To me it sounds like he was trying to gain access - whether that was before he felt he had hit the "intruder" or otherwise who knows? If he was terrified at the time why would he want to gain access? The possibility is there that RS locked herself in the loo for safety reasons and things escalated...
There is that possibility, although the empty bladder thing suggests she did go to the loo.
But with the caveat that I don't know about the bladder emptying when dead / dying thing. Or there must be the possibility that she wet herself out of abject terror.
Again, hopefully the sort of thing that forensics can shed light on, for example, the presence of urine on clothing or the floor.
Make of this what you will. He spent one night in jail after one such domestic incident in 2009.
First there was the revelation yesterday that the police had been called to his home in the past for reasons of a “domestic nature.” Now it has come out that authorities were called to Pistorius’ home just hours before the shooting due to neighbors complaining about a loud argument between the couple.
And people think because his agent says he is a nice guy and doesn't have a temper that it is true - some people are easily led I suppose :eek:
There is that possibility, although the empty bladder thing suggests she did go to the loo.
But with the caveat that I don't know about the bladder emptying when dead / dying thing. Or there must be the possibility that she wet herself out of abject terror.
Again, hopefully the sort of thing that forensics can shed light on, for example, the presence of urine on clothing on the floor.
There's every possibility that she was in there for quite some time (hence the 17 minute gunshot gap some neighbours reported) which would give every chance to have a wee, scared or not. If the first shots were to scare her after a long argument, and he was later just trying to gain access (in a violent manner).
There is that possibility, although the empty bladder thing suggests she did go to the loo.
But with the caveat that I don't know about the bladder emptying when dead / dying thing. Or there must be the possibility that she wet herself out of abject terror.
Again, hopefully the sort of thing that forensics can shed light on, for example, the presence of urine on clothing on the floor.
Who knows (if they were arguing) how long she was in there? Could have used the loo during the arguments, it does happen
I am still really struggling with his reaction to the noise.
I know people will say he want thinking straight or that he may have felt like a hero but the sensible thing to do is:
1. He hears a noise which he believes is an intruder
2. Get the gun first, crouch behind the bed and cover the passage from the bathroom
3. gently wake RS and tell her you think there is an intruder, tell her to phone security/cops
4. Keep the passageway covered. An intruder coming from the bathroom will be coming from a lighter environment into a darker one and will be more visible to OP than vice-versa.
Instead.
1. He hears a noise which he believes is an intruder.
2. He gets gun and heads toward danger round a 180 degree blind corner
3. He does not wake RS
4. He then enters the bathroom, and unloads 4 rounds into a cubicle which he doesn't know is occupied (i presume he didn't go up and rattle the door)
5. He then goes and sits back on the bed
6. He then thinks oh my GF isn't here maybe I shot her.
There's every possibility that she was in there for quite some time (hence the 17 minute gunshot gap some neighbours reported) which would give every chance to have a wee, scared or not. If the first shots were to scare her after a long argument, and he was later just trying to gain access (in a violent manner).
My chain of thought at the moment Poot. (no pun intended), in fact needing the loo if she was scared is likely.
There's every possibility that she was in there for quite some time (hence the 17 minute gunshot gap some neighbours reported) which would give every chance to have a wee, scared or not. If the first shots were to scare her after a long argument, and he was later just trying to gain access (in a violent manner).
Yep, I can well imagine that she locked herself in the bathroom after a serious argument and maybe threats, and that in a rage, he tried to force his way in by shooting through the door. So although he may not have intended to kill her, by his reckless actions he may well be found guilty of murder or manslaughter under SA law.
If the authorities don't manage to find a way to get him off, of course (assuming that they want to).
Who knows (if they were arguing) how long she was in there? Could have used the loo during the arguments, it does happen
From experience someone doing something normal like going to loo during a big row is such a wind-up (not in any way excusing just saying). I definitely recall myself delivering some heartfelt speech during a row and my GF just walking off to the loo or make a cup of tea, or turn the telly on, and it just destroys your argument.
Maybe the visit to the loo tipped him over the edge.
From experience someone doing something normal like going to loo during a big row is such a wind-up (not in any way excusing just saying). I definitely recall myself delivering some heartfelt speech during a row and my GF just walking off to the loo or make a cup of tea, or turn the telly on, and it just destroys your argument.
Maybe the visit to the loo tipped him over the edge.
Crikey, I didn't realise one of those police domestic incidents was on that very night.
One thing that would prove, if true, is that the neighbours have verifiable proof that they can hear arguments from his house, and his house for certain.
Enough noise, I should imagine, to deter any burglar who fancied his chances.
I'm not sure that's much of a defence if the aim was to rip his terrified girlfriend out of the bathroom...
Maybe she went to the loo but the lock was stuck, she was calling for help and couldn't get out of the loo. He then thought I know i shoot the lock off. Maybe he was on a promise and couldn't wait while he found a screwdriver.
Maybe she went to the loo but the lock was stuck, she was calling for help and couldn't get out of the loo. He then thought I know i shoot the lock off. Maybe he was on a promise and couldn't wait while he found a screwdriver.
That's very much the OJ defense of "Why were you speeding down the highway away from the police? - because the police were chasing me"
NP, I just would be horrified if I was seen to be finding anything that mitigates OP. Even in his best scenario he has acted like a foolish, dangerous tool.
Yes, I did. I've put the correction in my previous responses:
"Edit: I've discovered my finding was wrong:
"
But surely 'everyday legs' refers to his normal prosthetics, (which he boosted with longer ones for the Olympics). He couldn't be 5'9 without his prosthetics surely?
Make of this what you will. He spent one night in jail after one such domestic incident in 2009.
First there was the revelation yesterday that the police had been called to his home in the past for reasons of a “domestic nature.” Now it has come out that authorities were called to Pistorius’ home just hours before the shooting due to neighbors complaining about a loud argument between the couple.
Really???? where has that been stated?
I'm shocked that hasn't been brought up at the bail trial. If that's true then curtains for him I think.
Shooting four times into the toilet door was almost certainly going to kill anyone who was in there, or at the very least wound them severely. No matter how you look at it, he intended to murder. In the UK, he'd have no defence.
However, fear of violent, armed intruders is widespread and justified in South Africa, going by several first-hand accounts I've heard from people who left SA for the UK after appalling experiences. Security guards get bribed; large armed gangs storm a property and get in through whatever undefended entrances there are. (It's hot there at this time of year - windows will be open and may not be barred.) Women get raped and killed. One young woman I talked to sat terrified in her ground-floor bedroom while gang-members tried to bash down both doors of the room. Police arrived just in time.
I suspect people in SA will find OP's defence more plausible than it sounds from the safety of the UK.
I am still really struggling with his reaction to the noise.
I know people will say he want thinking straight or that he may have felt like a hero but the sensible thing to do is:
1. He hears a noise which he believes is an intruder
2. Get the gun first, crouch behind the bed and cover the passage from the bathroom
3. gently wake RS and tell her you think there is an intruder, tell her to phone security/cops
4. Keep the passageway covered. An intruder coming from the bathroom will be coming from a lighter environment into a darker one and will be more visible to OP than vice-versa.
Instead.
1. He hears a noise which he believes is an intruder.
2. He gets gun and heads toward danger round a 180 degree blind corner
3. He does not wake RS
4. He then enters the bathroom, and unloads 4 rounds into a cubicle which he doesn't know is occupied (i presume he didn't go up and rattle the door)
5. He then goes and sits back on the bed
6. He then thinks oh my GF isn't here maybe I shot her.
Whilst with hindsight, and a bit of time to think about it all (which you obviously have), that's all very easy to think.
But at the time its entirely plausible that OP (or anyone for that matter) would necessarily pause to consider all of that.
With the second list, a big part of that would be down to the individual's temperament - and we now know OP to be fairly hotheaded, which would lend credence to such actions, however foolhardy and reckless they may appear to us.
Comments
There is that possibility, although the empty bladder thing suggests she did go to the loo.
But with the caveat that I don't know about the bladder emptying when dead / dying thing. Or there must be the possibility that she wet herself out of abject terror.
Again, hopefully the sort of thing that forensics can shed light on, for example, the presence of urine on clothing or the floor.
And people think because his agent says he is a nice guy and doesn't have a temper that it is true - some people are easily led I suppose :eek:
There's every possibility that she was in there for quite some time (hence the 17 minute gunshot gap some neighbours reported) which would give every chance to have a wee, scared or not. If the first shots were to scare her after a long argument, and he was later just trying to gain access (in a violent manner).
Who knows (if they were arguing) how long she was in there? Could have used the loo during the arguments, it does happen
I know people will say he want thinking straight or that he may have felt like a hero but the sensible thing to do is:
1. He hears a noise which he believes is an intruder
2. Get the gun first, crouch behind the bed and cover the passage from the bathroom
3. gently wake RS and tell her you think there is an intruder, tell her to phone security/cops
4. Keep the passageway covered. An intruder coming from the bathroom will be coming from a lighter environment into a darker one and will be more visible to OP than vice-versa.
Instead.
1. He hears a noise which he believes is an intruder.
2. He gets gun and heads toward danger round a 180 degree blind corner
3. He does not wake RS
4. He then enters the bathroom, and unloads 4 rounds into a cubicle which he doesn't know is occupied (i presume he didn't go up and rattle the door)
5. He then goes and sits back on the bed
6. He then thinks oh my GF isn't here maybe I shot her.
My chain of thought at the moment Poot. (no pun intended), in fact needing the loo if she was scared is likely.
I'm not sure that's much of a defence if the aim was to rip his terrified girlfriend out of the bathroom...
Yep, I can well imagine that she locked herself in the bathroom after a serious argument and maybe threats, and that in a rage, he tried to force his way in by shooting through the door. So although he may not have intended to kill her, by his reckless actions he may well be found guilty of murder or manslaughter under SA law.
If the authorities don't manage to find a way to get him off, of course (assuming that they want to).
From experience someone doing something normal like going to loo during a big row is such a wind-up (not in any way excusing just saying). I definitely recall myself delivering some heartfelt speech during a row and my GF just walking off to the loo or make a cup of tea, or turn the telly on, and it just destroys your argument.
Maybe the visit to the loo tipped him over the edge.
Which begs the question, why did he think there was an armed intruder in the toilet in the first place?
So it's actually her who's guilty here!
Enough noise, I should imagine, to deter any burglar who fancied his chances.
Maybe she went to the loo but the lock was stuck, she was calling for help and couldn't get out of the loo. He then thought I know i shoot the lock off. Maybe he was on a promise and couldn't wait while he found a screwdriver.
Absolutely not. I would never say that. I am just saying use of domestic activities during arguments is a good way to show you don't care.
I was agreeing that a visit to the toilet is not incompatible with a row. Maybe she thought if I walk away it will calm down.
Some posters earlier seemed to think that a toilet visits might exclude the possibility of a row.
Unless I've read the OP wrong I didn't get that message from their post.
That's very much the OJ defense of "Why were you speeding down the highway away from the police? - because the police were chasing me"
I was just being cheeky, apologies.
NP, I just would be horrified if I was seen to be finding anything that mitigates OP. Even in his best scenario he has acted like a foolish, dangerous tool.
This is what I don't get. He is guilty of murdering someone. He isn't innocent.
But surely 'everyday legs' refers to his normal prosthetics, (which he boosted with longer ones for the Olympics). He couldn't be 5'9 without his prosthetics surely?
A celebrity status seems to blind quite a few.
Really???? where has that been stated?
I'm shocked that hasn't been brought up at the bail trial. If that's true then curtains for him I think.
However, fear of violent, armed intruders is widespread and justified in South Africa, going by several first-hand accounts I've heard from people who left SA for the UK after appalling experiences. Security guards get bribed; large armed gangs storm a property and get in through whatever undefended entrances there are. (It's hot there at this time of year - windows will be open and may not be barred.) Women get raped and killed. One young woman I talked to sat terrified in her ground-floor bedroom while gang-members tried to bash down both doors of the room. Police arrived just in time.
I suspect people in SA will find OP's defence more plausible than it sounds from the safety of the UK.
Whilst with hindsight, and a bit of time to think about it all (which you obviously have), that's all very easy to think.
But at the time its entirely plausible that OP (or anyone for that matter) would necessarily pause to consider all of that.
With the second list, a big part of that would be down to the individual's temperament - and we now know OP to be fairly hotheaded, which would lend credence to such actions, however foolhardy and reckless they may appear to us.