This has been covered (probably several times), from the absurdity of the premise, the unlikeliness of his family agreeing to it or indeed anybody allowing it to go ahead as presented, the logistics of getting it all run to run smoothly, etc etc. There's no point in going over it again, it's in the last few pages.
This has been covered (probably several times), from the absurdity of the premise, the unlikeliness of his family agreeing to it or indeed anybody allowing it to go ahead as presented, the logistics of getting it all run to run smoothly, etc etc. There's no point in going over it again, it's in the last few pages.
Edit: in fact the really key one I should mention is that it's not possible for Derren to tap somebody on the head, send them into a deep sleep, transport them and change their clothes and reawaken them having no memory of any of that. So once he's encountered Derren on the bus, he definitely knows this is his Derren game. Now you might say "I believe it is possible to do that", in which case I would ask you why you believe that, and what provable scientific grounds you were basing that on, and possibly also remind you that a few pages ago you beileved it was possible for Derren, just by giving a little speech, to subliminally implant a suggestion of a BMX so deep in Simon Pegg's mind that it convinced him he'd written it on his sealed-up piece of paper days previous when he hadn't...
I agreed that your suggestion was the most likely, yet I don't necessarily believe that that was the way it was done. Sorry if I didn't make it clear.
I do believe that people can be fooled, be brainwashed, misdirected, if the circumstances are bizarre enough to throw their normal sense of rationality askew, if they have no one to verify things, if they have no frame of reference for what they are going through.
Do I believe that some people can be instantly thrown into a deep sleep, well yes, I must do or else I wouldn't even be on here arguing about it.
I agreed that your suggestion was the most likely, yet I don't necessarily believe that that was the way it was done. Sorry if I didn't make it clear.
Ah, okay. No problem. We'll definitely agree to disagree then. I'll take the mundane, mechanical, definitely-works solution over the fantastic, not-proven, not-repeatable, clearly-doesn't-work-but-Derren-said-it-does one every time.
Ah, okay. No problem. We'll definitely agree to disagree then. I'll take the mundane, mechanical, definitely-works solution over the fantastic, not-proven, not-repeatable, clearly-doesn't-work-but-Derren-said-it-does one every time.
I think the cleverest thing about Derrens career really is that he has been able to mix and match reality with tricks, real and false explanations, real psychology, fake mentalism style psychological tricks & traditional magic tricks. All often posing as one or the other. It can be so well woven, unless you are in the magic circle, a hypnotist, someone with a in depth knowledge of psychology (as in knowing what has been shown as possible in literature and what has never been done before) it can be very hard to decipher.
Thats when really Derren is at his best I think and is what made him noticed over the many street magicians and mentalists out there. He also refreshingly wasn't claiming to be some god-like figure like alot of annoying american street magicians/mentalists have done, despite doing alot of the same tricks!.
Anyway we more-or-less know that Derren is prepared to make a "trick" out of something that would actually be feasibly possible anyway (The coin trick, all though it still manages to be contentious lets not get back into that lol). He definitely has used hypnotism as a "smoke-screen" for things in the past. I don't think anyone can deny that really.
Heres a really nice example from his early days, he gets a boxer to lift a girl, supposedly hypnotises him or does some "look in to me eyes" kind of thing and suddenly the boxer can't lift her anymore. If you look at his foot placement the second time he has been set to stand with nearly a mater gap so his arms are outstretched. That makes it pretty much impossible to lift her like that. Its a very simple and cleverly done trick!
But anyway I reckon he could of done it for real in the other big events perhaps, I'm not sure!. How I would explain him getting the guy in on it in this case when & if he has done it for real other times? Because of money essentially, the budget for this one has got to be huge, can they really risk it all going tits up, would they want to? Incidentally the producer of this also did "The Real Hustle" which was exposed as having actors in it despite it always saying there are none in the shows.
This is TV guys the fall out from any controversy like this really isn't going to be that damning the media essentially don't care about it to put alot of coverage anyway, most of the public dont really care either, I dont think I even care that much I've just gotten drawn into this debate lol.
While Derren keeps doing his inventive stuff in his stage shows I will still have plenty of respect for the man, totally unfair to compare him to Paul Daniels he is probably one of the best magicians/stage hypnotist going at the moment, and he still beats the hell out of all the corny nonsense that was going on in the 80's and 90's.
Yes, but the first 20 pages of this, possibly reflecting those who tuned it, was of disappointment, that is was rubbish and looked fake. There's only so long people (like me) will tune in to see him do another stunt or illusion that is easily understood, what then? I reckon if he doesn't bring something new to the table (and this was very very much a big-budget version of that zombie video game stunt he did before, with some 'learn not to take things for granted' guff thrown in) his career's got a year or two left at most.
I think a lot of derrens success is because hes derren brown. If another magician had a similar show i bet the majority of people would think it was fake because the magician wasnt well known. Derren has enough followers that whatever he does the loyal ones will believe anything without questioning because he is derren brown.
I remember watching the derren show where he claimed he could get the audience to be stuck in their seats. Nobody in my house got stuck but when i looked online there were so many people claiming they did. I think he said not everyone would be affected by it but that just sounded like a convenient excuse. All the loyal fans who wanted it to work just stayed sitting down and believed it.
Yes, but the first 20 pages of this, possibly reflecting those who tuned it, was of disappointment, that is was rubbish and looked fake. There's only so long people (like me) will tune in to see him do another stunt or illusion that is easily understood, what then? I reckon if he doesn't bring something new to the table (and this was very very much a big-budget version of that zombie video game stunt he did before, with some 'learn not to take things for granted' guff thrown in) his career's got a year or two left at most.
you could be right sadly, to be honest I missed Hero and alot of the tric or treat ones because I dont really enjoy the format, as theres not alot to it really regardless of whether it is "real" or "fake". I dont think the quality of the stage shows has gone down as much however.
You should develop your own cognitive thinking and stop believing ANYTHING without fact to support it. That includes what Derren says AND anyone on here!
I think a lot of derrens success is because hes derren brown. If another magician had a similar show i bet the majority of people would think it was fake because the magician wasnt well known. Derren has enough followers that whatever he does the loyal ones will believe anything without questioning because he is derren brown.
I remember watching the derren show where he claimed he could get the audience to be stuck in their seats. Nobody in my house got stuck but when i looked online there were so many people claiming they did. I think he said not everyone would be affected by it but that just sounded like a convenient excuse. All the loyal fans who wanted it to work just stayed sitting down and believed it.
Well I consider myself a fan, but I didn't get stuck. But hypnotism only works if the person is suggestible. Not that people deliberately stay stuck, they are just more open minded to the possibility that they will stay stuck. If a person is very resistant, no one would be able to hypnotise them.
Well we have a beginning, Steven takes his Mum and Dad for granted no appreciation for anything except maybe his brother(the thespian). And the end is obvious he'll be transported back home to Kansas via a pair of red Addidas Sambas, to tell his mum how much he loves her and he will determine to make her proud of him. What about the middle then the hurdles he has to negociate to get to the transformation? any ideas. I recon he will encounter his 2 mates and his bro (the thespian) in the guise of courage, heart, and brains. On his quest to find the girls Mum, she or his own mum will be infected and he will have to seek out the great Welsh Wiz who can cure the infected will show him the way to go home a changed person. Any other ideas
Well I consider myself a fan, but I didn't get stuck. But hypnotism only works if the person is suggestible. Not that people deliberately stay stuck, they are just more open minded to the possibility that they will stay stuck. If a person is very resistant, no one would be able to hypnotise them.
This is from memory (so forgive any slight errors, the gist should be correct) but he prefaced this with a speech about how it wouldn't work if you recorded the segment or watched it on YouTube, because the resolution of the picture wouldn't be right or something. So, you know, you couldn't just play it to people and make them stick. Which was, frankly, an utter toss excuse, as there's nothing to say that anybody's streaming or recorded resolution would be any worse than someone else's live TV picture :rolleyes: It's a load of nonsense.
Well I consider myself a fan, but I didn't get stuck. But hypnotism only works if the person is suggestible. Not that people deliberately stay stuck, they are just more open minded to the possibility that they will stay stuck. If a person is very resistant, no one would be able to hypnotise them.
I watched it and really wanted it to work. I even tried watching it in different positions, different chairs and nothing happened. So i guess part of my scepticism is that it didnt work on me so how can i believe it worked on other people.
The only thing thats ever worked on me was that thing kids pick up at school where someone makes you do a pattern of arm movements then without touching you make your arms raise by themselves. That amazed me as it worked
Yeah, I actually removed that bit from my post, but you were too damn quick to quote it! I thought I'd spotted it, but then I wasn't sure, so I took it out as it's not important anyway.
As to why.... erm... fairly obviously, to get his accomplice (who knows how to act as medium) to be selected in a way which seems utterly random, which is I'm sure how nearly everybody who has seen that segment thought.
Are you saying that he DOES draw a cross, but for no apparent reason hides it, and the cross she shows matches up with the pen strokes we see him make? Is that your position?
A few posts gone by but I'll reply anyway. I dont see any nail writer maybe you could tell me which finger of which hand its on? Also this was a pre-recorded show,edited,so its possible something has happened we havent seen.
To all those saying Steven wouldnt fall for it,did you not see Space cadets a few years ago? Ever see Noel Edmonds Gotchas? Jeremy Beadle stunts? People are suprisingly naive and dont assume strange situations are a stunt.
I'm firmly in the camp of what you see is "real" in this situation.
A few posts gone by but I'll reply anyway. I dont see any nail writer maybe you could tell me which finger of which hand its on? Also this was a pre-recorded show,edited,so its possible something has happened we havent seen.
I told you, I removed that bit almost immediately from my post - I thought I saw it, but then I wasn't sure on looking back, so I deleted it because it's not important. Forget I ever wrote it please, I don't want an argument about actually seeing the nail-writer, because it's a distraction as it doesn't matter. It's not the point.
He opted for this method, which for 99.9% of people watching was good enough anyway, but unfortunately left a telltale sign in for the more discerning viewer.
:D:D:D Thank you for giving me another good laugh.
A few posts gone by but I'll reply anyway. I dont see any nail writer maybe you could tell me which finger of which hand its on? Also this was a pre-recorded show,edited,so its possible something has happened we havent seen.
To all those saying Steven wouldnt fall for it,did you not see Space cadets a few years ago? Ever see Noel Edmonds Gotchas? Jeremy Beadle stunts? People are suprisingly naive and dont assume strange situations are a stunt.
I'm firmly in the camp of what you see is "real" in this situation.
I'd refer him back to his speech in The System about Homeopathy - people who it appears to have worked for will strongly believe that they KNOW it to work whereas in fact that's nothing but a statement about how much they believe it to be true, it has no actual basis in fact).
In other words a bit like all your pontificating about how you know for certain how he does different things, when in fact you really don't.
Incidentally the producer of this also did "The Real Hustle" which was exposed as having actors in it despite it always saying there are none in the shows..
Er was it? When you say "exposed" what do you mean exactly? I was an extra in that series.
atg, wanna contribute or just throw lame insults at people?
Those weren't lame insults, I really believe them to be true.
The insults have largely been coming from the other side by the way. All the gullible, fanboy stuff.
Magicians have been described as liars. The only liars are the ones who claim to have proof all these things are deceptions, but the proof turns out to be speculative and circumstantial at best.
Comments
I think we'll have to agree to disagree.
I agreed that your suggestion was the most likely, yet I don't necessarily believe that that was the way it was done. Sorry if I didn't make it clear.
I do believe that people can be fooled, be brainwashed, misdirected, if the circumstances are bizarre enough to throw their normal sense of rationality askew, if they have no one to verify things, if they have no frame of reference for what they are going through.
Do I believe that some people can be instantly thrown into a deep sleep, well yes, I must do or else I wouldn't even be on here arguing about it.
Fair enough.
Thats when really Derren is at his best I think and is what made him noticed over the many street magicians and mentalists out there. He also refreshingly wasn't claiming to be some god-like figure like alot of annoying american street magicians/mentalists have done, despite doing alot of the same tricks!.
Anyway we more-or-less know that Derren is prepared to make a "trick" out of something that would actually be feasibly possible anyway (The coin trick, all though it still manages to be contentious lets not get back into that lol). He definitely has used hypnotism as a "smoke-screen" for things in the past. I don't think anyone can deny that really.
Heres a really nice example from his early days, he gets a boxer to lift a girl, supposedly hypnotises him or does some "look in to me eyes" kind of thing and suddenly the boxer can't lift her anymore. If you look at his foot placement the second time he has been set to stand with nearly a mater gap so his arms are outstretched. That makes it pretty much impossible to lift her like that. Its a very simple and cleverly done trick!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cieY16Ad80
But anyway I reckon he could of done it for real in the other big events perhaps, I'm not sure!. How I would explain him getting the guy in on it in this case when & if he has done it for real other times? Because of money essentially, the budget for this one has got to be huge, can they really risk it all going tits up, would they want to? Incidentally the producer of this also did "The Real Hustle" which was exposed as having actors in it despite it always saying there are none in the shows.
This is TV guys the fall out from any controversy like this really isn't going to be that damning the media essentially don't care about it to put alot of coverage anyway, most of the public dont really care either, I dont think I even care that much I've just gotten drawn into this debate lol.
While Derren keeps doing his inventive stuff in his stage shows I will still have plenty of respect for the man, totally unfair to compare him to Paul Daniels he is probably one of the best magicians/stage hypnotist going at the moment, and he still beats the hell out of all the corny nonsense that was going on in the 80's and 90's.
I remember watching the derren show where he claimed he could get the audience to be stuck in their seats. Nobody in my house got stuck but when i looked online there were so many people claiming they did. I think he said not everyone would be affected by it but that just sounded like a convenient excuse. All the loyal fans who wanted it to work just stayed sitting down and believed it.
you could be right sadly, to be honest I missed Hero and alot of the tric or treat ones because I dont really enjoy the format, as theres not alot to it really regardless of whether it is "real" or "fake". I dont think the quality of the stage shows has gone down as much however.
Thanks for the tip :rolleyes:
Well I consider myself a fan, but I didn't get stuck. But hypnotism only works if the person is suggestible. Not that people deliberately stay stuck, they are just more open minded to the possibility that they will stay stuck. If a person is very resistant, no one would be able to hypnotise them.
I watched it and really wanted it to work. I even tried watching it in different positions, different chairs and nothing happened. So i guess part of my scepticism is that it didnt work on me so how can i believe it worked on other people.
The only thing thats ever worked on me was that thing kids pick up at school where someone makes you do a pattern of arm movements then without touching you make your arms raise by themselves. That amazed me as it worked
A few posts gone by but I'll reply anyway. I dont see any nail writer maybe you could tell me which finger of which hand its on? Also this was a pre-recorded show,edited,so its possible something has happened we havent seen.
To all those saying Steven wouldnt fall for it,did you not see Space cadets a few years ago? Ever see Noel Edmonds Gotchas? Jeremy Beadle stunts? People are suprisingly naive and dont assume strange situations are a stunt.
I'm firmly in the camp of what you see is "real" in this situation.
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-entertainment/derren-brown-audience-is-fake-2012103046915
The car is still for sale if you want it!
I loved "Space cadets" (Yes I was the only one!)
Long live Minsky!
As I understand it, people were told to 'play along.' Sound familiar?
The insults have largely been coming from the other side by the way. All the gullible, fanboy stuff.
Magicians have been described as liars. The only liars are the ones who claim to have proof all these things are deceptions, but the proof turns out to be speculative and circumstantial at best.