Justice for Jade - Dangerous dogs petition

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  • ÆnimaÆnima Posts: 38,548
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    I would sign, but I don't like to just hand out my email.
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    not only me, friends, family people i came across.. not difficult realy when he was :)


    fair point though, unless you have owned a staff you would know what i am talking about

    Its not only Staffs, its any dog! At the end of the day, only you know your dog, people you meet in the street or park don't know anything about you or the dog. Even though you think you know your dog, you don't know it as well as you think! You should never trust your dog, particularly around children!

    I am a dog lover, owner and BIPDT qualified dog trainer and had my dog trained to army/police dog standard! He would obey all my commands and would not even move without my telling him! However, he was never unmuzzled in public, always put straight on a lead if there were people about and I never assumed people were ok with dogs!

    Whether a dog is dangerous is entirely down to perception, not fact!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,620
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    Pull2Open wrote: »
    Its not only Staffs, its any dog! At the end of the day, only you know your dog, people you meet in the street or park don't know anything about you or the dog. Even though you think you know your dog, you don't know it as well as you think! You should never trust your dog, particularly around children!

    I am a dog lover, owner and BIPDT qualified dog trainer and had my dog trained to army/police dog standard! He would obey all my commands and would not even move without my telling him! However, he was never unmuzzled in public, always put straight on a lead if there were people about and I never assumed people were ok with dogs!

    Whether a dog is dangerous is entirely down to perception, not fact!


    i never said i trusted any dog... he was always on a lead in parks/walks etc, i am not stupid, i said he was a friendly dog, any dog can switch i have said this before...... one should always been on alert with dogs around children that is any dog
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,620
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    Ænima wrote: »
    I would sign, but I don't like to just hand out my email.

    i am with you there, i signed a petition for the IDS living on £53 a week, every hour i get an email for some other crap now:mad:

    i would do a dumping email addy :)
  • BellaRosaBellaRosa Posts: 36,512
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    Stiggles wrote: »
    Oh dear god! Probably the most wrong post i have ever seen on here!!

    You cannot always tell when a dog is about to attack!!!

    Obviously some people cannot :rolleyes: It's not rocket science to be able to tell!
  • MR. MacavityMR. Macavity Posts: 3,876
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    BellaRosa wrote: »
    Obviously some people cannot :rolleyes: It's not rocket science to be able to tell!

    I would be very surprised if even the most experienced dog handler could make such a claim - always?

    An interesting thread - usual range of opinions some of them almost laughably ill-conceived I must say.

    In terms of fatalities and serious injuries almost none of the measures suggested - many of which are in fact going to become law in any case - would have prevented the Jade incident or other very, very similar ones happening. The fatalities in particular in the last few years have ALL occured in the dogs home where they have been left unattended by their owner with someone else in the house - but looking through the thread I can't find anyone suggesting that that should be made specifically illegal? The lack of a microchip or licence for the dog etc, was not to blame for what happened.

    It may make owners legally more accountable I guess, but as someone who considers themselves a responsible owner I know in my heart and mind that legal responsibility and conscientious ownership are two completely things - the former will not necessarily lead to the latter.

    In my experience dogs and legislation do not mix very well together.
  • scottie2121scottie2121 Posts: 11,284
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    molliepops wrote: »
    I don't think the petition is a good idea at all we cannot make laws in knee jerk reactive way. Bad legislation is made that way like the DDA which has helped no one and caused untold suffering.

    Not sure why you would say this although the DDA was replaced in 2010 by the Equality Act.
  • dee123dee123 Posts: 46,197
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    So he lost a child in an terrible incident. And? What gives him the right to wanna change everything when it comes to dog ownership. Sadly bad things happen. Someone could go outside and get hit by a bus. He should just go grieve in private.

    Yep. On this topic i'm a pretty heartless p***k. Come at me.
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    Not sure why you would say this although the DDA was replaced in 2010 by the Equality Act.

    Not sure if this was supposed to be a joke but I'll clarify anyway!

    As this thread is about a dog attack, the reference to the DDA is not to do with the Disability DIscrimination Act but the 1991 Dangerous Dogs Act which us currently being amended!
  • Bio MaxBio Max Posts: 2,207
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    dee123 wrote: »
    So he lost a child in an terrible incident. And? What gives him the right to wanna change everything when it comes to dog ownership. Sadly bad things happen. Someone could go outside and get hit by a bus. He should just go grieve in private.

    Yep. On this topic i'm a pretty heartless p***k. Come at me.

    Watch out everyone - we have a bad ass in the thread
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    dee123 wrote: »
    So he lost a child in an terrible incident. And? What gives him the right to wanna change everything when it comes to dog ownership. Sadly bad things happen. Someone could go outside and get hit by a bus. He should just go grieve in private.

    Yep. On this topic i'm a pretty heartless p***k. Come at me.

    Its a moot point anyway, the DDA is being amended to include private property!
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    Not sure why you would say this although the DDA was replaced in 2010 by the Equality Act.

    Because dogs have been taken off their owners just because they look a certain way, no proof or history of any biting, no proof they are what the rather ill educated dog wardens etc say they are. They then cost both tax payers and owners a fortune to fight it out in court, while the dog is kept in awful surroundings often scarred for life by their experience.

    Nearly lost my old Benny when this legislation came in he was a lakeland cross jack russel, lovely with everyone but he looked a little like a pit (he was the right size and colour :rolleyes:). Took a vet two seconds to prove he wasn't what he was accused of being but others have not been so lucky.
  • StigglesStiggles Posts: 9,618
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    BellaRosa wrote: »
    Obviously some people cannot :rolleyes: It's not rocket science to be able to tell!

    Absolute nonsense.
  • flashgordon1952flashgordon1952 Posts: 3,799
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    All dogs should bylaw have IDs and insurance Failure by any owner not too . Will be ainstant fine and made to have the dog have a identity tag.. Refusal the dog is taken away ands they are banned from haveing dogs for 10years.
    Any illegal dog found (banned dogs) to be destroyed the owner has to pay for the destruction of there dog fined £1000 for first offence second instant prison for 6 months and lifetime ban from have dogs and all licenced animals .
    Its a great shame we cannot have the owner "put down" but he has human rights,shame the dog s dont
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    All dogs should bylaw have IDs and insurance Failure by any owner not too . Will be ainstant fine and made to have the dog have a identity tag.. Refusal the dog is taken away ands they are banned from haveing dogs for 10years.
    Any illegal dog found (banned dogs) to be destroyed the owner has to pay for the destruction of there dog fined £1000 for first offence second instant prison for 6 months and lifetime ban from have dogs and all licenced animals .
    Its a great shame we cannot have the owner "put down" but he has human rights,shame the dog s dont

    The law already legislates that dogs must have id tags and failure to comply IS a criminal offence!

    I may be wrong but I think you can be fined up to £5K for this!
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    All dogs should bylaw have IDs and insurance Failure by any owner not too . Will be ainstant fine and made to have the dog have a identity tag.. Refusal the dog is taken away ands they are banned from haveing dogs for 10years.
    Any illegal dog found (banned dogs) to be destroyed the owner has to pay for the destruction of there dog fined £1000 for first offence second instant prison for 6 months and lifetime ban from have dogs and all licenced animals .
    Its a great shame we cannot have the owner "put down" but he has human rights,shame the dog s dont

    I am all for controlling the dogs I own and hope everyone who owns one thinks the same way but anything that causes a dog to be destroyed unnecessarily is not something I would agree with. Anyone suggesting it obviously has no experience with how wonderful dogs can be in the right families.
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    Pull2Open wrote: »
    The law already legislates that dogs must have id tags and failure to comply IS a criminal offence!

    I may be wrong but I think you can be fined up to £5K for this!

    Yes it's a criminal offence we have a very soft throated girl who cannot wear a collar so her tag is on her harness. Haven't been stopped at any point for doing that but would rather be fined than cause her any pain.
  • Pull2OpenPull2Open Posts: 15,138
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    molliepops wrote: »
    Yes it's a criminal offence we have a very soft throated girl who cannot wear a collar so her tag is on her harness. Haven't been stopped at any point for doing that but would rather be fined than cause her any pain.

    As long as your dog has an identifying tag, somewhere visible then you have adhered to the terms of the legislation. Although, many do think that as they have their dogs chipped then they don't need a tag which is incorrect! Chips, as far as I am aware, aren't as yet, recognised in legislation!
  • LakieLadyLakieLady Posts: 19,713
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    shudder wrote: »
    Sounds like scaremongering to me - kennels are also used when people go on holiday no? So not the borstals you describe

    Also, why have a dog that looks like a pit bull? Staffies etc are the ugliest things I have ever seen and look more like a skinned thing from a horror movie than a pet

    Evidence of neglect while in the "care" of the police (from DDA Watch website):

    "A post-mortem revealed that Otis had suffered:

    All nails on four feet extremely worn


    The signs of old lying sores on both hocks.


    Weight gain 34kg dead weight.


    Two upper incisors broken.


    All front teeth worn so that the pulp was exposed.


    Severe wearing of the lingual aspect particularly of the upper right canine.


    A one third deposit of calculus on most of the teeth (more than one would expect for a 6 year old dog).


    Enlarged umbilical hernia."

    Otis was later found to share more characteristics with a Great Dane than any other breed.

    And this:

    "Tyler had sustained several injuries whilst in police care.

    •untreated lacerations from the catchpole used to remove him from his family home
    •two holes inside his mouth
    •a deep puncture wound to his shoulder
    •flesh missing from a hind leg with other small flesh wounds
    •pressure sores
    •Tyler was described as visibly malnourished and bloated, tender around his abdomen. "

    And this, about a dog which was eventually found to be exempt and returned home:

    "As soon as the family were reunited it became apparent that Missey was suffering deep trauma and psychological damage from her time in police care. She had developed extreme anxieties which worsened despite intervention from veterinary and behavioural experts. Her anxiety “ruled her life”, according to the Tipples, and worsened until they felt compelled to end her suffering. Missey was euthanized on Sunday 17th February 2008."


    The site also lists a dog called Oscar, who was not treated for a bone deformity while confiscated, some staffie pups who contracted parvo virus while in the care of Merseyside police and died, and 60 confiscated dogs that died while in the care of Met police in a 13 month period in 07/08, from"unexplained causes".

    Whether or not a dog is ugly is a question of taste. A lot of people hate wire-haired terrier breeds because of their beards and eyebrows, but I love them. Otoh, spitz-type dogs do nothing for me at all and I dislike the pale eyes on huskies and Weimaraners. Each to their own.

    And when picking a puppy, unless it is pure-bred from a reputable breeder, it is often impossible to tell what it's going to look like as an adult dog.
  • LakieLadyLakieLady Posts: 19,713
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    BellaRosa wrote: »
    You can tell when a dog is about to attack and just wondered why she didn't get rid of the pie?

    You might be able to tell, and I quite possibly would, but I've been around dogs and pretty much obsessed with them all my life. However, I wouldn't expect a teenage girl, possibly with no experience of dogs, to be alert to the warning signs.

    However, if any dog came after me and I had a pie in my hand I would definitely lob the pie and leg it while the dogs were distracted.
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    LakieLady wrote: »
    BellaRosa wrote: »
    You can tell when a dog is about to attack and just wondered why she didn't get rid of the pie?

    You might be able to tell, and I quite possibly would, but I've been around dogs and pretty much obsessed with them all my life. However, I wouldn't expect a teenage girl, possibly with no experience of dogs, to be alert to the warning signs.

    However, if any dog came after me and I had a pie in my hand I would definitely lob the pie and leg it while the dogs were distracted.

    We had a corgi cross who would wag her tail happily as she tried to take a bite out of a person, not all dogs do the same IME. And as you say not everyone will spot the signs anyway.
  • theidtheid Posts: 6,045
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    "This was a tragic case. However, there are already quite severe sanctions in place for those dogs that bite, or even threaten to bite a member of the public. "



    Sadly the police and the CPS are reluctant to bring prosecutions as they regard it as time-consuming and expensive in times of austerity. They hope that people who have been bitten by dogs will bring private prosecutions, but this is not an option for many people. A friend of mine who required reconstructive surgery to his arm after a dog he had previously reported to the police when it had bitten his own dog bit him while he was trying to protect his dog from being bitten a second time. He was told that because both dogs were off the lead there was no case to answer!
    A private prosecution brought after another similar incident resulted in the offending dog's owner being fined, having to pay all costs, and being ordered to muzzle her dog in public. Now that the "no win no fee" system has been
    tampered with I guess there will be even less people who are willing to take out private prosecutions. It's a mess!
  • Si_CreweSi_Crewe Posts: 40,202
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    Why does the whole "tagging" thing always seem to come up in these threads?

    I mean, if we were discussing the cost of caring for stray dogs then, sure. Advocating compulsory tagging seems like a good idea but I'm not really sure how it relates to the subject of dogs biting.

    Seems like a case of just wanting to inflict hassle on dog owners to me.
  • impartialobservimpartialobserv Posts: 1,324
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    Si_Crewe wrote: »

    Seems like a case of just wanting to inflict hassle on dog owners to me.

    Unfortunately a lot of dog owners do behave in an extremely irresponsible manner and deserve a degree of "hassle". I am no expert in this field, but I do believe that the current legislation requires reform. The law just doesn't appear to have the 'teeth', as it were, to deal with many of the problems associated with dog ownership.

    I was at the local park with my children yesterday and saw two separate dogs fouling on the grass, whilst their owners casually continued on their way. I saw a large, uncontrollable dog running about chasing squirrels, completely deaf to the commands of its owner to come back. I also saw a dog jumping up at a smallish child and scaring it. Presumably all of these dogs "meant well," but the fact remains that they were behaving in a way which is unacceptable in a public place, especially one popular with small children.
    Perhaps designated areas for dogs to exercise off the lead may be one solution.

    In the case of vicious dogs and deadly attacks, a situation where irresponsible owners can complete evade any sort of prosecution is completely unacceptable to me.
  • molliepopsmolliepops Posts: 26,821
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    Yes but to stop them doing that it seems unfair to make the rest of us who are responsible owners jump through hoops to keep being responsible owners. Also it's only us responsible owners who jump through the hoops the irresponsible ones will carry on as they always have done IMO
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