What is the age limit in the TARDIS?

[Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,440
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I was going to see if this topic had been done before but when there is over 10,000 threads i thought I won't bother. LOL

Very simply, how old is too old for being either The Doctor or a companion?

Because of the nature of the show as it is now I think it's fair to say if when the show returned The Doctor was played by a man as old as William Hartnell it probably wouldn't have been as big a hit and could even have flopped and got axed straight away.

Although it's possible for a Timelord to look older after a regeneration I think if it happened now younger fans would lose interest in the show very quickly. I think this show has to have an young lead now sadly.
The question is how old can you go? Unless the actor is popular from something else I can't see it being above the age of 30. He may be over that when he leaves as by then he is established in the role but I can't see it happening when he starts.

You also now have the factor that a boundary has been crossed. In the original series it was always seen as they are friends. Sex was never a factor. Since it came back they've been fancying each other left right and centre. Now that has been brought into the mix if a man looking 50 starts hanging about with a girl in her late teens early 20's people are going to assume it's not because they are friends. IMO the innocence has gone from the TARDIS now.

Equally I can't see there being an older companion. Yes I know Catherine Tate is older but she was known for other stuff so it's easier to accept her, although she got a savaging online when she was revealed to be in the show.
Even when the original series was on I always wanted an older companion. A man or woman in their 40's or 50's someone that had a lot of life experience and would stand up to the Doctor and say no, or you're wrong.
I still think an older companion would create an new kind of relationship that we haven't had on the show. If people have heard Maggie Stables as Evelyn on the Big Finish audios they'll know that an older companion works.
However I doubt it will ever happen.

These kind of shows or films rely on young people. Buffy, Heroes (centred around a cheerleader), Merlin, Demons, Robin Hood, Primeval even films such as Twilight (spits) or Harry Potter.
Younger people find it easier too identify with younger characters.

When Peter Davison was announced as taking over from Tom many people said he is too young. He was 29 or 30. Now that would be seen as the correct age or possibly even borderline too old for the role.

So what are the age limits that would be ok before people would think;
Too old for The Doctor I'm not interested in him.
I can't identify with him/her as a companion because they're too old.
He's old, he/she is young... eww gross!
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Comments

  • tallordertallorder Posts: 975
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    There's no age limit - the only limit is in the imagination of the viewers. Personally, I loved the older full time companion as a counterpoint to a young Doctor - look at how popular Wilf was.

    I think an older Doctor could work again, paired with a younger team... look at Hartnell's Doc with Chesterton as the man of action. Similiar was planned with Harry Sullivan, though in the end Tom Baker dominated the role and Harry's character was redundant. As ever, it's all in the writing...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 723
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    The Doctor is an old and wisened figure, you could almost say he's like a father figure, the man you turn to with all the answers, so on that basis, I don't think there is any age that I would consider as being too old.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,440
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    tallorder wrote: »
    There's no age limit - the only limit is in the imagination of the viewers. Personally, I loved the older full time companion as a counterpoint to a young Doctor - look at how popular Wilf was.

    I think an older Doctor could work again, paired with a younger team... look at Hartnell's Doc with Chesterton as the man of action. Similiar was planned with Harry Sullivan, though in the end Tom Baker dominated the role and Harry's character was redundant. As ever, it's all in the writing...

    I think Wilf would make a superb companion and would be accepted, but is that because he had been in a few episodes so the fans got to know him. If he had just been in one story would he be as popular with the fans?

    I'm guessing by your comments that like me you are no longer in the 8-25 years old range. If so we won't see things the same way as that age range.
    Even if people were thinking it, which is likely I can'tg believe the forums would have been full of threads like "Pertwee is hot!" and "I wan't Troughton's babies!"
    In the same way younger people watch these shows like X Factor and go he's hot I want him to win it can't be denied that a lot of David's female fanbase is drawn on him being attractive. No doubt Matt will get the same thing. Let's say after Matt the actor cast is an 52 year old man. How much is that likely to affect the ratings for that demographic?
    Will kids be as interested in seeing a guy as old or older than their dad?
    Let's go the other way. Let's say after Matt an actor aged 18 is given the role. How will older fans feel about that? If Peter was too young at 29/30 what is a teenager?
    The he's too young comments certainly resurfaced when matt was revealed as number 11.

    I'm open for anything. Let's have a companion that is 72. Or a companion that is morbidly obese, but I'm realistic and know that an old person or an morbidly obese person won't become companion and the reason given is "it's not felt they could cope with the rigors of filming at the rate we have to work at." More so though it won't happen because everything is done demographically and having to fit certain criteria which means the powers that be may not like the idea much that this idea/person may not go down well with the viewers. And in this case I think they may be right. When they decided to make Merlin and Robin Hood I wonder if an actor aged 30+ was even considered?
  • JethrykJethryk Posts: 1,355
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    How can you say 29 is borderline too old. Was David Tennant too old? Just because Matt Smith is young doesn't mean it has to become the template, besides we don't know his Doctor will work yet. How old Is John Barrowman? Would he be too old if he was cast now?

    Personally the way they sidelined The Doctor in favour of his companions at times. I don't see why they can't go back to an older Doc. Like a previous poster said they would probably have another younger companion to compensate.
    Rather this than a Doctor Who starring the cast of Hollyoaks.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 613
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    Christopher Ecclestone was in his 40s and played the doctor brilliantly.
    The thing with 'new-who' is that it involves a lot of running away from scary monsters/etc, so because of that I would say around about 45 would be the top age for a doctor/companion; any older and you'd have to suspend disbelief to accept they could escape...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 8
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    Sarah Jane Smith (Lis Sladen) is 62 as far as I can see and she still seems to run around and fight aliens, virtually on a daily basis.
  • tingramretrotingramretro Posts: 10,974
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    Christopher Ecclestone was in his 40s and played the doctor brilliantly.
    The thing with 'new-who' is that it involves a lot of running away from scary monsters/etc, so because of that I would say around about 45 would be the top age for a doctor/companion; any older and you'd have to suspend disbelief to accept they could escape...

    Classsic Who also involved a lot of running away from scary monsters. Yet the older Doctors seemed to do just fine. Ever seen the amount of pensioners who compete in the London Marathon every year?
  • NewbieCanuckNewbieCanuck Posts: 6,698
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    Even if people were thinking it, which is likely I can'tg believe the forums would have been full of threads like "Pertwee is hot!" and "I wan't Troughton's babies!"
    In the same way younger people watch these shows like X Factor and go he's hot I want him to win it can't be denied that a lot of David's female fanbase is drawn on him being attractive. No doubt Matt will get the same thing.

    To be fair, I'm not entirely certain that we'd have had threads like that if Pertwee and Troughton had played the role in their 20s or 30s either.

    A case in point is Matt Smith. We've known about him for over a year now, and the forums have been full of pictures of him in the part for months, and we're not full of threads of that nature because most people don't find him that attractive. Indeed, David Tennant is not, objectively speaking, "hot." He was hot because he was the Doctor. The Doctor wasn't hot because he was David Tennant.

    In terms of age, I think the Doctor can be from his 20s to his 40s, and that's due to the physical demands of the role. There will certainly be exceptions of actors in their 50s who could do it too. It's more up to the individual than their chronological age. I don't think the idea of having a younger companion to handle the physical stuff works anymore because it takes away from the Doctor's image. The Doctor has to be able to run, jump, etc. Mind you, Lis Sladen is still doing that in her 60s - and is also starring in a show aimed directly at children.

    An older Doctor might not appeal to the "fangirl" segment of the audience, but they're not necessarily that large a segment. It's kids I see at the Proms, not teenagers. And the forums are mainly adults.

    I do think though, as time goes by, it will be harder and harder to have Doctors with distinctly different personalities. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Lots of actors have put their own stamp on Hamlet, for example, without changing a word of the original play. I'd rather see an actor show the Doctor differently because of his performance, rather than have the part written differently for him.
  • mandyxxxxmandyxxxx Posts: 1,102
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    I don't think the age of the Doctor or the companions is particularly an issue. What does matter is that they are believable in the roles. To some extent that believability depends on how the roles are written. New Who has so far involved a good deal of running and as a result the Doctor needs to appear fit enough to cope - that isn't necessarily an age determined thing. For example, Johnny Vegas is younger than Matt Damon (38 and 39 respectively) Matt Damon is very believable as an action hero, Johnny Vegas perhaps less so!
    Whilst we know the Doctor can look any age, he is in fact very old and I do wonder if a very young appearing Doctor would seem right. I think Matt Smith will get away with it, because he doesn't have a classically youthful look, but I would certainly struggle to believe the wisdom needed by the Doctor if he had a "High School Musical/Zac Ephron" sort of look.

    I think the companion can be any age, sex or appearance as long as the dynamic with the Doctor is well written. I do think different types of companions is good since that provides variety in how that dynamic can work.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,440
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    Lots of replies here. :)

    To the people that say older people are capable of running etc. I didn't say they couldn't. What I meant is if it was asked why aren't there older actors cast as the Doctor or the companions and they are aiming for the younger demograph they aren't very likely to say because they are old or in the case of an big person because they are fat and thus both "could" lose us viewers.
    Look at the hassle over Arlene Phillips and Moira Stuart "possibly" getting axed over their ages. The BBC would have to be nuts to risk opening up that kind of thing. Where as if you say that it's very demanding etc it sounds better.

    After it was announced that David was leaving one name got mentioned as being his replacement, Holby and Survivors actor Paterson Joseph. I was hoping it was him but wasn't expecting it too be not because he is black but because he is 45. I hope I'm wrong but I just cant see an older actor being given the role anymore in a world that is obsessed with looking young and image.
    I guess my concern is image will eventually become more important than suitability for the role.
    I'm being generous saying 35, however I think 30 is more likely the top age an actor playing the role from now on is likely to be, unless they are "well known" and seen as a "star" before taking the part.

    I think an companion can be older as the younger Doctor balances it out. The chances of this one happening are pretty much nil, but I would like to see Tony Selby return as Sabalom Glitz and become an companion. That was such a great character, I would love to see him back.
    Sablom couldn't be this person but I would like to see an companion that is older that instead of having another companion that looks up to the Doctor as being the wiseman, The Doctor looks up to this older person whether male or female as being a wise person whose advice and guidance he seeks. It was kind of mentioned with Donna but was never realised properly.

    As Mandyxxx wrote

    Whilst we know the Doctor can look any age, he is in fact very old and I do wonder if a very young appearing Doctor would seem right. I think Matt Smith will get away with it, because he doesn't have a classically youthful look, but I would certainly struggle to believe the wisdom needed by the Doctor if he had a "High School Musical/Zac Ephron" sort of look.

    If the companion who is in their late teens early 20's says something it's easy for the Doctor to think what do you know? If the companion is older, although he/she is ridiculously younger than him he/she has lived life more so is speaking with more insight and experience.
  • JessicaLJessicaL Posts: 3,333
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    To be fair, I'm not entirely certain that we'd have had threads like that if Pertwee and Troughton had played the role in their 20s or 30s either.

    A case in point is Matt Smith. We've known about him for over a year now, and the forums have been full of pictures of him in the part for months, and we're not full of threads of that nature because most people don't find him that attractive. Indeed, David Tennant is not, objectively speaking, "hot." He was hot because he was the Doctor. The Doctor wasn't hot because he was David Tennant.

    In terms of age, I think the Doctor can be from his 20s to his 40s, and that's due to the physical demands of the role. There will certainly be exceptions of actors in their 50s who could do it too. It's more up to the individual than their chronological age. I don't think the idea of having a younger companion to handle the physical stuff works anymore because it takes away from the Doctor's image. The Doctor has to be able to run, jump, etc. Mind you, Lis Sladen is still doing that in her 60s - and is also starring in a show aimed directly at children.

    An older Doctor might not appeal to the "fangirl" segment of the audience, but they're not necessarily that large a segment. It's kids I see at the Proms, not teenagers. And the forums are mainly adults.

    I do think though, as time goes by, it will be harder and harder to have Doctors with distinctly different personalities. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. Lots of actors have put their own stamp on Hamlet, for example, without changing a word of the original play. I'd rather see an actor show the Doctor differently because of his performance, rather than have the part written differently for him.

    Ten's clearly styled to be sexy-from David's fab hair to Ten's smart suits to his hero coat and cool trainers -interesting thing is David's just as comfortable dressing down for a role :).
    Looking forward to Single Father and seeing what Dave is like :).
  • mandyxxxxmandyxxxx Posts: 1,102
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    Lots of replies here. :)

    If the companion who is in their late teens early 20's says something it's easy for the Doctor to think what do you know? If the companion is older, although he/she is ridiculously younger than him he/she has lived life more so is speaking with more insight and experience.

    I know what you mean, although I think dynamics between the Doctor and both Rose and Wilf show that he can learn from both ends of the human age spectrum, even if that learning is based on his own reactions to that companion.

    I suppose although as I said earlier, for me the age of whoever plays the Doctor isn't greatly important ad long as he is believable in the role, I do agree that the BBC has an ageist approach to casting, no matter what they admit to in public, so you may have a point about the reality of an older Doctor being cast.
    I still think though that the 30/35 age limit is a little low even for the BBC. Given the tendency of action role actors play characters said to be younger than they are and therefore the need for them to keep themselves in better shape than the majority of us, as well as the amount of money they throw at looking young, I think a real life age limit of 30-35 probably translates to about 50 in showbiz terms. I accept that they are already stars, but noone really questions the ability to be an all action hero of the likes of Matt Damon (39), Daniel Craig (42), Nicholas Cage (46) and even, dare I add, Bruce Willis (54) - he may be pushing it a bit perhaps.
    For examples perhaps closer to the Who genre...Chris Pine is 30 this year, I certainly can't see him as too old to be the Doctor.
    Maybe the question is more whether a programme which targets a very young audience can have older heroes, but I suspect that to a 10 year old, 30 and 50 are both just old!
  • NewbieCanuckNewbieCanuck Posts: 6,698
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    JessicaL wrote: »
    Ten's clearly styled to be sexy-from David's fab hair to Ten's smart suits to his hero coat and cool trainers -interesting thing is David's just as comfortable dressing down for a role :).
    Looking forward to Single Father and seeing what Dave is like :).

    Well the trainers are dressing down. And both the trainers and the coat were his idea. The first trainers were his, as it happens.

    I wasn't suggesting that they didn't try to make him look his best, just that he is not what I'd call "hot." There are certainly plenty of shows around that go for that sort of thing, where they find excuses to get the men's shirts off whenever possible. Even when they were forced to show him nude (during Journey's End) they did it quite discreetly compared to John Barrowman in Bad Wolf.
  • mandyxxxxmandyxxxx Posts: 1,102
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    Well the trainers are dressing down. And both the trainers and the coat were his idea. The first trainers were his, as it happens.

    I wasn't suggesting that they didn't try to make him look his best, just that he is not what I'd call "hot." There are certainly plenty of shows around that go for that sort of thing, where they find excuses to get the men's shirts off whenever possible. Even when they were forced to show him nude (during Journey's End) they did it quite discreetly compared to John Barrowman in Bad Wolf.

    Maybe David isn't as comfortable as John about "getting his kit off"? But then to be fair....who is? :D Not that I'd want JB to be any different - keep up the good work John! ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 7,440
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    mandyxxxx wrote: »
    Maybe David isn't as comfortable as John about "getting his kit off"? But then to be fair....who is? :D Not that I'd want JB to be any different - keep up the good work John! ;)

    John is a professional. he only keeps his kit on if it's essential to the part and is done tastefully. ;)
  • NewbieCanuckNewbieCanuck Posts: 6,698
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    mandyxxxx wrote: »
    Maybe David isn't as comfortable as John about "getting his kit off"? But then to be fair....who is? :D Not that I'd want JB to be any different - keep up the good work John! ;)

    I never saw Casanova, but I've always assumed there must have been at least partial nudity. While some actors have an issue with full nudity, I don't think you get very far in acting if you're unwilling to be seen with your shirt off if you're a bloke.
  • pinot_noirpinot_noir Posts: 808
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    I never saw Casanova, but I've always assumed there must have been at least partial nudity. While some actors have an issue with full nudity, I don't think you get very far in acting if you're unwilling to be seen with your shirt off if you're a bloke.

    There was some partial nudity in Casanova although it was actually quite restrained - cleavage rather than topless etc. The 10th doctor and RTD's version of Casanova are very similar characters to be honest. They were both very clever, very enthusiastic and very animated and they both had their hearts broken a lot.
  • NewbieCanuckNewbieCanuck Posts: 6,698
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    pinot_noir wrote: »
    There was some partial nudity in Casanova although it was actually quite restrained - cleavage rather than topless etc. The 10th doctor and RTD's version of Casanova are very similar characters to be honest. They were both very clever, very enthusiastic and very animated and they both had their hearts broken a lot.

    I meant on Tennant's part, not the women. Unless, if you're saying he was showing cleavage, in which case I think you've confused his work on Casanova with Blackpool.
  • pinot_noirpinot_noir Posts: 808
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    I meant on Tennant's part, not the women. Unless, if you're saying he was showing cleavage, in which case I think you've confused his work on Casanova with Blackpool.

    That was more of a comment on how the production handled the sex scenes. However Tennant did do one extremely fleeting nude shot and quite a few partial nude scenes. How much detail would you like me to go into?

    Both DT's doctor and Casanova were attractive because the characters were very charismatic and played by a decent actor rather than because they were played by an actor cast purely for an ability to model underwear in a calendar.
  • NewbieCanuckNewbieCanuck Posts: 6,698
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    pinot_noir wrote: »
    That was more of a comment on how the production handled the sex scenes. However Tennant did do one extremely fleeting nude shot and quite a few partial nude scenes. How much detail would you like me to go into?

    None :D - it only came up because mandyxxxx suggested it might be something he's uncomfortable with.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 666
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    Adding to the comments about David and nudity, I can think of two more examples... Alan Hamilton in Recovery was seen completely naked (from behind) twice, and there's the infamous shot of him in What The Butler Saw.

    As to age limits for the Doctor and the companion, the Doctor's first companion, Susan, was 15, and Ace was 16. Not sure how old Carole Ann Ford or Sophie Aldred were at the time, though.

    Doctor-wise, I think Matt should stay as the youngest. I think the Doctor needs to be old enough to be wise, but young enough to cope with the running!
  • NewbieCanuckNewbieCanuck Posts: 6,698
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    As to age limits for the Doctor and the companion, the Doctor's first companion, Susan, was 15, and Ace was 16. Not sure how old Carole Ann Ford or Sophie Aldred were at the time, though.

    Both in their mid-20s.

    Which makes it only slightly less creepy that the Doctor left his 16-year-old granddaughter with an older man she'd known for hours or days in order to "marry" on a planet almost certainly lacking a registry office. At the very least he could have stayed for the wedding.
  • DavetheScotDavetheScot Posts: 16,623
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    I don't agree with the OP that 30 is likely to be an upper age limit for actors playing the Doctor. In fact, I think Matt will prove an exception in that regard. Stephen Moffat did indicate that he'd been intending to cast a man in his 40s in the part, and it was an exceptional quality in Matt that changed his mind. I hope he's right, because I do remain slightly dubious about such a young Doctor.

    Both Christopher and David were over 30, Christopher considerably so, and were both popular Doctors, so I see no grounds for the OP's fears.

    As to the companion, I think he/she should be either younger or around the same age as the current Doctor. I think a much older companion takes away slightly from the Doctor's being the more wordly and experienced. But that's just my feeling, and some others evidently don't agree.
  • tingramretrotingramretro Posts: 10,974
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    As to age limits for the Doctor and the companion, the Doctor's first companion, Susan, was 15, and Ace was 16. Not sure how old Carole Ann Ford or Sophie Aldred were at the time, though.

    Sophie Aldred was 25 when she first played a 16 year old Ace. Carole Ann Ford was 24 when she played Susan, but while Susan was in theory 15, her alien roots were not yet known at that time so her precise age remains unclear. If she was indeed a Gallifreyan, it's unlikely her name was really Susan and equally unlikely that she was really 15...
  • VabosityVabosity Posts: 2,999
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    Sophie Aldred was 25 when she first played a 16 year old Ace. Carole Ann Ford was 24 when she played Susan, but while Susan was in theory 15, her alien roots were not yet known at that time so her precise age remains unclear. If she was indeed a Gallifreyan, it's unlikely her name was really Susan and equally unlikely that she was really 15...

    And if Susan was indeed a Gallifreyan, why did she marry a human, knowing that she would outlive him by centuries?
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