I would have to agree I hope they have not bought her back for the sake of it and it is something integral to the storyline.
obviously I cannot comment until I have seen the series finale but as I've said many times I do have reservations regarding her return, the motivation behind it and whether it is RTD chucking everything and the kitchen sink at us, which is normally at the expense of the story, or indeed lack of one. the only time he pulled it off imho was in Bad Wolf and Parting of the Ways.
I actually thought season 2 was the strongest and my favourite finale.
Yeah I cried so much in Doomsday, again because I didn't know what was coming, It was a complete surprise to me, (well I knew Billie was leaving but that was all)
nothing against Billie Piper or her acting abilities but I wasn't too keen on how the character was developed or scripted during the second series compared to the first. am intrigued as to the how/why she is returning but I also have reservations given that RTD said after the series 2 finale that she was trapped in the other universe..forever. wasn't too keen on the ending on the beach which was over dramatised and overly sentimental so I am hoping that we draw a firm line under her next appearance/departure. not sure I want to see the revolving door to to the alt universe swing open every few series with Rose popping up..the series has to move forward.
Agreed - I'm slightly confused by the show's seeming obsession with Rose - I thought she was alright, but no goddess of a companion. I'm also hoping that her return is all part of a well-planned and well-realised narrative, and not just something gimmicky.
I do disagree with your view on the beach scene. I thought it was very effective.
Last night, our European Head Of Sales (who's as tough as old boots) admitted that she watched Doctor Who, which was a massive source of surprise for me. As we had the obligatory 'fave episode' discussion, she cited the 'Doomsday' beach scene as the only thing on TV that has made her cry in the last ten years, and the sole reason that got her into the show in the first place.
Sci-fi fans may scoff at the sentimental stuff, but it's important to remember that, for the casual viewer, it's a huge draw when it's well done, and a source of appeal to those who habitually wouldn't even consider watching anything that had the 'sci-fi tag' attached to it.
Agreed - I'm slightly confused by the show's seeming obsession with Rose - I thought she was alright, but no goddess of a companion. I'm also hoping that her return is all part of a well-planned and well-realised narrative, and not just something gimmicky.
I do disagree with your view on the beach scene. I thought it was very effective.
Last night, our European Head Of Sales (who's as tough as old boots) admitted that she watched Doctor Who, which was a massive source of surprise for me. As we had the obligatory 'fave episode' discussion, she cited the 'Doomsday' beach scene as the only thing on TV that has made her cry in the last ten years, and the sole reason that got her into the show in the first place.
Sci-fi fans may scoff at the sentimental stuff, but it's important to remember that, for the casual viewer, it's a huge draw when it's well done, and a source of appeal to those who habitually wouldn't even consider watching anything that had the 'sci-fi tag' attached to it.
Regards,
Cypher
Perhaps I am just a hard faced b*tch;):D but it takes more than two people gushing over each other to press those emotional buttons for me.
Interestingly, series 3 seems to be more popular than series 2, and Rose wasn't in series 3. I like Rose, Martha and Donna. I don't like it when people get scathing about their acting, its DW for goodness sake. I guess my main problem with Rose is the way her relationship with the Doctor was treated in a way which, for old series fans like me, seemed to diminish the Doctor's relationship with previous companions. And then they kept banging o nabout her in series 3 so Martha never really had a fighting chance
As a matter of interest, have there been any Who scenes (old or new) that have pushed the right emo-buttons with you?
Regards,
Cypher
when The Doctor read Reinette's letter at the end of GitF. in Family of Blood when The Doctor is torn between his human life and his responsibilities of returning to being a Time Lord was very well scripted, in particular the scene with Joan. PotW..yes a RTD script..with Rose telling Jackie about going back in time to meet Pete. Sally reading the letter from Kathy. all understated, beautifully acted/directed and not trying to wring every last emotion out of each word, look and tear. what would've had more impact for me had the final scene between The Doctor and Rose was the one were they were both on each side of the wall in the different universes. that was quite a powerful image and signified their separation even deeper. it would have made her want to try and contact The Doctor even more and we wouldn'thave heard the immortal lines about not seeing him ever again once the universe was sealed.
just what worked for me and i guess what does for me won't for all and vice versa..
Season 3 did have some of the best episodes out of all of them.
I would have to say the worst for me so far has been season 1.
no season 1 had some dead good episodes Dalek, the unquiet dead and the doctor dances/lonely child were all scary. the only bad points IMO were the Slitheen.
no season 1 had some dead good episodes Dalek, the unquiet dead and the doctor dances/lonely child were all scary. the only bad points IMO were the Slitheen.
when The Doctor read Reinette's letter at the end of GitF.
Y'know, I've watched and re-watched that episode time and time again trying to find the emotional resonance, but I keep coming away with nothing. I found it a bit cheesy, and I'm in no way against emo-scenes.
in Family of Blood when The Doctor is torn between his human life and his responsibilities of returning to being a Time Lord was very well scripted, in particular the scene with Joan.
Indeed, fantastic scripting on the part of Cornell. For me, the choke moment came at the end as veteran Tim Latimer saw Martha and the Doctor attending his remembrance day ceremony.
PotW..yes a RTD script..with Rose telling Jackie about going back in time to meet Pete.
The POTW scene that really worked for me was the Doctor hologram turning to face Rose - I thought that was pure genius - so simple, and so effective. Gave me goosebumps all over!
Sally reading the letter from Kathy. all understated, beautifully acted/directed and not trying to wring every last emotion out of each word, look and tear.
Mildly touching, I guess, but I didn't find it memorable. I remember Blink more for its creepy atmosphere, and witty one-liners.
what would've had more impact for me had the final scene between The Doctor and Rose was the one were they were both on each side of the wall in the different universes. that was quite a powerful image and signified their separation even deeper.
We did get that bit, but it wasn't the final scene.
I agree it was very effective, and great direction on the part of Graham Harper.
I guess your view on the beach scene would influence the overall appreciation of the episode, as everything was building up to that right from the opening few seconds of 'Army Of Ghosts'.
just what worked for me and i guess what does for me won't for all and vice versa..
Heh, very true - glad to see that you're not entirely an exquisite emotional vacumn, BG!
It's funny how Who can do the emotional stuff so well - I watch tonnes of TV, but barely anything gives me a lump in my throat in the way that Who has in the past. The only other sci-fi show I can think of that even came close was ST:TNG's 'The Offspring'.
It's a real tribute to the writers that they can even begin to get that level of emotional response out of their audience.
I think I slightly dislike (not hate!) Rose because I feel that RTD thinks she's more important than the Doctor, and it's not true!
And she's a bit chavvy for my taste.
I think she did a good job for a while though, and was more impressed than I thought I'd be when I rewatched her episodes recently. I was almost as annoyed by her casting pre-broadcast as I was by Catherine Tate (and I'm converted to both of them now).
Interestingly, series 3 seems to be more popular than series 2, and Rose wasn't in series 3. I like Rose, Martha and Donna. I don't like it when people get scathing about their acting, its DW for goodness sake. I guess my main problem with Rose is the way her relationship with the Doctor was treated in a way which, for old series fans like me, seemed to diminish the Doctor's relationship with previous companions. And then they kept banging o nabout her in series 3 so Martha never really had a fighting chance
This is my view as well. I had no problem with BP or her character, in fact i think we all owe BP & CE a huge thank you for bringing back DW in such a great way.
I also don't have an issue with companions falling for the doctor. In fact given his abilities and persona, it would be a surprise if they didn't find themselves in awe of him.
However, like Listentome, the constant referencing to her throughout season 3 really bugged me. And i have to say, i ultimately feel that this was the reason that i never really gelled with Martha as a companion. Every time she tried to take a step forward, a comparison to Rose popped up and shot her down.
Rose was great, but when she left RTD should have moved on.
Y'know, I've watched and re-watched that episode time and time again trying to find the emotional resonance, but I keep coming away with nothing. I found it a bit cheesy, and I'm in no way against emo-scenes.
Indeed, fantastic scripting on the part of Cornell. For me, the choke moment came at the end as veteran Tim Latimer saw Martha and the Doctor attending his remembrance day ceremony.
The POTW scene that really worked for me was the Doctor hologram turning to face Rose - I thought that was pure genius - so simple, and so effective. Gave me goosebumps all over!
Mildly touching, I guess, but I didn't find it memorable. I remember Blink more for its creepy atmosphere, and witty one-liners.
We did get that bit, but it wasn't the final scene.
I agree it was very effective, and great direction on the part of Graham Harper.
I guess your view on the beach scene would influence the overall appreciation of the episode, as everything was building up to that right from the opening few seconds of 'Army Of Ghosts'.
Heh, very true - glad to see that you're not entirely an exquisite emotional vacumn, BG!
It's funny how Who can do the emotional stuff so well - I watch tonnes of TV, but barely anything gives me a lump in my throat in the way that Who has in the past. The only other sci-fi show I can think of that even came close was ST:TNG's 'The Offspring'.
It's a real tribute to the writers that they can even begin to get that level of emotional response out of their audience.
Regards,
Cypher
that scene at the end of Family of Blood stood out too I agree.
think what I was trying to say was had that been the final scene between The Doctor and Rose in Doomsday..each of them on the other side of wall but in different universes...that would've had more impact for me. their separation and no chance of saying a proper goodbye which would add to why Rose was so keen to find and make contact with The Doctor even more in this series.
think what I was trying to say was had that been the final scene between The Doctor and Rose in Doomsday..each of them on the other side of wall but in different universes...that would've had more impact for me. their separation and no chance of saying a proper goodbye
That may have been considered.
Maybe RTD thought it would be just too fleeting to do the departure justice. 'The Doctor's Daughter' this week suffered from that - it was all too quick, too wham, bam!
Maybe RTD thought it would be just too fleeting to do the departure justice. 'The Doctor's Daughter' this week suffered from that - it was all too quick, too wham, bam!
Good point - maybe her return wasn't planned after all!
Tho', even with the beach scene, I still suspect her eventual re-unite with the Doctor will be an emotional moment.
Regards,
Cypher
are you hoping that they do draw a firm line under this next reappearance or are you happy to see Rose dip in and out of the series?
I am definitely not a Rose hater and she is still my favourite out of the 3 'New Who' companions - I can't honestly comprehend how anyone can say she can't act
I like all 3 companions and think they have all been/are excellent in the role. Even though I loved Rose and really didn't want her to go I took to Martha very early on and think all the criticism she gets on here to be incredibly unjustified.
I've surprised myself by liking Donna as well, I can't stand Catherine Tate's comedy and I loathed (and still do) with an intense passion The Runaway Bride, but CT has proved me wrong this season and has been very good.
I would still say Rose is my favourite but Martha & Donna aren't too far behind in joint second place.
I loved Rose and i love donna, but i was never keen on martha from the beginning (all though i think her character was much better in the last 3 eps especially the dr's daughter') I think billie piper is a very good actress and she played the character of rose really well, what i dont get is why her and the dr's relationship diminished previous relationships with his companion, why cant the dr fall in love with someone??i didnt think it was a rule. I think the main reason people dislike rose is because when martha was the companion nearly every episode had a mention of rose and the fact there was a new companion was overshadowed. The writers messed up in that series regarding marthas character had they given us the martha from the past few eps rather than another rose - minus the mutual feelings - then i think the last series would have been much better, it was hard enough freema was taking over from one of the most popular companions but to then be given those scripts was completly unfair on her, she has proved recently she is just as good an actress as billie is.
I can't help but notice the massive anti-Rose feeling on this Site? But I a not against people having there own opinions but loads of people say she was smug?
But this site does seem to have a high number of haters, :eek:
So whats this smugness?! And that they LIke Season 1 Rose more to season 2
Comments
obviously I cannot comment until I have seen the series finale but as I've said many times I do have reservations regarding her return, the motivation behind it and whether it is RTD chucking everything and the kitchen sink at us, which is normally at the expense of the story, or indeed lack of one. the only time he pulled it off imho was in Bad Wolf and Parting of the Ways.
Yeah I cried so much in Doomsday, again because I didn't know what was coming, It was a complete surprise to me, (well I knew Billie was leaving but that was all)
Agreed - I'm slightly confused by the show's seeming obsession with Rose - I thought she was alright, but no goddess of a companion. I'm also hoping that her return is all part of a well-planned and well-realised narrative, and not just something gimmicky.
I do disagree with your view on the beach scene. I thought it was very effective.
Last night, our European Head Of Sales (who's as tough as old boots) admitted that she watched Doctor Who, which was a massive source of surprise for me. As we had the obligatory 'fave episode' discussion, she cited the 'Doomsday' beach scene as the only thing on TV that has made her cry in the last ten years, and the sole reason that got her into the show in the first place.
Sci-fi fans may scoff at the sentimental stuff, but it's important to remember that, for the casual viewer, it's a huge draw when it's well done, and a source of appeal to those who habitually wouldn't even consider watching anything that had the 'sci-fi tag' attached to it.
Regards,
Cypher
Perhaps I am just a hard faced b*tch;):D but it takes more than two people gushing over each other to press those emotional buttons for me.
As a matter of interest, have there been any Who scenes (old or new) that have pushed the right emo-buttons with you?
Regards,
Cypher
Fess up you must have shed a tear over the girl in the fireplace?
Season 3 did have some of the best episodes out of all of them.
I would have to say the worst for me so far has been season 1.
when The Doctor read Reinette's letter at the end of GitF. in Family of Blood when The Doctor is torn between his human life and his responsibilities of returning to being a Time Lord was very well scripted, in particular the scene with Joan. PotW..yes a RTD script..with Rose telling Jackie about going back in time to meet Pete. Sally reading the letter from Kathy. all understated, beautifully acted/directed and not trying to wring every last emotion out of each word, look and tear. what would've had more impact for me had the final scene between The Doctor and Rose was the one were they were both on each side of the wall in the different universes. that was quite a powerful image and signified their separation even deeper. it would have made her want to try and contact The Doctor even more and we wouldn'thave heard the immortal lines about not seeing him ever again once the universe was sealed.
just what worked for me and i guess what does for me won't for all and vice versa..
no season 1 had some dead good episodes Dalek, the unquiet dead and the doctor dances/lonely child were all scary. the only bad points IMO were the Slitheen.
I never rated CE as a decent Dr though.
Y'know, I've watched and re-watched that episode time and time again trying to find the emotional resonance, but I keep coming away with nothing. I found it a bit cheesy, and I'm in no way against emo-scenes.
Indeed, fantastic scripting on the part of Cornell. For me, the choke moment came at the end as veteran Tim Latimer saw Martha and the Doctor attending his remembrance day ceremony.
The POTW scene that really worked for me was the Doctor hologram turning to face Rose - I thought that was pure genius - so simple, and so effective. Gave me goosebumps all over!
Mildly touching, I guess, but I didn't find it memorable. I remember Blink more for its creepy atmosphere, and witty one-liners.
We did get that bit, but it wasn't the final scene.
I agree it was very effective, and great direction on the part of Graham Harper.
I guess your view on the beach scene would influence the overall appreciation of the episode, as everything was building up to that right from the opening few seconds of 'Army Of Ghosts'.
Heh, very true - glad to see that you're not entirely an exquisite emotional vacumn, BG!
It's funny how Who can do the emotional stuff so well - I watch tonnes of TV, but barely anything gives me a lump in my throat in the way that Who has in the past. The only other sci-fi show I can think of that even came close was ST:TNG's 'The Offspring'.
It's a real tribute to the writers that they can even begin to get that level of emotional response out of their audience.
Regards,
Cypher
And she's a bit chavvy for my taste.
I think she did a good job for a while though, and was more impressed than I thought I'd be when I rewatched her episodes recently. I was almost as annoyed by her casting pre-broadcast as I was by Catherine Tate (and I'm converted to both of them now).
This is my view as well. I had no problem with BP or her character, in fact i think we all owe BP & CE a huge thank you for bringing back DW in such a great way.
I also don't have an issue with companions falling for the doctor. In fact given his abilities and persona, it would be a surprise if they didn't find themselves in awe of him.
However, like Listentome, the constant referencing to her throughout season 3 really bugged me. And i have to say, i ultimately feel that this was the reason that i never really gelled with Martha as a companion. Every time she tried to take a step forward, a comparison to Rose popped up and shot her down.
Rose was great, but when she left RTD should have moved on.
just my opinion.
:cool:
that scene at the end of Family of Blood stood out too I agree.
think what I was trying to say was had that been the final scene between The Doctor and Rose in Doomsday..each of them on the other side of wall but in different universes...that would've had more impact for me. their separation and no chance of saying a proper goodbye which would add to why Rose was so keen to find and make contact with The Doctor even more in this series.
That may have been considered.
Maybe RTD thought it would be just too fleeting to do the departure justice. 'The Doctor's Daughter' this week suffered from that - it was all too quick, too wham, bam!
Good point - maybe her return wasn't planned after all!
Tho', even with the beach scene, I still suspect her eventual re-unite with the Doctor will be an emotional moment.
Regards,
Cypher
Erm do you know what acting is
You may not be a fan, but Billie can certainly act
are you hoping that they do draw a firm line under this next reappearance or are you happy to see Rose dip in and out of the series?
I like all 3 companions and think they have all been/are excellent in the role. Even though I loved Rose and really didn't want her to go I took to Martha very early on and think all the criticism she gets on here to be incredibly unjustified.
I've surprised myself by liking Donna as well, I can't stand Catherine Tate's comedy and I loathed (and still do) with an intense passion The Runaway Bride, but CT has proved me wrong this season and has been very good.
I would still say Rose is my favourite but Martha & Donna aren't too far behind in joint second place.
I'd rather have seen the line drawn at 'Doomsday', truth be told.
But, let's see what's in store...
Regards,
Cypher
think that might go to another companion. no flowers necessary:D
I don't hate her.
I dont, I thought she was quite good, not that id want her back as a companion, too much, kissy kissy with DT is not on