It's actually very difficult to expel a pupil. I've only known it happen once in ten years of teaching when a lad was found to have sold cannabis to a classmate.
If the HT is going for an expulsion I can only guess it'll be on the grounds of the behaviour of the parents rather than just breaking this policy. I can't see that he'd get it through otherwise. I do vaguely remember when I was at primary school one boy was removed because his father had threatened the Head.
It's actually very difficult to expel a pupil. I've only known it happen once in ten years of teaching when a lad was found to have sold cannabis to a classmate.
If the HT is going for an expulsion I can only guess it'll be on the grounds of the behaviour of the parents rather than just breaking this policy. I can't see that he'd get it through otherwise. I do vaguely remember when I was at primary school one boy was removed because his father had threatened the Head.
Even so in those instances, parents can be banned from entering school grounds/premises etc. Not a great solution as teachers/parents do need to communicate with each other, but a solution rather than an expulsion.
Then again if a parent is like that towards the staff, then the best solution is for that parent to seek an alternative school for their child.
Even so in those instances, parents can be banned from entering school grounds/premises etc. Not a great solution as teachers/parents do need to communicate with each other, but a solution rather than an expulsion.
Then again if a parent is like that towards the staff, then the best solution is for that parent to seek an alternative school for their child.
Quite. With primary schools it is a bit easier to keep them out of the buildings as they're generally locked down like Fort Knox but secondary it is a different matter.
Our rule as such has always been 'if you don't like our policies then please take your child elsewhere'. We can afford to do this as an over subscribed secondary with four alternatives in the area. The only time we've had an issue was when one mother removed her child because we wanted to test him for ASD. The child in question was VERY clearly on the spectrum but she didn't want him tested. Also meant he didn't get any of the help he would've been entitled to.
If the HT is going for an expulsion I can only guess it'll be on the grounds of the behaviour of the parents rather than just breaking this policy.
And as a result, go against national guidelines on exclusions ie over a disagreement with a parent.
In terms of threats, in my experience, you only have to raise your voice these days in order to be determined threatening and abusive so any time this is raised as a reason, I treat it with a pinch of salt (but not too much, otherwise its against healthy eating )
Even so in those instances, parents can be banned from entering school grounds/premises etc. Not a great solution as teachers/parents do need to communicate with each other, but a solution rather than an expulsion.
Then again if a parent is like that towards the staff, then the best solution is for that parent to seek an alternative school for their child.
It certainly is. And staff shouldn't have to deal with abusive parents. They're not the police or social workers.
As I've said before. I can understand why primary schools try very hard with the 'healthy eating', but I don't think schools should have to implement such. It's a waste of time and it's up to the parents.
And 28% of kids between 2 and 15 are overweight of obese, but that's the parent's issue.
The government are concerned, but they should attach health checks to doctor's surgeries, not schools.
At least a doctor has a 'right' to say 'you are feeding your child crap and it will lead to problems for them'. Not that some parents wont get all stupidly angry about that either mind.
Teachers shouldn't have to be involved. They have enough to deal with.
And as a result, go against national guidelines on exclusions ie over a disagreement with a parent.
In terms of threats, in my experience, you only have to raise your voice these days in order to be determined threatening and abusive so any time this is raised as a reason, I treat it with a pinch of salt (but not too much, otherwise its against healthy eating )
It is hard to expel a child. I think it should be easier. I also think if a parent is unreasonable and abusive, then the school should be able to expel the child.
Some parents are so keen on responsiblity they should take the consequences of being needlessly and unreasonably difficult and rude.
Perhaps some of them might actually think about their kids and their own behaviour.
Bean dip with veggie sticks
Hummus with dry crackers
Hard-boiled egg
Bean Salad
Home-made Vegetable crisps
Cheese and corn scone
Cubes of Edam cheese with pineapple
Chicken guacamole wrap
Tuna and Lemon wrap
Pasta Salad
Noodle Salad
Couscous Salad
Potato and Tuna Salad
Ham Salad mini rolls
Salad sandwich
Sushi
Egg Mayo and Cress on wholemeal
Vegetable fritatta
Ploughman's with apple
Pitta pockets filled with carrot and cheese
Baked plums with custard
Yoghurt with added fruit and granola
Carrot/Courgette muffins
Banana bread
Fruit salad
Fruit and seed energy bar
Raisin Cookie
Flapjack
Smoothies
Apple juice added to water
Yoghurt drinks
All these items would be home made/cooked to ensure no excess of salt or sugar. I'd probably need to get more dairy in there, the lack of which shows my own food bias, but I am not too arrogant to ask for guidance on that (ETA: On second thoughts, one would hope I was well versed by the time my child was of school age).
:D:DI can just see Mums everywhere getting busy making home made veggie crisps and carrot and courgette muffins because the head teacher tells therm to. Back to the Fifties apron and kitchen, Mums.
:D:DI can just see Mums everywhere getting busy making home made veggie crisps and carrot and courgette muffins because the head teacher tells therm to. Back to the Fifties apron and kitchen, Mums.
The salad sandwich, egg sandwich and ham roll don't seem toooo hard.:D:D:D
To be fair and balanced and show support for the parents, the HT may be very good at his job, but have no people skills whatsoever.
Nothing will infuriate a parent more than been spoken to or written to like you are a child, with no option of a compromise. Maybe the HT has just said these are the rules obey or face the consequences, with no room for dialogue. Hence why the parents felt the need to go to the press, or stand their ground.
I agree dearmrman , I think the whole situation escalated in the meeting between the HT and the boys dad and should never have got to this stage , the HT is paid well to run the school and occasional conflict with parents is to be expected , he has made a total mess of the whole situation.
Regarding the policy of the lunchboxes - someone else mentioned that there were no comments from other parents at the school, I must admit I find that strange . I am surprised that out of almost 300 children only this one set of parents have not been happy . Could it be that a lot of parents may have been unhappy with the change of policy and that may also explain the lack of comments from parents actually SUPPORTING the head .
I am surprised that out of almost 300 children only this one set of parents have not been happy . Could it be that a lot of parents may have been unhappy with the change of policy and that may also explain the lack of comments from parents actually SUPPORTING the head .
Its more than likely that the parents and the expelled children have been made an example of. The HT is say 'don't mess with me!' The other parents are probably to scared to speak up.
I remember working with a HT a few years ago who, when any parent ever raised issues or claimed they were unhappy with anything, would brand the parent/s as trouble makers and refer to them as such during parent/teacher meetings. Very unprofessional! Some people just like to be the big fish in their little pond.
The salad sandwich, egg sandwich and ham roll don't seem toooo hard.:D:D:D
Neither do hummus and crackers - but someone has posted that a school has banned hummus (and gucamole) as being too high in fat. so cross that off the 'good food' list.
The point is that this policy is going to lead to endless wrangling about what is good food and what isn't. Think of the egg scare, the poultry scare, the butter scare...allcrises which came and went. Are lunch boxes to be subjected to every new panic?
Will vegetarian teachers be banning meat? (Not so far fetched - a teacher at my kids' school preached revolting things to her class and it was only discovered whe children started refusing to eat and becoming extremely distressed) unless they could be vegetarian. This imposing crank views about food is a nonsense. Schools have better things to do with their time and food faddists should be made to go and sit in the corner.
:D:DI can just see Mums everywhere getting busy making home made veggie crisps and carrot and courgette muffins because the head teacher tells therm to. Back to the Fifties apron and kitchen, Mums.
The salad sandwich, egg sandwich and ham roll don't seem toooo hard.:D:D:D
To be fair, I was only rising to Hotgossips challenge. After all, they could only come up with
Bottle of water
Piece of fruit
Yoghurt (for the time being)
Sandwich
Anyway, I revised my list to remove any fussy food preparation and most of the baking. But I have added a brown rice pudding that can be made on the hob...and frozen to be used later! 50s Mums never had it so good
Plums can be drizzled with honey and baked perfectly well in the microwave for a couple of minutes. Flapjacks do need some time in the oven, but they are child's play to make and keep well. They are a good way to introduce fruit and seeds into the diet of children who may otherwise have issues eating those foods.
I'm a bit short on snacks, but a smaller size salad to go with a sandwich rather than replace it would work.
Hummus with dry crackers or veggie sticks (scratches out hummus)
Hard-boiled egg with chopped tomato
Bean Salad
Cubes of Edam cheese with pineapple
Chicken guacamole wrap
Tuna and Lemon wrap
Pasta Salad
Noodle Salad
Couscous Salad
Potato and Tuna Salad
Ham Salad mini rolls
Salad sandwich
Egg Mayo and Cress on wholemeal
Ploughman's with apple
Pitta pockets filled with carrot and cheese
Baked plums with custard
Yoghurt with added fruit and granola
Fruit salad
Fruit and seed energy bar
Flapjack
Brown rice pudding with raisins
Smoothies
Apple juice added to water
Yoghurt drink
Neither do hummus and crackers - but someone has posted that a school has banned hummus (and gucamole) as being too high in fat. so cross that off the 'good food' list.
The point is that this policy is going to lead to endless wrangling about what is good food and what isn't. Think of the egg scare, the poultry scare, the butter scare...allcrises which came and went. Are lunch boxes to be subjected to every new panic?
Will vegetarian teachers be banning meat? (Not so far fetched - a teacher at my kids' school preached revolting things to her class and it was only discovered whe children started refusing to eat and becoming extremely distressed) unless they could be vegetarian. This imposing crank views about food is a nonsense. Schools have better things to do with their time and food faddists should be made to go and sit in the corner.
Oh crap
Yeah, I noticed all the lamb on the school lunch menus posted and realised our kids are still being deprived of beef in schools! And no pork or offal either. Shocking.
Yeah, I noticed all the lamb on the school lunch menus posted and realised our kids are still being deprived of beef in schools! And no pork or offal either. Shocking.
Pork in schools may upset some people but who cares if it does up set some people,there is no need not to have it the menu.
Exclusion is a last resort for any school DP, it's not a simple decision to make and has to be thoroughly justified when there is no other course of action. We can only second guess a lot of it but we do know that the parents were abusive and did threaten to send the child with just a banana and water I think it was. What if, and it is a what if, the parents were also going against a blanket ban on things containing peanuts? The school has a blanket ban them.
There are more of them DP?
Well this head went pretty quickly down this route.
If it was for a heat of the moment throwaway comment about a banana and water, it is even worse.
There has been no suggestion of peanuts has there?
It certainly is. And staff shouldn't have to deal with abusive parents. They're not the police or social workers.
As I've said before. I can understand why primary schools try very hard with the 'healthy eating', but I don't think schools should have to implement such. It's a waste of time and it's up to the parents.
And 28% of kids between 2 and 15 are overweight of obese, but that's the parent's issue.
The government are concerned, but they should attach health checks to doctor's surgeries, not schools.
At least a doctor has a 'right' to say 'you are feeding your child crap and it will lead to problems for them'. Not that some parents wont get all stupidly angry about that either mind.
Teachers shouldn't have to be involved. They have enough to deal with.
At last, you see it, and they didn't have to get involved to this level.
What would the problem have been in just giving advice, and accepting it wasn't going to be taken. Plenty of other kids take in similar stuff, without this happening.
Pork in schools may upset some people but who cares if it does up set some people,there is no need not to have it the menu.
As long as it is kept separate from other foods and the kitchen has pots and utensils designated for the pork dishes and separate utensils for everything else, its workable. It's how the kitchens of families with both Muslim and non-Muslim members manage.
I took a couple of minutes to randomly google school menus and happy to report beef and pork are still very much on the menu :cool: I guess the one linked to was in an area with a large population of British-Indian Muslims and isn't representative of your average school menu.
At last, you see it, and they didn't have to get involved to this level.
What would the problem have been in just giving advice, and accepting it wasn't going to be taken. Plenty of other kids take in similar stuff, without this happening.
That teachers shouldn't have to be involved has been Rhumbatugger's stance practically since she first commented on this issue. Why are you only seeing it now?
That teachers shouldn't have to be involved has been Rhumbatugger's stance practically since she first commented on this issue. Why are you only seeing it now?
Probably the non stop defence of the head. Why did they have to take this one incident to this level?
Well this head went pretty quickly down this route.
If it was for a heat of the moment throwaway comment about a banana and water, it is even worse.
There has been no suggestion of peanuts has there?
I'd suggest his parents went pretty quickly to the papers DP which in turn made the situation with the school far worse, there are other avenues they themselves could have taken.......and they still can but they are not doing instead this
It the bottom of the letter that, for me, seems to say quite a bit more and yes I am only making wild guesses
Persistent breaches of school policies.
During the course of a recent four day exclusion, the pupil’s parents made it publicly clear that their child would not be following the school's policy on healthy eating upon their return and this could have been detrimental to the other pupils.
The home school relationship suffering an irretrievable
breakdown that would have put two pupils in an unacceptable position
I'd suggest his parents went pretty quickly to the papers DP which in turn made the situation with the school far worse, there are other avenues they themselves could have taken.......and they still can but they are not doing instead this
It the bottom of the letter that, for me, seems to say quite a bit more and yes I am only making wild guesses
Persistent breaches of school policies.
During the course of a recent four day exclusion, the pupil’s parents made it publicly clear that their child would not be following the school's policy on healthy eating upon their return and this could have been detrimental to the other pupils.
The home school relationship suffering an irretrievable
breakdown that would have put two pupils in an unacceptable position
Yes, it was all due to the food policy.
The parents said they would not comply with that policy. Where in any guidelines does it say that should result in expulsion?
The head caused that breakdown by suspending him in the first place, rather than applying common sense.
If there was a policy to examine all packed lunches on a daily basis, and it was deemed an expellable offence, we'd have to accept it, but it isn't.
During the course of a recent four day exclusion, the pupil’s parents made it publicly clear that their child would not be following the school's policy on healthy eating
Depending on the school menu his lunch could be healthier than the school dinner.
Mini cheddars aren't the anti christ and we already have an example of a "healthy" menu that includes cake and custard... but you cant have crisps.
just to add the petition says he typically has one of three things.
Those three things combined are still healthier than some of the desserts on the healthy menu.
If it was for a heat of the moment throwaway comment about a banana and water, it is even worse.
Unfortunately I think this could well be the case if you read the original letter the parents released. For heavens sake , whatever happened to common sense here - the dad was annoyed and said something he clearly wasn't going to follow through but all hell broke loose and now 2 kids have no school . Surely the HT should be managing better than that !!
The parents said they would not comply with that policy. Where in any guidelines does it say that should result in expulsion?
The head caused that breakdown by suspending him in the first place, rather than applying common sense.
If there was a policy to examine all packed lunches on a daily basis, and it was deemed an expellable offence, we'd have to accept it, but it isn't.
It was NOT all to do with the 'food policy'. I suspect, as Mrs T has said and I and others have said, that there are OTHER things than this which are a problem with these parents.
And, personally, ANY parent that refuses to put an apple in the lunch rather than banned food, persistently refuses to cooperate with the school, is very likely INDEED to be generally difficult.
These parents, as well, are prepared to TRASH the school in the press and use their kids to 'get their own way'.
I am not 'pro head' as you WANT to believe, I'm sure this could have been handled better.
I am ANTI - idiots like this parent, who should HOMESCHOOL their kids if they don't like school and the rules and can't act in any sort of decent and sensible way.
And, personally, ANY parent that refuses to put an apple in the lunch rather than banned food, persistently refuses to cooperate with the school, is very likely INDEED to be generally difficult.
They did give him fruit. Potentially the school could have given him cake and custard instead of mini cheddars and a banana.
Comments
If the HT is going for an expulsion I can only guess it'll be on the grounds of the behaviour of the parents rather than just breaking this policy. I can't see that he'd get it through otherwise. I do vaguely remember when I was at primary school one boy was removed because his father had threatened the Head.
Even so in those instances, parents can be banned from entering school grounds/premises etc. Not a great solution as teachers/parents do need to communicate with each other, but a solution rather than an expulsion.
Then again if a parent is like that towards the staff, then the best solution is for that parent to seek an alternative school for their child.
Quite. With primary schools it is a bit easier to keep them out of the buildings as they're generally locked down like Fort Knox but secondary it is a different matter.
Our rule as such has always been 'if you don't like our policies then please take your child elsewhere'. We can afford to do this as an over subscribed secondary with four alternatives in the area. The only time we've had an issue was when one mother removed her child because we wanted to test him for ASD. The child in question was VERY clearly on the spectrum but she didn't want him tested. Also meant he didn't get any of the help he would've been entitled to.
And as a result, go against national guidelines on exclusions ie over a disagreement with a parent.
In terms of threats, in my experience, you only have to raise your voice these days in order to be determined threatening and abusive so any time this is raised as a reason, I treat it with a pinch of salt (but not too much, otherwise its against healthy eating
It certainly is. And staff shouldn't have to deal with abusive parents. They're not the police or social workers.
As I've said before. I can understand why primary schools try very hard with the 'healthy eating', but I don't think schools should have to implement such. It's a waste of time and it's up to the parents.
And 28% of kids between 2 and 15 are overweight of obese, but that's the parent's issue.
The government are concerned, but they should attach health checks to doctor's surgeries, not schools.
At least a doctor has a 'right' to say 'you are feeding your child crap and it will lead to problems for them'. Not that some parents wont get all stupidly angry about that either mind.
Teachers shouldn't have to be involved. They have enough to deal with.
It is hard to expel a child. I think it should be easier. I also think if a parent is unreasonable and abusive, then the school should be able to expel the child.
Some parents are so keen on responsiblity they should take the consequences of being needlessly and unreasonably difficult and rude.
Perhaps some of them might actually think about their kids and their own behaviour.
The salad sandwich, egg sandwich and ham roll don't seem toooo hard.:D:D:D
I agree dearmrman , I think the whole situation escalated in the meeting between the HT and the boys dad and should never have got to this stage , the HT is paid well to run the school and occasional conflict with parents is to be expected , he has made a total mess of the whole situation.
Regarding the policy of the lunchboxes - someone else mentioned that there were no comments from other parents at the school, I must admit I find that strange . I am surprised that out of almost 300 children only this one set of parents have not been happy . Could it be that a lot of parents may have been unhappy with the change of policy and that may also explain the lack of comments from parents actually SUPPORTING the head .
Its more than likely that the parents and the expelled children have been made an example of. The HT is say 'don't mess with me!' The other parents are probably to scared to speak up.
I remember working with a HT a few years ago who, when any parent ever raised issues or claimed they were unhappy with anything, would brand the parent/s as trouble makers and refer to them as such during parent/teacher meetings. Very unprofessional! Some people just like to be the big fish in their little pond.
Neither do hummus and crackers - but someone has posted that a school has banned hummus (and gucamole) as being too high in fat.
The point is that this policy is going to lead to endless wrangling about what is good food and what isn't. Think of the egg scare, the poultry scare, the butter scare...allcrises which came and went. Are lunch boxes to be subjected to every new panic?
Will vegetarian teachers be banning meat? (Not so far fetched - a teacher at my kids' school preached revolting things to her class and it was only discovered whe children started refusing to eat and becoming extremely distressed) unless they could be vegetarian. This imposing crank views about food is a nonsense. Schools have better things to do with their time and food faddists should be made to go and sit in the corner.
To be fair, I was only rising to Hotgossips challenge. After all, they could only come up with
Anyway, I revised my list to remove any fussy food preparation and most of the baking. But I have added a brown rice pudding that can be made on the hob...and frozen to be used later! 50s Mums never had it so good
Plums can be drizzled with honey and baked perfectly well in the microwave for a couple of minutes. Flapjacks do need some time in the oven, but they are child's play to make and keep well. They are a good way to introduce fruit and seeds into the diet of children who may otherwise have issues eating those foods.
I'm a bit short on snacks, but a smaller size salad to go with a sandwich rather than replace it would work.
Hummus with dry crackers or veggie sticks (scratches out hummus)
Hard-boiled egg with chopped tomato
Bean Salad
Cubes of Edam cheese with pineapple
Chicken guacamole wrap
Tuna and Lemon wrap
Pasta Salad
Noodle Salad
Couscous Salad
Potato and Tuna Salad
Ham Salad mini rolls
Salad sandwich
Egg Mayo and Cress on wholemeal
Ploughman's with apple
Pitta pockets filled with carrot and cheese
Baked plums with custard
Yoghurt with added fruit and granola
Fruit salad
Fruit and seed energy bar
Flapjack
Brown rice pudding with raisins
Smoothies
Apple juice added to water
Yoghurt drink
Oh crap
Yeah, I noticed all the lamb on the school lunch menus posted and realised our kids are still being deprived of beef in schools! And no pork or offal either. Shocking.
Pork in schools may upset some people but who cares if it does up set some people,there is no need not to have it the menu.
Well this head went pretty quickly down this route.
If it was for a heat of the moment throwaway comment about a banana and water, it is even worse.
There has been no suggestion of peanuts has there?
At last, you see it, and they didn't have to get involved to this level.
What would the problem have been in just giving advice, and accepting it wasn't going to be taken. Plenty of other kids take in similar stuff, without this happening.
As long as it is kept separate from other foods and the kitchen has pots and utensils designated for the pork dishes and separate utensils for everything else, its workable. It's how the kitchens of families with both Muslim and non-Muslim members manage.
I took a couple of minutes to randomly google school menus and happy to report beef and pork are still very much on the menu :cool: I guess the one linked to was in an area with a large population of British-Indian Muslims and isn't representative of your average school menu.
That teachers shouldn't have to be involved has been Rhumbatugger's stance practically since she first commented on this issue. Why are you only seeing it now?
Probably the non stop defence of the head. Why did they have to take this one incident to this level?
I'd suggest his parents went pretty quickly to the papers DP which in turn made the situation with the school far worse, there are other avenues they themselves could have taken.......and they still can but they are not doing instead this
It the bottom of the letter that, for me, seems to say quite a bit more and yes I am only making wild guesses
Persistent breaches of school policies.
During the course of a recent four day exclusion, the pupil’s parents made it publicly clear that their child would not be following the school's policy on healthy eating upon their return and this could have been detrimental to the other pupils.
The home school relationship suffering an irretrievable
breakdown that would have put two pupils in an unacceptable position
Yes, it was all due to the food policy.
The parents said they would not comply with that policy. Where in any guidelines does it say that should result in expulsion?
The head caused that breakdown by suspending him in the first place, rather than applying common sense.
If there was a policy to examine all packed lunches on a daily basis, and it was deemed an expellable offence, we'd have to accept it, but it isn't.
Depending on the school menu his lunch could be healthier than the school dinner.
Mini cheddars aren't the anti christ and we already have an example of a "healthy" menu that includes cake and custard... but you cant have crisps.
just to add the petition says he typically has one of three things.
Those three things combined are still healthier than some of the desserts on the healthy menu.
Unfortunately I think this could well be the case if you read the original letter the parents released. For heavens sake , whatever happened to common sense here - the dad was annoyed and said something he clearly wasn't going to follow through but all hell broke loose and now 2 kids have no school . Surely the HT should be managing better than that !!
It was NOT all to do with the 'food policy'. I suspect, as Mrs T has said and I and others have said, that there are OTHER things than this which are a problem with these parents.
And, personally, ANY parent that refuses to put an apple in the lunch rather than banned food, persistently refuses to cooperate with the school, is very likely INDEED to be generally difficult.
These parents, as well, are prepared to TRASH the school in the press and use their kids to 'get their own way'.
I am not 'pro head' as you WANT to believe, I'm sure this could have been handled better.
I am ANTI - idiots like this parent, who should HOMESCHOOL their kids if they don't like school and the rules and can't act in any sort of decent and sensible way.
They did give him fruit. Potentially the school could have given him cake and custard instead of mini cheddars and a banana.