hey. thanks to everyone who responded to my theory about this episode ie that its about the experience many gay children have in being accepted. it was a great discussion. i was particularly interested in one of the alternate theories proposed: that it was about autism. that simply didn't cross my radar, so thanks, because it opened my mind to different possibilities and made me realize i may not actually be right!
however, i think art should challenge us to think or at least engage our brain about its possible meaning. i certainly think the new series works on this level at the very least. cheers everyone.
hey. thanks to everyone who responded to my theory about this episode ie that its about the experience many gay children have in being accepted. it was a great discussion. i was particularly interested in one of the alternate theories proposed: that it was about autism. that simply didn't cross my radar, so thanks, because it opened my mind to different possibilities and made me realize i may not actually be right!
however, i think art should challenge us to think or at least engage our brain about its possible meaning. i certainly think the new series works on this level at the very least. cheers everyone.
Thank you for your interesting and insightful post.
I like seeing other posters perspective on episodes, especially when they make me see something I hadn't seen or thought of before. I hope you post many more.
ahh ok sorry I'v read the post and actually it does make alot of sense. To fez how do you know when gay people realisse they are gay?
I didn't realise Mark Gattis was gay either. I wonder if it was intentionional sub-text or just the way oher people see it.
ahh ok sorry I'v read the post and actually it does make alot of sense. To fez how do you know when gay people realisse they are gay?
I didn't realise Mark Gattis was gay either. I wonder if it was intentionional sub-text or just the way oher people see it.
I think the interesting bit was that there were a couple of other subtexts that could have also be applied (Autism) depending on the person's perspective.
You could - if you wanted to - read various things into almost every aspect of a show like this. Prime example - RTD gave Time Lords the ability to spot or sense each other - that could be compared to "gaydar".
Part of it is that we know more about the personal lives of the cast and crew in a way we never did in the past (at least, not at the time). It's very likely that a fair portion of the writers and production crew in the 60's, 70's and 80's were gay, racist, mysoginist, dog-lovers - but no-one spotted their secret messages - because no-one was looking for them - or they didn't exist.
I'd compare it with James Bond - it's only in recnt years that people have "spotted" that all Bond villains are physically handicapped in some way. Now we "know", we can look back and say that every scar and sneeze is another sign of the author's prejudice - he associates physical imperfections with "evil". The fact is that it is highly unlikely that a man who - in real life - saw wars and worked in the military would regard injuries as any such thing - he just followed a tradition in fiction of "damaging" villains - but he's now pointed at as if he's the only person ever to suggest such a thing.
Likewise, "monsters in the wardrobe" has been around a very long time. It's very likely that no-one would even consider the notion of "the closet" referring to sexuality if it hadn't been for the high-profile coverage of RTD's sexuality and his inclusion of gay characters with equal standing to straight ones.
Forty years ago, people might have looked at recent series and seen a "black agenda". Now, the inclusion of black actors as heroes or villains is largely unnoticed - we just grew out of seeing anything novel or interesting about it. In another forty years, we won't even consider the idea of their being "gay stories" any more than we'd point at one and say "that's so hetero".
hey. thanks to everyone who responded to my theory about this episode ie that its about the experience many gay children have in being accepted. it was a great discussion. i was particularly interested in one of the alternate theories proposed: that it was about autism. that simply didn't cross my radar, so thanks, because it opened my mind to different possibilities and made me realize i may not actually be right!
however, i think art should challenge us to think or at least engage our brain about its possible meaning. i certainly think the new series works on this level at the very least. cheers everyone.
It could possibly be about OCD? George seemed to have a lot of Obsessive Compulsive Behaviour such as turning the light on and off five times.
ahh ok sorry I'v read the post and actually it does make alot of sense. To fez how do you know when gay people realisse they are gay?
I didn't realise Mark Gattis was gay either. I wonder if it was intentionional sub-text or just the way oher people see it.
I just assumed most people realised that they were gay in their teens, because that's when hormones start to kick in etc. Most children aren't fully aware of their sexuality until early teens or just before that, be they heterosexual or homosexual. Certainly no-one I knew paid any attention to girls in Primary School anyway.
Of course there are bound to be exceptions.
lostinchina: Thank you for beginning a discussion on possible metaphors in the episode. I find these conversations to be thought-provoking and enlightening. I didn't mean to hijack your topic, only to expand the possible metaphors by bringing up my own interpretation.
Miss Willow: Very, very interesting post. Hearing your viewpoint on the issue really brought even more to the episode to me and I may very well rewatch the episode because of your response> I would not have rewatched it otherwise, because at first viewing I did not care for it too much.
To anyone who may be interested in seeing autism tackled in science-fiction: There is a show that started this summer on SyFy in the US called Alphas. It is a show about a group of people with superpowers and one of the members of the team is autistic. I have not seen it dealt with directly in a sci-fi show before with a main character and I was pleasantly surprised with how well they handle it on the show.
hey. thanks to everyone who responded to my theory about this episode ie that its about the experience many gay children have in being accepted. it was a great discussion. i was particularly interested in one of the alternate theories proposed: that it was about autism. that simply didn't cross my radar, so thanks, because it opened my mind to different possibilities and made me realize i may not actually be right!
however, i think art should challenge us to think or at least engage our brain about its possible meaning. i certainly think the new series works on this level at the very least. cheers everyone.
Hi lostinchina - nice to meet you
Your theory was also a very interesting theory and I enjoyed reading your post too.
'Night Terrors' was thought-provoking and intelligently written... and entertaining to boot. Everything a good Doctor Who episode should be
It could possibly be about OCD? George seemed to have a lot of Obsessive Compulsive Behaviour such as turning the light on and off five times.
Hi Fez
I wish I could remember the link but I do recall Mark Gatiss stating in an interview that George was written with special needs in mind. I don't think the needs were of an ASD nature but yes, more in line with OCD.
Well I have just managed to watch it in iPlayer. I voted "Good". I enjoyed it but it wasn't perhaps as frightening / dark as it could have been.
As for the discussions about a gay /autistic subtext; as a person with autism I can say that the analogies, to me anyway, fit more with autism than a gay agenda although I can certainly see how that would also fit. Just in my experience, the fear of rejection, uncertainty about "strange" / scary people, the inability to express emptions etc. is more in line with autism.
lostinchina: Thank you for beginning a discussion on possible metaphors in the episode. I find these conversations to be thought-provoking and enlightening. I didn't mean to hijack your topic, only to expand the possible metaphors by bringing up my own interpretation.
Miss Willow: Very, very interesting post. Hearing your viewpoint on the issue really brought even more to the episode to me and I may very well rewatch the episode because of your response> I would not have rewatched it otherwise, because at first viewing I did not care for it too much.
To anyone who may be interested in seeing autism tackled in science-fiction: There is a show that started this summer on SyFy in the US called Alphas. It is a show about a group of people with superpowers and one of the members of the team is autistic. I have not seen it dealt with directly in a sci-fi show before with a main character and I was pleasantly surprised with how well they handle it on the show.
Hi Medan 74
'NT' was certainly very interesting and there were many behavioural parallels with ASDs.
Thank you for letting us know about Alphas. I'll have a look at some clips on You-Tube if I can.
Isn't it also rumoured that the character of Sheldon Cooper (of the wonderful 'Big Bang Theory') has Asperger's Syndrome?
Well I have just managed to watch it in iPlayer. I voted "Good". I enjoyed it but it wasn't perhaps as frightening / dark as it could have been.
As for the discussions about a gay /autistic subtext; as a person with autism I can say that the analogies, to me anyway, fit more with autism than a gay agenda although I can certainly see how that would also fit. Just in my experience, the fear of rejection, uncertainty about "strange" / scary people, the inability to express emptions etc. is more in line with autism.
Hi Samster - lovely to meet you
I very much agree with you - the analogies fit perfectly.
My Eldest Daughter has moderate autism and has difficulties in not only expressing her emotions but coping with the emotions of others. My Youngest Daughter has Asperger's Syndrome and experiences similar difficulties.
I haven't had the chance to chat about NT with my Youngest (she watched it with her father at his place) but she certainly shares the anxieties about night-times that George has, especially if she is particularly anxious about something else totally unrelated to her night-time fear (usually about something happening during the day that she hasn't been able to express her feelings about). No posters with human or animals in their rooms - for my Girls, they literally come to life, which I can only imagine must be terrifying. They both have very vivid dreams - in fact, Youngest has such vivid dreams, she is able to draw them onto the Flipnotes function on the Nintendo DSi.
I also found how quickly George felt at ease with the Doctor very interesting. OH and I feel that they related to each other very well.
I'd compare it with James Bond - it's only in recnt years that people have "spotted" that all Bond villains are physically handicapped in some way. Now we "know", we can look back and say that every scar and sneeze is another sign of the author's prejudice - he associates physical imperfections with "evil". The fact is that it is highly unlikely that a man who - in real life - saw wars and worked in the military would regard injuries as any such thing - he just followed a tradition in fiction of "damaging" villains - but he's now pointed at as if he's the only person ever to suggest
In the books Bond also had a facial scar himself on his cheek and eyelid (shown in the early newspaper strip) so he is also physically damaged too even before some additional scarring after being tortured in Casino Royale. I would not like to meet anyone with Bond's psychological profile, in his own way he's as dark and twisted as the villains.
Fleming's maddest trait that he gave Bond is that Bond believed homosexuals couldn't whistle (I'm not making this up!) which is why in some of the early Connery films he's often seen whistling!
I wish I could remember the link but I do recall Mark Gatiss stating in an interview that George was written with special needs in mind. I don't think the needs were of an ASD nature but yes, more in line with OCD.
Yeh. If he had autism he would probably have less compulsive behaviour and more strange behaviour when interacting with other people.
To me he seemed to have a mixture of OCD and anxiety.
I just assumed most people realised that they were gay in their teens, because that's when hormones start to kick in etc.
I'm not so sure it starts then - if I remember my childhood properly then I was attracted to girls from age 6 or 7 (indeed, my first vaguely sexual experience was well before my teens) and most definitely not attracted to boys.
Even allowing for some societal bias there, you would probably know within yourself how you were going to swing at an early age even if you didn't consciously connect it with a 'sexual orientation' until later. Not being gay though, I don't know for sure.
Comments
Oh no! Ting! I'm so sorry for what I said!
Please forgive me......please say it's not too late......please..
I'm sorry. I am already setting my affairs in order, donning my dress uniform and loading my revolver.:sleep:
Goodbye, cruel world!
Goodbe, ting.
It was an honour to know you.
I am utterly distraught. Oh, well, if you are determined.....
have you remembered to sign the will form I sent to you, naming me as your beneficiary?
No. You've missed your chance.
I'm leaving everything to the RSPCQ (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Quarks).
Don't forget to say "I don't want to go"
Well, Dodo says hurry up and pull the trigger.
I don't think that at all. Certainly not.
He he.....a lovely last image for ting to take with him to the other side......
I've already ordered his headstone with it written on.
Best of all, I just made his last words canon so he's stuck with them.
(PS - don't tell him that I've also edited Wikipedia - it now says that the "T" in Russell T Davies stands for "Ting")
And you can tell Dodo she can whistle for her money, too!
Careful.....you don't want to upset Dodo. She's got a bit of a temper. And she can be lethal. :eek:
however, i think art should challenge us to think or at least engage our brain about its possible meaning. i certainly think the new series works on this level at the very least. cheers everyone.
Thank you for your interesting and insightful post.
I like seeing other posters perspective on episodes, especially when they make me see something I hadn't seen or thought of before. I hope you post many more.
I didn't realise Mark Gattis was gay either. I wonder if it was intentionional sub-text or just the way oher people see it.
I think the interesting bit was that there were a couple of other subtexts that could have also be applied (Autism) depending on the person's perspective.
Part of it is that we know more about the personal lives of the cast and crew in a way we never did in the past (at least, not at the time). It's very likely that a fair portion of the writers and production crew in the 60's, 70's and 80's were gay, racist, mysoginist, dog-lovers - but no-one spotted their secret messages - because no-one was looking for them - or they didn't exist.
I'd compare it with James Bond - it's only in recnt years that people have "spotted" that all Bond villains are physically handicapped in some way. Now we "know", we can look back and say that every scar and sneeze is another sign of the author's prejudice - he associates physical imperfections with "evil". The fact is that it is highly unlikely that a man who - in real life - saw wars and worked in the military would regard injuries as any such thing - he just followed a tradition in fiction of "damaging" villains - but he's now pointed at as if he's the only person ever to suggest such a thing.
Likewise, "monsters in the wardrobe" has been around a very long time. It's very likely that no-one would even consider the notion of "the closet" referring to sexuality if it hadn't been for the high-profile coverage of RTD's sexuality and his inclusion of gay characters with equal standing to straight ones.
Forty years ago, people might have looked at recent series and seen a "black agenda". Now, the inclusion of black actors as heroes or villains is largely unnoticed - we just grew out of seeing anything novel or interesting about it. In another forty years, we won't even consider the idea of their being "gay stories" any more than we'd point at one and say "that's so hetero".
It could possibly be about OCD? George seemed to have a lot of Obsessive Compulsive Behaviour such as turning the light on and off five times.
I just assumed most people realised that they were gay in their teens, because that's when hormones start to kick in etc. Most children aren't fully aware of their sexuality until early teens or just before that, be they heterosexual or homosexual. Certainly no-one I knew paid any attention to girls in Primary School anyway.
Of course there are bound to be exceptions.
Miss Willow: Very, very interesting post. Hearing your viewpoint on the issue really brought even more to the episode to me and I may very well rewatch the episode because of your response> I would not have rewatched it otherwise, because at first viewing I did not care for it too much.
To anyone who may be interested in seeing autism tackled in science-fiction: There is a show that started this summer on SyFy in the US called Alphas. It is a show about a group of people with superpowers and one of the members of the team is autistic. I have not seen it dealt with directly in a sci-fi show before with a main character and I was pleasantly surprised with how well they handle it on the show.
Hi lostinchina - nice to meet you
Your theory was also a very interesting theory and I enjoyed reading your post too.
'Night Terrors' was thought-provoking and intelligently written... and entertaining to boot. Everything a good Doctor Who episode should be
Looking forward to chatting with you again
Hi Fez
I wish I could remember the link but I do recall Mark Gatiss stating in an interview that George was written with special needs in mind. I don't think the needs were of an ASD nature but yes, more in line with OCD.
As for the discussions about a gay /autistic subtext; as a person with autism I can say that the analogies, to me anyway, fit more with autism than a gay agenda although I can certainly see how that would also fit. Just in my experience, the fear of rejection, uncertainty about "strange" / scary people, the inability to express emptions etc. is more in line with autism.
Hi Medan 74
'NT' was certainly very interesting and there were many behavioural parallels with ASDs.
Thank you for letting us know about Alphas. I'll have a look at some clips on You-Tube if I can.
Isn't it also rumoured that the character of Sheldon Cooper (of the wonderful 'Big Bang Theory') has Asperger's Syndrome?
Hi Samster - lovely to meet you
I very much agree with you - the analogies fit perfectly.
My Eldest Daughter has moderate autism and has difficulties in not only expressing her emotions but coping with the emotions of others. My Youngest Daughter has Asperger's Syndrome and experiences similar difficulties.
I haven't had the chance to chat about NT with my Youngest (she watched it with her father at his place) but she certainly shares the anxieties about night-times that George has, especially if she is particularly anxious about something else totally unrelated to her night-time fear (usually about something happening during the day that she hasn't been able to express her feelings about). No posters with human or animals in their rooms - for my Girls, they literally come to life, which I can only imagine must be terrifying. They both have very vivid dreams - in fact, Youngest has such vivid dreams, she is able to draw them onto the Flipnotes function on the Nintendo DSi.
I also found how quickly George felt at ease with the Doctor very interesting. OH and I feel that they related to each other very well.
Yeh. If he had autism he would probably have less compulsive behaviour and more strange behaviour when interacting with other people.
To me he seemed to have a mixture of OCD and anxiety.
I'm not so sure it starts then - if I remember my childhood properly then I was attracted to girls from age 6 or 7 (indeed, my first vaguely sexual experience was well before my teens) and most definitely not attracted to boys.
Even allowing for some societal bias there, you would probably know within yourself how you were going to swing at an early age even if you didn't consciously connect it with a 'sexual orientation' until later. Not being gay though, I don't know for sure.