Holby City: Has it lost its way?

DeschanelDeschanel Posts: 8,732
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I've been thinking, well, for the majority of the year, really, that Holby City has changed, and not for the better. It probably happened around the time the show lost several good characters and changed Exec Producers.

I think one of Holby's strengths has always been its strong characters with varying shades of personalities. We lost Malick, Chantelle, Hanssen, Michael, Chrissie and Gemma in a short space of time (some of which were great characters, while others not so much; however, they all had different personalities, with different strengths and weaknesses that gelled with the rest of the cast). Now, we have Raf, Amy, Colette, Guy, Zosia, and Dominic, who seem to display similar obnoxious, egotistical, nasty characteristics.

Adele, IMO, is the best of the newbies. She's warm, fun, kinda over eager - the opposite of the other newbies. I think she works great on Darwin with Mo, Jonny, Jac and Elliott. In fact, that set has the best characters, with a good mix of personalities. I felt Mo was hovering in storyline limbo for a long time, but Adele has given her some renewed life.

AAU is a bit of mess. Ric doesn't belong on this ward at all. He fitted in great on Keller, which is where he should have stayed. It's also quite annoying how he and Serena (who's turned into a great character) rotate duty on AAU during the actors breaks. They work well together, and were only just starting to develop their relationship, but now we rarely ever see them share a scene.

Harry the Cad works best when he's surrounded by characters that can balance out his caddish personality, like Mary-Claire. Throwing him into a triangle with the arrogant, ego-driven, self-important Raf and his baby obsessed wife Amy has been a disaster. It's highlighted all of Harry's negative traits, while turning him into a bit of a victim of bully-boy Raf. More could be done to make him more likeable. Raf and Amy are two characters I struggle to muster any sympathy for. They were thrown into a major story before viewers could care about them. Colette is another cold, charmless character who started out quite wooden and monotone. Her saving grace seems to be Fletch. I think they have chemistry, and she seems to come alive around him.

Keller is the worst set of all. I've never been a big fan of Sacha (I think he's a bit of a drip), but switching him and Ric was a mistake. He's surrounded by terrible characters. Keller lost Malick, Chantelle and Michael, and gained Zosia and Dominic. Worst trade off ever. Dominic is the worst character I've ever seen in this show. He has a vile personality, and I find it unbelievable that Arthur would stay flat sharing with this obnoxious, hostile, douche. Zosia is another cold, egotistical, hostile character, who I fail to care anything about. They are so unlike-able and unprofessional. The amount of questionable things both have done and still they have their jobs is unbelievable. I think Arthur could be a great character, but he needs better people to interact with. Keller is also without a regular nurse, and I think that hurts the ward, too. I like Essie, but she's recurring, so she's not around as much as needed.

Then there's Guy. I know it was always going to be a challenge following on from the awesome Hanssen, but Guy is seriously dull and charmless. They should have brought Connie back and made her CEO. He's another character who I couldn't care less about.

But, it's not just the characters, but the storylines. They've all become a bit too soapie recently. Triangles, pregnancies and who's the daddy? plots. The only major stories that I've found interesting outside of the Darwin group is: Serena struggling to care for her mother who's battling vascular dementia, and Essie discovering her grandfather was a Nazi. Even the story with Ric helping Jess escape her violent husband wasn't as good as what it could have been.

Holby used to be topical and engaging. Now it's soap-lite with unlike-able characters dominating the show.

Does anyone feel the same, or is it just me?
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Comments

  • kitkat1971kitkat1971 Posts: 39,177
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    I think it has been going downhill since last Summer (the Mo breaking every rule in the book about pressuring the family into organ donation storyline was the first one I just felt was completely over the top) and the rot really set in at the beginning of season 16 last October.

    As you say, the lost several good characters (Hansenn, Malick, Spence, Chantelle) and the good ones that remained have either hardly been used (Mi and even more so Ric) or had complete overnight personality transplants (Jonny) or are just the subject of unrelenting misery (Jac and Elliot). None of the newbies have really worked with Adele being the best of a bad bunch and she's only bearable because of the connection to Mo. Raf could work I think, his character seems basically interesting and he's a good actor but they've landed him with the Harry rivalry and this dreadful baby plot.

    Darwin has got the best group of characters but I am fed up to my back teeth with the 'make jac as miserable as possible with an awful pregnancy with a sick baby, Jonny parading Bonnie around, custody case, mother reappearing and dying, giving up Emma and now being sent to Coventry for 'stealing' Elliot's job.

    I also hate how everybody has at least one or two personal connections to their colleagues (sibling, marriage, former lover, father etc). It is just totally unrealistic for what is supposed to be a work placed drama.

    Serena and Mr T really are the only bright spots.

    I can only think of season 5 or 6 (the last time it became totally soap based with everybody sleeping with everybody else) which has been worse in the history of the show.
  • soap-leasoap-lea Posts: 23,851
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    when they get rid of Zosia and serena and put elliot back in charge of darwin. if we could see more of ric too I'd be happy.

    Raf and Amy have been getting too much screen time for my liking but
    i do overall enjoy. think alex walkinshaw has been a good addition
  • chrisgwfcchrisgwfc Posts: 50
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    I think it has lost its way since the turn of the year. Between October and December last year they lost so many really good characters in a short space of time and brought in a number of replacements that simply haven't been of the same standard IMO. The other problem I felt was that most of them (Guy, Zosia, Dominic, Raf) were all given quite a lot of screen time straight away before I really cared for their characters. I know Jac had a lot of stuff during this period but I think other more established characters should have been used more during this settling down period before the new characters were involved in big storylines.

    The other changes I don't like is the move away from medical based stories to more soap opera style stuff. Every episode's main theme seems to be about who is sleeping with who or who has fallen out with who rather than focusing more on a medical based story. I think there are also too many characters who are alike. Most of the new characters are arrogant, self-important and a bit one dimensional whereas the characters they replaced such as Hanssen, Malick, Chantelle, Michael had many different faces.
  • meechyemoomeechyemoo Posts: 659
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    I can't bear Zosia. Just the stupidest character. She would have been on a final warning in the first week.
  • LaurawhittzLaurawhittz Posts: 873
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    Can't stand zoisa! Vile character god knows why everyone keeps covering for her!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,283
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    holby is still more watchable than casualty even with mrs b.
  • Sez_babeSez_babe Posts: 133,998
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    It's certainly changed but I'm still enjoying it.

    I'm so glad that it looks like Mr T will become a regular with the new Jac operation plan that has been discussed :)
  • soap-leasoap-lea Posts: 23,851
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    Sez_babe wrote: »
    It's certainly changed but I'm still enjoying it.

    I'm so glad that it looks like Mr T will become a regular with the new Jac operation plan that has been discussed :)

    me too always liked him even in his hollyoaks days and then emmerdale. :)
  • Sez_babeSez_babe Posts: 133,998
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    soap-lea wrote: »
    me too always liked him even in his hollyoaks days and then emmerdale. :)

    He was in Emmerdale? I didn't know that :) I knew he was in Brookside.
  • soap-leasoap-lea Posts: 23,851
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    Sez_babe wrote: »
    He was in Emmerdale? I didn't know that :) I knew he was in Brookside.

    yes you are right. me getting confused cos he looks like the guy who played biff in emmerdale.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 681
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    I think it has - the programme's real strength always lay in its ability to cast really good actors and mould them into excellent characters. Guy has been a very poor substiture for Hanson (I see him as a pale shadow of Tom Campbell-Gore) and Colette has, unfortunately, not worked at all. Zosia is played by an excellent actress but the character has been going on about the same subject for about a year now and is getting very, very irritating.

    I will be in the minority but I am fed up with Digby. He has shown very little character development and is a very one-note character. He needs to be partnered with someone much more dynamic.

    What I find hard to credit is the missed opportunities. Don Gilet is a wonderful actor, and even though he was given a cliched and quite unlikeable character was easily the most watchable person on screen. The bloke that Jac had the affair with (who was disastrously underwritten as Dom in ED) was really good in Holby. And I was really hoping that Ianto-Jones-from-Torchwood would settle in.

    I also think they've made a big mistake in de-mystifying Jac by dragging her through a very long and often quite tedious storyline.It almost ruined Johnny's character - something they appear to be trying to fix now. And why waste Mo? She is a great character and should have been given far more to do.

    The Jac storyline has been running since Tara's death last year, and the Zosia one has been dragging and dragging since way before last Christmas. And just when we're begging for some relief from all that, up pop the Smugs and Smugette, wasted even before they got properly introduced. Amy is a plot device more than a character, Raf has been allowed almost zero development, and then...then there's Harry.

    Even Sacha has suffered, his quirky and fun personality being compltely forgotten as he's been passed Michael's storylines. I miss Michael. Don't we all? We miss Ric and Elliott too, and they're still there!
  • emzi27emzi27 Posts: 1,113
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    I've always been a massive Holby city fan and this is the first time I've found myself not bothered about watching it.

    The actress who plays Collette is dreadful! I love Holby but I'm finding it difficult to enjoy with her still in it. Please tell me she leaves soon! She's just so wooden, no tone to her voice and really over acts. Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks this! It's like watching a school performance.

    I can't warm to Fletch or Essie either. He just doesn't suit the program and she has no chemistry with Sacha at all.

    On a positive note I do really like the Zosha storyline and I love Jac.

    The whole show is just missing something at the moment.
  • soap-leasoap-lea Posts: 23,851
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    emzi27 wrote: »
    I've always been a massive Holby city fan and this is the first time I've found myself not bothered about watching it.

    The actress who plays Collette is dreadful! I love Holby but I'm finding it difficult to enjoy with her still in it. Please tell me she leaves soon! She's just so wooden, no tone to her voice and really over acts. Please tell me I'm not the only one who thinks this! It's like watching a school performance.

    I can't warm to Fletch or Essie either. He just doesn't suit the program and she has no chemistry with Sacha at all.

    On a positive note I do really like the Zosha storyline and I love Jac.

    The whole show is just missing something at the moment.

    I think its her accent that makes he sound like she has no tone. I like her, she played a nurse in no angels and was really good so it must be the material
  • emzi27emzi27 Posts: 1,113
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    soap-lea wrote: »
    I think its her accent that makes he sound like she has no tone. I like her, she played a nurse in no angels and was really good so it must be the material

    Maybe. I've not seen her in anything else. She just sounds like she's reading from a script with no effort at all.
  • soap-leasoap-lea Posts: 23,851
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    emzi27 wrote: »
    Maybe. I've not seen her in anything else. She just sounds like she's reading from a script with no effort at all.

    you have missed out not seeing no angels. it was a few years ago. the main four nurses were collete and essie currently in holby. zoe in casualty and jo joyner - tanya in eastenders. was a few year ago now.
  • kitkat1971kitkat1971 Posts: 39,177
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    I actually think that DeLaMere has improved a lot in recent weeks. I suspect that she has altered her performance once she saw how she was coming across on screen (don't forget they film 4 or 5 months in advance so can't changer their acting style imeediately). I've seen her in lots of other things and always found her acting okay and even in Holby, I don't think she was actually acting badly, it is just that somehow she did,'t seem to fit in tonally with the show.

    I do agree that maybe they shoved the new characters down our throats too much. It used to be that you'd get big introductory episodes but then the characters would go on the back burner for a cpuple of months, only appearing in their professional capacity (if that makes sense) with the patient of the week story before getting a character driven arc after they'd been in 3 or 4 months by which point the audience has got used to them and hopefully want to know more about them.

    Hostorically there have been characters that appeared all the time right from the start so it'ns not totally new. It worked with Hansenn, it didn't with Sahira.
  • Sez_babeSez_babe Posts: 133,998
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    Harry just needs a decent storyline. When he's not pretending to be a huge player (completely a cover-up for his 'daddy-issues' - I'm calling it now!) he's a good character.

    Fletch has given Holby City, in my opinion, a bit of a lift. That's what he did when he arrived in Casualty and Alex is just brilliant. I didn't like the route they went with Fletch in Casualty but I think the way they are writing him suits him - I loved his line this week: "I've got 4 kids, almost divorced and I'm sure there's something else wrong with me!". Non-Casualty viewers probably don't know that when Fletch joined Casualty, just 2 years ago, he was new to the profession! He's done very well in just 2 years!!
  • kitkat1971kitkat1971 Posts: 39,177
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    The only time i've every found Harry bearable was that couple of weeks he spent up on Darwin interacting with Oliver and Jonny.
  • MsWilder11MsWilder11 Posts: 13,498
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    I gave up Holby a while ago, but I'm watching it by default because others in my house are still persevering with it so I find myself dipping back in just to see if anything's changed but the last times I've looked, everything's still exactly the same*

    + Secret Escapes is still a deranged mess and Digby's still hovering around her awkwardly asking if she's ok while Psycho Dom ignores everything and tells Digby to chill out.

    + Raf and Amy's tedious baby drama with him getting all uncomfortable and her constantly agonizing about whether "(he) can really do this".

    + Sacha and his love interest (can't remeber her name) going over that whole Nazi relative thing

    It just seems so soulless now and I really hate that I don't really give a damn about it anymore :(
  • DeschanelDeschanel Posts: 8,732
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    kitkat1971 wrote: »
    Darwin has got the best group of characters but I am fed up to my back teeth with the 'make jac as miserable as possible with an awful pregnancy with a sick baby, Jonny parading Bonnie around, custody case, mother reappearing and dying, giving up Emma and now being sent to Coventry for 'stealing' Elliot's job.

    I also hate how everybody has at least one or two personal connections to their colleagues (sibling, marriage, former lover, father etc). It is just totally unrealistic for what is supposed to be a work placed drama.
    I think they've overdone the misery for Jac, too. It was the wrong time to bring back her mother and kill her off so soon after Jac dealing with Emma's illness and the stuff with Jonny/Bonnie. They have a very complex history, and I don't think it had the impact it would have, had she turned up a few months later. I also really hated Jac turning into her mother by giving Jonny full custody of Emma. This was a good time to develop Jac, and considering how vocal she was about never making the same mistakes as her mother, severing ties with her baby is a step backwards.

    I hate, too, how all the newbies are suddenly related to each other in some way. It works with Adele and Mo being sisters, and I can just about buy Guy and Zosia being father/daughter (even if they shares similarities with Hanssen/Sahira), but to have Colette know them personally, then for Jesse to be Zosia's "uncle", and now Fletch shares history with Colette... It's too much. Too claustrophobic. It really alters what the show is supposed to be about.
    Sez_babe wrote: »
    Harry just needs a decent storyline. When he's not pretending to be a huge player (completely a cover-up for his 'daddy-issues' - I'm calling it now!) he's a good character.

    Fletch has given Holby City, in my opinion, a bit of a lift.
    I think Harry just needs a decent story that develops him outside of being the player. I think you're right about him having daddy issues, and I hope they develop that soon.

    IA about Fletch, too. He's the bright spark of AAU, IMO. He's had a positive influence on Colette, who I feel isn't as wooden as she was. But that doesn't really change much, when most of the characters around them are awful.
  • Sez_babeSez_babe Posts: 133,998
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    Deschanel wrote: »
    I think Harry just needs a decent story that develops him outside of being the player. I think you're right about him having daddy issues, and I hope they develop that soon.

    IA about Fletch, too. He's the bright spark of AAU, IMO. He's had a positive influence on Colette, who I feel isn't as wooden as she was. But that doesn't really change much, when most of the characters around them are awful.

    Yeh maybe a patient storyline that really gets to Harry - he's quite detached from patients, which I suppose it good but this is Holby City :D He gets along with most people yet he really doesn't like his dad - also that's interesting in itself: since when was a parent not proud of their son becoming a doctor?!!

    Harry reminds me a bit of Greg......who became interesting in his last 2 eps when we found out things from his past! Maybe Amy will lose the baby, Harry finds out that it's his and that is the breakthrough needed for Harry to change, or at least have some character development? It's a shame that Amy probably isn't long-term - I like the actress and loved her as Suzie in The Bill.

    Colette didn't do anything for her first 5 months or so - she'd turn up at the end of an episode and have a few lines with Guy - it's only now that she's being used. Fletch has brought a lot of life to AAU - I was quite surprised when I saw that he was going to be working there - I thought he'd work with Sacha etc. as AAU seems crowded with characters.
  • DeschanelDeschanel Posts: 8,732
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    Sez_babe wrote: »
    Harry reminds me a bit of Greg......who became interesting in his last 2 eps when we found out things from his past! It's a shame that Amy probably isn't long-term.

    I was quite surprised when I saw that he was going to be working there - I thought he'd work with Sacha etc. as AAU seems crowded with characters.
    I hadn't noticed the similarities with Greg. He was another character I didn't care for until his abuse was revealed. I was disappointed when he left. I don't want to have to wait until Harry leaves for him to get interesting. I really want to care about him now. I think exploring his obvious daddy issues would give the character some much needed direction. I also think he would benefit from working more with Serena/Ric, than Raf and his ego. I think Amy could have potential, but not in her current state. I hope this baby will have a positive influence on Harry. With Amy being recurring, it doesn't feel like she will be around past this baby story.

    Could you imagine Fletch on Keller with Sacha and Co.? Psycho Dom would be drooling over him, and unbalanced Zosia would be trying to seduce him, Digby would be flapping about in an anxious state trying to keep everything together, while clueless Sacha drifted about. This would be repeated every other episode.
    fiagomez wrote: »
    agree with everything you say deschanel and especially about hating how jac turned into her mother.
    Thanks, Fiagomez. :) I didn't understand Jac's reasoning for abandoning her baby, not after having to explain the truth about her mother swanning of to India and abandoning her. That has really shaped Jac's character, so for her to randomly do it to Emma, doesn't make much sense.
  • kitkat1971kitkat1971 Posts: 39,177
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    Deschanel wrote: »
    I think they've overdone the misery for Jac, too. It was the wrong time to bring back her mother and kill her off so soon after Jac dealing with Emma's illness and the stuff with Jonny/Bonnie. They have a very complex history, and I don't think it had the impact it would have, had she turned up a few months later. I also really hated Jac turning into her mother by giving Jonny full custody of Emma. This was a good time to develop Jac, and considering how vocal she was about never making the same mistakes as her mother, severing ties with her baby is a step backwards.

    I hate, too, how all the newbies are suddenly related to each other in some way. It works with Adele and Mo being sisters, and I can just about buy Guy and Zosia being father/daughter (even if they shares similarities with Hanssen/Sahira), but to have Colette know them personally, then for Jesse to be Zosia's "uncle", and now Fletch shares history with Colette... It's too much. Too claustrophobic. It really alters what the show is supposed to be about.


    I think Harry just needs a decent story that develops him outside of being the player. I think you're right about him having daddy issues, and I hope they develop that soon.

    IA about Fletch, too. He's the bright spark of AAU, IMO. He's had a positive influence on Colette, who I feel isn't as wooden as she was. But that doesn't really change much, when most of the characters around them are awful.

    As well as the family romantic connections mentioned, don't forget that in the last year we have also had Serena's ex husband turn up who promptly slept with Marie-Claire. Mary-Claire, Harry and Gemma were in a triangle of sorts. Jonny had already known Bonnie before she arroved and then dated her whilst ex lover was on the same ward. I'm sure at one stage last Autumn (before Spence and Chrissie had left) I worked out that every current character except Ric and Elliot had at least 2 personal relationships with other characters and Elliot had only just had his girlfriend, Sharon leav

    I don't actually have that big a problem with characters having known each other in a professional capacity from before Holby and having been 'work friends'. So, I don't really mind Guy having brought his old friends/colleagues Jesse and Colette in - that type of thing does happen professionally. Somebody senior gets a new position and wants rid of existing staff and get 'allies' in. I'm even just about prepared to believe he deliberately chose to come to Holby because he knew Zosia was already there and it was a way of getting back involved in her life. But Adele getting a job as HCA without Mo knowing, Edward turning up without Serena knowing, fletch and colette having history and not knowing the other was there, Bonnie turning up where Jonny was - it's all just too much.

    And Casualty is just as bad.
  • susanne fansusanne fan Posts: 1,080
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    Colette has, unfortunately, not worked at all. Zosia is played by an excellent actress but the character has been going on about the same subject for about a year now and is getting very, very irritating.

    I will be in the minority but I am fed up with Digby. He has shown very little character development and is a very one-note character. He needs to be partnered with someone much more dynamic.

    Just a couple of things, they've ruined Colette by giving her no storylines for 8 months (Its not Louise's acting its the script)

    Zosia is the only thing really interesting at the moment, its been a long build up but as has been said the nature of this storyline doesn't just happen overnight (which is why she's had a lot of screen time since she first appeared) But she is an excellent actress.

    As for Digby..............I'm confused as to where and what his character is just going nowhere....... he's got a girlfriend who hardly ever appears and I think we need to see a bit more of Digby's actual personality, he can't just be a geek who has no real flaws (except the panic attack thing which vanished as quickly as Colette's HR review)
  • Sez_babeSez_babe Posts: 133,998
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    Deschanel wrote: »
    I hadn't noticed the similarities with Greg. He was another character I didn't care for until his abuse was revealed. I was disappointed when he left. I don't want to have to wait until Harry leaves for him to get interesting. I really want to care about him now. I think exploring his obvious daddy issues would give the character some much needed direction. I also think he would benefit from working more with Serena/Ric, than Raf and his ego. I think Amy could have potential, but not in her current state. I hope this baby will have a positive influence on Harry. With Amy being recurring, it doesn't feel like she will be around past this baby story.

    Could you imagine Fletch on Keller with Sacha and Co.? Psycho Dom would be drooling over him, and unbalanced Zosia would be trying to seduce him, Digby would be flapping about in an anxious state trying to keep everything together, while clueless Sacha drifted about. This would be repeated every other episode.


    Thanks, Fiagomez. :) I didn't understand Jac's reasoning for abandoning her baby, not after having to explain the truth about her mother swanning of to India and abandoning her. That has really shaped Jac's character, so for her to randomly do it to Emma, doesn't make much sense.

    Yeh I really didn't want Greg to leave either - his leaving storyline was very emotional though and handled well, I thought. Harry needs to show some emotion towards something at some point; I think people like him because he's a bit obnoxious but can be funny and is not a bad person at heart. Hopefully this will be explored.

    That's true, at least on AAU Fletch has people to bounce off of.
    Just a couple of things, they've ruined Colette by giving her no storylines for 8 months (Its not Louise's acting its the script)

    Zosia is the only thing really interesting at the moment, its been a long build up but as has been said the nature of this storyline doesn't just happen overnight (which is why she's had a lot of screen time since she first appeared) But she is an excellent actress.

    As for Digby..............I'm confused as to where and what his character is just going nowhere....... he's got a girlfriend who hardly ever appears and I think we need to see a bit more of Digby's actual personality, he can't just be a geek who has no real flaws (except the panic attack thing which vanished as quickly as Colette's HR review)

    I agree - I couldn't believe that up until about May, she hadn't had much screen time at all.

    I really like Dom and I'm glad they brought him back, but I've disliked how he and Zosia have treated Digby recently so I'm glad the plot seems to be moving on.
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