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Scottish independence: let's have an honest debate (P3)

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    kidspudkidspud Posts: 18,341
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    thms wrote: »
    He is the same age as my mum and she is voting Yes

    I'm sure that is what she tells you;-)
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    mimik1ukmimik1uk Posts: 46,701
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    kidspud wrote: »
    I'm sure that is what she tells you;-)

    "i better tell him i'm voting yes so he stops sending me all these links"

    ;-):D:p
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    smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    Perhaps someone can confirm stories that I've seen about BT paying "volunteers" about £8.00 per hour to canvass and even bussing Cambridge students up to campaign? Are there any similar stories about Yes Scotland paying people or bussing them up from England? Are all these wages properly taxed or taken into account for benefits?
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    CoolSharpHarpCoolSharpHarp Posts: 7,565
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    thms wrote: »
    He is the same age as my mum and she is voting Yes

    I'm not sure of the relevance of your mothers voting intentions, but thanks for letting me know... it's been keeping me up at night :D
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    BillyJamesTBillyJamesT Posts: 2,934
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    http://yes2014.net/2014/08/01/oil-around-shetland-could-be-more-than-it-appears/

    Shenanigans around Claire Field?

    In an exclusive turn of events, several anonymous sources have advised us about strange going on’s in the Clair field near Shetland. A few days ago we were made aware that contractors working for BP were stood down after obtaining the results of the latest test drilling statistics.

    We have had other information that contractors have in fact been sent home on full pay just after receiving these results and that they were advised that they would not be recalled until after the referendum. All of this happened just shortly before Prime Minister David Cameron became the first Prime Minister to visit Shetland in 34 years. His visit was shrouded in secrecy and up until he was snapped by a photographer getting off the plane had been denied altogether.
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    thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-21955536

    Clair is already known as a "monster" field, holding eight billion barrels of oil.
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    smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    thms wrote: »
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-21955536

    Clair is already known as a "monster" field, holding eight billion barrels of oil.

    Stooip or reserves?

    Plus the classification would be super giant, not monster.
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    thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    Stooip or reserves?

    Plus the classification would be super giant, not monster.

    Pages 15/16 give more information about the Clare Field.

    http://www.geoscience.co.uk/assets/file/Paleozoic%20Clastic%20and%20carbonate%20Reservoirs%20-countries%20with%20Hydrocarbon%20Field-%20November%202013.pdf
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    smudges dadsmudges dad Posts: 36,989
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    thms wrote: »

    Just shows journalists don't know what they are writing about and the dangers of quoting chunks out of context. Not 8 billion barrels, but 640 million barrels over 40 years. Slight difference ant won't impact Scottish independence economics which are fine without oil.
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    thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    Just shows journalists don't know what they are writing about and the dangers of quoting chunks out of context. Not 8 billion barrels, but 640 million barrels over 40 years. Slight difference ant won't impact Scottish independence economics which are fine without oil.

    While that link says it is the largest field on the UKCS, it does say how large it is.

    The article was mainly about a part under development. It really is a giant..

    This wiki entry says 5 billion.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_oilfield

    The Clare Field is on the Atlantic Margin which runs down the west coast of Scotland down the west coast of Ireland, which is thought to have substantial reserves of oil and gas.. Clare could be the tip of the iceberg..

    The Scottish Government has recently announced several marine protection areas around Scotland.

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/marine/marine-environment/mpanetwork

    I wonder if this is a precursor to the government announcing/permitting oil and gas developments in the other areas.
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    Black SheepBlack Sheep Posts: 15,219
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    thms wrote: »
    While that link says it is the largest field on the UKCS, it does say how large it is.

    The article was mainly about a part under development. It really is a giant..

    This wiki entry says 5 billion.

    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clair_oilfield

    The Clare Field is on the Atlantic Margin which runs down the west coast of Scotland down the west coast of Ireland, which is thought to have substantial reserves of oil and gas.. Clare could be the tip of the iceberg..

    The Scottish Government has recently announced several marine protection areas around Scotland.

    http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/marine/marine-environment/mpanetwork

    I wonder if this is a precursor to the government announcing/permitting oil and gas developments in the other areas.

    You make it seem like it's all about Oil, when really it's not.

    Why would marine protection be linked to Oil exploration/production?
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    Black SheepBlack Sheep Posts: 15,219
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    thms wrote: »
    He is the same age as my mum and she is voting Yes

    Has your Mum been involved politically with the SNP since 1961 and held any posts in that organisation?
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    Ian AberdonIan Aberdon Posts: 2,172
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    Oh my God Black Sheep - are you really so obsessed that you have to post daily, and at 0520hrs today??!
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    Black SheepBlack Sheep Posts: 15,219
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    Oh my God Black Sheep - are you really so obsessed that you have to post daily, and at 0520hrs today??!

    What time should I post that suits you?
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    thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/987/worlds-largest-oil-field-not-found-the-mystery-surrounding-the-prime-ministers-shetland-visit/

    "World’s Largest Oil Field NOT Found - The Mystery Surrounding the Prime Minister's Shetland Visit"
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    Black SheepBlack Sheep Posts: 15,219
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    thms wrote: »
    http://www.oilandgaspeople.com/news/987/worlds-largest-oil-field-not-found-the-mystery-surrounding-the-prime-ministers-shetland-visit/

    "World’s Largest Oil Field NOT Found - The Mystery Surrounding the Prime Minister's Shetland Visit"

    Being absolutely rational here, it's not something the Govt could practically cover up, an oil field that's the worlds largest. I mean, why would the PM need to travel to Shetland to personally cover up something of this magnitude.

    It really is Tinfoil time with some of the claims that some of the separatists come out with regarding Oil.
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    Ian AberdonIan Aberdon Posts: 2,172
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    Oh my God Black Sheep - are you really so obsessed that you have to post daily, and at 0520hrs today??!
    What time should I post that suits you?

    Preferably? Not at all.
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    thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    Being absolutely rational here, it's not something the Govt could practically cover up, an oil field that's the worlds largest. I mean, why would the PM need to travel to Shetland to personally cover up something of this magnitude.

    It really is Tinfoil time with some of the claims that some of the separatists come out with regarding Oil.

    Have you heard of the McCrone Report?
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    BillyJamesTBillyJamesT Posts: 2,934
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    thms wrote: »
    Have you heard of the McCrone Report?

    Was he the Westminster economist who calculated that with North Sea oil an independent Scotland would be so rich it would be embarrassing? His report was buried and kept top secret by consecutive Westminster governments untill Alex Salmond pressured them through FOI to hand over the books on Scotlands economy, wasn't it? But hold on if that's true then Westminster telling Scots that Scotland is so heavily subsidised by England that is nothing more than a country of subsidy junkies well that's just taking the piss surely?
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    BillyJamesTBillyJamesT Posts: 2,934
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    http://www.weourselves.com/on-sept-18-scots-can-gift-cameron-westminster-2-5-trillion-of-their-money-to-spend-on-improving-londons-infrastructure/

    Cameron tries to “McCrone Report” evidence of vast new oil field in Scottish waters.

    News of “World’s largest oil field” discovered in Scottish waters is being suppressed till Sept 19, claim.

    £2.5 TRILLION of Scotland’s wealth said to be at stake as Cameron seeks to suppress news of vast new oil reserves until after the referendum.:o
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    jjwalesjjwales Posts: 48,574
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    Preferably? Not at all.

    Now now Ian, no need for unpleasantness!
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    AidyAidy Posts: 2,361
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    Orri wrote: »
    1) If Camelot, or whoever is employed at that time, are not running the Scottish Lottery then their equipment would no longer be of any use and thus surplus. That'd be a buyers market.
    2) Even if, and I see you're assuming we'd be in the EU, it was put out to tender it should be obvious that Camelot would almost certainly win as they'd have the lowest set up cost due to already owning a network of machines suited to the task.
    3) Even though the chances of winning would stay the same you miss the point that the chances of someone winning the jackpot in a given week are tied to the
    number of people taking part. I suggest you research the chances of sharing a birthday for a start.
    4) A lower number of balls increase the chances of winning.
    5) Are you really suggesting that Camelot would somehow be barred by the rUK from bidding for a contract.
    6) Your comment about plug and play only makes sense in the context of an existing system. You're don't seem to know what you're talking about there.

    Orri wrote: »
    1) If Camelot, or whoever is employed at that time, are not running the Scottish Lottery then their equipment would no longer be of any use and thus surplus. That'd be a buyers market.

    A very simplistic view. What is in the retailers contract about return of machines? Whose responsibility is it to return? Is it compatible with adding on another lottery?

    The machines would still be of use in rUK, they could be used for spares, they could be used for replacements...so not necessairly a buyers market as you suggest but I can just imagine someone like Del Boy selling them 2 for a tenner at the Barrowlands.
    Orri wrote: »
    2) Even if, and I see you're assuming we'd be in the EU, it was put out to tender it should be obvious that Camelot would almost certainly win as they'd have the lowest set up cost due to already owning a network of machines suited to the task.

    BIB - first go at deflection. How predictable.

    You do realise that the Scottish Government have their own procurement rules so it would have to be put out to tender? Glad to see you have already decided who would win.
    Orri wrote: »
    3) Even though the chances of winning would stay the same you miss the point that the chances of someone winning the jackpot in a given week are tied to the
    number of people taking part. I suggest you research the chances of sharing a birthday for a start.

    Currently if I put £2 on the national lottery draw I have a 14m to 1 chance of winning at least a share of a jackpot of around £3m. So when I put it on I have two hopes - one that its my turn to turn to win and that I dont have to share it with anyone.

    What you seem to be suggesting is that I now have three considerations. One that its my turn, the second being that I don't have to share it with anyone and the third being that it has rolled over a few times to get a prize that I could win with one go currently.

    I can just imagine the marketing slogan:

    'In it but don't want to win it....not this week anyway...leave it a few weeks and hope no-one wins it'
    Orri wrote: »
    4) A lower number of balls increase the chances of winning.

    Thats not what you said. You said:
    Orri wrote: »
    Fewer players mean that statistically there will be more rollovers or that the number of balls for a win will be higher. Jackpot sizes won't actually vary that much in the first scenario. In the second you'll actually have a greater chance of winning.

    BIB being the relevant bit.
    Orri wrote: »
    5) Are you really suggesting that Camelot would somehow be barred by the rUK from bidding for a contract.

    Second attempt at deflection. I didn't say that or anything like that.
    Orri wrote: »
    6) Your comment about plug and play only makes sense in the context of an existing system. You're don't seem to know what you're talking about there.

    Exactly how I feel when I read most of your posts.
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    BillyJamesTBillyJamesT Posts: 2,934
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    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/aug/03/alex-salmond-scottish-referendum-alistair-darling-debate?CMP=twt_gu

    Darling's only hope of matching his opponent (he will never better him) during this exchange and the second one to follow lies in disrupting the flow of debate. The former chancellor is a thoroughly insipid public speaker who engenders no passion or belief in what he is saying. His answers seem learned by rote and his continual blinking as he's delivering them makes him look unconvincing, like an understudy who's just been acquainted with the script owing to the leading man being incapacitated.

    I'm getting a munchie box in for this.
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    thmsthms Posts: 61,009
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    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-alex-salmond-alistair-3964597

    "If the Independence referendum was held today, how would you vote?"

    I voted Yes.. nice to see Yes in the lead by a considerable distance
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    BRITLANDBRITLAND Posts: 3,443
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    thms wrote: »
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/independence-referendum-alex-salmond-alistair-3964597

    "If the Independence referendum was held today, how would you vote?"

    I voted Yes.. nice to see Yes in the lead by a considerable distance

    This referendum is truly unpredictable, it's all up for grabs despite what the media tells you
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