universal jobmatch

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 799
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i been doing some reading up on this and people say you should not tick the box that lets your advisor see what you been upto.


Signing up to Universal Jobmatch is mandatory

On 1 March 2013 PCS, the trade union of Jobcentre staff, released a statement saying that the website will become mandatory on Monday 4 March 2013. From Monday you may be forced to sign up to the Universal Jobmatch and threatened with sanctions if you refuse to do so. When this happens, it is important that you protect your rights and privacy when creating an account.
Do not give access to your account!

Even if you sign up to the website, you do not have to let Jobcentre or DWP monitor your activity on it. PCS' statement makes this clear:

If, and when, a claimant signs up to UJ, they will be encouraged to give DWP access to their account. However, it is absolutely clear from a legal perspective that the claimant does not have to tick the box to give DWP access to their account, and can provide alternative proof of UJ sign up and use, e.g. screenprints

Your advisor will most likely pressurize you to give them access to your account. It is important that you do not do that. Giving them access will make it much easier for them to find a reason to sanction you in the future. Avoid this as much as possible! Read and follow the advice below.
Do not authorise DWP to view your account on the website

Signing up to the website is a two step process. First your create a Government Gateway ID, then you create an account on Universal Jobmatch using that ID. In the second step, you have to fill in a form on the website. It is important that you do not tick a checkbox labelled I authorise DWP to view my accounts, including job search activity, feedback and notes. You do not have to do that - click on the question mark next to it to confirm that it is not required.



so whats everyones views on this.
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Comments

  • jenziejenzie Posts: 20,821
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    never seen a point in there BEING a checkbox for this, as JCP staff have to see what you are doing on it!

    even though you aren't NOT legally required to do so as yet, but it's really a non argument
  • Steve_WhelanSteve_Whelan Posts: 1,986
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    I can't think of a valid reason not to let DWP monitor your job search activity it is called Job Seekers allowance you must be seeking work to receive it. If you have an objection you must not be seeking work as to the conditions of your agreement. If you keep everything up to date and record all activity it keeps the Job Centre staff off your back.
  • NoseyLouieNoseyLouie Posts: 5,651
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    I prefer them to have access as I prefer not to have to make additional notes to fill in, although I will need to print off evidence of job apps this week as I never clicked the I have applied button on uj..meh.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 799
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    it makes it easy for them to sanction you.

    they have to get the numbers down. people of bennefits,

    so next time you see the figurers are down. remember they are lying to you.
    they just put people on pointless work placements and courses.
  • swaydogswaydog Posts: 5,653
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    kcspurs wrote: »
    it makes it easy for them to sanction you.

    they have to get the numbers down. people of bennefits,

    so next time you see the figurers are down. remember they are lying to you.
    they just put people on pointless work placements and courses.

    How does it make it easy to sanction you.
    You have to prove your job search activities one way or another.
    If you don't give them access then you will still have to tell them about everything that you've done or have it written down.
  • glaschelleglaschelle Posts: 536
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    I can't comment on Universal Jobmatch from a Job Seeker's point of view. I can, however, give my experience of trying to advertise a vacancy.

    Before this universal malarkey, I used to fax any vacancy information to my local job centre and within a couple of hours, the vacancy was advertised. Now!!! Emails flying back and forth. Forms which can't be filed in. Numerous telephone calls to a call centre miles away who aren't the least bit interested and just read from a script!!! :mad:

    It took me three days to advertise a job recently. Surely in these days of high unemployment, the government should be making it easier, not harder, to advertise a job.

    PS - don't do anything which makes it easier for the gits to stop your benefits!!!
  • Jennifer JayneJennifer Jayne Posts: 9,022
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    I don't see the problem with it, if you are doing as your agreement states then you have nothing to worry about, or are the people who say do not tick it not doing the job searches and making it up on the day 10 minutes before they leave to sign on.

    And yes I claim JSA and i ticked the box to let them see it and have not had any problems.
  • Jennifer JayneJennifer Jayne Posts: 9,022
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    kcspurs wrote: »
    it makes it easy for them to sanction you.

    they have to get the numbers down. people of bennefits,

    so next time you see the figurers are down. remember they are lying to you.
    they just put people on pointless work placements and courses.

    The only way it can make it easier for them to sanction you is if you don't actually look for work as you agreed, and if you don't then you don't deserve to be claiming JSA anyway.
  • Steve_WhelanSteve_Whelan Posts: 1,986
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    kcspurs wrote: »
    it makes it easy for them to sanction you.

    they have to get the numbers down. people of bennefits,

    so next time you see the figurers are down. remember they are lying to you.
    they just put people on pointless work placements and courses.

    That total bull, you can only be sanctioned for not meeting the conditions of your agreement, using universal job match makes it easier for you to keep all your search activity in one place and easier to verify and as a result makes you less likely to get sanctioned.
  • Roland MouseRoland Mouse Posts: 9,531
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    I use other places and thing than UJM to find jobs mostly as UJM is filled up with self-employed jobs of stuffing catalogues through peoples doors and other agency jobs that just do not exist.

    I take in printed out evidence of what I have done to find work and do not allow them access to my UJM account. (little point as even when I find a job on there, you don't have to be signed in to apply for it so there is next to nothing in my account to say that I have done anything)

    That is fine for 99.9% of the Jobcentre staff except for one file woman. She grills everyone EVERY TIME. Fully DOB - Address - Phone number - "you have signed up for UJM have you?" (You can't sign on without doing so now so that is a silly question to start with) - "And you haven't allowed us access to your account. Is that correct?" (If you mumble yeah she repeats it in a louder voice) "IS THAT CORRECT?!"

    She just tries to bully and intimidate and she knows that she has no right to do so.
  • Roland MouseRoland Mouse Posts: 9,531
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    That total bull, you can only be sanctioned for not meeting the conditions of your agreement, using universal job match makes it easier for you to keep all your search activity in one place and easier to verify and as a result makes you less likely to get sanctioned.

    How does it make it easier if I see a job locally advertised or even on say the Boots website I would then have to go to the UJM website, find my log in details, log in, click to the right place to make notes and then enter the details.

    That versus my own records held locally on my PC in a word document that I simply have to fire up and cut and paste the details directly from the Boots website or the details of the local job.
  • Steve_WhelanSteve_Whelan Posts: 1,986
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    I use other places and thing than UJM to find jobs mostly as UJM is filled up with self-employed jobs of stuffing catalogues through peoples doors and other agency jobs that just do not exist.

    I take in printed out evidence of what I have done to find work and do not allow them access to my UJM account. (little point as even when I find a job on there, you don't have to be signed in to apply for it so there is next to nothing in my account to say that I have done anything)

    That is fine for 99.9% of the Jobcentre staff except for one file woman. She grills everyone EVERY TIME. Fully DOB - Address - Phone number - "you have signed up for UJM have you?" (You can't sign on without doing so now so that is a silly question to start with) - "And you haven't allowed us access to your account. Is that correct?" (If you mumble yeah she repeats it in a louder voice) "IS THAT CORRECT?!"

    She just tries to bully and intimidate and she knows that she has no right to do so.
    I very rarely use UJM for finding jobs as there are very rarely any jobs advertised there. But UJM has a useful diary log feature for logging all your activity keep that up to date and make copies of all your applications and you have very little to worry about.
  • Roland MouseRoland Mouse Posts: 9,531
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    The main problem is that UJM is a complete load of shite when it comes to looking for a job!
    It's filled with page after page of agencies offering vague job descriptions just to get you CV uploaded to them so that they can say they have more people on their books and so charge employers more money. That and self employed jobs that say that you can make a living wage on stuffing catalogues through people's doors. (Such a wonderful job that they have 10 of them on every page every day of the week.)
  • Steve_WhelanSteve_Whelan Posts: 1,986
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    How does it make it easier if I see a job locally advertised or even on say the Boots website I would then have to go to the UJM website, find my log in details, log in, click to the right place to make notes and then enter the details.

    That versus my own records held locally on my PC in a word document that I simply have to fire up and cut and paste the details directly from the Boots website or the details of the local job.

    Because with a word document there is no way for the job centre to determine whether you have been looking for work, for all they know you could have typed up a job log half an hour before signing on. When you use the search activity log on UJM all dates and times are recorded, that along with copies of application forms and emails makes it very difficult to sanction you.
  • dgi_mdgi_m Posts: 318
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    the website functions no differently from a sheet of paper.

    everything you do outwith applying for the jobs where you can send your CV through the site has to be manually entered.

    allowing them access is just giving them sanction ammunition.
  • Steve_WhelanSteve_Whelan Posts: 1,986
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    dgi_m wrote: »
    the website functions no differently from a sheet of paper.

    everything you do outwith applying for the jobs where you can send your CV through the site has to be manually entered.

    allowing them access is just giving them sanction ammunition.

    A sheet of paper does not log dates and times, UJM does. They only have ammunition to sanction you if you are not fulfilling the terms of your agreement.
  • dgi_mdgi_m Posts: 318
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    glaschelle wrote: »
    I can, however, give my experience of trying to advertise a vacancy.
    Are you able to search through the local CVs which have been made public to look for suitable people - either searching by keyword, or looking through them all individually - or is that just a Job Centre thing?

    Also, when you receive a CV for a job, do you receive it in the form it is sent - all neatly arranged as a word doc or pdf, or does it do that thing where it gives you all the text without any formatting applied?
  • Roland MouseRoland Mouse Posts: 9,531
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    Because with a word document there is no way for the job centre to determine whether you have been looking for work, for all they know you could have typed up a job log half an hour before signing on. When you use the search activity log on UJM all dates and times are recorded, that along with copies of application forms and emails makes it very difficult to sanction you.

    But they have no right to see it. So that ends it all!

    To sanction someone they will have to prove that you are not applying for the jobs you say you are and as they are also not allowed to contact employers about you, that scuppers that avenue as well.
  • Roland MouseRoland Mouse Posts: 9,531
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    A sheet of paper does not log dates and times, UJM does. They only have ammunition to sanction you if you are not fulfilling the terms of your agreement.

    :confused: But my word document does contain dates and full details of the job and what I did to try and get it.

    If I see a job locally, there is no difference if I put the details of what I did to get the job on a piece of paper or type it into UJM.

    Not every job is on UJM. In fact, UJM is bloody dreadful for looking for a job!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 799
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    they expect you to look every day. they also trying to get people to look 30 hours a week.

    you can only look so many times.

    they just want to sanction people to get the numbers down
  • Roland MouseRoland Mouse Posts: 9,531
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    kcspurs wrote: »
    they expect you to look every day. they also trying to get people to look 30 hours a week.

    you can only look so many times.

    they just want to sanction people to get the numbers down

    You could look every day, but the jobs don't come in there 1000s every hour so it would be impossible to spend 30 hours on UJM.

    Well, you could sit there for hours refreshing the page and saying "Nope! Nothing new yet". "Ooo wait a job has appeared - Self employed delivering catalogues to people's houses! Great! just like the other 18 of the same today!"
  • DJGMDJGM Posts: 3,934
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    Ok ... what about this scenario . . .

    Your JCP advisor says, you must sign up to the Universal Jobmatch service in order to record all your jobsearch,
    which you (perhaps reluctantly) agree to. You sign up, and start using the site as the your advisor requested.

    Then you spot the tick box says you can grant your advisor access to your UJM activities, and decide to leave
    it unticked and carry on using the site for jobsearching and adding notes of what you've done to look for work.

    On your next appointment, your advisor asks why you haven't allowed him/her access to your UJM activities,
    and you explain why ... data protection ... invasion of privacy ... whatever ... etc. Your advisor politely warns
    you that your Jobseekers Allowance claim could be passed on to a "decision maker" who would decide
    whether or not you should have your JSA sanctioned if you do not allow access to your UJM.

    Your advisor then gives you a "Jobseeker Direction" letter which says you must allow your advisor to access
    your UJM. Ultimately, you still refuse to tick the box, and at your next appointment after this, your claim is
    referred to the "decision maker", who decides you should receive a JSA sanction for a number of weeks.

    With that in mind, would you continue to stubbornly not allow your advisor to see your UJM activities?


    I would have thought that allowing your JCP advisor to see your UJM activities on his/her computer at each
    appointment would be somewhat easier and quicker that typing it all out with MS Word and printing it off.
    While all the information you might put on this printed document is not faked, the JCP advisor could still
    accuse you of presenting a fake jobsearch record, and use that as an excuse to sanction you.

    If that were to happen, how would you prove that it's a genuine record of your recent jobsearch activity?

    I am aware that UJM has had it's fair share of problems with fraudulent scammers illegally posting fake job
    listings since it was launched, plus some security problems, It's a government IT thing ... they very rarely
    work out the way they should ... but it's been a year since UJM went live, surely it can't still be that bad!
  • Roland MouseRoland Mouse Posts: 9,531
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    Well all of that just wouldn't happen currently.

    "Your JCP advisor says, you must sign up to the Universal Jobmatch service in order to record all your jobsearch,
    which you (perhaps reluctantly) agree to."

    You HAVE TO sign up to it - That is a mandatory requirement.

    "On your next appointment, your advisor asks why you haven't allowed him/her access to your UJM activities,
    and you explain why"

    You can if you wish give an excuse or none as it is not currently a requirement that you give them access.

    So you next bit would not take place as they can't currently force you to give them access. Therefore they would not and could not send it to a decision maker.

    So currently:
    You HAVE TO sign up to UJM
    You DO NOT have to allow them access to your account.

    Anything else is irrelevant.
  • Owen_KentOwen_Kent Posts: 270
    Forum Member
    DJGM wrote: »
    Ok ... what about this scenario . . .

    Your JCP advisor says, you must sign up to the Universal Jobmatch service in order to record all your jobsearch,
    which you (perhaps reluctantly) agree to. You sign up, and start using the site as the your advisor requested.

    Then you spot the tick box says you can grant your advisor access to your UJM activities, and decide to leave
    it unticked and carry on using the site for jobsearching and adding notes of what you've done to look for work.

    On your next appointment, your advisor asks why you haven't allowed him/her access to your UJM activities,
    and you explain why ... data protection ... invasion of privacy ... whatever ... etc. Your advisor politely warns
    you that your Jobseekers Allowance claim could be passed on to a "decision maker" who would decide
    whether or not you should have your JSA sanctioned if you do not allow access to your UJM.

    Your advisor then gives you a "Jobseeker Direction" letter which says you must allow your advisor to access
    your UJM. Ultimately, you still refuse to tick the box, and at your next appointment after this, your claim is
    referred to the "decision maker", who decides you should receive a JSA sanction for a number of weeks.

    With that in mind, would you continue to stubbornly not allow your advisor to see your UJM activities?


    I would have thought that allowing your JCP advisor to see your UJM activities on his/her computer at each
    appointment would be somewhat easier and quicker that typing it all out with MS Word and printing it off.
    While all the information you might put on this printed document is not faked, the JCP advisor could still
    accuse you of presenting a fake jobsearch record, and use that as an excuse to sanction you.

    If that were to happen, how would you prove that it's a genuine record of your recent jobsearch activity?

    I am aware that UJM has had it's fair share of problems with fraudulent scammers illegally posting fake job
    listings since it was launched, plus some security problems, It's a government IT thing ... they very rarely
    work out the way they should ... but it's been a year since UJM went live, surely it can't still be that bad!

    That's bull, sorry but if advisor asked me why I haven't gived them permission to access my account I will ask for proof that if its mandatory and I will also ask to see the manager.

    At the moment I haven't gived DWP access to my account and I am not going to do unless it becomes mandatory (which I doubt it will unless their change date protection act which I doubt it will happen :rolleyes:)

    Also if anyone give DWP access to their account then its easy sanction am affraid, well there is 1 trap on Universal Jobmatch that will trigger a quick sanction.

    What if someone lookes at a Job advert on the Jobmatch account and it states the following: or,tell us why you don't wish to apply for the job? what if someone clicks on to far from home, or Job doesn't match my skills or not intrested in this Job at the moment.

    What if people not aware of this and their click them example answers, then the poor people will get a sanction on the claim, this is a easy trap and I always click the back button if I am not sure if I should apply for the job (even though I haven't gived them access)

    Don't give DWP a reason to stop your benefits, if you want your JSA stopped then go ahead and give them access but its your call and you will have to face the consequences if that happens :)
  • dgi_mdgi_m Posts: 318
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    While I can understand that being unemployed is not a time for morals and standards, and should mean that you should take any job that's going, it shouldn't mean that you should be exploited. Just because there are commission based catalogue jobs listed, doesn't mean you should be forced to apply for them.

    I spent a year helping disabled/vulnerable/people who had never used a computer before to go through this process of using UJM. If it wasn't for our group, our members would have been sanctioned through no fault of their own and with no help from the job centre. If I went back to that position I would implore everyone to restrict access to their accounts just to give them a bit of control and power.

    Is it fair to sanction people who have no idea how to use a computer when you provide them with no help?
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