There is one other good phone which is available quite cheaply that I forgot about. It is available at moment £140-160 and is the HTC One SV it supports both DC-HSDPA and LTE.
So there is 3 good one's Nokia Lumia 820, HTC One SV and Xperia SP.
I've got some concerns tonight. After getting 10-12Mbps in speed tests over the weekend, it's dropped to somewhere between 1Mbps and 4Mbps tonight which is a huge drop. Is there any likelihood that Three are on to me or is it just one of those things?
I've got some concerns tonight. After getting 10-12Mbps in speed tests over the weekend, it's dropped to somewhere between 1Mbps and 4Mbps tonight which is a huge drop. Is there any likelihood that Three are on to me or is it just one of those things?
Highly likely as I posted quite a few times before, there is throttling in place on tethering as it's not a full mobile broadband package. Throttling happens between 3PM and 12 midnight and is dependent on your usage and the load from other people tethering.
This is all posted on the Three 'about Trafficsense' page I linked to before. If the One Plan was designed as an ADSL replacement they would have sold it as such! It is designed as a phone plan for users to be able to create a hotspot if they wish for some tethering, however mobile broadband and phone customers get higher traffic priority at peak times.
But is trafficsense there to pick on those who they deem to have abused the service or is it a general throttling for everyone during this time? I must admit I did quite a lot of downloading last night at around 11pm (updating pretty much all my android apps on phone & tablet) and since then the speed has dropped so much that I may as well just connect back onto my ADSL router. It's very intermittent though - I've been running lots of speed checks and one minute it'll be 4Mbps and the next it'll be less than a meg. It's infuriating, particularly when trying to watch something on iPlayer.
Everyone. It's a generic network level prioritization/QoS service.
Incidentally it seems to allow unlimited speed bursts for a second or two even on throttled users - I often see it kicking up to 20-25Mbps for one or two seconds before I get throttled back down to 2Mbps.
OK there's my proof, just tested it (after midnight) & it's back at 10 meg. It's strange that this didn't start happening for a few days but i'm just gonna have to experiment. Glad I only took the 1 month contract option!
OK there's my proof, just tested it (after midnight) & it's back at 10 meg. It's strange that this didn't start happening for a few days but i'm just gonna have to experiment. Glad I only took the 1 month contract option!
I did post ages ago that this is the case, it is because tethering and creating a portable hotspot is not meant to replace mobile broadband. If you buy the 15 gig for £16 with a mifi you'll get uninterrupted, non trafficsensed data and you'll get traffic priority. In most cases using mobile data on the phone you'll be unrestricted too, but tethering on the One plan is meant to be unlimited so you have no fear of running up a bill, but use lots of data and it is throttled.
It will become more apparent when they launch 4G, on the phone you'll get 20megs +, so will you with an LTE mobile broadband dongle or mifi, and they'll launch some fixed data tariffs like EE and others have.
The problem is people think "I'll be a TP link and get unlimited broadband for £15" which is a nice idea, but not practical which is why no network offers unlimited mobile broadband. What you get with Three is fixed broadband or the One Plan with unlimited data that will be throttled for tethering, if you are a heavy data user you'll see more throttling. You may still only get 5Mb/s or less when you use a lot of data and tether all the time on 4G.
Suppose for people in the sticks who can't get proper ADSL, it's still the better option.
Absolutely, but just as long as people know they will get a lower traffic priority and their speeds might become a lot slower from 3PM to Midnight, also that they may tweak Trafficsense from time to time. The plan was designed primarily as a phone plan with a unlimited (by data cap) tethering included, rather than unlimited broadband. A good option, but only if your ADSL is very slow.
Absolutely, but just as long as people know they will get a lower traffic priority and their speeds might become a lot slower from 3PM to Midnight, also that they may tweak Trafficsense from time to time. The plan was designed primarily as a phone plan with a unlimited (by data cap) tethering included, rather than unlimited broadband. A good option, but only if your ADSL is very slow.
Thanks for all this info. Very useful. I'm one of those where it would be worth it. I get 1.2Mbps data throughput on a good day ADSL so even a throttled 2meg connection would be better.
Also my ADSL upload is about 650Kbps whereas 3G is doing about 1.3Mbps.
I wonder if they'll throttle the upload on 4G?
I sometimes need to upload a customers PC data to Livedrive and 40GB can take a few days on ADSL.
It would be a few hours on 4G (done after midnight).
My Three One Plan SIM works fine in my laptop's built-in 3G modem, smartphone, 3G router and USB dongle.
They do block some of their own dongles, but only their own because they can identify them by IMEI.
Ok so you're saying that if you use a generic dongle (say, a TP-Link dongle in a TP-Link 3G router), then Three can't tell its a dongle?
I thought the IMEI identifies the type of device as well as all the other info it contains. Surely they would still know its a dongle?
Furthermore, if we just assume for the moment they can't detect a dongle, how does Trafficsense "see"" the data use, tethering or handset?
While an IMEI can identify a device type, each and every device type prefix is determined by the manufacturer and there is no complete nor public list of every device model and its corresponding IMEI TAC. Hence, unless 3 already know it, by having their own list of their own devices, there is no way to tell.
Trafficsense on the other hand has been discussed many times before. Put simply it inspects the data you send over the network. Google it if you want to know the precise details.
While an IMEI can identify a device type, each and every device type prefix is determined by the manufacturer and there is no complete nor public list of every device model and its corresponding IMEI TAC. Hence, unless 3 already know it, by having their own list of their own devices, there is no way to tell.
Trafficsense on the other hand has been discussed many times before. Put simply it inspects the data you send over the network. Google it if you want to know the precise details.
I have. That's why I was asking, in case you knew!
It says........
"But, for example, between 3pm and 12 midnight, we dedicate a certain amount of bandwidth to file sharing and to tethering"
It doesn't answer my question.
I'm not going to be doing P2P so that leaves tethering.
So the big question (which isn't answered) is if you're using an unidentified device can they detect the type of use. In other words, would they see a dongle in a 3G router as tethering?
What I'm really getting at, is how do they detect tethering? Does a handset signal that it's tethering?
I don't see how they can detect NAT from the WAN side of a firewall.
I believe it's based on deep packet inspection, they would then use either QoS or well known TCP disruption mechanisms to slow down and rate limited the connection. The way TCP works is it doesn't know what the best rate of data throughput is, so it starts of and increases speeds until packets start to get lost and finds an optimum. There are known mechanisms to artificially throttle speeds by mimicking what would happen when the connection really reaches it's maximum throughput.
There have also been various links to articles and research papers on how to detect tethering or determine device type based on inspecting network traffic, which I cannot be bothered to look up for you right now, but again they're on the forum already.
The thing is Devon, no they can't tell easily from the device, but what they can tell easily from is the traffic. A desktop browser identifies differently in the User Agent string, that will allow Three's deep packet inspection to identity that it is tethered data. Yes you could download addons to your browsers to spoof or change this, but then you will get mobile pages loading on your desktop or laptop and it wanting to push you to apps, rather than play flash videos etc.
Also, is it the only thing Three detect on? who knows, that is definitely 100% confirmed something that they do detect on, but there is other giveaway OS and application traffic they they might also use.
While an IMEI can identify a device type, each and every device type prefix is determined by the manufacturer and there is no complete nor public list of every device model and its corresponding IMEI TAC. Hence, unless 3 already know it, by having their own list of their own devices, there is no way to tell.
It would explain why the US operators seem to have no trouble identifying phones that were not bought through them (particlularly smartphones/tablets when they are used on cheaper plans) and why unofficial websites have no real trouble identifying phone make/models from IMEI numbers. If they can do it, 3 certainly could, but perhaps they consider the chances of people using non-3 dongles too low to bother.
Effective [April 1, 2004], many GSM member nations and entities (mainly Europe) moved away from requiring that devices be approved by national bodies, and towards a system where device manufacturers self-regulate the device market. As a result, a manufacturer now simply requests an eight-digit Type Allocation Code for a new phone model from the international GSM standards body, instead of submitting a device for approval to a national review body.
Which explains why operators in the US have no problem identifying devices by IMEI, they still use a central registration system (handled by the FCC IIRC)
The thing is Devon, no they can't tell easily from the device, but what they can tell easily from is the traffic. A desktop browser identifies differently in the User Agent string, that will allow Three's deep packet inspection to identity that it is tethered data. Yes you could download addons to your browsers to spoof or change this, but then you will get mobile pages loading on your desktop or laptop and it wanting to push you to apps, rather than play flash videos etc.
Also, is it the only thing Three detect on? who knows, that is definitely 100% confirmed something that they do detect on, but there is other giveaway OS and application traffic they they might also use.
The simplest and easiest way around all that is a VPN. I'm surprised that doesn't get mentioned on this site more often - it's pretty much the default go-to solution on every other forum for anything to do with DPI.
Which explains why operators in the US have no problem identifying devices by IMEI, they still use a central registration system (handled by the FCC IIRC)
I have only skim read but that doesn't say they don't need to register TACs - only that a formal approval process is abolished. They still have to apply for TACs by the sounds of it as per the document I linked to (and your link even references the GSM Association)
1. The GSM Association funded an administrator to issue TAC codes to UE
Manufacturers following the supply of a limited amount of information. Currently BABT are filling this role and are supplying TAC codes with 35 in the first two
digits of the TAC.
Your document also predates mine (which lists the "new" IMEI format).
It's not just the US who can detect devices, too - T-Mobile somehow manage it. I have a SIM only contract and an iPhone bought directly from Apple - yet calling 150 gets me "thank you for calling T-Mobile iPhone support" despite never telling them what I have.
The simplest and easiest way around all that is a VPN. I'm surprised that doesn't get mentioned on this site more often - it's pretty much the default go-to solution on every other forum for anything to do with DPI.
You are right, however you have to pay for decent VPN services, free ones are normally limited or slow. Also they then know the traffic is being used on a VPN due to ports and for other reasons, so that's unlikely to be normal phone use either and could be put into the tethering pool if it becomes very popular.
Aside from the tethering pool the top 5% of phone data users get capped to a maximum of 5% of network resource between them from 3PM to Midnight!
These restrictions aren't in place because they want to annoy people, but because they want to be fair to all users and let others enjoy good network performance. As mentioned before the official mobile broadband tariffs are not throttled or restricted by traffic sense, neither is 95% of phone users data.
You are right, however you have to pay for decent VPN services, free ones are normally limited or slow. Also they then know the traffic is being used on a VPN due to ports and for other reasons, so that's unlikely to be normal phone use either and could be put into the tethering pool if it becomes very popular.
Aside from the tethering pool the top 5% of phone data users get capped to a maximum of 5% of network resource between them from 3PM to Midnight!
These restrictions aren't in place because they want to annoy people, but because they want to be fair to all users and let others enjoy good network performance. As mentioned before the official mobile broadband tariffs are not throttled or restricted by traffic sense, neither is 95% of phone users data.
Using a VPN actually manages to get around Three detecting tethering.
This is Three's current published stance on caps and throttling. It sounds like you may be right Jabbank1, but it is subject to change at any time.
There are 2 sections to the document below, first data limit caps where they confirm there is no data cap on The One plan, but are on other tariffs.
Section 2 is about throttling, here is what they say in section 2:
Is traffic management used during peak hours? Yes
When are typical peak hours? Weekdays:15:00 – 00.00 Weekends: 15:00 – 00.00
What type of traffic is managed during these periods?***
Traffic type Blocked Slowed down Prioritised
Peer to Peer (P2P) π
Is traffic management used to manage congestion in particular locations? All sites
If so how? We allocate a fixed amount of network bandwidth to P2P file-sharing activities and to tethering activities at peak times to manage network congestion and provide the best possible experience for the greatest number of users.
We use video optimisation to change the way video content is streamed to your device to make it play better. We use it to improve your streaming experience if our network is busy where you are.
We’re currently trialling different ways of using TrafficSense™ to get the best out of our network for the greatest number of users. This includes evaluating techniques that would affect a small proportion of the heaviest users at peak times. Before we implement anything new we’ll clearly explain to you how it works, and we’ll let you know if you are likely to be affected. Our approaches may vary over time in order to meet network demand.
Comments
So there is 3 good one's Nokia Lumia 820, HTC One SV and Xperia SP.
Highly likely as I posted quite a few times before, there is throttling in place on tethering as it's not a full mobile broadband package. Throttling happens between 3PM and 12 midnight and is dependent on your usage and the load from other people tethering.
This is all posted on the Three 'about Trafficsense' page I linked to before. If the One Plan was designed as an ADSL replacement they would have sold it as such! It is designed as a phone plan for users to be able to create a hotspot if they wish for some tethering, however mobile broadband and phone customers get higher traffic priority at peak times.
Incidentally it seems to allow unlimited speed bursts for a second or two even on throttled users - I often see it kicking up to 20-25Mbps for one or two seconds before I get throttled back down to 2Mbps.
I did post ages ago that this is the case, it is because tethering and creating a portable hotspot is not meant to replace mobile broadband. If you buy the 15 gig for £16 with a mifi you'll get uninterrupted, non trafficsensed data and you'll get traffic priority. In most cases using mobile data on the phone you'll be unrestricted too, but tethering on the One plan is meant to be unlimited so you have no fear of running up a bill, but use lots of data and it is throttled.
It will become more apparent when they launch 4G, on the phone you'll get 20megs +, so will you with an LTE mobile broadband dongle or mifi, and they'll launch some fixed data tariffs like EE and others have.
The problem is people think "I'll be a TP link and get unlimited broadband for £15" which is a nice idea, but not practical which is why no network offers unlimited mobile broadband. What you get with Three is fixed broadband or the One Plan with unlimited data that will be throttled for tethering, if you are a heavy data user you'll see more throttling. You may still only get 5Mb/s or less when you use a lot of data and tether all the time on 4G.
Suppose for people in the sticks who can't get proper ADSL, it's still the better option.
Absolutely, but just as long as people know they will get a lower traffic priority and their speeds might become a lot slower from 3PM to Midnight, also that they may tweak Trafficsense from time to time. The plan was designed primarily as a phone plan with a unlimited (by data cap) tethering included, rather than unlimited broadband. A good option, but only if your ADSL is very slow.
Thanks for all this info. Very useful. I'm one of those where it would be worth it. I get 1.2Mbps data throughput on a good day ADSL so even a throttled 2meg connection would be better.
Also my ADSL upload is about 650Kbps whereas 3G is doing about 1.3Mbps.
I wonder if they'll throttle the upload on 4G?
I sometimes need to upload a customers PC data to Livedrive and 40GB can take a few days on ADSL.
It would be a few hours on 4G (done after midnight).
Ok so you're saying that if you use a generic dongle (say, a TP-Link dongle in a TP-Link 3G router), then Three can't tell its a dongle?
I thought the IMEI identifies the type of device as well as all the other info it contains. Surely they would still know its a dongle?
Furthermore, if we just assume for the moment they can't detect a dongle, how does Trafficsense "see"" the data use, tethering or handset?
Trafficsense on the other hand has been discussed many times before. Put simply it inspects the data you send over the network. Google it if you want to know the precise details.
I have. That's why I was asking, in case you knew!
It says........
"But, for example, between 3pm and 12 midnight, we dedicate a certain amount of bandwidth to file sharing and to tethering"
It doesn't answer my question.
I'm not going to be doing P2P so that leaves tethering.
So the big question (which isn't answered) is if you're using an unidentified device can they detect the type of use. In other words, would they see a dongle in a 3G router as tethering?
What I'm really getting at, is how do they detect tethering? Does a handset signal that it's tethering?
I don't see how they can detect NAT from the WAN side of a firewall.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=how+does+trafficsense+work
First result:
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1881856
There have also been various links to articles and research papers on how to detect tethering or determine device type based on inspecting network traffic, which I cannot be bothered to look up for you right now, but again they're on the forum already.
Thanks
Also, is it the only thing Three detect on? who knows, that is definitely 100% confirmed something that they do detect on, but there is other giveaway OS and application traffic they they might also use.
I hope that helps.
http://www.gsma.com/newsroom/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/ts0660tacallocationprocessapproved.pdf suggests that each "ME type" (which I take to mean model) needs one or more TACs which can only be used against that ME type. The allocation of TACs is registered centrally and that data is available to network operators.
It would explain why the US operators seem to have no trouble identifying phones that were not bought through them (particlularly smartphones/tablets when they are used on cheaper plans) and why unofficial websites have no real trouble identifying phone make/models from IMEI numbers. If they can do it, 3 certainly could, but perhaps they consider the chances of people using non-3 dongles too low to bother.
Not in Europe.
http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/tsg_sa/TSG_SA/TSGS_16/Docs/PDF/SP-020237.pdf
Which explains why operators in the US have no problem identifying devices by IMEI, they still use a central registration system (handled by the FCC IIRC)
I have only skim read but that doesn't say they don't need to register TACs - only that a formal approval process is abolished. They still have to apply for TACs by the sounds of it as per the document I linked to (and your link even references the GSM Association)
Your document also predates mine (which lists the "new" IMEI format).
It's not just the US who can detect devices, too - T-Mobile somehow manage it. I have a SIM only contract and an iPhone bought directly from Apple - yet calling 150 gets me "thank you for calling T-Mobile iPhone support" despite never telling them what I have.
You are right, however you have to pay for decent VPN services, free ones are normally limited or slow. Also they then know the traffic is being used on a VPN due to ports and for other reasons, so that's unlikely to be normal phone use either and could be put into the tethering pool if it becomes very popular.
Aside from the tethering pool the top 5% of phone data users get capped to a maximum of 5% of network resource between them from 3PM to Midnight!
These restrictions aren't in place because they want to annoy people, but because they want to be fair to all users and let others enjoy good network performance. As mentioned before the official mobile broadband tariffs are not throttled or restricted by traffic sense, neither is 95% of phone users data.
Using a VPN actually manages to get around Three detecting tethering.
I'm fairly certain this no longer applies.
This is Three's current published stance on caps and throttling. It sounds like you may be right Jabbank1, but it is subject to change at any time.
There are 2 sections to the document below, first data limit caps where they confirm there is no data cap on The One plan, but are on other tariffs.
Section 2 is about throttling, here is what they say in section 2:
Is traffic management used during peak hours? Yes
When are typical peak hours? Weekdays:15:00 – 00.00 Weekends: 15:00 – 00.00
What type of traffic is managed during these periods?***
Traffic type Blocked Slowed down Prioritised
Peer to Peer (P2P) π
Is traffic management used to manage congestion in particular locations? All sites
If so how? We allocate a fixed amount of network bandwidth to P2P file-sharing activities and to tethering activities at peak times to manage network congestion and provide the best possible experience for the greatest number of users.
We use video optimisation to change the way video content is streamed to your device to make it play better. We use it to improve your streaming experience if our network is busy where you are.
We’re currently trialling different ways of using TrafficSense™ to get the best out of our network for the greatest number of users. This includes evaluating techniques that would affect a small proportion of the heaviest users at peak times. Before we implement anything new we’ll clearly explain to you how it works, and we’ll let you know if you are likely to be affected. Our approaches may vary over time in order to meet network demand.