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Short notice / instant train seat reservations : what a TERRIBLE idea....
Justin Aerial
Posts: 5,710 Forum Member
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I found out just the other day that on Cross Country Trains you can use your phone to reserve a seat on a train only 10 minutes before it`s due to depart from the station.
Now, there are many out there who may think what a good idea !
Actually it`s a terrible idea and it`s so completely unfair it bemuses me how XC trains came up with it in the first place.
There are only a certain number of seats on a train.
If it`s not full you don`t need to reserve a seat.
If it is full it`s obviously handy to reserve a seat, but if the train is full that means you`re then kicking someone else out of their seat, and because of the short notice nature of the reservation you may well be kicking someone out of a seat* who was in it before you even "reserved" it ! That is to say you get to jump the queue. Now there are a few groups who I do not necessarily object to jumping the queue (families with kids, frail elderly, pregnant women etc etc), but not, repeat not, people who have a smart phone and know how to use the system.....
What possible reason could anyone think that such a system has any advantages (other than for those with mobile phones who know the system and want to jump the queue) ?
* I wouldn`t move, not even if the guard or train manager told me to, I`d only move if a British Transport policeman told me to.
Now, there are many out there who may think what a good idea !
Actually it`s a terrible idea and it`s so completely unfair it bemuses me how XC trains came up with it in the first place.
There are only a certain number of seats on a train.
If it`s not full you don`t need to reserve a seat.
If it is full it`s obviously handy to reserve a seat, but if the train is full that means you`re then kicking someone else out of their seat, and because of the short notice nature of the reservation you may well be kicking someone out of a seat* who was in it before you even "reserved" it ! That is to say you get to jump the queue. Now there are a few groups who I do not necessarily object to jumping the queue (families with kids, frail elderly, pregnant women etc etc), but not, repeat not, people who have a smart phone and know how to use the system.....
What possible reason could anyone think that such a system has any advantages (other than for those with mobile phones who know the system and want to jump the queue) ?
* I wouldn`t move, not even if the guard or train manager told me to, I`d only move if a British Transport policeman told me to.
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http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/travel-tools/ten-minute-reservations/how-it-works
Sounds like a good thing to me and fairly simple.
"Seats which can be reserved during the train's journey will display the message 'Available, but reservable en-route(origin)to(destination), e.g. 'Available, but reservable en-route Bournemouth to Manchester'. This means that the seat is currently available but may be reserved by other customers during the train's journey. If you buy a ticket with a reservation, or use our Ten minute reservation service, the display will change to reflect your reservation."
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/travel-tools/ten-minute-reservations/how-it-works
Queue jumping? Not really.
And the moral of this tale is that if you don't want to be kicked out of your seat then reserve it. It's not a service reserved only for the few, anyome can reserve their seat it appears. In the example you gave, where someone sits in a seat having not reserved it only to be kicked out when someone who did reserve it turns up, my adcice would be for them to reserve the seat either in advance, or make that the first thing they do when they sit down.
I have on occassion had to travel last minute and being able to reserve a seat this close to time would have been so useful and saved me having to stand for an entire journey.
As I understand it you can use this short notice seat reservation system even if you`ve already got a ticket. In fact this little story is perfectly possible, and illustrates very well how ridiculous it all is :
You go to the station and buy a ticket.
You get on the train, say at Sheffield.
You find there aren`t any empty seats so you then use your phone to reserve a seat (assuming someone else hasn`t beaten you to it) from the next station (say Doncaster).
At Doncaster you go up to whoever is in the seat and say : "Hey up mister you`re in my seat, hop it !"
And anyone who thinks that`s fair doesn`t have the same definition for "fairness" as I do.
Especially since people with anytime tickets generally pay a lot more, to travel the same distance!
But you`re just kicking someone else out of a seat, maybe someone who was actually in front of you in the queue for that seat. How can you justify that ? And saying it`s nothing to do with me that`s just the system is no excuse, I seem to remember there were quite a few Germans saying stuff like that back in the early to mid 1940s......
Whether there`s a sticker on the seat saying is may become reserved or not is irrelevant as to whether it`s fair. It`s also less than useful. I have no objection to people reserving their seats before travel (provided there a reasonable number of unreservable seats on a train and it`s clear exactly between which stations the seat is reserved or not) because that seat has been "there`s" from eth moment they booked it, i.e. they`re in front of me in the queue. Someone who trys (because I wouldn't move) to reserve a seat whilst there`s someone in that seat is obviously behind them in the queue, i.e. they`re queue jumping.
There`s a well established and very fair system for allocating scarce resources, it`s called a queue.
Queue jumping ? Definitely. What definition of queue jumping does it not come under ?
That is still no different to someone getting on at Doncaster with a reserved seat and ousting whoever it is sitting in their seat. Just because you got onto the train earlier in the journey doesn't mean you have reserved the seat. First come first served isn't enshrined in law and isn't part of the rail company guiidelines. However, i can see this may cause a lot of shuffling around, but i'm not sure what you're suggesting could actually be done. The person geting on at Sheffield can probably only reserve a seat for the journey they have bought the ticket for, not part of the journey. They'd have to buy a new ticket from Doncaster in order to reserve that seat. If the seat is empty from Sheffield though, they could reserve it up to ten minutes before and go claim their seat before the train leaves. but then, so could the person who jumped in it first.
See above.
1. Anybody on a Voyager or HST service, knows that they are sitting in a seat which can be reserved during the journey.
2. Anybody can now reserve a seat.
3. Is your made up story even possible?
a) You can only do it up to 10 minutes from your station of departure. So trying to reserve a seat after you've already departed obviously won't work.
b) If they wanted to have the best chance of getting a seat, why wouldn't they simply use the free service as it was intended? Rather than mid way through a train journey?
If you want to be guaranteed a seat - reserve a seat.
No, the person who reserves the seat is the one in front of everyone in the queue to reserve the seat. That is what counts when it comes to securing a seat on a train, not sitting in the seat or even buying the train ticket, it's whether the seat is reserved that determines whether it's yours for the journey or not. That's the real queue, and you can sit in the wrong one all you like but you shouldnt compain if you're kicked out of your seat for not geting in the right queue.
My best ever domestic train experience in this country however was getting on a train from Doncaster station, (which from my experience of being in that station leaves a lot to be desired), to York and back, nice, speedy and comfortable.
Welcome to technology in 2015. Some of us embrace it. You snooze you lose and all that.
Indeed. I think the definition of fairness is, if everybody can do it. They can.
It's useful for all of us who don't know when they'll be leaving a meeting...
All seats are reservable. Why wouldn't they be?
It is apparently clear.
What queue?
1.Yes you would move.
2. There's no queue...
Is it? First come, first served is fair?
First come first served only deals with who can get their the earliest. It's hardly "fair".
Is there a queue?
I agree with you, it`s just as unfair, and just as unacceptable.
It's not unfair at all.
If you want to be guaranteed a seat for your journey - simply reserve a seat!
How is that not fair? The ability to reserve a seat has now been widened to pretty much everybody, up to 10 mins from departure. How is widening the reservation process, "unfair"?
Regularly I go on forums and you get people saying stuff which is so obviously unreasonable I think does this guy really think that, or is he just argung for the sake of it ?
There is quite obviously a queue.
And not everyone can do this because they either haven`t got a smart phone and/or they don`t know about this rather esoteric procedure.
I`d ask to see his/her reservation and if they couldn`t show me one, or they showed me something on their phone (which was timed after I`d sat in that seat), I wouldn`t move, no way, it`s a fairness principle, and I`m an idealist.
Ticket prices will soon rise.
Is there a breakdown in communication somewhere here ?
How can someone fairly reserve a seat after you`ve sat on it ?
Where does this queue start then?
There quite obviously isn't a queue in the traditional sense. Indeed the only queue there might be is the order of service in the Cross Country computer systems. All there is a finite amount seats which can be reserved. If there are seats available for reservation, somebody/anybody can reserve them. That's fairness.
and You don't need a "smart phone" to reserve a seat. You don't even need a "smart phone" to book with 10 minutes of departure.
and to state the obvious You quite obviously would move. You know if you're sitting in a seat which is currently unreserved and is liable to be reserved. You know that you can reserve a seat up to 10 mins from departure.
you know the rules of the train operator and you're claiming you wiould require a policeman to tell you to move?
And you say that I'm the unreasonable one, saying things merely to argue?
LOL!
By using the service offered by train operator, the same way as anybody else can.
your bottom is not a beach towel on the sun lounger.
well it is....
"On our Voyager and HST services you will find your seat reservation displayed in the electronic seat reservation system. If there are problems with your seat reservation, please speak to the Train Manager. On our Turbostar services, it is not possible to reserve a seat on the day of travel.
Seats which can be reserved during the train's journey will display the message 'Available, but reservable en-route(origin)to(destination), e.g. 'Available, but reservable en-route Bournemouth to Manchester'. This means that the seat is currently available but may be reserved by other customers during the train's journey. If you buy a ticket with a reservation, or use our Ten minute reservation service, the display will change to reflect your reservation."
http://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/travel-tools/ten-minute-reservations/how-it-works
Not on the CrossCountry service I travel on. There's one carriage that is entirely unreserved. Provided that's it's not already full you can sit and relax in the knowledge you're not in someone else's seat.
I travel on GWR so I don't really have that much exprience with Cross Country. Most of the long distance trains I've been on don't seem to have an "unreserved carriage".