Moffat confirms River/10 multiple meetings

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  • sionnaighsionnaigh Posts: 1,599
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    If a future Doctor had given her pictures of all his incarnations then why didn't he tell her the order they came in? And if he didn't tell her, why didn't she ask him what order they came in?

    "Spoilers" :D
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 279
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    I always thought that the 10th Doctors first meeting was his only meeting with River and obviously her last. The timelanes in reverse is sometimes difficult to fathom but I think that perhpas the older looking bearded Matt Smith from the Area 51 scenes is perhaps the one River goes off with on her adventures hence he looks older and Tennant is refered to as looking so young when she meets him before her death. She has probably researched the Dr over the years, very easy to do as Clive did in 'Rose' and compiled photo's without neccesarily meeting them in the flesh, from the evidence could compile a timeline from dates and work out which order they may have appeared in, I think she realises that Dr 10 is an earlier model but I haven't watched silence in the libray for a while.
  • Granny McSmithGranny McSmith Posts: 19,622
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    lordOfTime wrote: »
    See there's where I wonder just how many Doctors she's going to meet, on or off screen. If she decides not to do any more Doctor Who before 11 is out how would they handle the story they've given her? It's a massive thing for nerds like me who think aboit these things. :D


    I prefer to think that the trip to Darilium is something we've yet to see maybe by 11 or another Doctor. :)

    In the library I assumed she would meet quite a few. If AK doesn't want to continue in the role then they'd have to get a younger lookalike actress if they bring her back.

    It all depends how it pans out in this series,but she must know more than 2 Doctors or why would she need pictures?

    Of course, any future meetings needn't take place on screen. :D

    See, romantics like me with a penchant for the Tenth Doctor prefer to think it was he who took her to Darillium. :)

    Maybe we'll find out sometime......maybe quite soon!
  • amos_brearleyamos_brearley Posts: 8,496
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    I always thought that the 10th Doctors first meeting was his only meeting with River and obviously her last. The timelanes in reverse is sometimes difficult to fathom but I think that perhpas the older looking bearded Matt Smith from the Area 51 scenes is perhaps the one River goes off with on her adventures hence he looks older and Tennant is refered to as looking so young when she meets him before her death. She has probably researched the Dr over the years, very easy to do as Clive did in 'Rose' and compiled photo's without neccesarily meeting them in the flesh, from the evidence could compile a timeline from dates and work out which order they may have appeared in, I think she realises that Dr 10 is an earlier model but I haven't watched silence in the libray for a while.


    Erm, didn't he just shave and continue in "Day of the Moon" as *our* Doctor? It was only three months later...
  • Gary of BeestonGary of Beeston Posts: 740
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    In the library I assumed she would meet quite a few. If AK doesn't want to continue in the role then they'd have to get a younger lookalike actress if they bring her back.

    Given the number of people who think she's a Timelord or an avatar of the Tardis, she wouldn't even have to be a lookalike actress :D

    But that's just me, stirring...
    Gary
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 279
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    Erm, didn't he just shave and continue in "Day of the Moon" as *our* Doctor? It was only three months later...

    Just a wild assumption Amos to get around the timeline and events mentioned in 'library' that Moffet has concocted. Apparently Matt Smith is to be seen as the bearded Dr again in episode 13....
  • Muttley76Muttley76 Posts: 97,888
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    It's interesting because potential this changes quite a lot of what has been assumed in relation to River's timeline if true....
  • Lady of TrakenLady of Traken Posts: 1,314
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    What's your theory Muttley ? :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 120
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    I know Russell T Davies might not have wanted to use her as she was Stephen Moffat's character, but I always thought they should have chucked at least one more appearance of her with the tenth Doctor in. Planet of the Dead might have been a good opportunity since the companion in that episode was not a million miles away from River in terms of character anyway. As it is I'm quite content to conclude they must have had at least one other meeting than Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead since River clearly acted as though she had met the Tenth Doctor before and expected him to know her in that episode.

    If a future Doctor had given her pictures of all his incarnations then why didn't he tell her the order they came in? And if he didn't tell her, why didn't she ask him what order they came in?

    I know it's a point of trivia but perhaps she didn't get the pictures from the Doctor?
  • KezMKezM Posts: 1,397
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    I know Russell T Davies might not have wanted to use her as she was Stephen Moffat's character, but I always thought they should have chucked at least one more appearance of her with the tenth Doctor in. Planet of the Dead might have been a good opportunity since the companion in that episode was not a million miles away from River in terms of character anyway. As it is I'm quite content to conclude they must have had at least one other meeting than Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead since River clearly acted as though she had met the Tenth Doctor before and expected him to know her in that episode.

    That was how I interpretted it as well. She acted like she recognised him - not just as a younger model but a younger version of 10, who she had obviously met before and expected to recognise her. When we first met River I really took some of the stuff she said to mean she was a woman from 10s future not just the Doctor in general. I think SM was playing it close to his chest. Waiting to see whether he wanted to bring her back or just leave us to imagine she was an off screen companion or way, way in the future. Plus I dont think DT had officially said he wasnt doing series 5 at that point so I imagine he was hoping to still get him on board and there might be more opportunities to do 10/River meetings. But instead he has had to rework it a bit to fit for 11/River.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,352
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    I assume 10 had the final meeting with her, before she went to the library, since their timelines are going in different directions.
  • ListentomeListentome Posts: 9,804
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    In the Library 2 parter River recognises the 10th Doctor, so I always thought she must have met him before. Perhaps it was he who took her to The Singing Towers of Darillium.

    On the other hand, in the Angel 2-parter, the first meeting of River and the 11th Doctor, the Doctor seems a bit strange with her, as if remembering that the last time he met her, she died.

    So I don't know. :D

    I'll have to watch the Angel one again.

    True, but she also has pictures of all his faces, so would recognise him that way. She doesn't seem to know which order the incarnations run in though, but we can assume 10 is the earliest.

    I think the references in the programme itself are vague enough to allow fans to think there are meetings we don't see, or the ones on TV are the only ones.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 45
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    korbany wrote: »
    I wouldn't discount the idea that a future, post library, version of River is running about, either fully resurected or maybe in hard light hologram form.

    Somehow I don't think she would want to spend all eternity in a virtual world.

    Would be be fun if River and the Doctor were syncing diaries and she asked, 'Have we done the Library yet?'.

    I would love this to be true! I can't imagine River just living peacefully in a virtual world either!

    In my head ten minutes after that episode ended River would have been working on a way of coming back!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 46
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    SerenBex wrote: »
    I would love this to be true! I can't imagine River just living peacefully in a virtual world either!

    In my head ten minutes after that episode ended River would have been working on a way of coming back!

    Its funny cos the first time I saw it I thought it was a lovely ending, so nice for her to get that....

    Now River has become such an important character and we know more about her, I think its an awful ending for her. Can you imagine how bored she must be stuck with those dull people in a perfect world forever?? :yawn:
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 43
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    I know River said that they're meeting in reverse but I don't think that is the case with every time they meet up.

    For example, in Forest of the Dead, she mentioned that the last time she saw him, he turned up in a new suit with a haircut and he gave her his screwdriver. I'm sure 10 didn't see her again at that time. I was under the impression he'd been trying to avoid meeting up with her until they eventually did in Time of Angels.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 45
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    Bristow860 wrote: »
    Its funny cos the first time I saw it I thought it was a lovely ending, so nice for her to get that....

    Now River has become such an important character and we know more about her, I think its an awful ending for her. Can you imagine how bored she must be stuck with those dull people in a perfect world forever?? :yawn:

    I know! I remember thinking the same thing about it first time round. But then I watched it again yesterday and was just like... River wouldn't be so happy about being stuck in one place for ever. She'd wreck that world within days! :P

    I know River said that they're meeting in reverse but I don't think that is the case with every time they meet up.

    For example, in Forest of the Dead, she mentioned that the last time she saw him, he turned up in a new suit with a haircut and he gave her his screwdriver. I'm sure 10 didn't see her again at that time. I was under the impression he'd been trying to avoid meeting up with her until they eventually did in Time of Angels.

    He was probably hiding from her between the library and the next time they met! :P

    I don't get the meeting in reverse thing... maybe it's just the way my brain works, but it doesn't make ANY sense. I mean, what's the point in the diaries? They won't match up if River's first meeting is the Doctor's last and vice versa. It seems much more random to me.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 32
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    Interesting that the cover of her diary was shaped like the TARDIS.

    I think some of there meetings are random as I can't see how you can sync the diaries if their timelines are in reverse.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 43
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    SerenBex wrote: »
    I don't get the meeting in reverse thing... maybe it's just the way my brain works, but it doesn't make ANY sense. I mean, what's the point in the diaries? They won't match up if River's first meeting is the Doctor's last and vice versa. It seems much more random to me.

    Exactly! I think they only had River say that to make it easier on the viewers. It can't be easy deciphering which River we're meeting everytime.
    I think overall, they're travelling backwards but there must be a lot of times where they jumble up otherwise the diaries would be just void.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 45
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    The backwards thing could also be (as has been mentioned before I think) a way of making that kiss even MORE heartbreaking than it already was. Making us think that that's it. But I don't see how it COULD be their last kiss, seeing as the Doctor hardly knows River at all yet...

    It just all seems really random and confusing!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 43
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    Well it may be River's last kiss but it's the Doctor's first one so we'll probably see more but River must know in her timeline that this is it.
    Then again, that proves they really are meeting backwards if she believes they won't kiss again.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 54
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    SerenBex wrote: »
    The backwards thing could also be (as has been mentioned before I think) a way of making that kiss even MORE heartbreaking than it already was. Making us think that that's it. But I don't see how it COULD be their last kiss, seeing as the Doctor hardly knows River at all yet...

    It just all seems really random and confusing!

    it wouldnt be their last kiss even if their timelines were running in opposite directions.

    it would have been rivers last kiss, we would see them kiss again though as it would be rivers past in the future episodes.

    then when river has her first kiss with the doctor, it would be the doctors last kiss with her ;)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 45
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    Well it may be River's last kiss but it's the Doctor's first one so we'll probably see more but River must know in her timeline that this is it.
    Then again, that proves they really are meeting backwards if she believes they won't kiss again.

    d3v1ou5 wrote: »
    it wouldnt be their last kiss even if their timelines were running in opposite directions.

    it would have been rivers last kiss, we would see them kiss again though as it would be rivers past in the future episodes.

    then when river has her first kiss with the doctor, it would be the doctors last kiss with her ;)

    See! This is where my brain is far too small to understand what's going on! I have enough trouble with my own life! :P
  • johnnysaucepnjohnnysaucepn Posts: 6,775
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    SerenBex wrote: »
    See! This is where my brain is far too small to understand what's going on! I have enough trouble with my own life! :P
    The Doctor's life runs like this:
    ----------|XXXXXXXX----->
    
    River's runs like this:
    <---------|XXXXXXXX------
    
    where the X's are where they do kisses (obviously), and | is where we are at the end of Day of the Moon.
    As you can see, where the Doctor starts making kissypoos with River is where she stops.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 45
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    haha! thanks for that explanation! much, MUCH clearer! :P

    As long as we see a lot more River I'll be happy anyway!
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 1,399
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    d3v1ou5 wrote: »
    it wouldnt be their last kiss even if their timelines were running in opposite directions.

    it would have been rivers last kiss, we would see them kiss again though as it would be rivers past in the future episodes.

    then when river has her first kiss with the doctor, it would be the doctors last kiss with her ;)

    Agreed. We will see them kiss again because we are travelling with the Doctor. However from River's persective it was her last, and from the shock on her face I believe she realised that as soon as the Doctor said it was his first. Poor River.
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