Disagree. De Gea needs to man up, turn up, play up and not f*** up.
Right. Both LVG and De Gea agreed he wasn't in a fit state to play way before the transfer. After all that's gone on, what makes you think he's ready now? A long but not forgotten poster on here used to compare modern elite footballers to thoroughbred racehorses and I think he's right. As much as we may want them to "man up" through circumstances that we would see as a privilege to encounter, they
are actually finely-tuned and fragile. Some less so than others but this situation is bit more understandable than Rio being upset because Moyes binned the pre-match chips.
Yes, 'keepers need '100% focus', but he's a professional and there's nothing that he can do about the move collapsing. What's better for him? Playing, or sulking?
Who's saying he's sulking? What RVP did while Moyes was at OT - now that's sulking. Apart from asking not to play against Spurs, I think De Gea has behaved very well. I just want him back when he's ready not when we are and when he's unlikely to make a rick.
Maybe it is harsh, but I can't be the only one who's constantly worried that he's going to do something daft? He just gives off that air of uncertainty.
Yes he does. But for all his dodgy moments, I have to say the second goal from Swansea was also down to the defence not just him. It was a good ball in, but should never have taken out Blind and Smalling like that and while it was a saveable shot, it was also from close range.
So, United value Martial's potential at £36m. I'm now surprised they didn't try to prise Kane out of Spurs for the gossipy sum of £40m. Some people were adamant that Kane wasn't worth anything like that sum of money. What do they think now?
Kane has a far, far better record than Martial and he's English and United should have gone after him instead. Even having to pay a "Levy premium", I think he would still have been better value. Oh well.
So, United value Martial's potential at £36m. I'm now surprised they didn't try to prise Kane out of Spurs for the gossipy sum of £40m. Some people were adamant that Kane wasn't worth anything like that sum of money. What do they think now?
Kane has a far, far better record than Martial and he's English and United should have gone after him instead. Even having to pay a "Levy premium", I think he would still have been better value. Oh well.
To be fair, no one has ever heard of Martial until two days ago, so for all we know he could be Maradona.
On the De Gea issue, Bild has published 5 possible reasons why the deal collapsed, but deliberate foul play was only hinted at from ManUnited's side, i.e. that they purposely sent the documents back late (too close to deadline) because they wanted to keep him. Navas is also stated as a possible reason because he wanted late amendments to his contract. What I don't understand is why Navas' contract could not have been finalised the next day given that the deadline in England was 6pm the following day, but the De Gea documents which were ready should have been sent earlier.
So, United value Martial's potential at £36m. I'm now surprised they didn't try to prise Kane out of Spurs for the gossipy sum of £40m. Some people were adamant that Kane wasn't worth anything like that sum of money. What do they think now?
Kane has a far, far better record than Martial and he's English and United should have gone after him instead. Even having to pay a "Levy premium", I think he would still have been better value. Oh well.
Kane has had half a good season for Spurs and is being lauded as the second coming. Id say he's equally a long way from being a £40m player as Martial as far as we know. Kane didn't score a league goal until last November and this season has looked like a boy under pressure. One season wonder? Michael Owen or Michael Ricketts? The jury is very much out.
Footballers are human beings. None of us can know the mindset of De Gea right now or for the last month.
If I was guessing I would say he seems the professional type not prone to throwing his toys out of the pram, but I don't KNOW this. Just because he or his agent don't go running to the press doesn't mean that behind the scenes he hasn't been a nightmare to deal with.
Maybe his "mental state" being not fit to play was a ploy to angle a move or maybe it was genuine distress and confusion. Again I really don't know but either way the last few days wont have helped.
Leaving aside my feeling on whether a player should be able to pick and choose when he plays for a club - for whatever reason, I think its impossible for anyone on the outside to guess the best way forward because none of us really know the player.
Maybe he needs an arm round the shoulder
Maybe he needs to be told to man up
Maybe he needs to focus his anger
Maybe he needs a new contract and a Man Utd shirt and spend the next couple of years showing Real what they missed out on
The point is no one outside the club knows which is the right approach and whether or not he is in any fit state to play for the club in the near future. As I said he is a human being and even if he is being professional, if this scenario affects his game even subconsciously by 10% then he is no use as a goalkeeper right now. Its very fine margins at this level.
I would also ask this question of those delighted that the deal fell through. This is a question that I asked when we were speculating about whether he would stay or go weeks ago :-
Goalkeepers make mistakes regardless of how good or focussed they are. If De Gea is brought back in and in his first game he makes a blunder where does he go from there? It will be a total ****storm, the press will have a field day, his attitude will be called into question, his professionalism and his mind set. This goes for any mistake he makes early on. It is one hell of a lot of pressure on his shoulders. Do you put him in and expose him to that? DO you keep him out? Do you drop him again if he makes a blunder? No easy answers I suspect.
Goalkeepers make mistakes regardless of how good or focussed they are. If De Gea is brought back in and in his first game he makes a blunder where does he go from there? It will be a total ****storm, the press will have a field day, his attitude will be called into question, his professionalism and his mind set. This goes for any mistake he makes early on. It is one hell of a lot of pressure on his shoulders. Do you put him in and expose him to that? DO you keep him out? Do you drop him again if he makes a blunder? No easy answers I suspect.
Put him in goal and leave him in goal... he's a professional and already been through a rough time when he first arrived. If he struggled after 5 games maybe give him a break similar to what happened to Joe Harte 2 years ago when he came back stronger. It's no big deal.
Footballers are human beings. None of us can know the mindset of De Gea right now or for the last month.
If I was guessing I would say he seems the professional type not prone to throwing his toys out of the pram, but I don't KNOW this. Just because he or his agent don't go running to the press doesn't mean that behind the scenes he hasn't been a nightmare to deal with.
Maybe his "mental state" being not fit to play was a ploy to angle a move or maybe it was genuine distress and confusion. Again I really don't know but either way the last few days wont have helped.
Leaving aside my feeling on whether a player should be able to pick and choose when he plays for a club - for whatever reason, I think its impossible for anyone on the outside to guess the best way forward because none of us really know the player.
Maybe he needs an arm round the shoulder
Maybe he needs to be told to man up
Maybe he needs to focus his anger
Maybe he needs a new contract and a Man Utd shirt and spend the next couple of years showing Real what they missed out on
The point is no one outside the club knows which is the right approach and whether or not he is in any fit state to play for the club in the near future. As I said he is a human being and even if he is being professional, if this scenario affects his game even subconsciously by 10% then he is no use as a goalkeeper right now. Its very fine margins at this level.
I would also ask this question of those delighted that the deal fell through. This is a question that I asked when we were speculating about whether he would stay or go weeks ago :-
Goalkeepers make mistakes regardless of how good or focussed they are. If De Gea is brought back in and in his first game he makes a blunder where does he go from there? It will be a total ****storm, the press will have a field day, his attitude will be called into question, his professionalism and his mind set. This goes for any mistake he makes early on. It is one hell of a lot of pressure on his shoulders. Do you put him in and expose him to that? DO you keep him out? Do you drop him again if he makes a blunder? No easy answers I suspect.
I agree that none of us really know what the situation's going to be like, but as Kierenj has said, he's been through the wringer before, and it didn't seem to massively affect him.
Whatever happens, the press are going to be all over it. If he doesn't play, there'll be stories about 'dressing room unrest', and pictures of him in training/out shopping/whatever looking miserable. As you say, if he plays and makes a blunder, there'll be stories about his 'mental state', being unhappy with Van Gaal/the club/Manchester/whatever.
The best thing for him, and us, is for him to be playing. Give him a handful of games, and you'd expect him to be up to speed sooner rather than later. And if he's playing regularly, the press frenzy will at least die down a bit.
Leave him out of the side for any length of time, and the speculation won't be going anywhere.
But then, this is Van Gaal's problem, and I gave up trying to second-guess him a long time ago.
This would have been a huge blow to him, just because he is earning x amount per week is irrelevent, or that he came through a tough period before, that doesn't matter, this is different, and he is only human, he has emotions and frailties just like anyone else.
If he needs some time to digest this and to sort his head and emotions out, then that would be understandable in this situation.
People saying "man up and get on with it", are just wrong, that is not how you deal with this situation, that could make the situation worse if anything.
We need to give De Gea space, and allow him to sort himself out mentally first and foremost.
These people are not just slabs of meat that you can just treat as badly as you want without any consequences.
I say let's see how he is in training, and in discussions with LVG and his staff, I trust them to know when the right time to play De Gea is.
If that is the Liverpool, Southampton, PSV or Ipswich matches, then fair enough.
I hope to see him back in the team when he is ready mentally, as a fully fit, and a fully prepared De Gea will be a huge asset for us for the rest of the season.
So, United value Martial's potential at £36m. I'm now surprised they didn't try to prise Kane out of Spurs for the gossipy sum of £40m. Some people were adamant that Kane wasn't worth anything like that sum of money. What do they think now?
Kane has a far, far better record than Martial and he's English and United should have gone after him instead. Even having to pay a "Levy premium", I think he would still have been better value. Oh well.
Spurs would have wanted at least double that up front. They are completely reliant on him and he has a long-term deal. No chance of that deal happening with a few hours to go.
On the De Gea issue, Bild has published 5 possible reasons why the deal collapsed, but deliberate foul play was only hinted at from ManUnited's side, i.e. that they purposely sent the documents back late (too close to deadline) because they wanted to keep him. Navas is also stated as a possible reason because he wanted late amendments to his contract. What I don't understand is why Navas' contract could not have been finalised the next day given that the deadline in England was 6pm the following day, but the De Gea documents which were ready should have been sent earlier.
Because United couldn't sell De Gea without Navas agreeing a contract - if Navas later rejected any deal after the De Gea deal was done, we would have had no goalkeeper and a limited number of options as all clubs in Europe would refuse to sell as they couldn't buy a replacement.
This would have been a huge blow to him, just because he is earning x amount per week is irrelevent, or that he came through a tough period before, that doesn't matter, this is different, and he is only human, he has emotions and frailties just like anyone else.
If he needs some time to digest this and to sort his head and emotions out, then that would be understandable in this situation.
People saying "man up and get on with it", are just wrong, that is not how you deal with this situation, that could make the situation worse if anything.
We need to give De Gea space, and allow him to sort himself out mentally first and foremost.
These people are not just slabs of meat that you can just treat as badly as you want without any consequences.
I say let's see how he is in training, and in discussions with LVG and his staff, I trust them to know when the right time to play De Gea is.
If that is the Liverpool, Southampton, PSV or Ipswich matches, then fair enough.
I hope to see him back in the team when he is ready mentally, as a fully fit, and a fully prepared De Gea will be a huge asset for us for the rest of the season.
Have you not spent weeks and weeks explaining that he will be fine if still at the club and will play as good as before if he wants to be in the euros?
Now its all softly softly and give him time for his emotions.
Have you not spent weeks and weeks explaining that he will be fine if still at the club and will play as good as before if he wants to be in the euros?
Now its all softly softly and give him time for his emotions.
There is a difference between still being at the club, and the way that this move broke down at the very final few seconds.
This would have been a huge blow to him, just because he is earning x amount per week is irrelevent, or that he came through a tough period before, that doesn't matter, this is different, and he is only human, he has emotions and frailties just like anyone else.
If he needs some time to digest this and to sort his head and emotions out, then that would be understandable in this situation.
People saying "man up and get on with it", are just wrong, that is not how you deal with this situation, that could make the situation worse if anything.
We need to give De Gea space, and allow him to sort himself out mentally first and foremost.
These people are not just slabs of meat that you can just treat as badly as you want without any consequences.
I say let's see how he is in training, and in discussions with LVG and his staff, I trust them to know when the right time to play De Gea is.
If that is the Liverpool, Southampton, PSV or Ipswich matches, then fair enough.
I hope to see him back in the team when he is ready mentally, as a fully fit, and a fully prepared De Gea will be a huge asset for us for the rest of the season.
You make it sound like he's just suffered a bereavement, not had to postpone his move from one superclub to another, for a year.
I have little sympathy. He was happy to use us as a stepping stone, and was more than happy to bail at the first opportunity. He was even prepared to ensure that we got peanuts for him, by not signing a contract extension.
Real Madrid had all summer to sort this out. Regardless of who was to blame for the paperwork debacle, it's ultimately their fault for fannying about for 3 months.
I have more sympathy for Navas, who was being used as a makeweight, regardless of his 'feelings'.
This would have been a huge blow to him, just because he is earning x amount per week is irrelevent, or that he came through a tough period before, that doesn't matter, this is different, and he is only human, he has emotions and frailties just like anyone else.
If he needs some time to digest this and to sort his head and emotions out, then that would be understandable in this situation.
People saying "man up and get on with it", are just wrong, that is not how you deal with this situation, that could make the situation worse if anything.
We need to give De Gea space, and allow him to sort himself out mentally first and foremost.
These people are not just slabs of meat that you can just treat as badly as you want without any consequences.
I say let's see how he is in training, and in discussions with LVG and his staff, I trust them to know when the right time to play De Gea is.
If that is the Liverpool, Southampton, PSV or Ipswich matches, then fair enough.
I hope to see him back in the team when he is ready mentally, as a fully fit, and a fully prepared De Gea will be a huge asset for us for the rest of the season.
Your view of him for the last 3 months was exactly that of a slab of meat to be bought and sold.
"If Real don't bid the record amount he stays regardless of what he wants or where he wants to go"
"He is a professional and he will be just as good for his last season if he stays"
"If he wants to play in the Euro's its in his interests to play well"
I listened to you constantly argue that it was the simple matter of a record bid from Real or everything would just carry on as normal. What has changed your mind and the 180 turn?
I listened to you constantly argue that it was the simple matter of a record bid from Real or everything would just carry on as normal. What has changed your mind and the 180 turn?
Put him in goal and leave him in goal... he's a professional and already been through a rough time when he first arrived. If he struggled after 5 games maybe give him a break similar to what happened to Joe Harte 2 years ago when he came back stronger. It's no big deal.
Those five games could severely damage our season.
De Gea is probably laughing at everyone talking about and concerning themselves about his state of mind... He's probably p=ssed at what happened, but will be over it in a few days. He knows that it could well happen next summer anyway, For now he will stay at one of the world's most prestigious clubs and get on playing at his best due to professional pride and wanting to make it to the euros...
Its like yeterday, Robbie Savage said footballers are pragmatic, actually it cant have been Savage, he wouldnt know that word, anyway someone said it in the context of West Brom players wanting Berahino back in the team and they would get on with things... Footballers want the best players as team mates so that they will win games rather than lose them... They dont know what pragmatic means....
Sorry to offend any top class footballers ( no disrespect as they say)
De Gea is probably laughing at everyone talking about and concerning themselves about his state of mind... He's probably p=ssed at what happened, but will be over it in a few days. He knows that it could well happen next summer anyway, For now he will stay at one of the world's most prestigious clubs and get on playing at his best due to professional pride and wanting to make it to the euros...
Its like yeterday, Robbie Savage said footballers are pragmatic, actually it cant have been Savage, he wouldnt know that word, anyway someone said it in the context of West Brom players wanting Berahino back in the team and they would get on with things... Footballers want the best players as team mates so that they will win games rather than lose them... They dont know what pragmatic means....
Sorry to offend any top class footballers ( no disrespect as they say)
Personally I couldn't care less whether De Gea is upset or not and I have my own feelings as to whether he should be welcomed back with open arms, however....
How De Gea is feeling does have a direct impact on his performance, even subconsciously and that does bother me and that should dictate his return or not.
Your view of him for the last 3 months was exactly that of a slab of meat to be bought and sold.
"If Real don't bid the record amount he stays regardless of what he wants or where he wants to go"
"He is a professional and he will be just as good for his last season if he stays"
"If he wants to play in the Euro's its in his interests to play well"
I listened to you constantly argue that it was the simple matter of a record bid from Real or everything would just carry on as normal. What has changed your mind and the 180 turn?
There was no 180 degree u turn or anything of the sort, what has perhaps allowed me to feel compassion for him, is the way that this deal was halted right at the very last moment.
That is very different from having a bid turned down weeks from the end of the window, or some other time frame.
I admit I did not take into consideration that this situation could arise, when I made my previous comments, I expected his future to be decided before the last day, and most certainly before the last few seconds of the window.
After this situation with De Gea, I will at least think that deals cam be cancelled with seconds to spare, when I talk about deals or potential deals in the future.
I know this may be frowned upon, but ManUnited's team just got so much more unattractive with the sale of RVP I wish Van Gaal paid more attention to the look of his team
Comments
https://twitter.com/MU_ST/status/639219724287610884
Right. Both LVG and De Gea agreed he wasn't in a fit state to play way before the transfer. After all that's gone on, what makes you think he's ready now? A long but not forgotten poster on here used to compare modern elite footballers to thoroughbred racehorses and I think he's right. As much as we may want them to "man up" through circumstances that we would see as a privilege to encounter, they
are actually finely-tuned and fragile. Some less so than others but this situation is bit more understandable than Rio being upset because Moyes binned the pre-match chips.
Who's saying he's sulking? What RVP did while Moyes was at OT - now that's sulking. Apart from asking not to play against Spurs, I think De Gea has behaved very well. I just want him back when he's ready not when we are and when he's unlikely to make a rick.
Okay. Truce. Let's see how he does if he starts for Spain?
Yes he does. But for all his dodgy moments, I have to say the second goal from Swansea was also down to the defence not just him. It was a good ball in, but should never have taken out Blind and Smalling like that and while it was a saveable shot, it was also from close range.
I have a feeling that the guy is so kinky, he actually wants your hubby to track him down and beat him ;-)
Kane has a far, far better record than Martial and he's English and United should have gone after him instead. Even having to pay a "Levy premium", I think he would still have been better value. Oh well.
To be fair, no one has ever heard of Martial until two days ago, so for all we know he could be Maradona.
Equally... Madonna...
Kane has had half a good season for Spurs and is being lauded as the second coming. Id say he's equally a long way from being a £40m player as Martial as far as we know. Kane didn't score a league goal until last November and this season has looked like a boy under pressure. One season wonder? Michael Owen or Michael Ricketts? The jury is very much out.
If I was guessing I would say he seems the professional type not prone to throwing his toys out of the pram, but I don't KNOW this. Just because he or his agent don't go running to the press doesn't mean that behind the scenes he hasn't been a nightmare to deal with.
Maybe his "mental state" being not fit to play was a ploy to angle a move or maybe it was genuine distress and confusion. Again I really don't know but either way the last few days wont have helped.
Leaving aside my feeling on whether a player should be able to pick and choose when he plays for a club - for whatever reason, I think its impossible for anyone on the outside to guess the best way forward because none of us really know the player.
Maybe he needs an arm round the shoulder
Maybe he needs to be told to man up
Maybe he needs to focus his anger
Maybe he needs a new contract and a Man Utd shirt and spend the next couple of years showing Real what they missed out on
The point is no one outside the club knows which is the right approach and whether or not he is in any fit state to play for the club in the near future. As I said he is a human being and even if he is being professional, if this scenario affects his game even subconsciously by 10% then he is no use as a goalkeeper right now. Its very fine margins at this level.
I would also ask this question of those delighted that the deal fell through. This is a question that I asked when we were speculating about whether he would stay or go weeks ago :-
Goalkeepers make mistakes regardless of how good or focussed they are. If De Gea is brought back in and in his first game he makes a blunder where does he go from there? It will be a total ****storm, the press will have a field day, his attitude will be called into question, his professionalism and his mind set. This goes for any mistake he makes early on. It is one hell of a lot of pressure on his shoulders. Do you put him in and expose him to that? DO you keep him out? Do you drop him again if he makes a blunder? No easy answers I suspect.
Put him in goal and leave him in goal... he's a professional and already been through a rough time when he first arrived. If he struggled after 5 games maybe give him a break similar to what happened to Joe Harte 2 years ago when he came back stronger. It's no big deal.
I agree that none of us really know what the situation's going to be like, but as Kierenj has said, he's been through the wringer before, and it didn't seem to massively affect him.
Whatever happens, the press are going to be all over it. If he doesn't play, there'll be stories about 'dressing room unrest', and pictures of him in training/out shopping/whatever looking miserable. As you say, if he plays and makes a blunder, there'll be stories about his 'mental state', being unhappy with Van Gaal/the club/Manchester/whatever.
The best thing for him, and us, is for him to be playing. Give him a handful of games, and you'd expect him to be up to speed sooner rather than later. And if he's playing regularly, the press frenzy will at least die down a bit.
Leave him out of the side for any length of time, and the speculation won't be going anywhere.
But then, this is Van Gaal's problem, and I gave up trying to second-guess him a long time ago.
If he needs some time to digest this and to sort his head and emotions out, then that would be understandable in this situation.
People saying "man up and get on with it", are just wrong, that is not how you deal with this situation, that could make the situation worse if anything.
We need to give De Gea space, and allow him to sort himself out mentally first and foremost.
These people are not just slabs of meat that you can just treat as badly as you want without any consequences.
I say let's see how he is in training, and in discussions with LVG and his staff, I trust them to know when the right time to play De Gea is.
If that is the Liverpool, Southampton, PSV or Ipswich matches, then fair enough.
I hope to see him back in the team when he is ready mentally, as a fully fit, and a fully prepared De Gea will be a huge asset for us for the rest of the season.
Spurs would have wanted at least double that up front. They are completely reliant on him and he has a long-term deal. No chance of that deal happening with a few hours to go.
Because United couldn't sell De Gea without Navas agreeing a contract - if Navas later rejected any deal after the De Gea deal was done, we would have had no goalkeeper and a limited number of options as all clubs in Europe would refuse to sell as they couldn't buy a replacement.
Have you not spent weeks and weeks explaining that he will be fine if still at the club and will play as good as before if he wants to be in the euros?
Now its all softly softly and give him time for his emotions.
There is a difference between still being at the club, and the way that this move broke down at the very final few seconds.
You make it sound like he's just suffered a bereavement, not had to postpone his move from one superclub to another, for a year.
I have little sympathy. He was happy to use us as a stepping stone, and was more than happy to bail at the first opportunity. He was even prepared to ensure that we got peanuts for him, by not signing a contract extension.
Real Madrid had all summer to sort this out. Regardless of who was to blame for the paperwork debacle, it's ultimately their fault for fannying about for 3 months.
I have more sympathy for Navas, who was being used as a makeweight, regardless of his 'feelings'.
Your view of him for the last 3 months was exactly that of a slab of meat to be bought and sold.
"If Real don't bid the record amount he stays regardless of what he wants or where he wants to go"
"He is a professional and he will be just as good for his last season if he stays"
"If he wants to play in the Euro's its in his interests to play well"
I listened to you constantly argue that it was the simple matter of a record bid from Real or everything would just carry on as normal. What has changed your mind and the 180 turn?
Its a Thursday?
If he was Maradona, we would have heard of him by now. We had already heard of Hazard at his age. Let's just hope he's a later developer.
Those five games could severely damage our season.
I like your style
Its like yeterday, Robbie Savage said footballers are pragmatic, actually it cant have been Savage, he wouldnt know that word, anyway someone said it in the context of West Brom players wanting Berahino back in the team and they would get on with things... Footballers want the best players as team mates so that they will win games rather than lose them... They dont know what pragmatic means....
Sorry to offend any top class footballers ( no disrespect as they say)
Personally I couldn't care less whether De Gea is upset or not and I have my own feelings as to whether he should be welcomed back with open arms, however....
How De Gea is feeling does have a direct impact on his performance, even subconsciously and that does bother me and that should dictate his return or not.
There was no 180 degree u turn or anything of the sort, what has perhaps allowed me to feel compassion for him, is the way that this deal was halted right at the very last moment.
That is very different from having a bid turned down weeks from the end of the window, or some other time frame.
I admit I did not take into consideration that this situation could arise, when I made my previous comments, I expected his future to be decided before the last day, and most certainly before the last few seconds of the window.
After this situation with De Gea, I will at least think that deals cam be cancelled with seconds to spare, when I talk about deals or potential deals in the future.
What has today got to do with anything??