that Arthur is still a long way from the man he wants him to be.
I think what has upset a lot of people from what I've read is how it simply isn't the sort of man they want Arthur to be. He should be better than that and be able to put aside his personal feelings to do what is best for Gwen - even if it was just arranging for her to have somewhere to go. Instead it was all about his feelings. His anger may be understandable but it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. And it's very difficult to see any equality in their relationship - she has to wait for him, she has to accept it when he dumps her for shoddy reasons after four years together, she has to leave when he banishes her... And of course the fact he's king makes a difference but it's not really in the spirit of what Camelot is all about (round table, equality etc...)
I think this episode was so sad for Merlin because not only did he lose two friends, again he's seen that Arthur is still a long way from the man he wants him to be.
I think people seem to be looking at it from a 21 century perspective and using 'equality' as what it means now rather than 'we can all have our say hence the Round Table but don't forget I'm still King and make the decisions'. What Gwen did could have jeopardised his position as king (as was intended) as if the people got the idea he couldn't even stop the woman he was supposed to marry going off with one of his knights then maybe he really wasn't a very good judge of character to start with. Add that to all his personal anger and humiliation and despite his intentions to be rule in a fairer way than his father, I think Arthur was quite reasonable by the standards of the established framework.
He said very clearly why - because he didn't want to see her face. So because of his own feelings, he brushes aside his nobility and throws her out into an extremely dangerous position with apparently no regard at all for her safety. That kind of self centred action is not worthy of King Arthur imo. Shows he's got a long way to go yet before he's the great king Merlin wants him to be. Again, I don't care about that as long as they bother to show progression in him later.
The other interesting and rather depressing point is that not one of Gwen's supposed friends actually questioned her kissing Lancelot. Not once did any of them (especially Gaius and Merlin who knew Lancelot wasn't right) wonder why she did it and question how out of character it was. In fact, the ONLY person who knew that Gwen, having made her decision to be with Arthur, wouldn't act on her feelings for Lancelot was Morgana! She was the only one who had faith in her goodness.
I'm sure he will make progress in the first season he was really arrogant! in his defense I'll say that maybe he has faith that gwen can handle herself
I thought that merlin suspected she was enchanted or I got it wrong?:o about her other friends it's just a question about the lenght of the episode imagine how much time could require them questioning her? and I don't think she was keen to explaine herself to them she didn't what to think herself
What Gwen did could have jeopardised his position as king (as was intended) as if the people got the idea he couldn't even stop the woman he was supposed to marry going off with one of his knights then maybe he really wasn't a very good judge of character to start with.
Yes but he made it very clear it wasn't about that for him at all. It was entirely about his own pain. He didn't make that decision based upon saving face or keeping his position. He made it very clear it was simply because he didn't want to face the emotions of what had happened. In a very similar way to how Uther refused to face what had happened with Igraine and started the whole Purge!
Again, it's understandable but I think the king Merlin is trying to make him into would actually push aside his own pain for the sake of the other person. King Arthur puts his kingdom and people before himself. It's left Gwen in a horrible and dangerous position where she has no one and nothing. He says he still loves her and yet he's thrown her out of any safety she has because his pain is more important to him than that...
I hope they deal with it well when she returns because he has some apologising to do too.
I thought that merlin suspected she was enchanted or I got it wrong?
Nope. It was all about how he suspected Lancelot. It's a pity that he and Gaius didn't at least talk between them about the fact she might have been enchanted too. It did unfortunately make it look like they completely believed she would have kissed him like that which is more than a little sad.
I think people seem to be looking at it from a 21 century perspective and using 'equality' as what it means now rather than 'we can all have our say hence the Round Table but don't forget I'm still King and make the decisions'. What Gwen did could have jeopardised his position as king (as was intended) as if the people got the idea he couldn't even stop the woman he was supposed to marry going off with one of his knights then maybe he really wasn't a very good judge of character to start with. Add that to all his personal anger and humiliation and despite his intentions to be rule in a fairer way than his father, I think Arthur was quite reasonable by the standards of the established framework.
ITA. People seem to forget that the punishment that Uther would have given Gwen was death. As harsh as banishment was, Arthur did spare Gwen life when many others were calling for her death. He was hurt and angry. He even gave Gwen a chance to explain, she could not so he lashed out. If Giaus had mentioned magic as a possible explanation, perhaps Arthur would have given a second thought to what happened.
I found it hard to believe that Gwen's brother did not accompany her. He let her leave the castle by herself. Some brother!
This was one of the best episodes of the whole series. I absolutely loved it.
Also, why did Merlin let Gwen walk away at the end without speaking to her? The implication was he had waited outside her house all night, keeping vigil as he did for Arthur when Uther died, yet when she came out, he just stared at her. It almost looked as though he was condemning her. He wasn't, was he?
I don't think he looked condemning at all. I think perhaps he'd wanted to say goodbye to her, but when it came to it they didn't need words. She knew he'd come as a friend.
I don't think he looked condemning at all. I think perhaps he'd wanted to say goodbye to her, but when it came to it they didn't need words. She knew he'd come as a friend.
I agree. I think Merlin was tempted to speak and then realised there was nothing he could say. Also, I always think of the time frame the writers are working in. There probably wasn't time for a discussion between Gwen and Merlin. The episode was already about 50 minutes long anyway. My only criticism was that perhaps we could've had this as a two-part story somehow as it was such a major development.
Ugh. He's so incredibly fit! Second only to Lancelot.
I agree. I think Merlin was tempted to speak and then realised there was nothing he could say. Also, I always think of the time frame the writers are working in. There probably wasn't time for a discussion between Gwen and Merlin. The episode was already about 50 minutes long anyway. My only criticism was that perhaps we could've had this as a two-part story somehow as it was such a major development.
If it had been a two-parter we would have seen more of Lancelot, and if that really is it for him I certainly wouldn't have minded:)
ITA. People seem to forget that the punishment that Uther would have given Gwen was death. As harsh as banishment was, Arthur did spare Gwen life when many others were calling for her death.
But has he though? Because he may have spared her death by execution but realistically she wouldn't last five minutes out there by herself. Obviously the writers won't go killing Gwen off through some unfortunate inccident as she wonders the forest alone, but Arthur must surely know that is the fate which would await her. How many times have we heard characters talk of the dangers of leaving the castle by yourself? Even Arthur won't go out without his knights unless he has no choice. Seems to me like Arthur has knowingly sent her to her death at the hands of somebody other than the Camelot executioner, which means he hasn't spared her life at all - And just because the writers won't go down that road it doesn't mean it wouldn't happen.
NB: Thanks to the tinkersmum2 who pointed out that they use different horses. I must admit the jousting contest confused me first time around as I really couldn't figure out who was supposed to be riding what horse.
As per a previous post - I noticed the lazy continuity with the horses too! Probably because I have horses myself so I was watching closely. Also, Santiage Cabrera can actually ride, so he probably doing a lot of the riding himself.
Its hard sometimes to use the same horses all the time, espically in the jousting scenes.. because what you see can be a snippet of a entire 2 days filming, which is unfair on the horses if you use the same ones.. espically if they are working hard jousting.
If you watch the other scenes with them on horseback they ride the same horse, even with the unavoidable French/Welsh horse devide the horses are matched to look very simular from both countrys.
Santiago can ride but with the jousting unless you can see his face, its not him.. due to to much risk.. jousting is very much a high risk sport, even to trained stunt men
They are not using the actors in shots when you can't see their face. When you see Merlin or Arthur riding on a horse from behind or from far away, or closeup on hand etc, it's not them.
Exactly.. unless you can see their faces your pretty safe to say its not them riding.
Great episode. Full of romance, drama, and betrayal. Arthur and Gwen are such a wonderful couple. I love them and just know that they will find their way back to each other.
Gwen did throw the bracelet in the prison cell so maybe somehow Merlin will figure out that was enchanted.
ITA. People seem to forget that the punishment that Uther would have given Gwen was death. As harsh as banishment was, Arthur did spare Gwen life when many others were calling for her death. He was hurt and angry. He even gave Gwen a chance to explain, she could not so he lashed out. If Giaus had mentioned magic as a possible explanation, perhaps Arthur would have given a second thought to what happened.
I found it hard to believe that Gwen's brother did not accompany her. He let her leave the castle by herself. Some brother!
This was one of the best episodes of the whole series. I absolutely loved it.
I agree absolutely with your post, except for your take on Gwens brother.
He swore an oath when he was made a knight, and after all, he really thought his sister had betrayed Arthur, so from his point of view, she deserved her fate.......
I was glued to the screen with this episode, and Angel got the balance between the real love she has for Arthur, and the artificial lust she felt for Lancelot spot on.
It is the legend, but Merlin has always been loose with the details. I think the audience mostly wants Arthur and Gwen to be together, so that is what the writers must write.
I don't.:D I find it all much too forced. Chemistry should be natural and that makes me root for the relationship. Arthur/Gwen just makes me snore. Shame, because individually they're good characters, but they just don't work as a couple.
I also have issue with the fact that she could only have feelings for Lancelot with the aid of magic. Huh? Wasn't Gwen in pieces at the end of 4.2 because of Lancelot and now he's (for all she knows) back from the dead, she doesn't give a damn. This really jarred for me.
Not only did it wipe out everything that had happened between Gwen/Lancelot in the past, it also makes Gwen look like some kind of Saint figure, someone who will do no wrong, unless she's under a spell. God forbid, they actually make Gwen a flawed character.
Why does everyone think life outside the castle is so dangerous? For a man such as Arthur, with all his enemies, sure, but for an average peasant, I don't get the impression every day is a fight for survival. I am sure Gwen can look after herself, and I didn't get any impression that, in banishing her, Arthur was forcing her into a dangerous situation. Mind you, she sure doesn't want to run into Morgana.
Why does everyone think life outside the castle is so dangerous? For a man such as Arthur, with all his enemies, sure, but for an average peasant, I don't get the impression every day is a fight for survival. I am sure Gwen can look after herself, and I didn't get any impression that, in banishing her, Arthur was forcing her into a dangerous situation. Mind you, she sure doesn't want to run into Morgana.
But it isnt JUST from the castle though is it, but from the entire kingdom, which would be the traditional way of thinking about banishment?.
How many friends would Gwen have in other kingdoms, especially as Arthurs enemies would see Gwen as an easy way of putting pressure on an relatively untried monarch which Arthur really is?.
I am really looking forward to Gwens return (episode 11) I wonder how Arthur will react when he sees her? angry at first? or if they will just be 'oh i missed you'
anyone any ideas?
I think the king Merlin is trying to make him into would actually push aside his own pain for the sake of the other person. King Arthur puts his kingdom and people before himself. It's left Gwen in a horrible and dangerous position where she has no one and nothing. He says he still loves her and yet he's thrown her out of any safety she has because his pain is more important to him than that...
I hope they deal with it well when she returns because he has some apologising to do too.
But as this isn't the end of the series, let alone the programme, it's possible that the entire point of that part of the episode was to show that Arthur didn't become this perfect king as soon as he put the crown upon his head. He doesn't know what to do, and though Uther probably did educate him a little in the ways of leadership, he's pretty much on his own. Bloody hell, I know people who've had bigger breakdowns when one or other of their parents have died, and they don't have to cope with taking over the running of an entire kingdom.
Arthur is going to make mistakes as the result of rash decisions and his own emotions at the beginning of the rule - any of us would, I think - but there is still time for him to become the great ruler expected of him from legend. Indeed, maybe when Gwen is brought back, she could be the catalyst to make him see that he can be this great, noble ruler and with her by his side, she could give him the strength to make the right decisions for his people. Yes, it's a bit saccharine and fairytale, but judging from some of the posts on here, that's what a lot of people want to see.
I agree. I think Merlin was tempted to speak and then realised there was nothing he could say. Also, I always think of the time frame the writers are working in. There probably wasn't time for a discussion between Gwen and Merlin. The episode was already about 50 minutes long anyway. My only criticism was that perhaps we could've had this as a two-part story somehow as it was such a major development.
BIB: I totally agree. While I loved the episode, I did wonder if it was going to be spread across two fifty-minute episodes, and I think this would have probably benefitted the story.
What some of you say is very true. Arthur will make mistakes as he learns how to be King. So far, he has been much better than Uther, who was ready to execute someone every episode. Even with Agravaine there, Camelot doesn't have that oppressive atmosphere like it did under Uther. I personally think that Arthur is moving in the right direction.
What I am wondering is how Merlin makes the crossover to his recognized sorcerer and chief adviser. Maybe the season finale will shed more light on that.
Comments
Why should he have regard for her safety? From his point of view she's betrayed him with someone he trusted, won't tell him why, humiliated him in front of his people and destroyed all his immediate plans for happiness with a wife at his side who will support and counsel him. It's a lot to expect any man faced with that, let alone a king used to absolute power, to then say 'Oh don't worry dear, here's the fare to the next village.'
In the terms of how these things go she really is lucky not to have been executed.
I think what has upset a lot of people from what I've read is how it simply isn't the sort of man they want Arthur to be. He should be better than that and be able to put aside his personal feelings to do what is best for Gwen - even if it was just arranging for her to have somewhere to go. Instead it was all about his feelings. His anger may be understandable but it doesn't mean it's the right thing to do. And it's very difficult to see any equality in their relationship - she has to wait for him, she has to accept it when he dumps her for shoddy reasons after four years together, she has to leave when he banishes her... And of course the fact he's king makes a difference but it's not really in the spirit of what Camelot is all about (round table, equality etc...)
I think this episode was so sad for Merlin because not only did he lose two friends, again he's seen that Arthur is still a long way from the man he wants him to be.
Yes!
I'd find a way of using them
Don't be ridiculous - he'd do nothing that would risk damaging his hair.
I think people seem to be looking at it from a 21 century perspective and using 'equality' as what it means now rather than 'we can all have our say hence the Round Table but don't forget I'm still King and make the decisions'. What Gwen did could have jeopardised his position as king (as was intended) as if the people got the idea he couldn't even stop the woman he was supposed to marry going off with one of his knights then maybe he really wasn't a very good judge of character to start with. Add that to all his personal anger and humiliation and despite his intentions to be rule in a fairer way than his father, I think Arthur was quite reasonable by the standards of the established framework.
I'm sure he will make progress in the first season he was really arrogant! in his defense I'll say that maybe he has faith that gwen can handle herself
I thought that merlin suspected she was enchanted or I got it wrong?:o about her other friends it's just a question about the lenght of the episode imagine how much time could require them questioning her? and I don't think she was keen to explaine herself to them she didn't what to think herself
TALMA I agree with you
Yes but he made it very clear it wasn't about that for him at all. It was entirely about his own pain. He didn't make that decision based upon saving face or keeping his position. He made it very clear it was simply because he didn't want to face the emotions of what had happened. In a very similar way to how Uther refused to face what had happened with Igraine and started the whole Purge!
Again, it's understandable but I think the king Merlin is trying to make him into would actually push aside his own pain for the sake of the other person. King Arthur puts his kingdom and people before himself. It's left Gwen in a horrible and dangerous position where she has no one and nothing. He says he still loves her and yet he's thrown her out of any safety she has because his pain is more important to him than that...
I hope they deal with it well when she returns because he has some apologising to do too.
Nope. It was all about how he suspected Lancelot. It's a pity that he and Gaius didn't at least talk between them about the fact she might have been enchanted too. It did unfortunately make it look like they completely believed she would have kissed him like that which is more than a little sad.
ITA. People seem to forget that the punishment that Uther would have given Gwen was death. As harsh as banishment was, Arthur did spare Gwen life when many others were calling for her death. He was hurt and angry. He even gave Gwen a chance to explain, she could not so he lashed out. If Giaus had mentioned magic as a possible explanation, perhaps Arthur would have given a second thought to what happened.
I found it hard to believe that Gwen's brother did not accompany her. He let her leave the castle by herself. Some brother!
This was one of the best episodes of the whole series. I absolutely loved it.
I don't think he looked condemning at all. I think perhaps he'd wanted to say goodbye to her, but when it came to it they didn't need words. She knew he'd come as a friend.
Ugh. He's so incredibly fit! Second only to Lancelot.
I agree. I think Merlin was tempted to speak and then realised there was nothing he could say. Also, I always think of the time frame the writers are working in. There probably wasn't time for a discussion between Gwen and Merlin. The episode was already about 50 minutes long anyway. My only criticism was that perhaps we could've had this as a two-part story somehow as it was such a major development.
If it had been a two-parter we would have seen more of Lancelot, and if that really is it for him I certainly wouldn't have minded:)
But has he though? Because he may have spared her death by execution but realistically she wouldn't last five minutes out there by herself. Obviously the writers won't go killing Gwen off through some unfortunate inccident as she wonders the forest alone, but Arthur must surely know that is the fate which would await her. How many times have we heard characters talk of the dangers of leaving the castle by yourself? Even Arthur won't go out without his knights unless he has no choice. Seems to me like Arthur has knowingly sent her to her death at the hands of somebody other than the Camelot executioner, which means he hasn't spared her life at all - And just because the writers won't go down that road it doesn't mean it wouldn't happen.
Can't stand that person who played her with her bad acting & not exactly personable.:rolleyes:
Its hard sometimes to use the same horses all the time, espically in the jousting scenes.. because what you see can be a snippet of a entire 2 days filming, which is unfair on the horses if you use the same ones.. espically if they are working hard jousting.
If you watch the other scenes with them on horseback they ride the same horse, even with the unavoidable French/Welsh horse devide the horses are matched to look very simular from both countrys.
Santiago can ride but with the jousting unless you can see his face, its not him.. due to to much risk.. jousting is very much a high risk sport, even to trained stunt men
Exactly.. unless you can see their faces your pretty safe to say its not them riding.
Totally agree, loved it
I agree absolutely with your post, except for your take on Gwens brother.
He swore an oath when he was made a knight, and after all, he really thought his sister had betrayed Arthur, so from his point of view, she deserved her fate.......
I was glued to the screen with this episode, and Angel got the balance between the real love she has for Arthur, and the artificial lust she felt for Lancelot spot on.
Love the heaving bosom Angel.......:o
I don't.:D I find it all much too forced. Chemistry should be natural and that makes me root for the relationship. Arthur/Gwen just makes me snore. Shame, because individually they're good characters, but they just don't work as a couple.
I also have issue with the fact that she could only have feelings for Lancelot with the aid of magic. Huh? Wasn't Gwen in pieces at the end of 4.2 because of Lancelot and now he's (for all she knows) back from the dead, she doesn't give a damn. This really jarred for me.
Not only did it wipe out everything that had happened between Gwen/Lancelot in the past, it also makes Gwen look like some kind of Saint figure, someone who will do no wrong, unless she's under a spell. God forbid, they actually make Gwen a flawed character.
But it isnt JUST from the castle though is it, but from the entire kingdom, which would be the traditional way of thinking about banishment?.
How many friends would Gwen have in other kingdoms, especially as Arthurs enemies would see Gwen as an easy way of putting pressure on an relatively untried monarch which Arthur really is?.
anyone any ideas?
But as this isn't the end of the series, let alone the programme, it's possible that the entire point of that part of the episode was to show that Arthur didn't become this perfect king as soon as he put the crown upon his head. He doesn't know what to do, and though Uther probably did educate him a little in the ways of leadership, he's pretty much on his own. Bloody hell, I know people who've had bigger breakdowns when one or other of their parents have died, and they don't have to cope with taking over the running of an entire kingdom.
Arthur is going to make mistakes as the result of rash decisions and his own emotions at the beginning of the rule - any of us would, I think - but there is still time for him to become the great ruler expected of him from legend. Indeed, maybe when Gwen is brought back, she could be the catalyst to make him see that he can be this great, noble ruler and with her by his side, she could give him the strength to make the right decisions for his people. Yes, it's a bit saccharine and fairytale, but judging from some of the posts on here, that's what a lot of people want to see.
BIB: I totally agree. While I loved the episode, I did wonder if it was going to be spread across two fifty-minute episodes, and I think this would have probably benefitted the story.
What I am wondering is how Merlin makes the crossover to his recognized sorcerer and chief adviser. Maybe the season finale will shed more light on that.