Jon Pertwee years

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  • CoalHillJanitorCoalHillJanitor Posts: 15,634
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    I think Invasion of the Dinosaurs is one of Pertwee's best stories. Really holds the interest and suspense despite the inevitable capture-escape devices. The pants-looking dinosaurs are the only weakness, but it's not a fatal weakness because the story isn't really about the dinosaurs. It's about intrigue and corruption and deception and all that.

    And there's some fresh life breathed into it when Sarah Jane suddenly
    finds herself apparently on a spaceship.
    Much like the game-changing twist in The Key to Time of
    an actual spaceship in The Stones of Blood.
  • Irma BuntIrma Bunt Posts: 1,847
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    For me the Pertwee years are easily best years of the show; they have never been equalled, let alone bettered.

    Pertwee was the perfect blend of Steed, Bond and Holmes, a man of action, irascible (but not as much as the First Doctor), but compassionate, and a dandy. In an era when we talk about arcs, his era was the first to have a proper story arc, from start to finish. The exile scenario made him resentful, and he would sometimes resort to trickery to try and escape earth (trickery is another trait he shares with the First Doctor). But he gradually came to accept his "family" and for the first time in centuries, he had a home, albeit temporarily. So much so that, even when granted his freedom again, he choose to linger.

    Some complain that the Third Doctor was too imperious, but that was usually only with pig headed politicians or military leaders. Yes, he was also occasionally tetchy - but so are most of the Doctors at times. But he was capable of great kindness, and his relationships with his companions - most notably Jo - have real depth.

    For me, the Third Doctor had the best of stories, and pound-for-pound, Season 7, his first, is the single-greatest season in Classic Who. The show could have disappeared after Troughton resigned. That it survived and thrived was down to that one season - and Pertwee.
  • Glenn AGlenn A Posts: 23,794
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    Irma Bunt wrote: »
    For me the Pertwee years are easily best years of the show; they have never been equalled, let alone bettered.

    Pertwee was the perfect blend of Steed, Bond and Holmes, a man of action, irascible (but not as much as the First Doctor), but compassionate, and a dandy. In an era when we talk about arcs, his era was the first to have a proper story arc, from start to finish. The exile scenario made him resentful, and he would sometimes resort to trickery to try and escape earth (trickery is another trait he shares with the First Doctor). But he gradually came to accept his "family" and for the first time in centuries, he had a home, albeit temporarily. So much so that, even when granted his freedom again, he choose to linger.

    Some complain that the Third Doctor was too imperious, but that was usually only with pig headed politicians or military leaders. Yes, he was also occasionally tetchy - but so are most of the Doctors at times. But he was capable of great kindness, and his relationships with his companions - most notably Jo - have real depth.

    For me, the Third Doctor had the best of stories, and pound-for-pound, Season 7, his first, is the single-greatest season in Classic Who. The show could have disappeared after Troughton resigned. That it survived and thrived was down to that one season - and Pertwee.

    Yes, people forget that the show was down to 5 million viewers as the last Troughton stories ran, the show was looking cheap and dated, it was no match for the colour adventure series on ITV and from America and the consensus was it was finished. Pertwee and a much bigger budget and a better Doctor than the hoboish, dowdy Troughton saved the show. By the 1972 series ratings had doubled, the show was a major talking point again and the stories, often filmed on location, were so much better to watch.
  • codename_47codename_47 Posts: 9,682
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    Sadly what made it a success then is what makes it appear to be perhaps the most dated now (filmic look, foppish 70s fashions and attitudes (or was it the 80s..) po-faced seriousness, confined to Earth meaning the scope of adventure is more limited....

    It just doesn't feel as "fun" as most of the other eras.
    If you were given the potential to team up with any Doctor and have some fun on your adventures, why would you pick the 3rd Doctor, all you'd be doing is sitting around earth and watch him hi-karate the bad guys as he expects you to be in awe about what a fantastic man he is
  • Irma BuntIrma Bunt Posts: 1,847
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    Sadly what made it a success then is what makes it appear to be perhaps the most dated now (filmic look, foppish 70s fashions and attitudes (or was it the 80s..) po-faced seriousness, confined to Earth meaning the scope of adventure is more limited....

    It just doesn't feel as "fun" as most of the other eras.
    If you were given the potential to team up with any Doctor and have some fun on your adventures, why would you pick the 3rd Doctor, all you'd be doing is sitting around earth and watch him hi-karate the bad guys as he expects you to be in awe about what a fantastic man he is

    The audience at the time seemed to like it, which is really all that matters. It's a good job they did, or I suspect we wouldn't be discussing Doctor Who now.

    And I know these things are entirely subjective, but I found nothing po-faced about the Pertwee years then. I don't now.
  • JohnnyForgetJohnnyForget Posts: 24,061
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    I'm going off at a bit of a tangent from the thread's main discussion, but my post is still Pertwee era related.

    At the end of "The Three Doctors", the Time Lords released the Doctor from his exile, made the Tardis operational once again and also gave the Third Doctor the ability to steer the TARDIS (an ability the First and Second Doctors did not possess, they never knew where or when the Tardis would materialise).

    If the Time Lords could do all that for the Doctor, I don't understand why they couldn't also do something that would have been minor by comparison, i.e. fix the TARDIS's chameleon circuit!
  • Jon RossJon Ross Posts: 3,322
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    Glenn A wrote: »
    Yes, people forget that the show was down to 5 million viewers as the last Troughton stories ran, the show was looking cheap and dated, it was no match for the colour adventure series on ITV and from America and the consensus was it was finished. Pertwee and a much bigger budget and a better Doctor than the hoboish, dowdy Troughton saved the show. By the 1972 series ratings had doubled, the show was a major talking point again and the stories, often filmed on location, were so much better to watch.

    I used to love Pertwee's Doctor and he used to be my favourite.

    However, I would now choose Troughton's performance of the role over Pertwee any day.

    The reason: not only was Patrick a better actor than Jon IMHO, whenever I see Pertwee's Doctor now I just think how rude he is to almost every other character, how arrogant he is and - frankly - how sexist and chauvinistic he is. So much so that the modern Doctors have far more in common with Troughton's Doctor than they do with Pertwee's.

    I think it's fair to say that although Troughton preceded Pertwee as the Doctor, Troughton's performance has stood the test of time better and has much more of a connection with what Doctor Who is today than Pertwee's does. I don't think a modern day Doctor could ever be characterised like Pertwee's was.

    I also think that's the reason why the likes of Peter Davison, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and the currrent occupant of the TARDIS, Matt Smith, have all said how much they loved Troughton in the part. I think they've all gone on to cite Troughton as their favourite.
  • HestiaHestia Posts: 380
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    Jon Ross wrote: »
    I used to love Pertwee's Doctor and he used to be my favourite.

    However, I would now choose Troughton's performance of the role over Pertwee any day.

    The reason: not only was Patrick a better actor than Jon IMHO, whenever I see Pertwee's Doctor now I just think how rude he is to almost every other character, how arrogant he is and - frankly - how sexist and chauvinistic he is. So much so that the modern Doctors have far more in common with Troughton's Doctor than they do with Pertwee's.

    I think it's fair to say that although Troughton preceded Pertwee as the Doctor, Troughton's performance has stood the test of time better and has much more of a connection with what Doctor Who is today than Pertwee's does. I don't think a modern day Doctor could ever be characterised like Pertwee's was.

    I also think that's the reason why the likes of Peter Davison, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy and the currrent occupant of the TARDIS, Matt Smith, have all said how much they loved Troughton in the part. I think they've all gone on to cite Troughton as their favourite.

    Completely agree. Also, just watched "Day of the Daleks" a couple of days ago and the scene where the Doctor was only too happy to pick up a gun and kill off a few Ogrons seems to jar with every other Doctor, before or since!
  • Jon RossJon Ross Posts: 3,322
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    Hestia wrote: »
    Completely agree. Also, just watched "Day of the Daleks" a couple of days ago and the scene where the Doctor was only too happy to pick up a gun and kill off a few Ogrons seems to jar with every other Doctor, before or since!

    Yes, Pertwee's Doctor is more of a conventional action hero than the other Doctors. Like Eric Saward once said, he reflected the popularity of James Bond.

    Mind you, I don't mind the Doctor being a bit violent if it's in the service of a great story. I've always thought Tom's violence in The Seeds of Doom was a bit odd, but I reckon it's one of his best shows. ;)

    I'm not meaning to knock Jon P. I think he did his best for the show and was a great ambassador for it. He fitted his time perfectly. I just think it's now very dated, even if, as Glenn A correctly says, the production values were a major step up from the black and white days, which is undoubtedly true.

    I don't think he was a bad actor either, I just think that Patrick was a better one. He gave the Doctor more layers and was a more convincing alien, which is what the Doctor's meant to be. Pertwee always seemed more of a pompous human with a bit of an attitude problem.

    Another thing that's really always annoyed me is the end of Planet of the Spiders, where the Doctor returns to UNIT HQ and the Doctor says "The TARDIS brought me home." That was a sign the show needed some fresh blood at that point.
  • Glenn AGlenn A Posts: 23,794
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    Jon Ross wrote: »
    Yes, Pertwee's Doctor is more of a conventional action hero than the other Doctors. Like Eric Saward once said, he reflected the popularity of James Bond.

    Mind you, I don't mind the Doctor being a bit violent if it's in the service of a great story. I've always thought Tom's violence in The Seeds of Doom was a bit odd, but I reckon it's one of his best shows. ;)

    I'm not meaning to knock Jon P. I think he did his best for the show and was a great ambassador for it. He fitted his time perfectly. I just think it's now very dated, even if, as Glenn A correctly says, the production values were a major step up from the black and white days, which is undoubtedly true.

    I don't think he was a bad actor either, I just think that Patrick was a better one. He gave the Doctor more layers and was a more convincing alien, which is what the Doctor's meant to be. Pertwee always seemed more of a pompous human with a bit of an attitude problem.

    Another thing that's really always annoyed me is the end of Planet of the Spiders, where the Doctor returns to UNIT HQ and the Doctor says "The TARDIS brought me home." That was a sign the show needed some fresh blood at that point.

    Much as I like Jon, I think Tom Baker really moved the role forward again. At first elements of the Pertwee era appeared UNIT( though in a much reduced role as most of the new stories were either in the past or in space), Sarah Jane, of course, but by 1976 UNIT and Sarah Jane had gone and Baker's love of horror and sinister stories, the Horror of Fang Rock is more like something Hammer would make, had made his stamp on the role. Also Tom's love of humour and witty asides made the role his own and some stories were attracting 16 million viewers.
  • JethrykJethryk Posts: 1,355
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    Hestia wrote: »
    Completely agree. Also, just watched "Day of the Daleks" a couple of days ago and the scene where the Doctor was only too happy to pick up a gun and kill off a few Ogrons seems to jar with every other Doctor, before or since!

    Apart from Colin Baker. Ever seen Attack of the Cybermen?
  • jrmswfcjrmswfc Posts: 5,644
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    I was too young to see Pertwee in the role, Tom was "my doctor", but I got to know loads of his stories through reading the Target books in the late 70s/early 80s. Some of them were really good in print, eg Green Death, Daemons, the Autons, Dinosaur Invasion, Carnival of Monsters (although some like the Mutants and Claws of Axos I found really dull) but seeing the TV versions in later years was a disappointment with some of them being almost unwatchable due to shoddy special effects etc. He was probably still my second favourite "classic Doctor" though.
  • Glenn AGlenn A Posts: 23,794
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    Jethryk wrote: »
    Apart from Colin Baker. Ever seen Attack of the Cybermen?

    This was one of the deciding factors in having the show rested. Also Baker played a highly dislikeable, arrogant Doctor.
  • ianradioianianradioian Posts: 74,641
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    I loved Pertwees Dr Who; it was my era, and I thought, and still think, him a great Dr.
  • AdelaideGirlAdelaideGirl Posts: 3,498
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    I've been discovering the Pertwee era recently, Peter Davision and later were my era. But what I notice the most is that I go I with low expectations of effects etc and alway end up impressed with how much better they look and how much better the stories are. Now partially this is probably all the wonderful work the DVD teams have done but it also the creativity was really very high.
  • Jon RossJon Ross Posts: 3,322
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    jrmswfc wrote: »
    I was too young to see Pertwee in the role, Tom was "my doctor", but I got to know loads of his stories through reading the Target books in the late 70s/early 80s. Some of them were really good in print, eg Green Death, Daemons, the Autons, Dinosaur Invasion, Carnival of Monsters (although some like the Mutants and Claws of Axos I found really dull) but seeing the TV versions in later years was a disappointment with some of them being almost unwatchable due to shoddy special effects etc.

    Are the special effects of the Pertwee era so shoddy when compared with other eras of Classic Who? I've always thought there were good and bad effects in every era of the show.
  • Jon RossJon Ross Posts: 3,322
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    Glenn A wrote: »
    This was one of the deciding factors in having the show rested.

    I thought the hand-crushing scene was more controversial in Attack of the Cybermen than the Doctor gunning down Cybermen. After all, the Doctor had used guns before (he finished off the Cyber Leader in Earthshock with a gun - I've never seen people complain about that).

    I think it's the general darkness and violence of Season 22 that upset some people, including those higher up at the BBC. Grade certainly criticised it at the time.
  • JethrykJethryk Posts: 1,355
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    Jon Ross wrote: »
    I thought the hand-crushing scene was more controversial in Attack of the Cybermen than the Doctor gunning down Cybermen. After all, the Doctor had used guns before (he finished off the Cyber Leader in Earthshock with a gun - I've never seen people complain about that).

    I think it's the general darkness and violence of Season 22 that upset some people, including those higher up at the BBC. Grade certainly criticised it at the time.

    Well Grade was probably looking for any excuse at that time but they gave him some ammunition.

    I know it wasn't you but a poster saying Pertwee picking up a gun in Day of the Daleks jar's with all the other Doctor's before or after does seem a bit silly when you consider Colin Baker in Attack, the acid bath scene in Vengeance and Shockeye's death in the Two Doctors. I think I highlighted Attack because it was a literal example.

    As you point out Davison killed the Cyber Leader also McCoy blew up Skaro. You can argue as to whether this was necessary in each case but I don't really believe you can single out Pertwee as so violent.

    I agree with those that say Pertwee was more of his time and whilst his era is out of fashion at the moment I think for a long time he was considered the most popular amongst the general public. The media described him as such when he died and you can't get away from the fact that he saved a show that almost got cancelled on Troughton's watch.

    Also a bit much having a go at Pertwee for not being as good as actor Troughton. None of them were/are!
  • Jon RossJon Ross Posts: 3,322
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    Jethryk wrote: »
    I don't really believe you can single out Pertwee as so violent.

    It's mostly cartoon violence. I doubt Barry Letts would have allowed realistic violence with his religious views. I just now find the Venusian Aikido just about the most embarrassing thing in the whole of Classic Who (maybe a tie with the annoying robot dog!)
    Jethryk wrote: »
    I agree with those that say Pertwee was more of his time and whilst his era is out of fashion at the moment I think for a long time he was considered the most popular amongst the general public. The media described him as such when he died

    I don't remember the media saying he was THE most popular. He was certainly popular, but I would say Tom displaced him fairly quickly and became the definitive Doctor for the general audience as well as the fans. But after he finished, Jon seemed more keen than Tom to be associated with the programme, making personal appearances etc., whereas Tom distanced himself from the show for many years.
    Jethryk wrote: »
    and you can't get away from the fact that he saved a show that almost got cancelled on Troughton's watch.

    I don't think it's as simple as that. We all know that Troughton wasn't producing the show or writing the scripts, so you can't just say it was on his "watch". The fact is they just made way too many episodes during the late '60s - the show was on every month of the year except August. When Pertwee came in they cut the number of episodes roughly in half, it went into colour, the production values improved hugely. All these played a big part in the success of the Pertwee era at that time.
    Jethryk wrote: »
    Also a bit much having a go at Pertwee for not being as good as actor Troughton. None of them were/are!

    Well, who is the best actor is always a matter of opinion. Troughton was a good actor but he was never regarded as the next potential Laurence Olivier by the British stage. He was a good supporting character actor for most of his career, not a star. Some actors strike me as appalling but they get a lot of work. Nick Berry was the highest paid actor on TV for several years! None of the Doctor Who actors were anywhere near as bad as him IMHO.
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