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Regenerations used up... What next?
Shoppy
Posts: 1,094
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So now it would appear The Doctor has used up all his twelve regenerations ...
Original = 1st Doctor
First Regeneration = 2nd Doctor
Second Regeneration = 3rd Doctor
Third Regeneration = 4th Doctor
Fourth Regeneration = 5th Doctor
Fifth Regeneration = 6th Doctor
Sixth Regeneration = 7th Doctor
Seventh Regeneration = 8th Doctor
Eighth Regeneration = War Doctor
Ninth Regeneration = 9th Doctor
Tenth Regeneration = 10th Doctor
Eleventh Regeneration = 10th Doctor healed + Metacrisis Doctor born
Twelfth Regeneration = 11th Doctor
... how do we think Capaldi's Doctor is going to be given a new lease of life?
- A new lifecycle?
- The Sisterhood's Elixir?
- Some other Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey business?
Original = 1st Doctor
First Regeneration = 2nd Doctor
Second Regeneration = 3rd Doctor
Third Regeneration = 4th Doctor
Fourth Regeneration = 5th Doctor
Fifth Regeneration = 6th Doctor
Sixth Regeneration = 7th Doctor
Seventh Regeneration = 8th Doctor
Eighth Regeneration = War Doctor
Ninth Regeneration = 9th Doctor
Tenth Regeneration = 10th Doctor
Eleventh Regeneration = 10th Doctor healed + Metacrisis Doctor born
Twelfth Regeneration = 11th Doctor
... how do we think Capaldi's Doctor is going to be given a new lease of life?
- A new lifecycle?
- The Sisterhood's Elixir?
- Some other Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey business?
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Re-post. Implication that meta-crisis counts as a regeneration.
Undoubtedly true. I expect the Christmas special to be the last ever episode of Doctor Who.
I know it's a risk and could be very controversial. But I wouldn't be surprised to see something of the Time Lord civilization to return by 2014.
Why use a throw away line when Moffatt can potentially use the limit for a full story or even a series arc.
I wouldn't be surprised if part of the reason the War Doctor exists is to speed up the final regeneration so Moff can be the one who deals with it.
Fifth Doctor story with Turlough's departure.
During the episode, Peter Davison's Doctor enters a column of lifegiving cold fire.
From this moment, in my opinion, the producers had license to give him extra regenerations.
Failing that, River Song/Melanie Pond giving up her 'regenerations' to save Matt Smith's Doctor in 'Let's Kill Hitler'.
Until we were introduced to John Hurt, we assumed that there had been a simple chronology of Doctor's from 1 to 11. (or I did anyway)
When I saw McGann regenerating, I wanted so much for Christopher Ecclestone's image to appear as that had been the order I'd told myself would be so so long, but deep down I knew we'd end up with John Hurt, and so it transpired. This leaves the question opened as to who JH will end up becoming. The obvious answer would of course be Ecclestone, who we know of as the 9th Doctor but the question remains unanswered.
We know of course that in 2008 RTD threw the cat amongst the Pigeons when we saw David Tennant's Doctor start to regenerate. I still remember being unable to believe my eyes and the brain just start to explode as to the possibilities of what was going to happen with that epic cliffhanger.
He ended up spawning a clone after pouring the regeneration energy into his hand. Since then it's been a debate as to whether 10.5 as we know him counts as a regeneration.
In my view, I've never really been convinced. I've come to rhe realisation, late as it may be, that "The Doctor" isn't just a name, but a Title that he uses that reflects an ideology. Not just a Doctor of medicine; a physician, but as a Time Lord, a Doctor of everything. Ten's Doctor was pretty much in love with himself. He never really wanted to change through his 10th incarnation. He didn't want to change in "Stolen Earth/Jouney's End" and if he had a chance, he would have prevented it in "End of Time". I think this must have had an effect on is "handy-spare-hand" clon. 10.5, didn't share the same ideology as the regular Doctor and The Doctor made sure he cut his ties with him as soon as possible.
Plus the fact he siphoned off the energy and made sure it "didn't go all the way" is also a factor. Yes it started off as a genuine part of the natural regeneration cycle, that can't be ignored but it wasn't finished properly either. So for me, 10.5 was neither a proper Doctor or a regeneration.
Going back to Paul McGann and his regeneration that we were treated to yesterday, that in itself opens up a potential whole new regeneration cycle. McGann's Doctor had met his end and was only brought back by the Sisterhood of Karn(sp?). Drinking from the cup brought a new Elixir to him, new regeneration energy. The kind that maybe for me "explains" the difference in "classic who" style regeneration to "new who".
But as a consequence, maybe we go from
Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker, Davison, Baker, McCoy, McGann, Eccclestone, Tennant, Smith to
McGann, Hurt, Ecclestone, Tennant, Smith Capaldi
Interesting times for Doctor Who, and it'll be fun to see how this plays out.
Oh, well, he must really think that then.
But it doesn't matter what Moffat thinks, if it's the next writer/showrunner who has to deal with it.
Well that's kind of the point ... It does matter because we're there now,
Moffat has confirmed both that the twelve regeneration limit still stands AND that the metacrisis regeneration counted, which means we have already seen the twelfth regeneration in The End Of Time and The Eleventh Hour.
...and we know for definite now that Hurt IS an incarnation inbetween the 8th and 9th Doctors.
So that's (11 Doctors = 10 regenerations) + (metacrisis = 1 regeneration) + ("War Doctor" = 1 regeneration) = 12 regenerations.
We are there, limit reached.
So It's not the next showrunner who's going to have to deal with it, It's going to be dealt with in the near future.
...I was just wondering what people's thoughts were as to HOW?
Well, as Moffat seemingly hasn't handed in his resignation, and has, in fact chosen another Doctor, we must assume that it is going to be dealt with.
Or ignored, depending on how Moffat feels on the day.
I think that opportunity to start from scratch with Doctors life span have been made available because of the intervention with the sisterhood. Maybe the drink not only made him regenerate but actually brought him back to life. ie: a new 12 regenerations. He was dead after all
If they brought a human back to life wouldn't you return with all your abilities, could be that the Doctor is the same.
I agree with your analysis and the whole premise of the Doctor's death on Trenzalore suggests that he has run out of regenerations. The key point is that Moffatt has gone on and on about how the 50th will set up the next fifty years of Dr. Who and I would have thought the obvious implication is that he is establishing the basis for a whole new cycle of regenerations.
As to the question about how it seems likely that there is going to be some sort of reset regarding the way in which the War Doctor ended the Time War but I would struggle to get further than that. Much as I like Moffat, I do worry that there has just been too much messing with the continuity at too many points. Hopefully we can have a moratorium on any further messing with timelines after the fiftieth. On the other hand I would quite like the Time Lords to return properly and not in the way they did in the End of Time farce.
EDIT: Actually I have had a new thought. What about if the current Doctor really does die but we learn what it means to be the Doctor and the title is handed on to a new Gallifreyan in the resurrected civilisation. In other words there really is a new physical manifestation of the Doctor who inherits the moral code of Doctorhood. Rather than a regeneration there is a handover of the title before the MS doctor goes to his grave on Trenzalore. Of course that won't happen but I at least want marks for originality...
Perhaps the Sisters will also be able to grant the Doctor a new regeneration cycle?
The McGann/Hurt regeneration is the earliest "explosion of gold" regeneration, and all those that we have seen since have looked the same. Maybe this is also a gift of the Sisterhood, as Kent says.
You could have The War Doctor at the end of the time war full of regrets and guilty, go back to Karn and as them give him infinite incarnations, feeling he has to serve a penance.
You could have Hurt regenate into Ecclestone and Smith into Capaldi simultaneously and say it caused an anomaly in his time stream
I've not watched it recently so may be wrong but didn't he say that he filtered the rest of the regeneration energy into his hand which is why the regeneration only healed him.
If he did that would mean he did use a full regeneration cycle, just not all within his own body.
As I said i've not watched it recently so may be wrong but that would be my understanding of it if I am write.
You could be right but i think if this were true it would have been explored in the narrative. The same with River passing her energy to the Doctor it may mean he has more lives and could possibly become a woman. I guess we have to wait until moffat or whoever decides the new rules
The Regeneration has 2 purposes in my eyes. 1. To heal the body of whatever ailment has triggered the regeneration process. 2. Second, to change the DNA of the incarnation, mind and body.
The regeneration cycle cannot do that if it is not finding the correct and complete DNA of the host. The Handyspare hand was a good match but not a complete copy of the Doctor in itself so I think that was one reason why it was only able to make a human clone.
I think they'll count the regenerations so that Peter Capaldi ends the series in 3 years time when he dies. He will have an onscreen scottish accent (like Sylvestor) and Jenna is the most Ace-like companion we've had. I'm really looking forward to Capaldi's spoon playing and question mark umbrella. Clara will soon work out how to make explosive leaves (leaf9) and give the sonic rest from resolving every plot.
I think that was meant more to mean to stop the regeneration fully changing the doctor, he then says he used the regeneration to heal himself and put the rest (which would have meant a new body) into the hand.
Its open to interpretation whichever way you look at it, however as moffat has said it counted as a regeneration, then we have to accept it as such.
its different to smiths doctor showing using a little energy to heal rivers wrist, had tennants doctor done something similar then it would have been hard pushed to count as a full regeneration