And how do you decide that, if 20 deposits are handed in at the same time? Hell, what about a scenario when two kids hand over their forms, etc. to the teacher at the same time with just one place remaining?
...if they are running trips it should for fair for all the group to be able to go...if schools can't do this, then they should not be organising trips.
So you are basically saying it would be better to deny all children the opportunity rather than just denying a handful?
You see, with a residential trip, a school is unlikely to be able to accommodate an entire year group. So the only alternative to letting some down is not running the trip at all. I imagine the majority of parents wouldn't be too supportive of you at that point if you were Head.
And how do you decide that, if 20 deposits are handed in at the same time? Hell, what about a scenario when two kids hand over their forms, etc. to the teacher at the same time with just one place remaining?
Schools are moving to online payment systems. Our trips are approved when a parent submits their payment online. It has a time stamp and an automatic cut-off.
Schools are moving to online payment systems. Our trips are approved when a parent submits their payment online. It has a time stamp and an automatic cut-off.
This is the best way then if it comes down to one got in just 1 second before they get the place.
This happened at my school but it was a free trip to Wales , only 30 students could go and about 60 students wanted to go so we was picked out of a hat . I was picked but my best friend was not but I still managed to have a great time .
And how do you decide that, if 20 deposits are handed in at the same time? Hell, what about a scenario when two kids hand over their forms, etc. to the teacher at the same time with just one place remaining?
Then it goes to who pays in full first if it must.
Which I think it should really anyway as some may not end up paying.
If they all happen to pay the same day at exactly the same moment in time then they may have to pick and choose.
Maybe any kid who gets into trouble forfits their place may help most stay good.
No the school made the wrong decision, they should have had a trip that could accommodate the whole group, or alternatively the places go to those that paid first, and once they had the numbers not accept any more deposits.
Well said. Most of the people carping in the DM article would feel very differently were it their child, no matter how they would try to deny it.
I think it was the only fair way to do it as long as they genuinely did pull names out of a hat. Children have to learn that life isn't fair and they can't have everything they want.
This happened at my school but it was a free trip to Wales , only 30 students could go and about 60 students wanted to go so we was picked out of a hat . I was picked but my best friend was not but I still managed to have a great time .
My son's school used to do this as well, even for paid trips. The kids who didn't get chosen were on the 'definite' list for the next trip.
Was never a problem for us as my son never wanted to go on the trips anyway...
The phrase "I hope you brought enough for everybody comes to mind".
It's a bit harsh on these kids; to have parents who can afford and are willing to pay for a school trip like that, only to be excluded in such a manner. But looking at the letter, everybody seems to have been informed of the limited number of places and procedure should it be over-booked.
Them's the breaks though - they'll get over it. But I understand how it can be a bit of a cruel blow for the kids involved.
My secondary school did a an outdoor activities program, where you got to choose one of three; skiing, orienteering or sailing. I chose skiing and by all accounts, picked it up pretty quick on the dry slope. But my parents wouldn't even fork out for the end of term day trip to the dry ski slope in Edinburgh, let alone the week long skiing holiday to France planned for the skiing group (10 of us all told). We wouldn't have been able to afford it anyhow, even if my parents were inclined to let me go.
And that was ok. No big deal. I just could have done without being roped into helping prep the ski equipment the school was taking on the trip for the kids though. That felt like a bit of a bit of a slap in the face.
I think they should have organised something for all children, not for all minus five.
I don't think they specifically organised something for all but five children. They didn't know how many were interested initially. It was only when the deposits came in that they knew how many would have to miss out. If the school is 2 form entry they would have to organise a residential trip for 60 to guarantee nobody would miss out. This would a) be virtually impossible in a lot of schools and b) be significantly more expensive for each parent. Either way, not a great outcome.
This has made me think about getting the parents to pay and the way it's done.
When I was at school if any money was owed the teachers were always telling the kids to bring it in and when they didn't they kept going on and on at the kid even ranting and raving at them going really OTT sometimes if the parents won't or can't give the money what do you expect the kid to do.
But what I noticed they would rant and rave at the kid/s but when their parents came to pick them up and the teacher saw them they never said a word about it to them.
Then it goes to who pays in full first if it must.
Which I think it should really anyway as some may not end up paying.
If they all happen to pay the same day at exactly the same moment in time then they may have to pick and choose.
Maybe any kid who gets into trouble forfits their place may help most stay good.
Yep, so as I stated, first-come-first-serve doesn't really work..........with the exception of online systems as alluded to by another FM......but then you'll no doubt hear screams of injustice from those who, for whatever reason may be without web access for a bit (!!!!).
And how do you decide that, if 20 deposits are handed in at the same time? Hell, what about a scenario when two kids hand over their forms, etc. to the teacher at the same time with just one place remaining?
It shouldn't be given to the teacher...payments should be made via reception by the parents, who should queue up to pay the deposit/money.
To save further confusion, if the school has more than one on reception, they allocate the job to one person.
Reception would have the number of places available and as a parent pays they mark one of the places gone.
Should it be who paid the deposit first or who paid in full.
As it is fair someone who paid in full ASAP missed out and someone who messed them around and only paid up a day or so before they went.
Deposit....but you give a strict balance due date, if the parent hasn't paid the balance by that date, you throw the place open to another child. Like booking a normal holiday booking in advance, if the balance isn't paid on the date it's due, your holiday gets cancelled with loss of deposit.
I would also make it that deposits are non refundable.
It shouldn't be given to the teacher...payments should be made via reception by the parents, who should queue up to pay the deposit/money.
To save further confusion, if the school has more than one on reception, they allocate the job to one person.
Reception would have the number of places available and as a parent pays they mark one of the places gone.
First come first serve it's not rocket science.
And for the schools that have buses shipping kids in? Or the schools that offer breakfast clubs for the kids whose parents need to work by the time school opens? Maybe it IS rocket science???
And even if your scenario was realistically achievable, how will that stop poor Johnny crying 'cos his Mum missed the cut?
And for the schools that have buses shipping kids in? Or the schools that offer breakfast clubs for the kids whose parents need to work by the time school opens? Maybe it IS rocket science???
And even if your scenario was realistically achievable, how will that stop poor Johnny crying 'cos his Mum missed the cut?
And given the bulling in schools I wouldn't trust gripper not to nick Johnnys money.
And for the schools that have buses shipping kids in? Or the schools that offer breakfast clubs for the kids whose parents need to work by the time school opens? Maybe it IS rocket science???
And even if your scenario was realistically achievable, how will that stop poor Johnny crying 'cos his Mum missed the cut?
It wouldn't stop a child crying, but it's more fair than pulling a name out of a hat, besides how do they pull the names out of hat, in class or behind closed doors.
As for breakfast clubs, buses etc...you give notice that deposits will be open to be taken from 2-3 weeks time, which should give parents the time to make alternative arrangements, be it a friend, themselves or a relative that goes in and pays the money.
You would also have to make it that so that a person who pays, is only paying for one child, unless of course they are siblings.
It wouldn't stop a child crying, but it's more fair than pulling a name out of a hat, besides how do they pull the names out of hat, in class or behind closed doors.
As for breakfast clubs, buses etc...you give notice that deposits will be open to be taken from 2-3 weeks time, which should give parents the time to make alternative arrangements, be it a friend, themselves or a relative that goes in and pays the money.
You would also have to make it that so that a person who pays, is only paying for one child, unless of course they are siblings.
In the real-world, it just doesn't work like that.....because at the end of the day, they'll just send their kid off to school with a consent form and a cheque.....that's pretty much how it's gone on for years!
What about siblings what if one got their name picked out of the hat so one got to go and one didn't that wouldn't be nice or fair.
Oh diddums for them - why is this all of a sudden a problem? Kids missing out on things has been going on for a very long time. Are we really that mamby-pamby these days??
Oh diddums for them - why is this all of a sudden a problem? Kids missing out on things has been going on for a very long time. Are we really that mamby-pamby these days??
When I went all trips were planned in mind that the whole year said yes.
Often I was the only one who didn't go and that was because I never wanted to go as I got travel sick only went on one was sick on the way there felt sick all day and was sick on the way back (The Doctor said he had new tablets what would work they didn't)
We did have some week long tripd again they had enough space for the whole group if we all wanted.
Comments
And how do you decide that, if 20 deposits are handed in at the same time? Hell, what about a scenario when two kids hand over their forms, etc. to the teacher at the same time with just one place remaining?
So you are basically saying it would be better to deny all children the opportunity rather than just denying a handful?
You see, with a residential trip, a school is unlikely to be able to accommodate an entire year group. So the only alternative to letting some down is not running the trip at all. I imagine the majority of parents wouldn't be too supportive of you at that point if you were Head.
Schools are moving to online payment systems. Our trips are approved when a parent submits their payment online. It has a time stamp and an automatic cut-off.
This is the best way then if it comes down to one got in just 1 second before they get the place.
Then it goes to who pays in full first if it must.
Which I think it should really anyway as some may not end up paying.
If they all happen to pay the same day at exactly the same moment in time then they may have to pick and choose.
Maybe any kid who gets into trouble forfits their place may help most stay good.
Well said. Most of the people carping in the DM article would feel very differently were it their child, no matter how they would try to deny it.
My son's school used to do this as well, even for paid trips. The kids who didn't get chosen were on the 'definite' list for the next trip.
Was never a problem for us as my son never wanted to go on the trips anyway...
It's a bit harsh on these kids; to have parents who can afford and are willing to pay for a school trip like that, only to be excluded in such a manner. But looking at the letter, everybody seems to have been informed of the limited number of places and procedure should it be over-booked.
Them's the breaks though - they'll get over it. But I understand how it can be a bit of a cruel blow for the kids involved.
My secondary school did a an outdoor activities program, where you got to choose one of three; skiing, orienteering or sailing. I chose skiing and by all accounts, picked it up pretty quick on the dry slope. But my parents wouldn't even fork out for the end of term day trip to the dry ski slope in Edinburgh, let alone the week long skiing holiday to France planned for the skiing group (10 of us all told). We wouldn't have been able to afford it anyhow, even if my parents were inclined to let me go.
And that was ok. No big deal. I just could have done without being roped into helping prep the ski equipment the school was taking on the trip for the kids though. That felt like a bit of a bit of a slap in the face.
I don't think they specifically organised something for all but five children. They didn't know how many were interested initially. It was only when the deposits came in that they knew how many would have to miss out. If the school is 2 form entry they would have to organise a residential trip for 60 to guarantee nobody would miss out. This would a) be virtually impossible in a lot of schools and b) be significantly more expensive for each parent. Either way, not a great outcome.
When I was at school if any money was owed the teachers were always telling the kids to bring it in and when they didn't they kept going on and on at the kid even ranting and raving at them going really OTT sometimes if the parents won't or can't give the money what do you expect the kid to do.
But what I noticed they would rant and rave at the kid/s but when their parents came to pick them up and the teacher saw them they never said a word about it to them.
Yep, so as I stated, first-come-first-serve doesn't really work..........with the exception of online systems as alluded to by another FM......but then you'll no doubt hear screams of injustice from those who, for whatever reason may be without web access for a bit (!!!!).
It shouldn't be given to the teacher...payments should be made via reception by the parents, who should queue up to pay the deposit/money.
To save further confusion, if the school has more than one on reception, they allocate the job to one person.
Reception would have the number of places available and as a parent pays they mark one of the places gone.
First come first serve it's not rocket science.
As it is fair someone who paid in full ASAP missed out and someone who messed them around and only paid up a day or so before they went.
Deposit....but you give a strict balance due date, if the parent hasn't paid the balance by that date, you throw the place open to another child. Like booking a normal holiday booking in advance, if the balance isn't paid on the date it's due, your holiday gets cancelled with loss of deposit.
I would also make it that deposits are non refundable.
And for the schools that have buses shipping kids in? Or the schools that offer breakfast clubs for the kids whose parents need to work by the time school opens? Maybe it IS rocket science???
And even if your scenario was realistically achievable, how will that stop poor Johnny crying 'cos his Mum missed the cut?
And given the bulling in schools I wouldn't trust gripper not to nick Johnnys money.
Parents doing is safer.
Ah, what ever happened to the trusty old cheque.....oh no, wait...
Take that, Gripper!
So only kids whos parents have a cheque book can go.
When I was at school though Gripper would have mugged the parents to.
It wouldn't stop a child crying, but it's more fair than pulling a name out of a hat, besides how do they pull the names out of hat, in class or behind closed doors.
As for breakfast clubs, buses etc...you give notice that deposits will be open to be taken from 2-3 weeks time, which should give parents the time to make alternative arrangements, be it a friend, themselves or a relative that goes in and pays the money.
You would also have to make it that so that a person who pays, is only paying for one child, unless of course they are siblings.
What about siblings what if one got their name picked out of the hat so one got to go and one didn't that wouldn't be nice or fair.
In the real-world, it just doesn't work like that.....because at the end of the day, they'll just send their kid off to school with a consent form and a cheque.....that's pretty much how it's gone on for years!
Oh diddums for them - why is this all of a sudden a problem? Kids missing out on things has been going on for a very long time. Are we really that mamby-pamby these days??
When I went all trips were planned in mind that the whole year said yes.
Often I was the only one who didn't go and that was because I never wanted to go as I got travel sick only went on one was sick on the way there felt sick all day and was sick on the way back (The Doctor said he had new tablets what would work they didn't)
We did have some week long tripd again they had enough space for the whole group if we all wanted.