Well good on you, but I thought you wanted detailed responses.
Anybody who just says "it's good" gets the same bloody treatment as those who say "it's crap." There was a lovely remark about those who enjoyed this series being segregated in their own thread as to "not annoy the rest of us."
So do not pretend that this forum is defensively one-sided because I'm sure many of us have seen enough crap over the years to prove otherwise. There is nothing in the opening post to start some kind of debate or to back-up the hyperbole.
Don't be so rude and deffensive towards to me, thank you very much
I don't appreciate being confronted in the manner you have, as if you are a teacher putting a child in their place. Don't behave as if you are the moderator or the lord of this forum, because you are not.
I have seen some poor treatment of members who have given detailed responses of their reasons for not liking the current series, and they have been responded by rude and aggressive members. Perhaps one of them was you, considering how you are with me. I didn't come on her for an argument, but came on here to defend a member who was being horribly treated by a member a few posts above. Yes, their post was hardly mature or explanatory on their reasons for why they dislike the current series, but members such as yourself and Aidan Lunn behave in arrogant and rude behaviour to members who do not share the opinion, so you treat them like they are beneath you and that your opinion is the one that we must all follow.
It's Moffat fans consistently telling RTD fans that they're tedious
Any time someone dares to criticise the current series they're attacked and mocked as RTD lovers which is just a cheap shot and easier that actually giving a response with any substance.
Last night's pitiful episode, although not written by Moffat, was typical of this series. It was dull, messy, lacked heart or excitement and had a very weak and abrupt ending.
Stephen Moffat's earlier series lucked out with having Matt, Karen & Arthur. Their performances helped turn mediocre, confused plots and scripting into something magical. That's something that's lacking this year with this Doctor and his unlikeable companion. I just don't care about them.
I watch every episode hoping for an epiphany as I have loved this show so much but each week I'm left feeling disappointed and frustrated.
Hopefully they've saved all the good stuff for the season finale but this hasn't been a classic series and the fault lies firmly at Mr Moffat's door.
Personally, apart from CE's series, I hated the RTD era, I much prefer this one, although being a classic fan, I'll always prefer that over the Moffat era.
Each producer brings something new to the show, and also changes the style. e.g. the difference in programme style between Hinchcliffe, Williams and JN-T. It would be extremely boring for a show that relies on, and embraces change, in order for it to keep running to stay the same, i.e. to stay how you like it.
/QUOTE]
God i hate this childish response. It's on the level of "I know you are, but what am i?"
Well good on you, but I thought you wanted detailed responses.
Anybody who just says "it's good" gets the same bloody treatment as those who say "it's crap." There was a lovely remark about those who enjoyed this series being segregated in their own thread as to "not annoy the rest of us."
So do not pretend that this forum is defensively one-sided because I'm sure many of us have seen enough crap over the years to prove otherwise. There is nothing in the opening post to start some kind of debate or to back-up the hyperbole.
That's often the 'problem' on certain threads. Enjoyed an interesting little debate on the 'Clara is a still a bad character' thread where Mulett and others were making interesting points. But this sort of thread was always going to become a sort of Moffat Bad, RTD Good or vice verca kind of thing *because* of the hyperbole.
It's nothing new. But it can get a bit frustrating if you just want a discussion and are not in any sort of 'camp'. Liked the RTD era, prefer the Moffat era. And obviously both of them are friends with a slightly different take on Who. Which is good. Gotta have change.
To sum up and apologise for the dullness, it's the hyperbole that I personally find a bit much. Still, it doesn't really matter. This place is generally fun.
Don't behave as if you are the moderator or the lord of this forum, because you are not.
If I have confronted you and tried to moderate you in an aggressive manner, then please report my posts. If you are going to use me as an example and 'rest your case' for my offering up a potential reason for the defensive nature of this thread - then I am very likely to respond.
In the meantime, I'll definitely be adding Lord of the Forum as my occupation - marvellous!
That's often the 'problem' on certain threads. Enjoyed an interesting little debate on the 'Clara is a bad companion' thread where Mulett and others were making interesting points. But this sort of thread was always going to become a sort of Moffat Bad, RTD Good or vice verca kind of thing *because* of the hyperbole.
It's nothing new. But it can get a bit frustrating if you just want a discussion and are not in any sort of 'camp'. Liked the RTD era, prefer the Moffat era. And obviously both of them are friends with a slightly different take on Who. Which is good. Gotta have change.
To sum up and apologise for the dullness, it's the hyperbole that I personally find a bit much. Still, it doesn't really matter. This place is generally fun.
To use a quite popular phrase over the last few days - this!
I have been having a lot of issues with the current series, and I think that it is more a writing issue, and a style issue than anything else.
With previous series, even the ones with RTD producing, each episode in some way was interconnecting, 11th doctor more so, as we had River jumping in and out of the episodes, which tied things together a lot more. Ultimately we kinda knew what was going on, the whole Master ark, return of Davros, River ark, all these story arks people kinda knew what was going on.
If we look at the Pandorica ark, a fair few people disliked it, purely because they couldn't really see the connection between the episodes, only the odd few noticed the scenes which were out of place and the doctor jumping back through time.
The current series, suffers the same with the Pandorica ark, Missy is appearing now and then, and nobody really knows wtf is going on. Added to this, the stories themselves haven't really been the greatest, and I think that is mostly because of how the doctor is being shown.
Now I love Capaldi, I have seen him in a lot of programs before, but the doctor isn't being the doctor. If we look at the episodes so far, they for some reason they have either resolved themselves without intervention from the doctor, or have kinda been about robots, with the exception of flatline. We have had several stories that we are simply ment to just accept things happened and are unanswered, Sherwood episode, the forest episode for example, so many questions, nothing answered.
What we are lacking from the Doctor is the big, I am the Doctor, everybody lives, you have to get past me if you want to touch earth. This is really lacking, the doctor in new who has been portrayed as someone people would stand behind, would fight for, and ultimately die for. 12th... isn't in any way that kind of doctor. Which is kinda wrong.
The doctor himself comes across as very cold, allows people to die rather than fight til the end for them to live, something 9, 10 and 11 would of done, and had that person of died, they would of felt it, 12 doesn't, or certainly doesn't show it.
For series 9, they really need to bring this back to the doctor, I want to feel that earth, and humanity is important to him. I want to feel the doctor is someone people would stand behind without question. I want to feel he is my doctor.
Story wise... we need some damn aliens, not robots, not machines, not mechs, we need aliens, spooky, scary, icky aliens. We need alien planets, strange places. We need more intermingled stories, and most importantly, give us a story arc we can kinda see happening.
Now, I have a huge amount of faith in moffat, I am a huge fan of Sherlock and other work hes been involved in, however he really does need to retake control of Doctor who, and take on board the issues and mistakes have, I have a lot of faith in season 9.
They are entitled to continue to watch, in case the show improves for them eventually.
Why do people get so defensive over people expressing they don't like the current series? I have noticed it a lot and it's why i have avoided this place like the plague. It's not as if people are saying "it's crap" and then that's it. People are giving detailed responses to why it hasn't clicked with them. They have as much right to comment how they don't like it, as much as you do to comment that you like it.
I never said they didn't. So in that case, I still have a right to put my case forward:
When I don't like something, I generally try and ignore it, saves me getting all het up and stressed when getting angry thinking about it. After all, no-one in their right mind would do something they don't like when faced with a choice (and Doctor Who is not an essential in people's lives). I don't eat foods I don't like, so why would a TV show be different? In addition to that, in the grand scheme of things, it's just a fictional TV show, I can think of far worthier causes to get wound up about, but then again, if the OP wants to get wound up over the way someone directs or produces a fictional TV show, then let them. And I say that as a Doctor Who fan since 1993!
It's up to the OP and anyone else who does this, but maybe it's a good idea not to allow themselves to get wound up because they think they have some sort of duty to watch something they don't like. Otherwise, they'll be having multiple strokes before they're 50!
Added to that, the OP is complaining about the show as a whole as it currently is, and is complaining that it's been "crap" for the past 4 years, making sweeping generalisations about the Moffatt era, I don't think he/she's watching to see if the show improves. From the tone of the original post, the OP sounds like he/she doesn't have any faith at all in the programme.
God i hate this childish response. It's on the level of "I know you are, but what am i?"
It's not childish at all, it's basic common sense, as I outlined in the reply I've just given to another member.
As I said, I don't do things that I don't like if I don't *have* to do them. Doctor Who is not an essential, no matter how many other fans like to think otherwise, so there is no duty to watch it if you don't like it. If you want to watch Doctor Who, but there's a period you don't like, a suggestion might be to ignore it and watch an episode from a period that you do like.
Every series of Doctor Who since it return has mix of good, decent and bad episodes - this current series is no different in my opinion.
The difference in quality of the 8 series is pretty small for me - I'd probably rank series 5 as my favourite and series 2 as the weakest, but there isn't much to choose them. I enjoy the show but I know every now and then there will be a clunker episode, but you are also equally as likely to get something fantastic.
I really don't understand people who say the show is now much better/worse - Doctor Who is consistant in it's inconsistency!
For me my favourite Dr was David Tennent & my favourite series was with Catherine Tate. I wish the show made such good eps now as they did then!
I've also been underwelmed with the current series.
Regarding the last episode:
Without being too horrible I also think the last ep was let down because the little girl Maeve was one of the worst child actresses I've seen. She couldn't act, was wooden & unconvincing. How on earth she got the part, I don't know. Surely, the casting team could have done better!!!
I've also felt the episodes thoughtout the series on the whole were not that exciting.
Without being too horrible I also think the last ep was let down because the little girl Maeve was one of the worst child actresses I've seen. She couldn't act, was wooden & unconvincing. How on earth she got the part, I don't know. Surely, the casting team could have done better!!!
I've also felt the episodes thoughtout the series on the whole were not that exciting.
I have to disagree on both parts I thought she was a very good actress I wouldn't mind her becoming a regular on the show.
I also think this is by far the best series of New Who yet
Without being too horrible I also think the last ep was let down because the little girl Maeve was one of the worst child actresses I've seen. She couldn't act, was wooden & unconvincing. How on earth she got the part, I don't know. Surely, the casting team could have done better!!!
There are not that many 12 year old Oliviers around.
Well I can see somethings never change while I've been keeping away from this forum!
The reason I wanted to respond to this thread in particular is because as someone who's had serious issues with most of Matt Smith's tenure(aside Matt Smith himself) I have seen some serious improvement in this Series. I have certainly enjoyed a lot more of the stories, the Mummy episode for me I thought the best in several years.
Okay, it's still not brilliant, the Clara/Danny arc is still too distracting at times but I think the Missy strand is going back to how it was in the first four Series, kept to a minimum and coming to life as it seems in the finale, which from the trailer looks quite good. After the overbearing arcs of Series 5 and 6 in particular that is refreshing.
As for Capaldi, I think the dislike for him is a result of having two jolly Doctors on the spin but his alien behavior and aloofness is nothing new for me. It reminds me of Hartnell in his earlier stories and both Baker's tried to grab that different alien reaction to situations humans face. Even Pertwee was arrogant in his first Season and let's not forget the Ninth Doctor in the first half of Series 1 where he was particularly rude and patronising. So for me, Capaldi is just an extension of all that and for me it's refreshing to have a Doctor like that.
So for me, the fact Moffat has tried to steer the show in a different direction is commendable, even though it isn't quite there yet and the pace is still off at times. and it's always to nice to give praise where praise is due, especially after the snorefests of recent years.
It's Moffat fans consistently telling RTD fans that they're tedious
Any time someone dares to criticise the current series they're attacked and mocked as RTD lovers which is just a cheap shot and easier that actually giving a response with any substance.
Last night's pitiful episode, although not written by Moffat, was typical of this series. It was dull, messy, lacked heart or excitement and had a very weak and abrupt ending.
Stephen Moffat's earlier series lucked out with having Matt, Karen & Arthur. Their performances helped turn mediocre, confused plots and scripting into something magical. That's something that's lacking this year with this Doctor and his unlikeable companion. I just don't care about them.
I watch every episode hoping for an epiphany as I have loved this show so much but each week I'm left feeling disappointed and frustrated.
Hopefully they've saved all the good stuff for the season finale but this hasn't been a classic series and the fault lies firmly at Mr Moffat's door.
It's nothing new. But it can get a bit frustrating if you just want a discussion and are not in any sort of 'camp'. Liked the RTD era, prefer the Moffat era. And obviously both of them are friends with a slightly different take on Who. Which is good. Gotta have change.
I wonder if the two of them ever get together in order to read through these DS threads and just have a bloody good laugh at us all.
No. What's really tedious are the people who presume their view on what's good, bad or indifferent is somehow objective and shared by everyone. Anyone who's been on this forum for more than a little while knows people will disagree about the episodes/series/showrunners they liked or disliked. That's why it's subjective and anyone's opinion is as valid or invalid as anyone else's.
What's really tedious is the people who take offence at those who disagree with them and think it's an abusive, personal attack.
What's really tedious is the "criticisms" and discovered "plot holes" from people who haven't been paying attention.
What's really tedious is the people who attack the views of others in an offensive, insulting manner.
What's really tedious is those who say <insert showrunner of your choice> is either "infallible" or "should be sacked".
What's really tedious is those who come here, state their views and don't join in the debate.
No. What's really tedious are the people who presume their view on what's good, bad or indifferent is somehow objective and shared by everyone. Anyone who's been on this forum for more than a little while knows people will disagree about the episodes/series/showrunners they liked or disliked. That's why it's subjective and anyone's opinion is as valid or invalid as anyone else's.
What's really tedious is the people who take offence at those who disagree with them and think it's an abusive, personal attack.
What's really tedious is the "criticisms" and discovered "plot holes" from people who haven't been paying attention.
What's really tedious is the people who attack the views of others in an offensive, insulting manner.
What's really tedious is those who say <insert showrunner of your choice> is either "infallible" or "should be sacked".
What's really tedious is those who come here, state their views and don't join in the debate.
What's really tedious is that there isn't a LIKE button for posts like this!
Comments
Don't be so rude and deffensive towards to me, thank you very much
I don't appreciate being confronted in the manner you have, as if you are a teacher putting a child in their place. Don't behave as if you are the moderator or the lord of this forum, because you are not.
I have seen some poor treatment of members who have given detailed responses of their reasons for not liking the current series, and they have been responded by rude and aggressive members. Perhaps one of them was you, considering how you are with me. I didn't come on her for an argument, but came on here to defend a member who was being horribly treated by a member a few posts above. Yes, their post was hardly mature or explanatory on their reasons for why they dislike the current series, but members such as yourself and Aidan Lunn behave in arrogant and rude behaviour to members who do not share the opinion, so you treat them like they are beneath you and that your opinion is the one that we must all follow.
I could not agree more. Great post.
That's often the 'problem' on certain threads. Enjoyed an interesting little debate on the 'Clara is a still a bad character' thread where Mulett and others were making interesting points. But this sort of thread was always going to become a sort of Moffat Bad, RTD Good or vice verca kind of thing *because* of the hyperbole.
It's nothing new. But it can get a bit frustrating if you just want a discussion and are not in any sort of 'camp'. Liked the RTD era, prefer the Moffat era. And obviously both of them are friends with a slightly different take on Who. Which is good. Gotta have change.
To sum up and apologise for the dullness, it's the hyperbole that I personally find a bit much. Still, it doesn't really matter. This place is generally fun.
If I have confronted you and tried to moderate you in an aggressive manner, then please report my posts. If you are going to use me as an example and 'rest your case' for my offering up a potential reason for the defensive nature of this thread - then I am very likely to respond.
In the meantime, I'll definitely be adding Lord of the Forum as my occupation - marvellous!
To use a quite popular phrase over the last few days - this!
With previous series, even the ones with RTD producing, each episode in some way was interconnecting, 11th doctor more so, as we had River jumping in and out of the episodes, which tied things together a lot more. Ultimately we kinda knew what was going on, the whole Master ark, return of Davros, River ark, all these story arks people kinda knew what was going on.
If we look at the Pandorica ark, a fair few people disliked it, purely because they couldn't really see the connection between the episodes, only the odd few noticed the scenes which were out of place and the doctor jumping back through time.
The current series, suffers the same with the Pandorica ark, Missy is appearing now and then, and nobody really knows wtf is going on. Added to this, the stories themselves haven't really been the greatest, and I think that is mostly because of how the doctor is being shown.
Now I love Capaldi, I have seen him in a lot of programs before, but the doctor isn't being the doctor. If we look at the episodes so far, they for some reason they have either resolved themselves without intervention from the doctor, or have kinda been about robots, with the exception of flatline. We have had several stories that we are simply ment to just accept things happened and are unanswered, Sherwood episode, the forest episode for example, so many questions, nothing answered.
What we are lacking from the Doctor is the big, I am the Doctor, everybody lives, you have to get past me if you want to touch earth. This is really lacking, the doctor in new who has been portrayed as someone people would stand behind, would fight for, and ultimately die for. 12th... isn't in any way that kind of doctor. Which is kinda wrong.
The doctor himself comes across as very cold, allows people to die rather than fight til the end for them to live, something 9, 10 and 11 would of done, and had that person of died, they would of felt it, 12 doesn't, or certainly doesn't show it.
For series 9, they really need to bring this back to the doctor, I want to feel that earth, and humanity is important to him. I want to feel the doctor is someone people would stand behind without question. I want to feel he is my doctor.
Story wise... we need some damn aliens, not robots, not machines, not mechs, we need aliens, spooky, scary, icky aliens. We need alien planets, strange places. We need more intermingled stories, and most importantly, give us a story arc we can kinda see happening.
Now, I have a huge amount of faith in moffat, I am a huge fan of Sherlock and other work hes been involved in, however he really does need to retake control of Doctor who, and take on board the issues and mistakes have, I have a lot of faith in season 9.
I never said they didn't. So in that case, I still have a right to put my case forward:
When I don't like something, I generally try and ignore it, saves me getting all het up and stressed when getting angry thinking about it. After all, no-one in their right mind would do something they don't like when faced with a choice (and Doctor Who is not an essential in people's lives). I don't eat foods I don't like, so why would a TV show be different? In addition to that, in the grand scheme of things, it's just a fictional TV show, I can think of far worthier causes to get wound up about, but then again, if the OP wants to get wound up over the way someone directs or produces a fictional TV show, then let them. And I say that as a Doctor Who fan since 1993!
It's up to the OP and anyone else who does this, but maybe it's a good idea not to allow themselves to get wound up because they think they have some sort of duty to watch something they don't like. Otherwise, they'll be having multiple strokes before they're 50!
Added to that, the OP is complaining about the show as a whole as it currently is, and is complaining that it's been "crap" for the past 4 years, making sweeping generalisations about the Moffatt era, I don't think he/she's watching to see if the show improves. From the tone of the original post, the OP sounds like he/she doesn't have any faith at all in the programme.
It's not childish at all, it's basic common sense, as I outlined in the reply I've just given to another member.
As I said, I don't do things that I don't like if I don't *have* to do them. Doctor Who is not an essential, no matter how many other fans like to think otherwise, so there is no duty to watch it if you don't like it. If you want to watch Doctor Who, but there's a period you don't like, a suggestion might be to ignore it and watch an episode from a period that you do like.
It was S***.
Thought, well, that's succinct and to the point! It isn't that serious.
Generally don't see people mocking others opinions on here. People who do don't seem to last long.
The difference in quality of the 8 series is pretty small for me - I'd probably rank series 5 as my favourite and series 2 as the weakest, but there isn't much to choose them. I enjoy the show but I know every now and then there will be a clunker episode, but you are also equally as likely to get something fantastic.
I really don't understand people who say the show is now much better/worse - Doctor Who is consistant in it's inconsistency!
I've also been underwelmed with the current series.
Regarding the last episode:
Without being too horrible I also think the last ep was let down because the little girl Maeve was one of the worst child actresses I've seen. She couldn't act, was wooden & unconvincing. How on earth she got the part, I don't know. Surely, the casting team could have done better!!!
I've also felt the episodes thoughtout the series on the whole were not that exciting.
I have to disagree on both parts I thought she was a very good actress I wouldn't mind her becoming a regular on the show.
I also think this is by far the best series of New Who yet
There are not that many 12 year old Oliviers around.
The reason I wanted to respond to this thread in particular is because as someone who's had serious issues with most of Matt Smith's tenure(aside Matt Smith himself) I have seen some serious improvement in this Series. I have certainly enjoyed a lot more of the stories, the Mummy episode for me I thought the best in several years.
Okay, it's still not brilliant, the Clara/Danny arc is still too distracting at times but I think the Missy strand is going back to how it was in the first four Series, kept to a minimum and coming to life as it seems in the finale, which from the trailer looks quite good. After the overbearing arcs of Series 5 and 6 in particular that is refreshing.
As for Capaldi, I think the dislike for him is a result of having two jolly Doctors on the spin but his alien behavior and aloofness is nothing new for me. It reminds me of Hartnell in his earlier stories and both Baker's tried to grab that different alien reaction to situations humans face. Even Pertwee was arrogant in his first Season and let's not forget the Ninth Doctor in the first half of Series 1 where he was particularly rude and patronising. So for me, Capaldi is just an extension of all that and for me it's refreshing to have a Doctor like that.
So for me, the fact Moffat has tried to steer the show in a different direction is commendable, even though it isn't quite there yet and the pace is still off at times. and it's always to nice to give praise where praise is due, especially after the snorefests of recent years.
BIB This.
I wonder if the two of them ever get together in order to read through these DS threads and just have a bloody good laugh at us all.
What's really tedious is the people who take offence at those who disagree with them and think it's an abusive, personal attack.
What's really tedious is the "criticisms" and discovered "plot holes" from people who haven't been paying attention.
What's really tedious is the people who attack the views of others in an offensive, insulting manner.
What's really tedious is those who say <insert showrunner of your choice> is either "infallible" or "should be sacked".
What's really tedious is those who come here, state their views and don't join in the debate.
What's really tedious is that there isn't a LIKE button for posts like this!