Crazybutterfly, Im sorry you ever had to deal with anything like that, my mam and her brothers had to deal with something similar (one of her brothers more than her or her other brother), so I know its not an easy thing to deal with.
Thank you, that's really lovely of you I hope your family got through it too
This was my reaction, a complete WTF moment, and a ridiculous one at that. What annoyed me even more was the reactions from Sam, Artie and Will's reaction to them. Sam and Artie were a-holes, pure and simple, and Will barely even said anything to them about it.
Im not somebody who normally gets really annoyed at this programme but this really got to me this week and I found the rest of it ok, except for this. Its something that affects too many people and too many families and it was just kind of dismissed after Ryder and Kitty told their stories and tbh I think it was kind of disrespectful to anyone who has ever dealt with that for it to be treated the way it was.
Crazybutterfly, Im sorry you ever had to deal with anything like that, my mam and her brothers had to deal with something similar (one of her brothers more than her or her other brother), so I know its not an easy thing to deal with.
I was really offended by it too. As a victim of rape I found the way in which they dealt with it was cold and callous. Esp the way in which Archie and Co were ********s about it. What is bad about this is that this issue will be forgotten about just like the bulima and shooting. I am sick of this show now, they cannot deal with serious issues in a credible way
Could someone explain in more detail what exactly was wrong with the Ryder / Kitty confession scenes from the last episode? Glee has always handled 'serious issues' very well and executed them in a realistic way - I see no difference here.
No one seems to agree with me that people are 'TRYING to find things to complain about' but every episode without fail there are sweeping criticisms which are, as far as I can see, completely unjustified.
Could someone explain in more detail what exactly was wrong with the Ryder / Kitty confession scenes from the last episode? Glee has always handled 'serious issues' very well and executed them in a realistic way - I see no difference here.
No one seems to agree with me that people are 'TRYING to find things to complain about' but every episode without fail there are sweeping criticisms which are, as far as I can see, completely unjustified.
Maybe you should read the posts of those who have been victims of such abuse more carefully then, because from what I've read there are plenty of justified criticisms that the show has not handled this storyline with any kind of care, attention or respect. Particularly as it just seemed to be forgotten about in the last 5 minutes of the episode, as is so often the case with 'serious' storylines on Glee (the inverted commas are there because I don't believe Glee often does serious well).
Personally, as someone who has thankfully never experienced anything like that, I found Kitty's revelation to be well-handled, partly because I think Becca Tobin acted it well, and the simple gesture of Ryder taking her hand worked.
Ryder's confession, on the other hand, had me going 'what the hell?!' in astonishment that the hideous reaction to it from Sam and Artie was left pretty much completely unchecked. As a teacher Will could and should have roundly told them off for having such a disgusting attitude, but he didn't, and that coupled with the fact that he has yelled at them for so much less seemed to me to make a mockery of the storyline and of what happened to Ryder.
And all of that is completely besides the fact that Blake Jenner can't act so there was no real emotion in that reveal whatsoever.
Ryder's confession, on the other hand, had me going 'what the hell?!' in astonishment that the hideous reaction to it from Sam and Artie was left pretty much completely unchecked. As a teacher Will could and should have roundly told them off for having such a disgusting attitude, but he didn't, and that coupled with the fact that he has yelled at them for so much less seemed to me to make a mockery of the storyline and of what happened to Ryder.
.
I thought it did well to highlight the hypocrisy of abuse, when most people do see female abuse of children as less damaging than male abuse of children.
Also it comes across as more sinister to have someone sneak into your sleeping bag, than into your shower.
It did feel too much like Ryder said his bit too 'matter of factually' but I put that down to his poor acting.
Maybe you should read the posts of those who have been victims of such abuse more carefully then, because from what I've read there are plenty of justified criticisms that the show has not handled this storyline with any kind of care, attention or respect. Particularly as it just seemed to be forgotten about in the last 5 minutes of the episode, as is so often the case with 'serious' storylines on Glee (the inverted commas are there because I don't believe Glee often does serious well).
Personally, as someone who has thankfully never experienced anything like that, I found Kitty's revelation to be well-handled, partly because I think Becca Tobin acted it well, and the simple gesture of Ryder taking her hand worked.
Ryder's confession, on the other hand, had me going 'what the hell?!' in astonishment that the hideous reaction to it from Sam and Artie was left pretty much completely unchecked. As a teacher Will could and should have roundly told them off for having such a disgusting attitude, but he didn't, and that coupled with the fact that he has yelled at them for so much less seemed to me to make a mockery of the storyline and of what happened to Ryder.
And all of that is completely besides the fact that Blake Jenner can't act so there was no real emotion in that reveal whatsoever.
Agreed. Glee has proven that it is very good at talking about issues which nobody else talks about (which in itself is still a great thing) but after it's yelled "school shooting!" or "transgender MVP singer!" or "domestic violence!", it is very rare that it actually has something to say beyond that.
My main problem with Ryder's confession is that "Everybody Hurts" (much like practically all the music in Season 4) has very little to do with what he is saying in any deep sense. If the ND had been singing it to Ryder then I'd buy it as emotional but to me it isn't a very "confession-y" song in the way Ryder was using it. It's more of a "support" song in the way that the ND sang "Keep Holding On" to Quinn and so it set a weird tone to the scene.
This is only compounded by the fact that I don't care about Ryder as a character and I don't buy the new ND as a group which would share that kind of news with each other in the same way that I found it ridiculous that Marley and Jake were excited and hugged Mr. Schue when he came back from Washington. They haven't been shown to have the bond.
I'm really saddened to hear the stories which some of you have posted on here about incidents in your past and think it remarkably kind and brave of you to share that with us.
Could someone explain in more detail what exactly was wrong with the Ryder / Kitty confession scenes from the last episode? Glee has always handled 'serious issues' very well and executed them in a realistic way - I see no difference here.
No one seems to agree with me that people are 'TRYING to find things to complain about' but every episode without fail there are sweeping criticisms which are, as far as I can see, completely unjustified.
Im not trying to find anything to complain about but Im not going to ignore the fact that this was, imo, handled terribly. Apart from Ryder's confession and his and Kitty's conversation about it after that its not brought up anywhere else in the episode. Ryder isnt brought into Mr Schues office to talk, Sam and Artie arent spoken to about their insensitvity in the choir room and nobody came up to Ryder to see how he was afterwards (Im only talking about Ryder here because he told everyone). To me it felt like it was only used as a reason for Ryder to able to trick his friends so he could find out who was catfishing him and they really could have used anything else for that. Glee has never been great at continuing on serious stories past the episode they happen in but this was never even continued on after 5 minutes.
Im not trying to find anything to complain about but Im not going to ignore the fact that this was, imo, handled terribly. Apart from Ryder's confession and his and Kitty's conversation about it after that its not brought up anywhere else in the episode. Ryder isnt brought into Mr Schues office to talk, Sam and Artie arent spoken to about their insensitvity in the choir room and nobody came up to Ryder to see how he was afterwards (Im only talking about Ryder here because he told everyone). To me it felt like it was only used as a reason for Ryder to able to trick his friends so he could find out who was catfishing him and they really could have used anything else for that. Glee has never been great at continuing on serious stories past the episode they happen in but this was never even continued on after 5 minutes.
Okay, I understand now. I don't think its fair to simply say that the issue was 'dropped' at the end of the episode, especially considering we haven't even gone a single episode past it to say for sure that it has been 'dropped'. I agree that these issues in bold should have been addressed but again I see it differently..
1) Mr Schue's intervening 'line' with Ryder's sarcastic tone was enough to satisfy 'backlash' for me regarding Sam and Artie, though I appreciate that for some this wasn't enough.
2) Kitty did approach Ryder. They may not have had a whole big gesture in song tackling that exact problem, but the show made the effort to show that although Artie and Sam didn't understand it (incredibly realistic, something which should be appreciated in itself), somebody did and Ryder was clearly helped by Kitty having approached him.
I know for a FACT that this story 'piece' was inspiring to some victims of abuse, which is probably why the criticisms of this storyline, and the episode as a whole, bothered me especially when they weren't explained at all. Those opinions are not just bland to read but contribute nothing to a discussion and forgive me for thinking bad of those posters who, week in week out, slam the show without any real reason.
Its something that affects too many people and too many families and it was just kind of dismissed after Ryder and Kitty told their stories and tbh I think it was kind of disrespectful to anyone who has ever dealt with that for it to be treated the way it was.
I assume you're totally unaware then that Ryan Murphy was raped by an older teenager when he was (from memory) about 11 or 12. I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what families go through and I don't believe it was treated with any kind of disrespect.
I was really offended by it too. As a victim of rape I found the way in which they dealt with it was cold and callous. Esp the way in which Archie and Co were ********s about it. What is bad about this is that this issue will be forgotten about just like the bulima and shooting. I am sick of this show now, they cannot deal with serious issues in a credible way
And, speaking as another victim of rape, I disagree completely. I thought the reaction of both Mr Shue and the female members of the Glee Club showed quite clearly how out of line they felt Artie and Sam's reactions were.
They also went further with Kitty's explanation and approach to Ryder to demonstrate that she understood completely what he was talking about and what he'd gone through and the show itself made it fairly clear that Ryder's confession had been done not only because he wanted it out in the open but because he thought he could draw Katie out into a public reaction when he told the Glee Club.
I also find it interesting that you think the shooting has been "forgotten about" considering they addressed the issue in not only the following episode but in Light's Out as well. The bulimia story has also been referenced to throughout the rest of S4 as well, including Kitty's confession during Shooting Star.
I thought it did well to highlight the hypocrisy of abuse, when most people do see female abuse of children as less damaging than male abuse of children.
Totally agree with you, it was a fairly atypical reaction from two teenage boys who didn't understand the implications of what Ryder was saying. The abuse of teenage boys by older women is very often treated as a bit of a laugh or a joke in comparison to that of women and male abuse and rape is still very much a hidden issue.
Also, as someone mentioned it earlier, I feel I should reply (as someone who also has been a victim of rape) to say that I wasn't in the least bit offended by Glee choosing to deal with a topic which is very clearly at the heart of Ryan Murphy's childhood. After the show aired, there was also (if I understand correctly from US friends) a public service announcement giving details of organisations to help victims of both male and female abuse.
There's also the issue of the show having a disjointed feel because of Cory Monteith's trip into rehab. He had already shot two scenes for this episode which had to be cut, for all we know, one of those could have been him taking Sam and Artie to task over their reaction to Ryder's confession or it could have been him speaking to Ryder as the show has given an indication that Finn feels like an older mentor to him. As it happened, there was no time to reshoot anything and so the pace of the episode as a whole felt "off" and out of synch, especially the cuts to New York.
On a very different note, if anyone would like to hear Amber Riley school the hell out of the current ND on how to sing a song then please click the link for this weeks best song...
On a very different note, if anyone would like to hear Amber Riley school the hell out of the current ND on how to sing a song then please click the link for this weeks best song...
And that is why the original cast are and always will be Glee for me
I never knew that about Ryan Murphy and as sorry as I am for him or anyone else that has gone through a situation like this it doesn't change my opinion of what happened in the episode.
If it hasn't offended people than that's fair enough and if it has helped people that's fantastic but it has upset/ annoyed some people, including me. That's really all I have to say about it now because I feel it's something that can go round in circles.
On a very different note, if anyone would like to hear Amber Riley school the hell out of the current ND on how to sing a song then please click the link for this weeks best song...
He was first a dick to Tina when she admitted she put on her stammer and then to Britney when he called her stupid.
While I am certainly not standing up for him, his reaction when Tina admitted she pretended to have a stammer to get closer to him, I thought, was pretty justified. She lied about having a disability, which was probably pretty insulting...
I'm not an Artie fan
He was first a dick to Tina when she admitted she put on her stammer and then to Britney when he called her stupid.
I'm not an Artie fan but that was justified, she faked a disability to isolate everyone around her and to get closer to him which was out of order. And to be fair he had just found out Britney had been cheating on him for months but no one seems to think that counts...
Ryder will finally find out who Katie is. Marley will find out the identity of Katie first. Marley will admit to glee club that she is Katie, but she is actually covering up for the real Katie.
On a very different note, if anyone would like to hear Amber Riley school the hell out of the current ND on how to sing a song then please click the link for this weeks best song...
It's a great cover but
I think Becca Tobin does just as good a job on hers and I don't like Chris Colfer's version of his cover at all, he sounds totally disinterested.
I think Becca Tobin does just as good a job on hers and I don't like Chris Colfer's version of his cover at all, he sounds totally disinterested.
I agree with that, Kitty has really been wasted this season! She's definitely my new favourite. And that's my problem with Chris, quite a lot of the time he either sounds or actually looks disinterested in what he's doing. Like his version of Bring Him Home, he looked bored and completely unemotional.
Like his version of Bring Him Home, he looked bored and completely unemotional.
Ahh I can't agree with Bring Him Home, he got the pathos of that song just perfect for me, it's a song about a man praying to God to allow a young man to live, he's willing to give up his own life for him and it's sung as a plea.
Lea Michele's version was simply too much belt, she sang it like she was doing a concert in Madison Square Garden and too many arm wavy gestures for me.
Or, as I said at the time Diva aired:
Kurt's performance by a significant margin. Rachel nailed the song vocally but her performance, for me, had absolutely nothing of the song itself to it. This is Valjean pleading to his God to take his life instead of Marius' so that the younger man can come home to his adopted daughter Cosette and give them a future so she doesn't have to suffer the same fate as her mother did. Valjean knows he's clawed himself a second chance of life but he also knows it's a tenuous hold and he's willing to give it all up so that Marius will be safe. The song is so emotionally powerful not just a vocal powerhouse performance and that's why, for me, Kurt got it right and Rachel just "sang" it.
Ahh I can't agree with Bring Him Home, he got the pathos of that song just perfect for me, it's a song about a man praying to God to allow a young man to live, he's willing to give up his own life for him and it's sung as a plea.
Lea Michele's version was simply too much belt, she sang it like she was doing a concert in Madison Square Garden and too many arm wavy gestures for me.
I know the song well (im a big les mis fan), but I think part of my problem might be that it's my least favourite song in the musical. It's a beautiful song yes, but I always feel it's silly because just moments before he's worried about Marius taking Cosette away from him, and then next second he's all "he's like the song I could have known" etc and I'm like first of all mate, you hated him a second ago, and you've never even met him! Sorry this is totally unrelated, it just ALWAYS really annoys me!
I know the song well (im a big les mis fan), but I think part of my problem might be that it's my least favourite song in the musical. It's a beautiful song yes, but I always feel it's silly because just moments before he's worried about Marius taking Cosette away from him, and then next second he's all "he's like the song I could have known" etc and I'm like first of all mate, you hated him a second ago, and you've never even met him! Sorry this is totally unrelated, it just ALWAYS really annoys me!
I think it's because he sees in that heat of battle just how passionate Marius is, and how much he's willing to fight so he can return to Cosette.
I agree with Cadiva though, Chris got that song completely right, whereas Lea got it wrong on the same scale as Hugh Jackman got it wrong in the film - very wrong, by belting it far too much. It's a prayer first and foremost, and Chris's interpretation captured that.
And that's my problem with Chris, quite a lot of the time he either sounds or actually looks disinterested in what he's doing. Like his version of Bring Him Home, he looked bored and completely unemotional.
I have to say I completely disagree with this - he brings the emotion and acting pretty much every time he sings.
In terms of Bring Him Home, I did love Lea's rendition but Chris's is more appropriate for the song.
Comments
Thank you, that's really lovely of you
I was really offended by it too. As a victim of rape I found the way in which they dealt with it was cold and callous. Esp the way in which Archie and Co were ********s about it. What is bad about this is that this issue will be forgotten about just like the bulima and shooting. I am sick of this show now, they cannot deal with serious issues in a credible way
No one seems to agree with me that people are 'TRYING to find things to complain about' but every episode without fail there are sweeping criticisms which are, as far as I can see, completely unjustified.
Maybe you should read the posts of those who have been victims of such abuse more carefully then, because from what I've read there are plenty of justified criticisms that the show has not handled this storyline with any kind of care, attention or respect. Particularly as it just seemed to be forgotten about in the last 5 minutes of the episode, as is so often the case with 'serious' storylines on Glee (the inverted commas are there because I don't believe Glee often does serious well).
Personally, as someone who has thankfully never experienced anything like that, I found Kitty's revelation to be well-handled, partly because I think Becca Tobin acted it well, and the simple gesture of Ryder taking her hand worked.
Ryder's confession, on the other hand, had me going 'what the hell?!' in astonishment that the hideous reaction to it from Sam and Artie was left pretty much completely unchecked. As a teacher Will could and should have roundly told them off for having such a disgusting attitude, but he didn't, and that coupled with the fact that he has yelled at them for so much less seemed to me to make a mockery of the storyline and of what happened to Ryder.
And all of that is completely besides the fact that Blake Jenner can't act so there was no real emotion in that reveal whatsoever.
I thought it did well to highlight the hypocrisy of abuse, when most people do see female abuse of children as less damaging than male abuse of children.
Also it comes across as more sinister to have someone sneak into your sleeping bag, than into your shower.
It did feel too much like Ryder said his bit too 'matter of factually' but I put that down to his poor acting.
Agreed. Glee has proven that it is very good at talking about issues which nobody else talks about (which in itself is still a great thing) but after it's yelled "school shooting!" or "transgender MVP singer!" or "domestic violence!", it is very rare that it actually has something to say beyond that.
My main problem with Ryder's confession is that "Everybody Hurts" (much like practically all the music in Season 4) has very little to do with what he is saying in any deep sense. If the ND had been singing it to Ryder then I'd buy it as emotional but to me it isn't a very "confession-y" song in the way Ryder was using it. It's more of a "support" song in the way that the ND sang "Keep Holding On" to Quinn and so it set a weird tone to the scene.
This is only compounded by the fact that I don't care about Ryder as a character and I don't buy the new ND as a group which would share that kind of news with each other in the same way that I found it ridiculous that Marley and Jake were excited and hugged Mr. Schue when he came back from Washington. They haven't been shown to have the bond.
I'm really saddened to hear the stories which some of you have posted on here about incidents in your past and think it remarkably kind and brave of you to share that with us.
Im not trying to find anything to complain about but Im not going to ignore the fact that this was, imo, handled terribly. Apart from Ryder's confession and his and Kitty's conversation about it after that its not brought up anywhere else in the episode. Ryder isnt brought into Mr Schues office to talk, Sam and Artie arent spoken to about their insensitvity in the choir room and nobody came up to Ryder to see how he was afterwards (Im only talking about Ryder here because he told everyone). To me it felt like it was only used as a reason for Ryder to able to trick his friends so he could find out who was catfishing him and they really could have used anything else for that. Glee has never been great at continuing on serious stories past the episode they happen in but this was never even continued on after 5 minutes.
Okay, I understand now. I don't think its fair to simply say that the issue was 'dropped' at the end of the episode, especially considering we haven't even gone a single episode past it to say for sure that it has been 'dropped'. I agree that these issues in bold should have been addressed but again I see it differently..
1) Mr Schue's intervening 'line' with Ryder's sarcastic tone was enough to satisfy 'backlash' for me regarding Sam and Artie, though I appreciate that for some this wasn't enough.
2) Kitty did approach Ryder. They may not have had a whole big gesture in song tackling that exact problem, but the show made the effort to show that although Artie and Sam didn't understand it (incredibly realistic, something which should be appreciated in itself), somebody did and Ryder was clearly helped by Kitty having approached him.
I know for a FACT that this story 'piece' was inspiring to some victims of abuse, which is probably why the criticisms of this storyline, and the episode as a whole, bothered me especially when they weren't explained at all. Those opinions are not just bland to read but contribute nothing to a discussion and forgive me for thinking bad of those posters who, week in week out, slam the show without any real reason.
I assume you're totally unaware then that Ryan Murphy was raped by an older teenager when he was (from memory) about 11 or 12. I'm pretty sure he knows exactly what families go through and I don't believe it was treated with any kind of disrespect.
And, speaking as another victim of rape, I disagree completely. I thought the reaction of both Mr Shue and the female members of the Glee Club showed quite clearly how out of line they felt Artie and Sam's reactions were.
They also went further with Kitty's explanation and approach to Ryder to demonstrate that she understood completely what he was talking about and what he'd gone through and the show itself made it fairly clear that Ryder's confession had been done not only because he wanted it out in the open but because he thought he could draw Katie out into a public reaction when he told the Glee Club.
I also find it interesting that you think the shooting has been "forgotten about" considering they addressed the issue in not only the following episode but in Light's Out as well. The bulimia story has also been referenced to throughout the rest of S4 as well, including Kitty's confession during Shooting Star.
Totally agree with you, it was a fairly atypical reaction from two teenage boys who didn't understand the implications of what Ryder was saying. The abuse of teenage boys by older women is very often treated as a bit of a laugh or a joke in comparison to that of women and male abuse and rape is still very much a hidden issue.
Also, as someone mentioned it earlier, I feel I should reply (as someone who also has been a victim of rape) to say that I wasn't in the least bit offended by Glee choosing to deal with a topic which is very clearly at the heart of Ryan Murphy's childhood. After the show aired, there was also (if I understand correctly from US friends) a public service announcement giving details of organisations to help victims of both male and female abuse.
There's also the issue of the show having a disjointed feel because of Cory Monteith's trip into rehab. He had already shot two scenes for this episode which had to be cut, for all we know, one of those could have been him taking Sam and Artie to task over their reaction to Ryder's confession or it could have been him speaking to Ryder as the show has given an indication that Finn feels like an older mentor to him. As it happened, there was no time to reshoot anything and so the pace of the episode as a whole felt "off" and out of synch, especially the cuts to New York.
On a very different note, if anyone would like to hear Amber Riley school the hell out of the current ND on how to sing a song then please click the link for this weeks best song...
And that is why the original cast are and always will be Glee for me
He was first a dick to Tina when she admitted she put on her stammer and then to Britney when he called her stupid.
If it hasn't offended people than that's fair enough and if it has helped people that's fantastic but it has upset/ annoyed some people, including me. That's really all I have to say about it now because I feel it's something that can go round in circles.
Great, Amber's voice is amazing!
While I am certainly not standing up for him, his reaction when Tina admitted she pretended to have a stammer to get closer to him, I thought, was pretty justified. She lied about having a disability, which was probably pretty insulting...
I'm not an Artie fan
I don't dislike Artie, but he definitely seems pretty consistent with making offensive, inappropriate remarks.
I'm not an Artie fan but that was justified, she faked a disability to isolate everyone around her and to get closer to him which was out of order. And to be fair he had just found out Britney had been cheating on him for months but no one seems to think that counts...
Source: http://glee.wikia.com/wiki/All_or_Nothing_(Episode)
Personally I think she'd only cover up for Unique so looks like its very likely it's her
It's a great cover but
All the song spoilers for next week:
You Are the Sunshine of My Life
Signed, Sealed, Delivered I'm Yours
For Once In My Life
Higher Ground
Uptight (Everything's Alright)
I Wish
Ahh I can't agree with Bring Him Home, he got the pathos of that song just perfect for me, it's a song about a man praying to God to allow a young man to live, he's willing to give up his own life for him and it's sung as a plea.
Lea Michele's version was simply too much belt, she sang it like she was doing a concert in Madison Square Garden and too many arm wavy gestures for me.
Or, as I said at the time Diva aired:
This is how it should be done
I know the song well (im a big les mis fan), but I think part of my problem might be that it's my least favourite song in the musical. It's a beautiful song yes, but I always feel it's silly because just moments before he's worried about Marius taking Cosette away from him, and then next second he's all "he's like the song I could have known" etc and I'm like first of all mate, you hated him a second ago, and you've never even met him! Sorry this is totally unrelated, it just ALWAYS really annoys me!
I think it's because he sees in that heat of battle just how passionate Marius is, and how much he's willing to fight so he can return to Cosette.
I agree with Cadiva though, Chris got that song completely right, whereas Lea got it wrong on the same scale as Hugh Jackman got it wrong in the film - very wrong, by belting it far too much. It's a prayer first and foremost, and Chris's interpretation captured that.
I have to say I completely disagree with this - he brings the emotion and acting pretty much every time he sings.
In terms of Bring Him Home, I did love Lea's rendition but Chris's is more appropriate for the song.