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Chinese maths teachers to turn around maths education in the UK!

ZaphodskiZaphodski Posts: 4,687
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....or is this just a political PR stunt? I wonder if these imported ambassadors of excellence will be exposed to inner city comprehensive mid set year 8 classes or placed in carefully selected classes in flagship school...?

It would be a little embarrassing for the government if after a week they take the first plane back to China complaining that there are too many students that don't want to learn.

They may be in for a culture shock :o
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    David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    Zaphodski wrote: »
    ....or is this just a political PR stunt? I wonder if these imported ambassadors of excellence will be exposed to inner city comprehensive mid set year 8 classes or placed in carefully selected classes in flagship school...?

    It would be a little embarrassing for the government if after a week they take the first plane back to China complaining that there are too many students that don't want to learn.

    They may be in for a culture shock :o

    Why? I would have thought it would have been a reflection on society, rather than the government.
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    dosanjh1dosanjh1 Posts: 8,727
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    Zaphodski wrote: »
    ....or is this just a political PR stunt? I wonder if these imported ambassadors of excellence will be exposed to inner city comprehensive mid set year 8 classes or placed in carefully selected classes in flagship school...?

    It would be a little embarrassing for the government if after a week they take the first plane back to China complaining that there are too many students that don't want to learn.

    They may be in for a culture shock :o

    It would be better for the Chinese teachers to train British teachers, our moronic youth would likely insult them by putting on Chinese accents and doing slitty eye gestures.

    The Chinese get their results with twice the number of students per classroom than we do - amazing stuff.
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    ZaphodskiZaphodski Posts: 4,687
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    Forgot to add the link to the BBC article that has some interesting readers comments!
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    TassiumTassium Posts: 31,639
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    The technical term for this is "There Is An Election Just Around The Corner!"

    Like everything else this government have done, a gimmick.
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    PsychosisPsychosis Posts: 18,591
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    The problem isn't maths teachers. The problem is that the one-size-fits-all approach to lessons means that maths teachers are being forced to teach in a way that isn't appropriate to the subject, because otherwise they'll be judged inadequate or 'requires improvement'. And since that now reflects on our pay, it's even more important for teachers not to teach maths in the best way, unless they want to sacrifice their own quality of life.

    The most effective way of teaching maths is to demonstrate it on the board, get the kids to work through an example, and then give them exercises to work through until they get it. Obviously with appropriate intervention where needed. All this crap about group work, making it into a game, letting kids "discover it for themselves", it's just a time wasting exercise designed to tick boxes. That's the problem.
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    David TeeDavid Tee Posts: 22,833
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    Psychosis wrote: »
    The problem isn't maths teachers. The problem is that the one-size-fits-all approach to lessons means that maths teachers are being forced to teach in a way that isn't appropriate to the subject, because otherwise they'll be judged inadequate or 'requires improvement'. And since that now reflects on our pay, it's even more important for teachers not to teach maths in the best way, unless they want to sacrifice their own quality of life.

    The most effective way of teaching maths is to demonstrate it on the board, get the kids to work through an example, and then give them exercises to work through until they get it. Obviously with appropriate intervention where needed. All this crap about group work, making it into a game, letting kids "discover it for themselves", it's just a time wasting exercise designed to tick boxes. That's the problem.

    Won't all this become even more evident when the Chinese delegation turn up and show how they do it?
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    allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    David Tee wrote: »
    Won't all this become even more evident when the Chinese delegation turn up and show how they do it?

    They'll bring an abacus with them just to show how slow computers are. :D
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    taurus_67taurus_67 Posts: 6,956
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    Zaphodski wrote: »
    ....or is this just a political PR stunt? I wonder if these imported ambassadors of excellence will be exposed to inner city comprehensive mid set year 8 classes or placed in carefully selected classes in flagship school...?

    It would be a little embarrassing for the government if after a week they take the first plane back to China complaining that there are too many students that don't want to learn.

    They may be in for a culture shock :o

    I reckon they'll be shocked at the level of discipline in the average UK classroom and even more shocked at how much the teachers hands are tied when it comes to doing anything about it. Staying in compliance with the European Human Rights Act might be their biggest hurdle lol
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    gummy mummygummy mummy Posts: 26,600
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    So what happened to the maths report set up by Carol Vorderman and her team at the request of Cameron and Gove while the Tories were still in opposition?

    A report which was set up to assess

    1 Where mathematics education currently stands in England,

    2 Where it needs to be in order for us to compete internationally on an economic basis,

    3 What is needed on an individual basis for students to be mathematically literate, and so able to fulfil their potential in future life.


    A report which recommended critically important changes which needed to be made to provide a world-class mathematics education for all young people

    Why hasn't this report made a difference to the maths education of young people in England ?

    http://www.tsm-resources.com/pdf/VordermanMathsReport.pdf
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    gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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    just generally speaking - if our teechers are so effing good, that for year after year we have seen ever-rising "success" for the students, as evidenced by growing numbers of GCSE passes, etc etc - then why do we seem to need more help?

    Or is there one group of students that is flying high, and another that can't cut the mustard. I think we know what the truth is. For decades standards have in truth been slipping, and we are in general turning out a rather poorly educated "cohort" (that's a buzzword, is it not?) of students.

    It all starts with thinking in terms of "learning", instead of in terms of "teaching". Instead of facilitating the "learning" - we should exert a bit more discipline about what students actually get "taught"

    #baraccobarner, anyone.


    (there's more than a grain of truth in the aphorism "those that can, do. those that can't, teach")
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    stud u likestud u like Posts: 42,100
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    I have seen videos of the chinese pupils being caned on the hand.
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    gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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    I have seen videos of the chinese pupils being caned on the hand.

    whereas in England the teacher gets suspended for telling norty kids to be quiet!

    Diddums: "The teacher hurt my mouf wiv sticky-back plastic, and I couldn't breathe"
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    Speak-SoftlySpeak-Softly Posts: 24,737
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    Psychosis wrote: »
    The problem isn't maths teachers. The problem is that the one-size-fits-all approach to lessons means that maths teachers are being forced to teach in a way that isn't appropriate to the subject, because otherwise they'll be judged inadequate or 'requires improvement'. And since that now reflects on our pay, it's even more important for teachers not to teach maths in the best way, unless they want to sacrifice their own quality of life.

    The most effective way of teaching maths is to demonstrate it on the board, get the kids to work through an example, and then give them exercises to work through until they get it. Obviously with appropriate intervention where needed. All this crap about group work, making it into a game, letting kids "discover it for themselves", it's just a time wasting exercise designed to tick boxes. That's the problem.

    You pinpoint the problem well.

    What's been noticeable with all my children is because so much time is wasted making maths understandable to the least able, adopting every latest theory going, pretending 'engagement' and 'relevance' is more important than practice, overall all four have never had the sheer amount of practice we had when at school.

    Problem solving rather than doing lists of 'sums' means that instead of doing a list of 10/20 calculations for homework, it's figure out what needs doing and then only a couple of sums.

    My youngest wasted a year of maths practice because of the obsession with 'number lines' when he was quite capable of doing straightforward calculations which it didn't even take me that long to teach him.

    That's a year of not doing endless 'borrow 1 and pay it back', 'carry the 10', for addition/subtraction as practice, for example.
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    gemma-the-huskygemma-the-husky Posts: 18,116
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    teechers can't teech spelling and reeding and riting either, can they?

    they're good at striking, and having study days though.
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    solenoidsolenoid Posts: 15,495
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    Sadly it's the British disease: teachers find all the excuses under the sun not to teach to the highest standards. It isn't good for future generations and therefore it isn't good for the British economy.
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    gummy mummygummy mummy Posts: 26,600
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    so what about the 'unqualified' people who teach maths in academies.

    How do they manage to teach their pupils to the required standard ?
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    allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    so what about the 'unqualified' people who teach maths in academies.

    How do they manage to teach their pupils to the required standard ?

    It may be because whilst they're not "qualified", they're pretty good at maths and very good at getting the best out of kids.
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    allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    I have seen videos of the chinese pupils being caned on the hand.

    Oooer, I was caned on the hand and on the arse, sometimes for as little as messy work.
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    gummy mummygummy mummy Posts: 26,600
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    allaorta wrote: »
    It may be because whilst they're not "qualified", they're pretty good at maths and very good at getting the best out of kids.

    While being able to get the 'best out of kids', is itself an admirable qualification, can it be considered good enough without excellent teaching as well ?


    If you look at advertisements for academies most of them say they 'strive for excellence in all subjects', So how would just being 'pretty good' at maths or any other subject achieve this ?


    Surely teachers need to be excellent at their subject if an academy is to achieve excellence.
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    allaortaallaorta Posts: 19,050
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    While being able to get the 'best out of kids', is itself an admirable qualification, can it be considered good enough without excellent teaching as well ?


    If you look at advertisements for academies most of them say they 'strive for excellence in all subjects', So how would just being 'pretty good' at maths or any other subject achieve this ?


    Surely teachers need to be excellent at their subject if an academy is to achieve excellence.

    I'd qualify "pretty good" as having a good working knowledge in terms of both theory and practical aspects. Where the excellence comes in is in imparting knowledge to the pupil. Too many teachers are lacking in all departments and no doubt there'll be failures in the academy system but my understanding is that it may well be easier to get rid of them than in conventional schools.
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    ZaphodskiZaphodski Posts: 4,687
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    taurus_67 wrote: »
    I reckon they'll be shocked at the level of discipline in the average UK classroom and even more shocked at how much the teachers hands are tied when it comes to doing anything about it. Staying in compliance with the European Human Rights Act might be their biggest hurdle lol

    One of the comprehensive schools that I trained in just happened to have a visit by a number of teachers from a school in India. To say that the Indian teachers were shocked by the lack of motivation and respect shown by a significant number of students would be an understatement.

    In some parts of the world students will crawl miles over broken class for an education because the alternative isn't very attractive. In the UK, for some, the motivation to learn is just not there as the alternative (benefits...) is not a cause for concern!
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    MagnamundianMagnamundian Posts: 2,359
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    You pinpoint the problem well.

    What's been noticeable with all my children is because so much time is wasted making maths understandable to the least able, adopting every latest theory going, pretending 'engagement' and 'relevance' is more important than practice, overall all four have never had the sheer amount of practice we had when at school.

    Problem solving rather than doing lists of 'sums' means that instead of doing a list of 10/20 calculations for homework, it's figure out what needs doing and then only a couple of sums.

    My youngest wasted a year of maths practice because of the obsession with 'number lines' when he was quite capable of doing straightforward calculations which it didn't even take me that long to teach him.

    That's a year of not doing endless 'borrow 1 and pay it back', 'carry the 10', for addition/subtraction as practice, for example.

    This is precisely the problem. Lessons need to be modular, kids need to move at their own speed. This should be the case for all subjects. The brightest will pass subjects they are good at early and can use remaining time to work on subjects they struggle with or invest the time in something else (a bright IT pupil might want to take an electronics course etc).

    Those who struggle across the board will spend the whole time working on the basic subjects needed for modern life.
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    gummy mummygummy mummy Posts: 26,600
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    Zaphodski wrote: »
    One of the comprehensive schools that I trained in just happened to have a visit by a number of teachers from a school in India. To say that the Indian teachers were shocked by the lack of motivation and respect shown by a significant number of students would be an understatement.

    In some parts of the world students will crawl miles over broken class for an education because the alternative isn't very attractive. In the UK, for some, the motivation to learn is just not there as the alternative (benefits...) is not a cause for concern!

    Benefits are not much of an incentive for young people in the UK if they can't claim them until they are 18.
    So I don't think the motivation isn't there because of benefits I think it's because they have become resigned to the fact that there will be no jobs for them when they leave school
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    Biffo the BearBiffo the Bear Posts: 25,859
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    I sometimes wonder whether the problem is an indirect one e.g. a mix of poor careers planning not actually letting the pupils gauge what they need to really try their best in and also the fundamental flaw in British society, the cursed Protestant work ethic, that deems it more important to produce base-line ability drone workers than actually tailoring education to build on the strengths of individual children.
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    ZaphodskiZaphodski Posts: 4,687
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    Benefits are not much of an incentive for young people in the UK if they can't claim them until they are 18.
    So I don't think the motivation isn't there because of benefits I think it's because they have become resigned to the fact that there will be no jobs for them when they leave school

    The job situation is also party to blame however I have encountered many students who are almost boastful about what they can afford / achieve on benefits. Some girls will even tell you about the pregnancy route to a flat taken by a friend, relative (Mum :o)

    The best way to combat this negativity is a find an ambassador ex student who is willing to stand in front of a class for 5 minutes and tell the students that they really need to get their qualifications. Old head on young shoulders problem...
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