Unless you have a double sided player (do such things even exist?) there is no consumer advantage to a DVD18 vs 2xDVD9 as you have to get up and flip the disk, and as the manufacture of a DVD18 is basically glueing together 2 x DVD9s there is no real cost advantage either, except in the packaging.
I think if a series can be sent out in a 4 disc set instead of 8,then thats an advantage for both consumer and releasing company.
It's certainly possible to save about half the packaging space.
I think if a series can be sent out in a 4 disc set instead of 8,then thats an advantage for both consumer and releasing company.
It's certainly possible to save about half the packaging space.
Although sadly the disc itself is more fagile and prone to errors and failing.
then it falls to PS3 to win the fight. By the end of 2006, how many people will have bought a PS3 compared to those who will have bought a HD-DVD player?
Depends how much cheaper an HD-DVD player is compared to a PS3.
I think if a series can be sent out in a 4 disc set instead of 8,then thats an advantage for both consumer and releasing company.
It's certainly possible to save about half the packaging space.
Although they could probably charge more for a 8 disc set than a 4 disc set and 100 to 1 the difference between a 4 disc set and a 8 wouldn't be just cost!
Depends how much cheaper an HD-DVD player is compared to a PS3.
Probably a lot cheaper I'd imagine...
The price difference between the blu-ray and hd-dvd player prices will be more important than the ps3. Games console sales are notoriously low when they are full price. It could be over two years before the PS3 really starts shifting in large numbers and it'd have to be sub-£200.
If you can buy an HD-DVD player for £<70 at that point the PS3 won't make much difference.
I'll just keep saving my cash, by the time I can afford a decent system Holographic discs with 1Tb + capacity should be out.
I agree! Holographic discs are really impressive, and one of the few recent technological 'leaps' (as opposed to pathetic baby steps).
According to the developers (InPhase) the technology is due for commercial release in 2006. The first version will hold 300GB, have a transfer rate of 20MB/s with an archive life of over 30 years. This capacity will be increased to over 1TB by 2009. This would be a much better solution that either of the 2 current proposed standards.
However, if I had to choose between BluRay and HD-DVD then I would choose HD-DVD (purely to p*ss off Sony, who I think are a despicable company).
I would be so happy if BluRay turns out to be another Betamax for them.
I think the public will be very wary of both formats. As you say Holographic discs out in a year. Technology just getting better by the month. With DVD under 10 years old, I think people will hang on a few more years and wait for a better advancment.
If you can buy an HD-DVD player for £<70 at that point the PS3 won't make much difference.
Why on earth do you think HD-DVD players will be under £70 within two years? This is is a completely new technology - it may be backwards compatible, but its not a twaek to DVD, despite the name.
Players will start with high end home cinema devices, and then fall, but it was five or six years before DVD players got under £100 and take up of this technology will be a lot slower as you need a HDTV to use it.
Why on earth do you think HD-DVD players will be under £70 within two years? This is is a completely new technology - it may be backwards compatible, but its not a twaek to DVD, despite the name.
Players will start with high end home cinema devices, and then fall, but it was five or six years before DVD players got under £100 and take up of this technology will be a lot slower as you need a HDTV to use it.
Why on earth do you think HD-DVD players will be under £70 within two years? This is is a completely new technology - it may be backwards compatible, but its not a twaek to DVD, despite the name.
Players will start with high end home cinema devices, and then fall, but it was five or six years before DVD players got under £100 and take up of this technology will be a lot slower as you need a HDTV to use it.
I didn't say that. I said over two years. I did also say "if".
The point I was making, the figures and timescale are irrelevant, is that I do not believe the PS3 will not fall in price as much as standalone players - so its effect will be diminishing over time.
No reason for it to be that I can see. The only people in the market for one in the first year or two will be those early adopters with HD televisions. Non mass market products with high R&D costs always start expensice. BluRay recorders are ~£1,000 in Japan.
I didn't say that. I said over two years. I did also say "if".
The point I was making, the figures and timescale are irrelevant, is that I do not believe the PS3 will not fall in price as much as standalone players - so its effect will be diminishing over time.
True, I doubt teh PS2 effect is significant for DVD now, but it sure as hell gave the format a kick start. And that could be crucial.
PS3 will sell by the bucketload from day 1. Not to kids - they will have to wait until it gets cheap, but to adults who after all are the market for HDTV and BluRay.
I've heard it will be considerably cheaper than bluray. I'm also assuming if it wants to win the public over it's going to have to be wallet friendly. The discs are meant to the same proce as current DVDs for example. The Hardware won't be super cheap, but I doubt they'll be as pricey as Bluray.
I think it will be the other way around - BluRay has a manufacturer who can and will subsidise the PS3 because it makes money on game sales. HD-DVD makers will have only the retail price to make money out of. I don't see how they will be able to match PS3 prices for some considerable time.
BluRay drives will instantly have a volume of production for PS3 that will dwarf HD-DVD manufacture, and as we all know, scale is what leads to lower prices.
It's starting to look like HD-DVD may fold - as suggested by this article.
Studio support is shifting toward Blu-ray, partly because of the PS3 factor, and partly because Blu-ray's copy protection is seen as being far more secure. Microsoft wants consumers to be able to rip HD-DVDs onto a hard drive and pump them wirelessly around the house - albeit using advanced DRM technology. This idea terrifies the studios.
HD-DVD has the benefit of coming out sooner but people are likely to stear clear of buying a stand alown unit that could become obsolete. But with the PS3 holding a Blu-Ray player and likely to sell millions of units people will be more likely to buy the PS3 and help Blu-Ray with it being one of the next gen consoles which people know Sony are not simply going to abandon as that would have disasterous consequences for the company.
I can see Blu-Ray taking the lead but we will most likely see a combined hd player/recorder in the long run.
It's certainly true that having the PC as the repository for all video in the home is a key part of Gates' plans. If BluRay bloacked that that would be a very big deal for them.
But 5 out of 6 of the big studios supporting BluRay woudl appear to make it game, set and match... point, at least!
If you can buy an HD-DVD player for £<70 at that point the PS3 won't make much difference.
By the time the next HD DVD or Blu-Ray DVD players reach 70.00 GBP at your local supermarket, the format war would have already been decided by the consumer and movie studios!
Studio support is shifting toward Blu-ray, partly because of the PS3 factor, and partly because Blu-ray's copy protection is seen as being far more secure. Microsoft wants consumers to be able to rip HD-DVDs onto a hard drive and pump them wirelessly around the house - albeit using advanced DRM technology. This idea terrifies the studios.
And is a reason why the public might be put off by bluray...
And is a reason why the public might be put off by bluray...
There is also reason why people are put off by HD-DVD. Like the article says we want an optical disc format that lasts for years and recording/storing 100GB max compared to just 45GB max is a major issue, as you can NEVER have too much space.
I am sure adequate copy protection is in place for Blu-Ray DVD, and you will be able to stream Blu-Ray DVD content wirelessly. (if the movie studio wants to assign these rights) But the last thing we want is the HD-DVD DRM technology to be cracked and a free for all for ALL online users! This is why Blu-Ray watermark technology is needed.
There is also reason why people are put off by HD-DVD. Like the article says we want an optical disc format that lasts for years and recording/storing 100GB max compared to just 45GB max is a major issue, as you can NEVER have too much space.
45GB is more than enough for an HD movie plus extras. Even on a Higher capacity bluray disc, there'd be left over space.
45GB is more than enough for an HD movie plus extras. Even on a Higher capacity bluray disc, there'd be left over space.
We have had this conversation before!
The 45 GB is the highest tested multiple layers for HD-DVD. Its Theoretical limit is only 60GB. Its dual layer is only 30GB! Given that most HD movies at the start MIGHT BE single-layer: the difference could be 1080p to 1080i and more less compressed (better) audio on Blu-Ray.
Blu-Ray highest tested multiple layers is 200GB; with Blu-Ray DVDRW dual layer being 100GB. In short Blu-Ray wins now and it's far more future proof.
Even if you are convinced that HD-DVD's 15GB (single layer) or 30GB (dual layer) may be good enough for HD movies, it's not good for storing/recording space. Why buy a single layer HD-DVDRW (15GB) when single layer Blu-Ray DVDRW can do (25GB). Or dual layer Blu-Ray RW (50GB) compared to dual-layer HD-DVD at only 30GB.
HD-DVD Theoretical limit is 60GB, while Blu-Ray Theoretical limit is at 200GB! In the future when we are storing larger files or recoding HDTV material this will become extremely significant. I know I rather buy 200GB discs worth of recording material compared to 60GB.
Comments
It's certainly possible to save about half the packaging space.
Although sadly the disc itself is more fagile and prone to errors and failing.
Depends how much cheaper an HD-DVD player is compared to a PS3.
Probably a lot cheaper I'd imagine...
Although they could probably charge more for a 8 disc set than a 4 disc set and 100 to 1 the difference between a 4 disc set and a 8 wouldn't be just cost!
The price difference between the blu-ray and hd-dvd player prices will be more important than the ps3. Games console sales are notoriously low when they are full price. It could be over two years before the PS3 really starts shifting in large numbers and it'd have to be sub-£200.
If you can buy an HD-DVD player for £<70 at that point the PS3 won't make much difference.
According to the developers (InPhase) the technology is due for commercial release in 2006. The first version will hold 300GB, have a transfer rate of 20MB/s with an archive life of over 30 years. This capacity will be increased to over 1TB by 2009. This would be a much better solution that either of the 2 current proposed standards.
However, if I had to choose between BluRay and HD-DVD then I would choose HD-DVD (purely to p*ss off Sony, who I think are a despicable company).
I would be so happy if BluRay turns out to be another Betamax for them.
Significantly more expensive, I'd imagine. PS3 prices are not announced yet, but with XBox 360 at £279 I can't see it can be more than £299.
First gen HD-DVD I would expect to be in the £500 range.
Why on earth do you think HD-DVD players will be under £70 within two years? This is is a completely new technology - it may be backwards compatible, but its not a twaek to DVD, despite the name.
Players will start with high end home cinema devices, and then fall, but it was five or six years before DVD players got under £100 and take up of this technology will be a lot slower as you need a HDTV to use it.
Er, holographic mass storage devices for use by commercial broadcasters in their playout suites out in a year.
As far as I can tell, the holographic medium is read/write, but there is no way to duplicate media, even if user players were on the horizon?
Wait by all means, but I'd quite like HD video on disk now, not in 10 years.
Maybe not, but I think Sony might give away a lot in the PS3.
As a Home Cinema fan, I'll probably buy an additional ultimate Sony Blu-Ray player/recorder; once the format is off the block.
It will be cheaper from the outset.
I didn't say that. I said over two years. I did also say "if".
The point I was making, the figures and timescale are irrelevant, is that I do not believe the PS3 will not fall in price as much as standalone players - so its effect will be diminishing over time.
No reason for it to be that I can see. The only people in the market for one in the first year or two will be those early adopters with HD televisions. Non mass market products with high R&D costs always start expensice. BluRay recorders are ~£1,000 in Japan.
Why do you think HD-DVD would buck the trend?
True, I doubt teh PS2 effect is significant for DVD now, but it sure as hell gave the format a kick start. And that could be crucial.
PS3 will sell by the bucketload from day 1. Not to kids - they will have to wait until it gets cheap, but to adults who after all are the market for HDTV and BluRay.
BluRay drives will instantly have a volume of production for PS3 that will dwarf HD-DVD manufacture, and as we all know, scale is what leads to lower prices.
http://www.cnet.com/4520-10602_1-5618766-1.html (Although the on sale date has since slipped to Q1 2006, the price is still correct).
So in March it will be £1,000 for HD-DVD (assuming the usual dollar=pound on CE) or £300 for BluRay. Let me think....
Studio support is shifting toward Blu-ray, partly because of the PS3 factor, and partly because Blu-ray's copy protection is seen as being far more secure. Microsoft wants consumers to be able to rip HD-DVDs onto a hard drive and pump them wirelessly around the house - albeit using advanced DRM technology. This idea terrifies the studios.
I can see Blu-Ray taking the lead but we will most likely see a combined hd player/recorder in the long run.
It's certainly true that having the PC as the repository for all video in the home is a key part of Gates' plans. If BluRay bloacked that that would be a very big deal for them.
But 5 out of 6 of the big studios supporting BluRay woudl appear to make it game, set and match... point, at least!
By the time the next HD DVD or Blu-Ray DVD players reach 70.00 GBP at your local supermarket, the format war would have already been decided by the consumer and movie studios!
And is a reason why the public might be put off by bluray...
There is also reason why people are put off by HD-DVD. Like the article says we want an optical disc format that lasts for years and recording/storing 100GB max compared to just 45GB max is a major issue, as you can NEVER have too much space.
I am sure adequate copy protection is in place for Blu-Ray DVD, and you will be able to stream Blu-Ray DVD content wirelessly. (if the movie studio wants to assign these rights) But the last thing we want is the HD-DVD DRM technology to be cracked and a free for all for ALL online users! This is why Blu-Ray watermark technology is needed.
45GB is more than enough for an HD movie plus extras. Even on a Higher capacity bluray disc, there'd be left over space.
We have had this conversation before!
The 45 GB is the highest tested multiple layers for HD-DVD. Its Theoretical limit is only 60GB. Its dual layer is only 30GB! Given that most HD movies at the start MIGHT BE single-layer: the difference could be 1080p to 1080i and more less compressed (better) audio on Blu-Ray.
Blu-Ray highest tested multiple layers is 200GB; with Blu-Ray DVDRW dual layer being 100GB. In short Blu-Ray wins now and it's far more future proof.
Even if you are convinced that HD-DVD's 15GB (single layer) or 30GB (dual layer) may be good enough for HD movies, it's not good for storing/recording space. Why buy a single layer HD-DVDRW (15GB) when single layer Blu-Ray DVDRW can do (25GB). Or dual layer Blu-Ray RW (50GB) compared to dual-layer HD-DVD at only 30GB.
HD-DVD Theoretical limit is 60GB, while Blu-Ray Theoretical limit is at 200GB! In the future when we are storing larger files or recoding HDTV material this will become extremely significant. I know I rather buy 200GB discs worth of recording material compared to 60GB.