An hour either way. New teachers don't have the luxury of working close to home - jobs are so few and far between now that you've got to be prepared to travel. As far as I can tell there hasn't been a SINGLE teaching job in Stoke-on-Trent this year. For any secondary subject.
I've been teaching 2 years and I teach a 12 minute drive away (I've managed it in 7 before but that was at 4.30 in the morning so it doesn't count ) I've actually walked there once, in the snow - but I did think I was going to curl up and die when I got to the top of the first hill.
There's always a shed load of jobs around here but then it is the home counties. Which has its own problems with house prices etc.
But you could claim that about almost any job. Should bus drivers get more because they provide transport for some teachers, without whom etc...
Perhaps builders should get more, as without them the teachers would have nowhere to teach...
Exactly. I shop in Tescos therefore I am subsidising the pensions of Tescos workers. We all subsidise the pensions of everyone just by spending money and paying taxes.
My two were just pleased to leave Uni and get a job
so many of their friends left Uni and did not get employment
there are a lot of students in their 3rd & 4th years who would be glad to have a teaching job when they leave even with the new rules for emplyment and pensions
To be honest, the idea of retirement is so far away for me that it barely registers. Even so, it's the underhand nature, changing pay and conditions without consultation, which gets on my nerves. It's a little disturbing, suggests anything could happen.
Everyone's pensions are being hit just now. Why should teachers be a special case.
Not saying they should be happy about it, and good luck to them if they strike, but if they do get to hang on to their current pensions, the extra cash will need to come from somewhere and I won't be too chuffed if my pension gets hit again to cover the cost.
I'd rather that we weren't spending billions trying to save the world in the Middle East and giving away billions in foreign aid. That money would go a long way towards causes closer to home.
To be honest, the idea of retirement is so far away for me that it barely registers. Even so, it's the underhand nature, changing pay and conditions without consultation, which gets on my nerves. It's a little disturbing, suggests anything could happen.
To those of you that think that teaching is an easy job - let me describe my normal working day.
I get up at 6 and arrive at school at 7 in the morning. I deal with paperwork, emails, get photocopying done and check my resources for the day until the children arrive at 8.30
I teach all day until 3.15, with a 20 minute break during which I am required to supervise the children outside, and half an hour for lunch.
After the children have gone home I usually have a meeting with my department, meeting with parents or outside organisations, or after school detentions to supervise. Once these are over (4.30 to 4.45) I can then begin planning my lessons for the next day.
All classes work at different speeds and have different strengths and weaknesses. I try to tailor my teaching to their needs as much as possible. This sometimes means designing my own worksheets (not just getting them to work out of a textbook!), producing presentations to use on an interactive whiteboard, designing games and puzzles etc..
I am required to leave the school building at 6pm. I travel home and continue planning and making resources often until 7 or 8pm.
Every week I am required to mark 7 classes of books (about 32 books in each class), as well as marking tests. This is what I spend my evenings doing. During term time I usually work at home until 10 or 11pm.
I also spend my weekends planning and doing marking (usually one full day each weekend).
After an intense 6 or 7 weeks it is half term and I finally get some spare time where I can go out with friends in the evenings, etc. During the last half term I spent 2 days creating a scheme of work for the term which has just started.
Teaching is not a 9 to 3 job and the so called "holidays" are often used for work as well.
For my hard work on low wages I would hope there to be some reward at the end of it. At this level of intensity I am not sure I would be able to continue working until 68.
You are doing too much.
You should not be required to supervise at break time every day (I do it once a week).
You should not be marking those books every week (once a fortnight is fine).
I arrive at 8am, have a coffee with my colleagues then greet my tutor group. I teach two lessons then have a 20 minute break, then two more lessons, a half hour lunch, and one final lesson. I have five free periods a week.
After school, I may have a meeting once a week, but usually not. Marking not done during my frees and lesson planning takes until about 5.30 when I head home.
I do not work in the evening.
I do not work during holidays (I am abroad for most of them).
And I regularly get Outstanding lesson observations, my pupils get excellent results, and I organise and run 5 educational visits per year (4 of which are residential and 3 of which are abroad).
An hour either way. New teachers don't have the luxury of working close to home - jobs are so few and far between now that you've got to be prepared to travel. As far as I can tell there hasn't been a SINGLE teaching job in Stoke-on-Trent this year. For any secondary subject.
coxy, you're as idealistic as I once was. A change of school varies between "not easy" and "impossible" at the moment. And you proved me wrong, there's one teaching job in Stoke this year Too bad I don't teach maths. I wish I did.
coxy, you're as idealistic as I once was. A change of school varies between "not easy" and "impossible" at the moment. And you proved me wrong, there's one teaching job in Stoke this year Too bad I don't teach maths. I wish I did.
As I said earlier, there are dozens of jobs near me. Several members of staff are moving on from my school this year to other, better, schools - so it's not even as if it is a step-down to get a job.
It may be different where you are, but my experience is clearly very different.
Everyone's pensions are being hit just now. Why should teachers be a special case.
Not saying they should be happy about it, and good luck to them if they strike, but if they do get to hang on to their current pensions, the extra cash will need to come from somewhere and I won't be too chuffed if my pension gets hit again to cover the cost.
I think we all agree that teaching is not necessarily the easiest job in the world. However from reading the threads it would seem that the newer (younger) teachers seem to be taking a more realistic view of the situation.
The union spokeman said earlier today that the teachers pension fund was "fully funded" but by who, not the contributions the employees are making but by the vast amounts teaching authorities have to pay in.
As we all live longer there will come a time we have more retired teachers than those actually working. It seems fair that we change the pensions teachers receive now rather than wait until there is nothing left to pay those who are working now.
It seems to me that the older teachers of today just want there cake and stuff all the younger ones who will retire in 40 years time with next to nothing.
Ultimately if teaching is so bad move into the real world, you might be surprised, its even worse. At present teachers pay 6.4% of there salary into their pension fund and employers 14.1%. By the way, employers mean all the tax payers of the UK that includes teachers. I don't have a final salary pension scheme and I now pay 16% of my salary into a personal pension and my employer pays nothing. Employers contributions into the teachers scheme is way above the average paid in money purchase schemes (stakeholder) that most private sector employees have.
Ultimately if we are to maintain public sector pensions we will all have to pay more tax, either through income or council tax.
With respect, it's your right not to strike - but perhaps you should consider leaving your union and joining a different one. A democratic vote was taken and whatever the turn out, the decision was made to strike. If you don't agree with it and don't support your union in that decision, it may be time to change union.
ETA: 60% didn't express an opinion they were so apathetic. They should have voted no if they felt that.
They probably didn't open the post.
I asked our union rep what the NAS' stance was on this, apparently they are working with the TUC to negotiate first, and that negotiation comes to an end this summer.....if it goes badly, NASUWT may be balloted for action in the new term....which is bad news for schools....1 day in the summer term when years 11 - 13 are effectively gone is one thing...hitting a school in September/October is a nightmare.
From what I know from where I live, NUT is a strong union in the primary sector....I know most of the secondary schools in this and the surrounding counties won't be affected by 30th June, they are 90% NASUWT.
Our union rep has said that IF (big if, as NAS like to negotiate) we go to strike, it will be a rolling strike, to cause maximum disruption to the school
You should not be required to supervise at break time every day (I do it once a week).
You should not be marking those books every week (once a fortnight is fine).
I arrive at 8am, have a coffee with my colleagues then greet my tutor group. I teach two lessons then have a 20 minute break, then two more lessons, a half hour lunch, and one final lesson. I have five free periods a week.
After school, I may have a meeting once a week, but usually not. Marking not done during my frees and lesson planning takes until about 5.30 when I head home.
I do not work in the evening.
I do not work during holidays (I am abroad for most of them).
And I regularly get Outstanding lesson observations, my pupils get excellent results, and I organise and run 5 educational visits per year (4 of which are residential and 3 of which are abroad).
May I suggest a change of school?
Your teaching career sounds very relaxed!
I start at 7am with department running stuff!
I work in evenings and every half term. Christmas and Easter...I will work for 1 week and give myself 1 week off. Summer I work for the first and last week.
I think we all agree that teaching is not necessarily the easiest job in the world. However from reading the threads it would seem that the newer (younger) teachers seem to be taking a more realistic view of the situation.
The union spokeman said earlier today that the teachers pension fund was "fully funded" but by who, not the contributions the employees are making but by the vast amounts teaching authorities have to pay in.
As we all live longer there will come a time we have more retired teachers than those actually working. It seems fair that we change the pensions teachers receive now rather than wait until there is nothing left to pay those who are working now.
It seems to me that the older teachers of today just want there cake and stuff all the younger ones who will retire in 40 years time with next to nothing.
Ultimately if teaching is so bad move into the real world, you might be surprised, its even worse. At present teachers pay 6.4% of there salary into their pension fund and employers 14.1%. By the way, employers mean all the tax payers of the UK that includes teachers. I don't have a final salary pension scheme and I now pay 16% of my salary into a personal pension and my employer pays nothing. Employers contributions into the teachers scheme is way above the average paid in money purchase schemes (stakeholder) that most private sector employees have.
Ultimately if we are to maintain public sector pensions we will all have to pay more tax, either through income or council tax.
Is that me you are speaking to?
Listen - I have done this job for 33 years now this summer and up till the recent controversy have known what my pension was going to be - the government (who you'd expect to be trustworthy) promised it to me - they did not say this is what your pension may be, they said this is what it will be. Now said government wants to change the rules with me not far off retirement (hopefully - lol).
How am I meant to react? - 'thats fine Mr Gove - are you sure you've got enough of what you formerly promised me?'
We are not asking for favours or anything, just simple basic human concepts which should be present in a civllised society from the governent like justice and honesty.
Now OK financial reality might bite and things may need to be changed in the future but not for people who are so close to retirement that they have no time to plan for the changes - how this would work and when it would come in would be something for the unions to negotiate in a fair and proper way - how the government has treated good people who have given their lives working hard for the benefit of others is disgusting and frankly shameful.
And no in no sense do I have an attitude as a older teacher that I do not care about people who will retire in 40 years time - they need treating with dignity, justice and respect too as if they are not then it will become harder and harder to get people to do this vital job in society - but at least if changes are made then they can plan ahead accordingly. I and others like me have spent 33 years or so assuming something to be the case cos the government told us it was - only for them now to think it is acceptable to 'move the goal posts'.
It doesn't matter if you've taught 4 years or 40 years....we all signed up to public work knowing that our wages would be lower than the private sector but it would be made up with a decent pension.
You can't just change a whole workforce (and not just teachers either) pay and conditions without consultation and hope they'll think 'oh this is the big society, count me in' and walk away.
If you are that close to retirement then any changes in pension rules would have very little effect. There is therefore no logic in striking to protect pensions if the envitable as you have stated has to happen.
If you are 10 to 15 years from retiring then you either have to contribute more or expect to work longer to get the same benefit. If you work in the private sector terms and conditions get changed and there is nothing you can do about it except get another job.
I am over 50 now and expect if able that I will work until at least 70 to enable me to get a decent pension. It might not be in the same job but I will be working past my official retirement age.
I'm afraid to say financial reality arrived ten years ago for the majority in private industry, its now the public sectors turn to find out what it means.
No, I'm fed up of teachers and other workers in the public sector complaining about working conditions and pay rises and pensions. People in the private sector have had enough problems with redundancies, no pay rises etc and it's time for these timewasters to see the real world. I was a teacher once, but got fed up of the pointlessness of the paperwork and rubbish associated with the job.
I once spent a week in the local tax office, if any of those people working there worked for me, they would be sacked within 2 weeks for sheer lazyness. Public sector workers need to realise they have an easy life and would never survive in the private sector
yes they should strike, its a hard job, christ knows we put our teachers through hell and im ashamed i was that sort of person, but they still get it, plus their hours are long, they take home work frequently, they have one of the most important jobs to do and need to be rewarded for it.
It's a difficult one.Maggie Thatcher beat the miners.But will Cameron beat the teachers?.
I sense a long and troublesome period ahead for all the public sector versus the Govt.A fight to the death.
I guess Income/Mortgage Protection Insurance doesn't cover strikes does it?.
Listen - I have done this job for 33 years now this summer and up till the recent controversy have known what my pension was going to be - the government (who you'd expect to be trustworthy) promised it to me - they did not say this is what your pension may be, they said this is what it will be. Now said government wants to change the rules with me not far off retirement (hopefully - lol).
How am I meant to react? - 'thats fine Mr Gove - are you sure you've got enough of what you formerly promised me?'
We are not asking for favours or anything, just simple basic human concepts which should be present in a civllised society from the governent like justice and honesty.
Now OK financial reality might bite and things may need to be changed in the future but not for people who are so close to retirement that they have no time to plan for the changes - how this would work and when it would come in would be something for the unions to negotiate in a fair and proper way - how the government has treated good people who have given their lives working hard for the benefit of others is disgusting and frankly shameful.
And no in no sense do I have an attitude as a older teacher that I do not care about people who will retire in 40 years time - they need treating with dignity, justice and respect too as if they are not then it will become harder and harder to get people to do this vital job in society - but at least if changes are made then they can plan ahead accordingly. I and others like me have spent 33 years or so assuming something to be the case cos the government told us it was - only for them now to think it is acceptable to 'move the goal posts'.
Shocking.
Completely understand you're frustration and point of view. I would have agreed with you ten years ago until I spoke to someone who worked in the civil service pensions.
He explained how the public have been sold a lie over the past few decades.
We're told to go to work, work hard, save for a pension, pay your national insurance and we'll look after you in your old age.
These politicians don't have a crystal ball!
They don't know what the state of the country will be in 40 years time, they don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.
We swallow all this guff and they tell us what they know we want to hear then keep their fingers crossed that the plan they outline will work.
This lie they sold you has been exposed and as sorry I am about it, that's all it is.
I'm a young (26 is young, yes?) teacher and I'll be on strike on the 30th. I can't say I feel particularly strongly about the issue because retirement seems a long long way off, and no doubt there'll be many changes to pensions and pay and conditions over the years, so if anything I'm supporting my colleagues and my union. But as far as the pensions issue goes, I don't mind paying more and taking a bit less if it seems everyone else will be doing that. What I take massive issue with is the raising of the age at which we can retire - there is absolutely no way I, or anyone I know will still have the energy to still actively and effectively do this job in my mid-late 60s. For me, that is what I simply will not budge on.
I'm a young (26 is young, yes?) teacher and I'll be on strike on the 30th. I can't say I feel particularly strongly about the issue because retirement seems a long long way off, and no doubt there'll be many changes to pensions and pay and conditions over the years, so if anything I'm supporting my colleagues and my union. But as far as the pensions issue goes, I don't mind paying more and taking a bit less if it seems everyone else will be doing that. What I take massive issue with is the raising of the age at which we can retire - there is absolutely no way I, or anyone I know will still have the energy to still actively and effectively do this job in my mid-late 60s. For me, that is what I simply will not budge on.
Jeez, my dad is way into his 70s and you couldn't force him to stop working if you tried.
I'm a young (26 is young, yes?) teacher and I'll be on strike on the 30th. I can't say I feel particularly strongly about the issue because retirement seems a long long way off, and no doubt there'll be many changes to pensions and pay and conditions over the years, so if anything I'm supporting my colleagues and my union. But as far as the pensions issue goes, I don't mind paying more and taking a bit less if it seems everyone else will be doing that. What I take massive issue with is the raising of the age at which we can retire - there is absolutely no way I, or anyone I know will still have the energy to still actively and effectively do this job in my mid-late 60s. For me, that is what I simply will not budge on.
No one is expecting you to be in teaching in your mid 60's, I'm an engineer and a lot closer to 60 than you. I fully expect I will either be an advisor at B&Q or similar or working at a supermarket. Its a great way to get out of the house, socialise and get paid all at the same time. Its called winding down. My grandad worked until the day he died and he was 76.
Comments
I've been teaching 2 years and I teach a 12 minute drive away (I've managed it in 7 before but that was at 4.30 in the morning so it doesn't count
There's always a shed load of jobs around here but then it is the home counties. Which has its own problems with house prices etc.
Exactly. I shop in Tescos therefore I am subsidising the pensions of Tescos workers. We all subsidise the pensions of everyone just by spending money and paying taxes.
To be honest, the idea of retirement is so far away for me that it barely registers. Even so, it's the underhand nature, changing pay and conditions without consultation, which gets on my nerves. It's a little disturbing, suggests anything could happen.
I'd rather that we weren't spending billions trying to save the world in the Middle East and giving away billions in foreign aid. That money would go a long way towards causes closer to home.
yes it was very disturbing and upseting
As someone else has said though, why because it has happened to others, should it also happen to teachers et al?
There are other unions protesting, not just teachers.
You are doing too much.
You should not be required to supervise at break time every day (I do it once a week).
You should not be marking those books every week (once a fortnight is fine).
I arrive at 8am, have a coffee with my colleagues then greet my tutor group. I teach two lessons then have a 20 minute break, then two more lessons, a half hour lunch, and one final lesson. I have five free periods a week.
After school, I may have a meeting once a week, but usually not. Marking not done during my frees and lesson planning takes until about 5.30 when I head home.
I do not work in the evening.
I do not work during holidays (I am abroad for most of them).
And I regularly get Outstanding lesson observations, my pupils get excellent results, and I organise and run 5 educational visits per year (4 of which are residential and 3 of which are abroad).
May I suggest a change of school?
http://www.tes.co.uk/JobDetailssilver.aspx?ac=3001564&qry=parametrics%3dJOBCATEGORYCODE%7c10638%26PageNo%3d1&cur=1&rslt=1&UK=true
As I said earlier, there are dozens of jobs near me. Several members of staff are moving on from my school this year to other, better, schools - so it's not even as if it is a step-down to get a job.
It may be different where you are, but my experience is clearly very different.
I think we all agree that teaching is not necessarily the easiest job in the world. However from reading the threads it would seem that the newer (younger) teachers seem to be taking a more realistic view of the situation.
The union spokeman said earlier today that the teachers pension fund was "fully funded" but by who, not the contributions the employees are making but by the vast amounts teaching authorities have to pay in.
As we all live longer there will come a time we have more retired teachers than those actually working. It seems fair that we change the pensions teachers receive now rather than wait until there is nothing left to pay those who are working now.
It seems to me that the older teachers of today just want there cake and stuff all the younger ones who will retire in 40 years time with next to nothing.
Ultimately if teaching is so bad move into the real world, you might be surprised, its even worse. At present teachers pay 6.4% of there salary into their pension fund and employers 14.1%. By the way, employers mean all the tax payers of the UK that includes teachers. I don't have a final salary pension scheme and I now pay 16% of my salary into a personal pension and my employer pays nothing. Employers contributions into the teachers scheme is way above the average paid in money purchase schemes (stakeholder) that most private sector employees have.
Ultimately if we are to maintain public sector pensions we will all have to pay more tax, either through income or council tax.
I asked our union rep what the NAS' stance was on this, apparently they are working with the TUC to negotiate first, and that negotiation comes to an end this summer.....if it goes badly, NASUWT may be balloted for action in the new term....which is bad news for schools....1 day in the summer term when years 11 - 13 are effectively gone is one thing...hitting a school in September/October is a nightmare.
From what I know from where I live, NUT is a strong union in the primary sector....I know most of the secondary schools in this and the surrounding counties won't be affected by 30th June, they are 90% NASUWT.
Our union rep has said that IF (big if, as NAS like to negotiate) we go to strike, it will be a rolling strike, to cause maximum disruption to the school
Your teaching career sounds very relaxed!
I start at 7am with department running stuff!
I work in evenings and every half term. Christmas and Easter...I will work for 1 week and give myself 1 week off. Summer I work for the first and last week.
Is that me you are speaking to?
Listen - I have done this job for 33 years now this summer and up till the recent controversy have known what my pension was going to be - the government (who you'd expect to be trustworthy) promised it to me - they did not say this is what your pension may be, they said this is what it will be. Now said government wants to change the rules with me not far off retirement (hopefully - lol).
How am I meant to react? - 'thats fine Mr Gove - are you sure you've got enough of what you formerly promised me?'
We are not asking for favours or anything, just simple basic human concepts which should be present in a civllised society from the governent like justice and honesty.
Now OK financial reality might bite and things may need to be changed in the future but not for people who are so close to retirement that they have no time to plan for the changes - how this would work and when it would come in would be something for the unions to negotiate in a fair and proper way - how the government has treated good people who have given their lives working hard for the benefit of others is disgusting and frankly shameful.
And no in no sense do I have an attitude as a older teacher that I do not care about people who will retire in 40 years time - they need treating with dignity, justice and respect too as if they are not then it will become harder and harder to get people to do this vital job in society - but at least if changes are made then they can plan ahead accordingly. I and others like me have spent 33 years or so assuming something to be the case cos the government told us it was - only for them now to think it is acceptable to 'move the goal posts'.
Shocking.
You can't just change a whole workforce (and not just teachers either) pay and conditions without consultation and hope they'll think 'oh this is the big society, count me in' and walk away.
If you are that close to retirement then any changes in pension rules would have very little effect. There is therefore no logic in striking to protect pensions if the envitable as you have stated has to happen.
If you are 10 to 15 years from retiring then you either have to contribute more or expect to work longer to get the same benefit. If you work in the private sector terms and conditions get changed and there is nothing you can do about it except get another job.
I am over 50 now and expect if able that I will work until at least 70 to enable me to get a decent pension. It might not be in the same job but I will be working past my official retirement age.
I'm afraid to say financial reality arrived ten years ago for the majority in private industry, its now the public sectors turn to find out what it means.
If you live longer you have to work longer.
I once spent a week in the local tax office, if any of those people working there worked for me, they would be sacked within 2 weeks for sheer lazyness. Public sector workers need to realise they have an easy life and would never survive in the private sector
It won't do them any good though, the country is so badly off now it's tragic.
In the very near future, the unions will be striking because the government won't be able to pay their salaries in full any longer.
Watch the strikes then!
I sense a long and troublesome period ahead for all the public sector versus the Govt.A fight to the death.
I guess Income/Mortgage Protection Insurance doesn't cover strikes does it?.
Completely understand you're frustration and point of view. I would have agreed with you ten years ago until I spoke to someone who worked in the civil service pensions.
He explained how the public have been sold a lie over the past few decades.
We're told to go to work, work hard, save for a pension, pay your national insurance and we'll look after you in your old age.
These politicians don't have a crystal ball!
They don't know what the state of the country will be in 40 years time, they don't know what's going to happen tomorrow.
We swallow all this guff and they tell us what they know we want to hear then keep their fingers crossed that the plan they outline will work.
This lie they sold you has been exposed and as sorry I am about it, that's all it is.
Jeez, my dad is way into his 70s and you couldn't force him to stop working if you tried.
You have a very depressing view of the over 60s.
No one is expecting you to be in teaching in your mid 60's, I'm an engineer and a lot closer to 60 than you. I fully expect I will either be an advisor at B&Q or similar or working at a supermarket. Its a great way to get out of the house, socialise and get paid all at the same time. Its called winding down. My grandad worked until the day he died and he was 76.