That's her problem. All the hyperbole from Cowell will turn people against her. Last week it was "that could be have been the latest track from a long established artist"..this week it was " performance of the series".
Even for Cowell, that kind of rubbish is taking the joke too far. We expect a little brainwashing, it happens every series..but don't take us for complete idiots.
But it worked last year when he managed to convince a decent % of the voting public that Olly Murs was a brilliant new artist. People fell for it and he almost won the show. Ditto Eoghan Quigg - so mediocre it isn't funny yet Cowell acted like he was the greatest undiscovered talent he'd ever seen.
Cowell has managed to fool some of the people, most of the time for years now and he will keep on doing it until he's bored.
Great post OP, but all this just frustrates me incredibly.
I was not impressed with Aiden's version of thriller (and he is one of my fav's) but hey, at least you can tell he has a raw talent and doesn't need all this kind of back up and assistance.
Maybe I do need to get a grip, a grip about why forum members can post such dreadful things about a seventeen year old girl who want to make her way in the music world? If you'd seen some of the most vile of insults made against this young lady then you'd understand where I'm coming from. She's someone's daughter, she's someone's friend, she's YOUNG! No one deserves to have such horrid things said against them on a public forum, it leaves such a nasty taste in my mouth, personal insults which are so unnecessary. Okay, you don't like the sound of her voice and that's your perogative, but to comment on her features, to call her ugly? That's just not on, no way Jose, just not on. It seems that people think they can say what they like on a public forum and it's okay, well IT''S NOT! Make your feelings known about a performance and I'll accept it but not on how someone is born because that's way out of order.
I'll be willing to bet most of the negative comments are from under 18's. This 'only 17' is pathetic, she is not a child, she is old enough to be on XF, she is old enough to be criticised. (Though criticising anyones looks is gross) If you think that it's cruel, get onto Simon and ask him to raise the bar so under 18's are banned from appearing.
I think she was quite good. Cher did the song in her own style, and I thought she sang it well. She isn't as talented a vocalist as say, Rebecca.. but she's fantastic in her own right. I prefer her 'put ya swag on' type stuff but it's great to see her being versatile.
I think she deserves to stay in, definatley. Great post op.
Again twinkle, i agree with you that commenting on peoples looks seems pretty uncalled for when judging their singing.
But....... its the X Factor..... your meant to rate their potantial as a "Star" and that means you have to look appealing as well as sound good.
I dont think she is ugly at all, however, she has such a miserable look about her, its all attitude and "Yo man, show me respect or yo goin' down" caricature sort of thing going on, it makes it difficult to like her.
I feel that SyCo is setting her up as the first manufactured UK rap artist. Its a bit of a shame, the music loving public just wont take to her, she will get the usual hit single followed by a couple of lukewarm releases and then she will more or less fall off the radar, but by then XF will have got what they needer from her.
Honestly, your better off voting Wagner, at least your not condemning some poor 17yo girl to the life of trained puppet until Syco gets bored of them (Steve Brookstein, Shayne, Joe, Michelle, Leon etc, etc, etc).....
Really good post OP. And I agree with some of the above posts too. I always liked her, never my favorite though. Yesterday performance was really impressive more so because of the production, I caught on the visual more than the track one (thanks for that OP). But the judges comments made me take two steps back in my liking of her, which is not good for her as I imagine this will happen to many undecided about her.
Sorry OP, I'm not sure what you were watching (or more importantly listening to) but your 'honest opinion' does not match the facts. There is no guide vocal and very little in the way of backing vocals (much less than for TreyC and Mary for example) as anyone can see for themselves.
As the OP said it was a heavily condensed version of the song and missed out on the higher scale notes that make the original by Shakespeares Sister so amazing. In fairness to Cher she sang it fairly well but it did show she has a very limited range to her vocal. She did as she was asked and managed to deliever a song without rapping but I think her limitations were displayed.
What a load of clap-trap! But it's so much fun to be a bad music critic.:D
One small point about the original recording of Stay, it was written for a duet.
Indeed it was, and i loved Siobhan Faheys bit when she comes in as the Evil temptress to take away the deal lover of Marcella Detroit, only for Marcella's praying to rescue the dead guy from the cold clutches of death.... if it was me though i would much rather have run off with Siobhan, much sexier
Marcella sang on Eric Clapton songs back in the 70's when she was 17, she was a lot older than people realised during the Shakespears Sister era.
The Siobhan bit is pretty easy to sing, being a sort of growl
Again twinkle, i agree with you that commenting on peoples looks seems pretty uncalled for when judging their singing.
But....... its the X Factor..... your meant to rate their potantial as a "Star" and that means you have to look appealing as well as sound good.
I dont think she is ugly at all, however, she has such a miserable look about her, its all attitude and "Yo man, show me respect or yo goin' down" caricature sort of thing going on, it makes it difficult to like her.
I feel that SyCo is setting her up as the first manufactured UK rap artist. Its a bit of a shame, the music loving public just wont take to her, she will get the usual hit single followed by a couple of lukewarm releases and then she will more or less fall off the radar, but by then XF will have got what they needer from her.
Honestly, your better off voting Wagner, at least your not condemning some poor 17yo girl to the life of trained puppet until Syco gets bored of them (Steve Brookstein, Shayne, Joe, Michelle, Leon etc, etc, etc).....
I honestly don't think that she'll go the way of those you quoted, Cher has something special and yes, I may agree with you that she's playing on the emotion thing but doesn't that tell you that she's studied form and knows the rules?
Good luck to her, I say, she has far more commercial "sellability" than the likes of Mary who'll only win the support of the stuffy oldies who haven't moved on or are incapable of moving on.
As for Wagner! Please do me a favour, I'm not stupid and don't ever assume that I am. Those who keep that "entertainer" in the show should realise that they're preventing someone with real talent fromr being realised for the gift that they have. Honestly, sometimes I wonder about the mentality of some of our voting public.
Indeed there was a backing guide, i was even sad enough to fiddle about with the track through my editing suite to hear what was going on im ashamed to admit that to be honest, i really should get a life.........
Obviously its not a massive full vocal backing track (like Axle Rose apparently used on their last tour for some songs, and Roger Waters has been using on his current tour), that would be too noticeable, its a guide track, you can hear it best when she is walking across the stage and at the end, you can hear her softer vocal stop just short and the backing covering it.
but hey, maybe im wrong, it wouldnt be the first time, im just using my own expertise and judgement and calling it as i hear it, im happy to be proved wrong, it doesnt matter to me that much (honest..... despite all my repeated posts ).
Twinkle: I think you may be over-rating Cher just a bit lol
Much as i appreciate that you like her, i dont think she has much in the way of talent as a musician. Stage prescence? possibly, and maybe she has a certain charisma, but its second division stuff, if it wasnt for all the hype and the SyCo media machine then you wouldnt look twice at her or stop to listen to her singing.
I guess that a year from now you wont even remember her.
Its the same every year, theres lots of undying support for peoples faves who they proclaim will be massive stars and have huge careers...... then nothing, next year comes and the machine starts all over again.
You want good, haunting female singers? go listen to All About Eve. If you want attitude then try Kelis.
Sorry Twinkle but the criticisms in this thread are not vile, nasty or horrible at all.
If I said she was an ugly bint, a ****, a bitch etc. etc. etc. then those would be horrible, nasty comments.
Legitimate comments on the quality of her performance are fine... isn't that what she's up there for? For the judges to pass comment and then the public (us) to pass our judgement and then vote for those who we think meet certain criteria.
The OP makes some valid points,I was a massive cher critic (her previous performances have been IMHO abismal - I enjoy many genres in music including rap & hiphop and I don't think she cut it in that genre at all).
Last night she managed to keep on top of a very difficult song and it sounded good, she may have had some help, she may have lost her way a bit here and there. These are valid points.
The issue then becomes whether or not these points mattered to you or not; that will differ between people. For some they will be major distractions which will cause them not to enjoy the performance for some they will not matter as much and allow them to enjoy the performance.
I enjoyed her performance last night, even with the flaws which I can openly admit where there and can openly admit she was in a different league to her past performances without the contrived rap.
It's good to be balanced and objective you know.
As for what she looks like (attractiveness), thats largely irrelevant. Some people may find her good looking, others won't, tastes vary there.
I don't find her at all attractive, others may. So what?!?!
I honestly don't think that she'll go the way of those you quoted, Cher has something special and yes, I may agree with you that she's playing on the emotion thing but doesn't that tell you that she's studied form and knows the rules?
Good luck to her, I say, she has far more commercial "sellability" than the likes of Mary who'll only win the support of the stuffy oldies who haven't moved on or are incapable of moving on.
As for Wagner! Please do me a favour, I'm not stupid and don't ever assume that I am. Those who keep that "entertainer" in the show should realise that they're preventing someone with real talent fromr being realised for the gift that they have. Honestly, sometimes I wonder about the mentality of some of our voting public.
I think a lot of the 'voting public' are voting for Wagner because they are tired of the obvious manipulation of the show, it's a way to stick their fingers up at Cowell and say, hey it's our show, we decide who wins not you, plus everyone loves an underdog. However, the sad part is all they are doing is lining Mr Cowell's pockets even further.
I'm not voting on this show again, I'd rather give my money to charity, but I would very much love to see Wagner do well, as the whole show is a complete farce, it's not about talent anymore, its just another Big Brother.
I thought she sung it well if you compare it to what she normally does but it wasn't incredible. I think Simon's and Cheryl's bias towards her is getting ridiculous cos compared to the Shakespeare Sister version Cher doesn't even come close.
i agree that people shouldn't be so nasty about the contestants...but that's the internet for you...people hiding behind a computer...saying things that they would never dare say to someone elses face...
but i also think that X Factor should raise the lower age to 18, cos i'm not sure that people under 18 can handle all the hype, criticism, negativity & downright nastiness that is on the internet...
i mean the stuff that's printed in the papers is bad enough, but some of the stuff that's posted on here is disgraceful...some people clearly have no feelings or sensitivity...
constructive crticism is one thing...but saying someone is ugly or should have a 'branch shoved down their throat' is another !
I agree Hope, some of the personal insults go too far.
And they have the counter result of what poster wants to achieve. People will actually turn in favour of Cher if all they see is people threatening her and being disgusting.
Im not a fan, but i think she could improve her looks by dropping the hard nosed attitude that we keep seeing, its twisting her features and looks so outdated and false. Under all the cheap make up and bad attitude im sure she is quite pretty, just a shame that she has allowed the XF production team to turn her into the worst sort of bad attitude teen..... or maybe she was like that anyway, who knows?
Look at Rebecca, she has a great voice and is also sweet and modest.
To be honest though, there are a lot of ar*seholes in the music biz, never a bigger bunch of big headed, pretentious ***** will you see, luckily there are just enough good guys out there to make it bearable.
I think Cher did OK with the song. Unfortunately, her good work was spoiled by the tears at the end, and by the ridiculous overpraising of the judges!
It was Cher's best performance of the series, but no way was it THE best performance of the series! (Matt, Mary and Aiden in Week 1 all gave better performances). It wasn't even the best performance of the night (for me, that would be Rebecca or Paije). She was probably third on the night, for me.
The judges need to be realistic in their comments. Cher has potential, but she needs a lot of work on her vocals. A great vocalist is a great vocalist through a combination of talent and hard work. It doesn't just magically happen.
But it worked last year when he managed to convince a decent % of the voting public that Olly Murs was a brilliant new artist. People fell for it and he almost won the show. Ditto Eoghan Quigg - so mediocre it isn't funny yet Cowell acted like he was the greatest undiscovered talent he'd ever seen.
Cowell has managed to fool some of the people, most of the time for years now and he will keep on doing it until he's bored.
I agree, but my missus liked Olly, so I have to be careful what I say.
I thought he was a likeable, middle of the road singer, with a half-decent voice.
Eggnog was obviously being touted for the little girls..a big market, but not big enough.
In the end, its's all down to those £££'s, and who Cowell believes is the most marketable. This year, he appears to have decided that Cher and/or One Direction are the best bets to pay for another luxury villa in the sunshine
It'll be devestating for her if she reads all the negative comments on this forum. I just wanna give her a big hug
lol, again, trust me, she wont care one bit about what you, or any of the negative posters write on this or any other site.
Have you really all fallen for the "vunerable little girl" act?
I dont blame Cher, its the bloody XF producers and SyCo that cause all this.
Im just annoyed, i hate to see how easily the public can be manipulated. Its true that the mass public are just sheep, individually people can be sensible but as part of a group all reason goes out the window and they just play follow the leader.
Have to admit though, the XF marketing team are bloody geniuses, hats off to them, they know exactly how to manipulate people, to push and swey and shock and convince the public to react exactly as they want.
I bet that even everything im writing just now is a result of their nasty little tactics, i've obviously fallen for their hype machine, otherwise i wouldnt care enough to write any of this rubbish, ggggrrrrrrr now im getting angrier.
Comments
But it worked last year when he managed to convince a decent % of the voting public that Olly Murs was a brilliant new artist. People fell for it and he almost won the show. Ditto Eoghan Quigg - so mediocre it isn't funny yet Cowell acted like he was the greatest undiscovered talent he'd ever seen.
Cowell has managed to fool some of the people, most of the time for years now and he will keep on doing it until he's bored.
I was not impressed with Aiden's version of thriller (and he is one of my fav's) but hey, at least you can tell he has a raw talent and doesn't need all this kind of back up and assistance.
Who wins X Factor ? Simon pretty much decides.
What a load of clap-trap! But it's so much fun to be a bad music critic.:D
One small point about the original recording of Stay, it was written for a duet.
I'll be willing to bet most of the negative comments are from under 18's. This 'only 17' is pathetic, she is not a child, she is old enough to be on XF, she is old enough to be criticised. (Though criticising anyones looks is gross) If you think that it's cruel, get onto Simon and ask him to raise the bar so under 18's are banned from appearing.
I think she deserves to stay in, definatley. Great post op.
But....... its the X Factor..... your meant to rate their potantial as a "Star" and that means you have to look appealing as well as sound good.
I dont think she is ugly at all, however, she has such a miserable look about her, its all attitude and "Yo man, show me respect or yo goin' down" caricature sort of thing going on, it makes it difficult to like her.
I feel that SyCo is setting her up as the first manufactured UK rap artist. Its a bit of a shame, the music loving public just wont take to her, she will get the usual hit single followed by a couple of lukewarm releases and then she will more or less fall off the radar, but by then XF will have got what they needer from her.
Honestly, your better off voting Wagner, at least your not condemning some poor 17yo girl to the life of trained puppet until Syco gets bored of them (Steve Brookstein, Shayne, Joe, Michelle, Leon etc, etc, etc).....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xqIdFU0TRg
Indeed it was, and i loved Siobhan Faheys bit when she comes in as the Evil temptress to take away the deal lover of Marcella Detroit, only for Marcella's praying to rescue the dead guy from the cold clutches of death.... if it was me though i would much rather have run off with Siobhan, much sexier
Marcella sang on Eric Clapton songs back in the 70's when she was 17, she was a lot older than people realised during the Shakespears Sister era.
The Siobhan bit is pretty easy to sing, being a sort of growl
Thats true. There's a backing track, hence the piano and drums, but no backing vocals.
I honestly don't think that she'll go the way of those you quoted, Cher has something special and yes, I may agree with you that she's playing on the emotion thing but doesn't that tell you that she's studied form and knows the rules?
Good luck to her, I say, she has far more commercial "sellability" than the likes of Mary who'll only win the support of the stuffy oldies who haven't moved on or are incapable of moving on.
As for Wagner! Please do me a favour, I'm not stupid and don't ever assume that I am. Those who keep that "entertainer" in the show should realise that they're preventing someone with real talent fromr being realised for the gift that they have. Honestly, sometimes I wonder about the mentality of some of our voting public.
Obviously its not a massive full vocal backing track (like Axle Rose apparently used on their last tour for some songs, and Roger Waters has been using on his current tour), that would be too noticeable, its a guide track, you can hear it best when she is walking across the stage and at the end, you can hear her softer vocal stop just short and the backing covering it.
but hey, maybe im wrong, it wouldnt be the first time, im just using my own expertise and judgement and calling it as i hear it, im happy to be proved wrong, it doesnt matter to me that much (honest..... despite all my repeated posts ).
Much as i appreciate that you like her, i dont think she has much in the way of talent as a musician. Stage prescence? possibly, and maybe she has a certain charisma, but its second division stuff, if it wasnt for all the hype and the SyCo media machine then you wouldnt look twice at her or stop to listen to her singing.
I guess that a year from now you wont even remember her.
Its the same every year, theres lots of undying support for peoples faves who they proclaim will be massive stars and have huge careers...... then nothing, next year comes and the machine starts all over again.
You want good, haunting female singers? go listen to All About Eve. If you want attitude then try Kelis.
I have been a fan of her since day 1, before all the media hype and stuff.
I listen to her songs every day because she has a lovely singing voice.
and last but not least, I think she's very attractive
If I said she was an ugly bint, a ****, a bitch etc. etc. etc. then those would be horrible, nasty comments.
Legitimate comments on the quality of her performance are fine... isn't that what she's up there for? For the judges to pass comment and then the public (us) to pass our judgement and then vote for those who we think meet certain criteria.
The OP makes some valid points,I was a massive cher critic (her previous performances have been IMHO abismal - I enjoy many genres in music including rap & hiphop and I don't think she cut it in that genre at all).
Last night she managed to keep on top of a very difficult song and it sounded good, she may have had some help, she may have lost her way a bit here and there. These are valid points.
The issue then becomes whether or not these points mattered to you or not; that will differ between people. For some they will be major distractions which will cause them not to enjoy the performance for some they will not matter as much and allow them to enjoy the performance.
I enjoyed her performance last night, even with the flaws which I can openly admit where there and can openly admit she was in a different league to her past performances without the contrived rap.
It's good to be balanced and objective you know.
As for what she looks like (attractiveness), thats largely irrelevant. Some people may find her good looking, others won't, tastes vary there.
I don't find her at all attractive, others may. So what?!?!
I think a lot of the 'voting public' are voting for Wagner because they are tired of the obvious manipulation of the show, it's a way to stick their fingers up at Cowell and say, hey it's our show, we decide who wins not you, plus everyone loves an underdog. However, the sad part is all they are doing is lining Mr Cowell's pockets even further.
I'm not voting on this show again, I'd rather give my money to charity, but I would very much love to see Wagner do well, as the whole show is a complete farce, it's not about talent anymore, its just another Big Brother.
but i also think that X Factor should raise the lower age to 18, cos i'm not sure that people under 18 can handle all the hype, criticism, negativity & downright nastiness that is on the internet...
i mean the stuff that's printed in the papers is bad enough, but some of the stuff that's posted on here is disgraceful...some people clearly have no feelings or sensitivity...
constructive crticism is one thing...but saying someone is ugly or should have a 'branch shoved down their throat' is another !
i just hope they don't read it...
Twinkle seemed to be talking about comments made on this forum NOT in this thread...
And they have the counter result of what poster wants to achieve. People will actually turn in favour of Cher if all they see is people threatening her and being disgusting.
Im not a fan, but i think she could improve her looks by dropping the hard nosed attitude that we keep seeing, its twisting her features and looks so outdated and false. Under all the cheap make up and bad attitude im sure she is quite pretty, just a shame that she has allowed the XF production team to turn her into the worst sort of bad attitude teen..... or maybe she was like that anyway, who knows?
Look at Rebecca, she has a great voice and is also sweet and modest.
To be honest though, there are a lot of ar*seholes in the music biz, never a bigger bunch of big headed, pretentious ***** will you see, luckily there are just enough good guys out there to make it bearable.
It was Cher's best performance of the series, but no way was it THE best performance of the series! (Matt, Mary and Aiden in Week 1 all gave better performances). It wasn't even the best performance of the night (for me, that would be Rebecca or Paije). She was probably third on the night, for me.
The judges need to be realistic in their comments. Cher has potential, but she needs a lot of work on her vocals. A great vocalist is a great vocalist through a combination of talent and hard work. It doesn't just magically happen.
I agree, but my missus liked Olly, so I have to be careful what I say.
I thought he was a likeable, middle of the road singer, with a half-decent voice.
Eggnog was obviously being touted for the little girls..a big market, but not big enough.
In the end, its's all down to those £££'s, and who Cowell believes is the most marketable. This year, he appears to have decided that Cher and/or One Direction are the best bets to pay for another luxury villa in the sunshine
lol, again, trust me, she wont care one bit about what you, or any of the negative posters write on this or any other site.
Have you really all fallen for the "vunerable little girl" act?
I dont blame Cher, its the bloody XF producers and SyCo that cause all this.
Im just annoyed, i hate to see how easily the public can be manipulated. Its true that the mass public are just sheep, individually people can be sensible but as part of a group all reason goes out the window and they just play follow the leader.
Have to admit though, the XF marketing team are bloody geniuses, hats off to them, they know exactly how to manipulate people, to push and swey and shock and convince the public to react exactly as they want.
I bet that even everything im writing just now is a result of their nasty little tactics, i've obviously fallen for their hype machine, otherwise i wouldnt care enough to write any of this rubbish, ggggrrrrrrr now im getting angrier.
:mad: