Don't you think it says as much about M&S and their policies as it does about the prejudices of some people who'd actually stop shopping somewhere that is a national shop selling a huge range of clothing, home products, food because they've got a policy (that is not mandatory, and is unlikely to even be used) that affects tills in their food hall? I think it does.
It depends doesn't it. If it causes inconvenience and delays (and it might well do at busy times) for me as acustomer, then yes that would be a factor in my choice to go there in future.
Not because 'I don't like Muslims' -I have absolutely no problem with them - but because I expect a certain level of customer service, and this policy could well affect that.
In my experience the service at the tills in M+S ia already slower than it is in other shops, most of the things are more expensive, and I don't think this is going to improve the situation for their customers. It doesn't seem like a sensible business decision to me.
That's right, if the article said it was M&S policy then with the information we have right now, that's the basis for the debate. Should further information be forthcoming we can see what that means.
So for now it's M&S policy. And Muslims weren't campaigning or protesting. I think for the time being these are two pretty reasonably accurate facts. If someone has information that belies that, I'll be as keen as anyone to see it.
I bet it was implemented under the advice of HR lawyers as a liability shield for future potential HR legal issues, rather than through actual staff complaints.
I'm amused by the idea of customers racially profiling checkout assistants...
The thing is, if you take alcohol to a self-service till you have to wait for a shop assistant to come over and validate it anyway, in my experience So anyone who did that would be losing just as much time. But at least they wouldn't be giving in to the Muslims!
All the "it's M&S policy, not driven by muslims" thing is a bit of a red herring. If a muslim server enacts it then you're personally inconvenienced by someone involving you in their irrational beliefs either way.
It's not a red herring in the context of the source of it.
It's a separate issue to exploring the "what does it mean if a Muslim assistant did invoke the policy?". But it's not a red herring.
Let's not go down the route of disregarding parts of the debate - not all of us want to talk about all aspects of the issue but it shouldn't stop those of us who do from discussing it, right?
If I got to the top of the queue and the assistant refused to serve me something they are selling in the shop I'd just abandon my shopping at the till. There's no way I'd queue twice.
I bet it was implemented under the advice of HR lawyers as a liability shield for future potential HR legal issues, rather than through actual staff complaints.
Yeah a few other posters have said the same. It's certainly feasible. I hope we can get a definitive answer from M&S or elsewhere but for now we just have the information in the news article and our own debates and theories.
I do have to say the idea of it being a HR/lawyer liability rule does seem feasible to me.
Also it's the DM. If Muslims HAD been protesting about wanting a policy, surely the DM of all papers would have put that as being central to the story? Surely they'd have been making that a primary aspect of the headline? But it doesn't appear to be the case.
Well, I have spent years as a consultant to retail organisations, including M&S, and I disagree. M&S know their customers and know most won't care about this at all.
M&S have had pretty hard time, overall. You say their food side has been okay but the whole story is that it doesn't take long to lose your footing. One minute you're the nation's favourite knickers seller and the next you're not. Poor customer service plays its part. Otherwise companies wouldn't spend so much on staff training.
It depends doesn't it. If it causes inconvenience and delays (and it might well do at busy times) for me as acustomer, then yes that would be a factor in my choice to go there in future.
Not because 'I don't like Muslims' -I have absolutely no problem with them - but because I expect a certain level of customer service, and this policy could well affect that.
Oh come on... we all know the biggest delays are caused by other customers. Any Supermarket that has a coupon system going on is going to cause more delay than someone saying "can you scan these sausages for me thanks".
It depends doesn't it. If it causes inconvenience and delays (and it might well do at busy times) for me as acustomer, then yes that would be a factor in my choice to go there in future.
Not because 'I don't like Muslims' -I have absolutely no problem with them - but because I expect a certain level of customer service, and this policy could well affect that.
In my experience the service at the tills in M+S ia already slower than it is in other shops, most of the things are more expensive, and I don't think this is going to improve the situation for their customers. It doesn't seem like a sensible business decision to me.
I get you in terms of time and inconvenience. I'm just unsure how often it would/could happen. And I would hope they'd call for a replacement assistant rather than direct you to another till - that would be quite a stupid situation. All in all I think it's a bonkers policy by the company. I hope they will revoke it. I don't think Muslims have been calling for it, and I don't think it's going to help the company's image.
The Telegraph article implies that much the same arrangements apply in Morrisons and Tesco, by the way. Just for those of you who are crossing unacceptable shops off your list.
..Yeah it's always easy to say that now, never easy in real life though is it when you're on a tight schedule, though I suppose you have all the free time in the world..if you get my drift.
M&S have had pretty hard time, overall. You say their food side has been okay but the whole story is that it doesn't take long to lose your footing. One minute you're the nation's favourite knickers seller and the next you're not. Poor customer service plays its part. Otherwise companies wouldn't spend so much on staff training.
I agree - but I doubt this issue even figures on their 'threats radar' to be honest. They will do what they need to in order to protect their valuable trained staff... if there was an issue in a particular store over this then they would simply find another way to deal with it.
This is one of those topics where you can take the arguments for or against the issue and turn them back on the person holding the viewpoint.
So you can say "If the customer doesn't like it, they can go elsewhere to shop", but you can also say "If the employee doesn't like it, they can go elsewhere to work".
Or "M&S should respect the views of its employees" can become "M&S should respect the views of its customers".
And so forth.
The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the M&S policy is at fault here. After all, the employee is paid to do their job. The customer gives their money to the company in return for goods and provision of service. So to accommodate the former at the expense of the latter doesn't really make good business sense to me.
I'm not anti Muslim I just feel that religion is a private thing that shouldn't really impact your job.
It's a bit like how I don't think it's acceptable for registrars to refuse to conduct civil partnerships on religious grounds. You are entirely free to believe whatever you so choose in your personal life, but when your religious views are imposed on a customer through the course of your job it doesn't seem right.
That said, this policy will likely impact a tiny, tiny amount of people in the long run and the hysteria it's generated is silly.
Crikey, like M&S aren't already tediously slow at serving people. Well actually it's their customers that are like snails, never known anything like it.
I've just been to a Muslim country and they were quite happy to serve me alcohol??
This is what I don't understand,I have been served my Muslims when buying alcohol.
I think the people who are refusing to do so are a very small minority and people shouldn't be getting offended. If you treat people with tolerance and respect it is more likely to be reciprocated.
I agree - but I doubt this issue even figures on their 'threats radar' to be honest. They will do what they need to in order to protect their valuable trained staff... if there was an issue in a particular store over this then they would simply find another way to deal with it.
I'd be astounded if this brought about their downfall. It really is inconceivable.
The Telegraph article implies that much the same arrangements apply in Morrisons and Tesco, by the way. Just for those of you who are crossing unacceptable shops off your list.
I agree - but I doubt this issue even figures on their 'threats radar' to be honest. They will do what they need to in order to protect their valuable trained staff... if there was an issue in a particular store over this then they would simply find another way to deal with it.
I'm really getting the impression from your posts that M+S value their staff over their customers. Interesting.
It would be to me. I don't live in an Islamic state. But of course the answer is to stop emplying Muslims who refuse to carry out their duties. Who else would be allowed to decide what goods they will supply and which not?
For one thing, I treat the elderly with respect and will help them if help is required. Another thing is though they might be elderly, you can learn a lot from them, as they are generally much more wiser than the average young i-Phone wielding hoodie, that thinks they know everything, but know diddly shit and try and make up for the short fall, by being a major bullshitter. You see it all too often these days.
Could be - the Tesco quote is a bit vague. But it sounds like it's down to the discretion of the store manager, so I expect if the problem is at all widespread, some Tesco stores will make allowances.
It could all be sorted by having "Green anything goes" lanes, and "Red religious bigot" lanes. Hugely lit up so everyone knows which checkout assistant is on.
He'd probably tell some muslims to stop being so bloody precious as nobody is requiring them to unwrap and lick the goods as they put them through the scanner.
Then again this might be some of the usual DM bullshit that only has a grain of truth in it.
Comments
You got me there! I couldn't help but refer to the Princess Bride pun
It depends doesn't it. If it causes inconvenience and delays (and it might well do at busy times) for me as acustomer, then yes that would be a factor in my choice to go there in future.
Not because 'I don't like Muslims' -I have absolutely no problem with them - but because I expect a certain level of customer service, and this policy could well affect that.
In my experience the service at the tills in M+S ia already slower than it is in other shops, most of the things are more expensive, and I don't think this is going to improve the situation for their customers. It doesn't seem like a sensible business decision to me.
I bet it was implemented under the advice of HR lawyers as a liability shield for future potential HR legal issues, rather than through actual staff complaints.
It's not a red herring in the context of the source of it.
It's a separate issue to exploring the "what does it mean if a Muslim assistant did invoke the policy?". But it's not a red herring.
Let's not go down the route of disregarding parts of the debate - not all of us want to talk about all aspects of the issue but it shouldn't stop those of us who do from discussing it, right?
Yeah a few other posters have said the same. It's certainly feasible. I hope we can get a definitive answer from M&S or elsewhere but for now we just have the information in the news article and our own debates and theories.
I do have to say the idea of it being a HR/lawyer liability rule does seem feasible to me.
Also it's the DM. If Muslims HAD been protesting about wanting a policy, surely the DM of all papers would have put that as being central to the story? Surely they'd have been making that a primary aspect of the headline? But it doesn't appear to be the case.
M&S have had pretty hard time, overall. You say their food side has been okay but the whole story is that it doesn't take long to lose your footing. One minute you're the nation's favourite knickers seller and the next you're not. Poor customer service plays its part. Otherwise companies wouldn't spend so much on staff training.
Oh come on... we all know the biggest delays are caused by other customers. Any Supermarket that has a coupon system going on is going to cause more delay than someone saying "can you scan these sausages for me thanks".
But we all know that don't we ;-)
I get you in terms of time and inconvenience. I'm just unsure how often it would/could happen. And I would hope they'd call for a replacement assistant rather than direct you to another till - that would be quite a stupid situation. All in all I think it's a bonkers policy by the company. I hope they will revoke it. I don't think Muslims have been calling for it, and I don't think it's going to help the company's image.
No I don't,would you care to explain..
I agree - but I doubt this issue even figures on their 'threats radar' to be honest. They will do what they need to in order to protect their valuable trained staff... if there was an issue in a particular store over this then they would simply find another way to deal with it.
So you can say "If the customer doesn't like it, they can go elsewhere to shop", but you can also say "If the employee doesn't like it, they can go elsewhere to work".
Or "M&S should respect the views of its employees" can become "M&S should respect the views of its customers".
And so forth.
The more I think about it, the more I come to the conclusion that the M&S policy is at fault here. After all, the employee is paid to do their job. The customer gives their money to the company in return for goods and provision of service. So to accommodate the former at the expense of the latter doesn't really make good business sense to me.
I'm not anti Muslim I just feel that religion is a private thing that shouldn't really impact your job.
It's a bit like how I don't think it's acceptable for registrars to refuse to conduct civil partnerships on religious grounds. You are entirely free to believe whatever you so choose in your personal life, but when your religious views are imposed on a customer through the course of your job it doesn't seem right.
That said, this policy will likely impact a tiny, tiny amount of people in the long run and the hysteria it's generated is silly.
This is what I don't understand,I have been served my Muslims when buying alcohol.
I think the people who are refusing to do so are a very small minority and people shouldn't be getting offended. If you treat people with tolerance and respect it is more likely to be reciprocated.
I'd be astounded if this brought about their downfall. It really is inconceivable.
I think it's just Morrison's, not Tescos.
I'm really getting the impression from your posts that M+S value their staff over their customers. Interesting.
What if it's an elderly Muslim?!
Could be - the Tesco quote is a bit vague. But it sounds like it's down to the discretion of the store manager, so I expect if the problem is at all widespread, some Tesco stores will make allowances.
He'd probably tell some muslims to stop being so bloody precious as nobody is requiring them to unwrap and lick the goods as they put them through the scanner.
Then again this might be some of the usual DM bullshit that only has a grain of truth in it.