Cilla, ITV, tngt, looking forward to this... But

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  • sixtynotoutsixtynotout Posts: 1,142
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    culttvfan wrote: »
    As I said in my previous post, she can indeed do all the things you mention, but not very well.

    As for talent, it consists of what is innate and what is acquired. For most who want to become an accomplished actor, formal training at a drama school is a prerequisite. Occasionally, an exceptional individual with a keen intellect and inquiring mind (and frequently academically gifted) comes along who manages to circumvent this well trodden path, such as, for instance, Ian McKellan, who only really started to take acting seriously as a by-product of his love of Shakespeare whilst studying at Cambridge.

    Unfortunately, none of the above qualities apply to the badly spoken and poorly educated Ms Smith, who has acquired a sizable following from a certain, unenlightened type of viewer, particularly those keen on soaps, who think, misguidedly, that what she does constitutes good acting,

    I will join the others in saying what a patronising nasty post this is. So we're all unenlightened and soap fans are we if we like Sheridan? Michael Cain and many others who you consider 'badly spoken' haven't done too badly despite having working class accents.
  • sixtynotoutsixtynotout Posts: 1,142
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    BellaFiga wrote: »
    No carbon! That was clearly an error. Oh god I remember typing with carbon and having to correct both the original and the carbon...OH GOD

    It was a nightmare wasn't it? Trying to rub out the carbon and ending up having to start all over again. The Company Secretary's secretary (what a mouthful) had an electric typewriter, it was the height of sophistication. As a lowly office junior I could only look at it and dream. ;-)
  • mimicolemimicole Posts: 50,917
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    I'm no fan of Cilla Black but I like Sheridan Smith so I intend to watch the rest of it. I caught up with the first episode earlier on. :)
  • barbelerbarbeler Posts: 23,827
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    I remember my parents' sheer horror and disbelief when they heard Cilla's nails-on-a-blackboard screeching on Anyone Who Had a Heart :D

    One or two songs suited her nasal squawkings, but they were few and far between. Despite that, it hasn't detracted one little bit from my enjoyment of the show.
  • hansuehansue Posts: 14,227
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    It was a nightmare wasn't it? Trying to rub out the carbon and ending up having to start all over again. The Company Secretary's secretary (what a mouthful) had an electric typewriter, it was the height of sophistication. As a lowly office junior I could only look at it and dream. ;-)

    Just watching it now. Brought back memories when I saw them typing on an Imperial 66. That was what I started on and then they got an Imperial 70 - wow. Carbons were awful and how many times did you put round the wrong way!!! How much easier it is nowadays with computers. You don't even have to type properly. I started as a junior and had to make the tea and coffee. It was like slave labour but gave you a good grounding for life.
  • culttvfanculttvfan Posts: 2,800
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    I will join the others in saying what a patronising nasty post this is. So we're all unenlightened and soap fans are we if we like Sheridan? Michael Cain and many others who you consider 'badly spoken' haven't done too badly despite having working class accents.

    You seem to be confusing bad speech with working class/cockney accents, of which I have made no criticism at all. I actually rather like Michael Caine. I'm not suggesting you do this, but if you want to bore yourself, if you trawl back far enough to a favourite films thread in the movies section some time ago you'll see I have The Ipcress File at number one. Caine's speech is pretty clear despite his accent unlike, say, Bradley Walsh, whose speech is slovenly, words not being formed properly and often merging into one long unintelligible mush.

    Sheridan Smith isn't as bad as that but there is still much room for improvement. Of people I know who like her, they do tend to be at the Soaposcenti end of the viewing spectrum but, as people here have said, she's won awards, so presumably not everyone who likes her fits that demographic.
  • LadyOfShalottLadyOfShalott Posts: 3,017
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    Torch81 wrote: »
    Me neither which is why I never watched it. The generally positive feedback does make me think its worth giving it a try though.

    Oh, do give it a try. Just imagine it's about someone called Joan or Eileen or something. It's a cracking story with great characters.
  • sixtynotoutsixtynotout Posts: 1,142
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    hansue wrote: »
    Just watching it now. Brought back memories when I saw them typing on an Imperial 66. That was what I started on and then they got an Imperial 70 - wow. Carbons were awful and how many times did you put round the wrong way!!! How much easier it is nowadays with computers. You don't even have to type properly. I started as a junior and had to make the tea and coffee. It was like slave labour but gave you a good grounding for life.

    We had a staff canteen and a tea lady so that wasn't one of my jobs, but something I always remember as a very naïve 16 year old was walking to the post office for each months national insurance stamps (and then sticking them on the cards yuk). I was given a company cheque to pay for them but anyone could have bashed me and taken the stamps. For those much younger than me, it was like buying postage stamps and could easily have been sold on. I also did wages a few years later and we just locked the door whilst we counted it out and then walked to the different departments, handing over the cash and getting a signature. I don't know if people were more honest then or we were just a bit daft!
  • sorrellsorrell Posts: 603
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    culttvfan wrote: »
    You seem to be confusing bad speech with working class/cockney accents, of which I have made no criticism at all. I actually rather like Michael Caine. I'm not suggesting you do this, but if you want to bore yourself, if you trawl back far enough to a favourite films thread in the movies section some time ago you'll see I have The Ipcress File at number one. Caine's speech is pretty clear despite his accent unlike, say, Bradley Walsh, whose speech is slovenly, words not being formed properly and often merging into one long unintelligible mush.

    Sheridan Smith isn't as bad as that but there is still much room for improvement. Of people I know who like her, they do tend to be at the Soaposcenti end of the viewing spectrum but, as people here have said, she's won awards, so presumably not everyone who likes her fits that demographic.

    I think you may have spelled your name wrong!
  • Fibromite59Fibromite59 Posts: 22,518
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    valkay wrote: »
    True I married a Catholic and we had to have our son baptised as a Catholic, however it wasn't a problem as my wife wasn't a very strong Catholic and rarely went to mass and our son wasn't brought up as Catholic.
    However back to the programme, I enjoyed it but more as a drama rather than a docupic about Cilla. There were a few anachronisms in it. Whether or not Cilla actually kissed a black lad it would be unlikely, as white girls didn't go with black lads in the 60s, any which did were called sluts and slags. Also men didn't hug each other, even family, a handshake was considered sufficient. The rest of it was almost perfect, the clothes, the typing pool, the hairstyles. Was Betty Marsden, if she existed?, related to Gerry Marsden.?

    Yes, Beryl Marsden (not Betty) did exsist but she wasn't related to Gerry Marsden as far as I know. Beryl Marsden had a good voice and had a very minor hit with a song called Breakaway which was a cover of an American hit by Irma Thomas from the early 60's.

    You are right about men not hugging each other, in the 60's even a father and son or two brothers would have shaken hands with each other rather than hugging. I picked up on that too.
  • raymartin01raymartin01 Posts: 1,898
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    Yes, he may have been the DJ there, but he has almost certainly fabricated the rest of the story. Most people do like to make themselves bigger cogs in the machine than they actually are.

    Quote from the lady herself: She recalled how she was performing at the Cavern Club in 1963 as Lennon looked on with Beatles manager Brian Epstein and local DJ Bob Wooler. "Bob said, 'She's one of the worst singers I've heard,' but John Lennon said he ought to sign me up," she recalled.

    "And thank God he did because I wouldn't be here today."

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/705703.stm
  • TRIPSTRIPS Posts: 3,714
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    Yes, Beryl Marsden (not Betty) did exsist but she wasn't related to Gerry Marsden as far as I know. Beryl Marsden had a good voice and had a very minor hit with a song called Breakaway which was a cover of an American hit by Irma Thomas from the early 60's.

    You are right about men not hugging each other, in the 60's even a father and son or two brothers would have shaken hands with each other rather than hugging. I picked up on that too.
    Beryl sang at the Mathew street festival about 4 yrs ago. i knew all about her being big around the time of the Beatles so stayed for about 10 min. she was a good singer but a few yrs before my time so went off to watch someone else at another stage.
  • TRIPSTRIPS Posts: 3,714
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    macavity77 wrote: »
    Sheridan Smith was very authentic as Cilla. She seemed to capture her personality and mannerisms very well and had a credible singing voice. It was nice also that there is a genuine love story at the centre of it all and I have no complaints about Cilla not wanting lots of sex scenes in it - she is a real person after all and who would? it was new and not a 'talent' show which was great.

    I have however quite a lot of niggles about this. Where was the Scouse accent? It was almost entirely missing. Occasionally it popped up in the bit parts which only served to showed how bad it was in most of the main roles. Rain washed, romantically moonlit and beautifully clean, Scotland Road looked straight out of the West End rather than somewhere that was gradually demolished in slum clearance. There were few cars but those we saw were polished and clearly cherished in a way that they would not have been at the time. There were no buses, barely any cigarettes and no smuts or smoke from the ubiquitous coal fires of he time. I am old enough to remember the North in the 60s and this was not authentic enough. Where did they find those lads to play The Beatles? No accents and no personality either. And finally could they not find a real blond actor or find Aneurin Whatsit a decent hairdresser? Like Cilla or not she definitely did not deserve someone who looked like a young Jimmy Saville.

    Saw many plays and movies about the Beatles and only ever seen one person come close to passing off as one of them. Mark McGann , Mark is still excellent playing Lennon but 22 yrs ago his performance in Imagine at the Play House in Liverpool was incredible. curtains opened and the group are dressed in the Sgt Pepper outfits. McGann chewing and singing All you need is Love felt like Lennon was on the stage. Working Class made my hair stand up. rest of the cast were awful. Went to see Imagine again a few yrs back with a different cast and story line, enjoyed it but none came close to passing off as one of the Beatles. bit of a mystery that. so many people have tried but ive only seen McGann come close.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 979
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    I quite enjoyed it. Some of the acting was a bit hammy, and, as a born and bred Scouser, I concur the accents are AWFUL in places (back then they spoke something me and my brother have nicknamed Old Scouse, which is a bit posher and a bit Lancastrian. Oxymoronic I know!)But seeing the recreations of old Liverpool was nice.

    'Old" Scouse was more lyrical and less gutteral , nasal yes..they used to say it was a mix of Irish,Welsh,Scots and cataarh. Being posh Scouser..we lived just beyond the docks ....I was nevertheless instantly clocked in "foreign" parts.
    No, no lad ever swore in front of a girl and as him indoors and my cousins came from nearer to the city, I got used to being called..."queeeen". I don't remember LA being said every 5 mins either.
    There wasn't just a religious divide but a class city divide so much so my cousin has elocution lessons so she'd have a better chance of an office job.
    Yup I thought El Kabala was a coffee bar up Bold Street which was and still is very central shopping thoroughfare.
    They have done their best with location but obviously the bomb sites are mostly gone;-)
    Talking to a lady today who lived in the same road as the Whites and she is disappointed at the portrayal of Mrs White...who sold second hand clothes in the market and was known for bursting into song at the drop of a hat. Her comment was "she couldn't sing either".
    Well nice or not, talented or not Villa certainly carved a career and was sensible to move from 'singing to presenting. She may have murdered "Anyone who had a heart" but I remember liking "The look of love" very much.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 979
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    Mark1974 wrote: »
    Does anyone know which pub Bobby and his brother were having a drink in?

    It looked suspiciously like the Volunteer Canteen in Waterloo.
    Ah the Volly!,,,
  • boksboxboksbox Posts: 4,572
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    What a strange thing to say. It is a matter of record that Bob Wooler WAS the Cavern DJ until 1967, and he DID give Ms Black her first singing gig. He was a major figure in the Merseybeat scene - he famously had a fist fight with John Lennon at Paul McCartney's 21st birthday party - so he certainly had no need to build his part up, so to speak. Try Googling him, read his obituary.

    I meant that I don't believe his account, no one goes around remembering people's conversations just in case they become famous later, seems a classic case of embellishment to me.
  • Johnny_CashJohnny_Cash Posts: 2,564
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    sorrell wrote: »
    I think you may have spelled your name wrong!

    Excellent, and agreed.
  • Toby LaRhoneToby LaRhone Posts: 12,916
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    TRIPS wrote: »
    Saw many plays and movies about the Beatles and only ever seen one person come close to passing off as one of them. Mark McGann , Mark is still excellent playing Lennon but 22 yrs ago his performance in Imagine at the Play House in Liverpool was incredible. curtains opened and the group are dressed in the Sgt Pepper outfits. McGann chewing and singing All you need is Love felt like Lennon was on the stage. Working Class made my hair stand up. rest of the cast were awful. Went to see Imagine again a few yrs back with a different cast and story line, enjoyed it but none came close to passing off as one of the Beatles. bit of a mystery that. so many people have tried but ive only seen McGann come close.
    There's an actor called Scott Handy playing a vicar (?) in the current series of The Village.
    I've definitely seen him play a very good John Lennon lookalike.
    He's quite facially similar.
    I can't recall the film or programme though.
  • Janet43Janet43 Posts: 8,008
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    That's what I liked about her voice. Its the one thing that I think Sheridan didn't get right with the singing voice (I liked her singing by the way) but it was just a little too 'softened around the edges'. Cilla's voice was unique and very different to anything else at the time. After the nose job - her voice went all weak and reedy.

    Still can't stand Cilla though.
    She said from the start that she wasn't going to try to do an impersonation of Cilla, just to get the flavour of how she sings/sang, which she did brilliantly.
  • jsmith99jsmith99 Posts: 20,382
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    culttvfan wrote: »
    .........................Sheridan Smith...................... Of people I know who like her, they do tend to be at the Soaposcenti end of the viewing spectrum.......................

    How terribly, terribly witty. Truly worthy of the Bloomsbury Group .... you weren't a member yourself, were you?
  • fozzie74fozzie74 Posts: 284
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    mal2pool wrote: »
    I always thought Paul wrote Love of the Loved especially for Cilla.

    No, love of the loved was just an early unused lennon/mccartney composition, it was "step inside love" that he wrote just for Cilla.
  • barbelerbarbeler Posts: 23,827
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    jsmith99 wrote: »
    How terribly, terribly witty. Truly worthy of the Bloomsbury Group .... you weren't a member yourself, were you?
    Probably a RADA-trained thesbian - of the Withnail variety.
  • fozzie74fozzie74 Posts: 284
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    Ella Nut wrote: »
    No. The Beatles were performing Love of the Loved before Cilla even knew the song. Paul did however write It's For You and Step Inside Love for Cilla.

    ack i see someone already answered, sorry for posting above!!!!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 292
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    It would have but portraying her as an occasionally homophobic, regularly racist and abusive diva beyond her station wouldn't make for endearing material. Although a scene of her refusing to be served by "one of those dirty p@k!s, I'm not eating food put down in front of me by someone who sh1ts in a ditch and wipes their @rs3 with leaves, I wanna word with the mannajurr!" would have made it a lot more realistic.

    I´m surprised that a lot of people think that ´Cilla´shows her positively, as i thought the oposite..it shows her as quite a self obsessed, shallow person, who isnt very nice..and who turns the smiles and humble act on when she wants to, but underneath the surface is quite an unattractive person.
    Perhaps, as i knew someone who worked with her, and had told me that she was quite a repulsive character, perhaps i picked up more on the subtle undertone, which i think Sheridan does very well..ie the fake turned on smile and humble little girl act,
  • Fibromite59Fibromite59 Posts: 22,518
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    fozzie74 wrote: »
    No, love of the loved was just an early unused lennon/mccartney composition, it was "step inside love" that he wrote just for Cilla.

    "Step Inside Love" was written by Paul for Cilla to sing as the theme song for her TV series in the 60's. He then wrote "Something Tells Me" for her next TV series. The series were a sort of variety show and were shown weekly on BBC TV.
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