I saw a programme on harassment in Cairo, women in full burkas getting incredibly offensive comments,and men with erections rubbing against them on crowded buses and groping them.
I was with my husband, who was Tunisian, walking along together in broad daylight in his home city there. Obviously we were together and a couple. A man walked towards us, looked at me and turned around and started walking alongside me, attemping to chat me up! Of course, my husband made it clear what would happen if he didn't clear off, but the brass neck of it!
Another time in Morocco, we stepped into a taxi, I happened to look out at a young man who had been watching us. As were drove off, he grabbed his crotch, thrusting it in my direction and started rubbing at himself.
It doesn't only happen there, of course, but it's quite shocking.
I wouldn't have called all of those situations 'verbal street harassment', a couple of them seemed quite good natured. However if I had to experience that on a daily basis it would piss me right off, and if I were a woman I'd probably feel threatened.
That said, I feel like she exacerbated some of those situations by remaining silent. Yeah, you can argue she shouldn't have to say anything, and you'd be right, but a friendly response occasionally wouldn't have gone amiss.
Unfortunately though, by smiling or responding, you're effectively telling them that you don't mind being cat called.
I have had it in the past. My walk from the car to office takes maybe 7 minutes door to door on one long stretch of road. I've had men beeping at me from their cars/vans, I've had men say hello or tell me to smile (& some call me names if I don't reapond), I've had a van with three men slow down and drive next me as I'm walking, telling me to look at them, I've even had one guy stop and thrust a soggy card with his number on it offering to buy my shoes (flats that has got wet in the rain)!
But what I'm saying is, if you smile or say hi back at one person, yeah you might just cheer up his day or he might be brazen enough to then take that as lead for something else and he might step up his cat calling (or whatever) next time.
It might just be a smile or hello to you but if you're getting that on a regular basis then it's frustrating. Plus I hate it when people tell me to smile - I could have had anything happen to me to cause me to not smile that morning.
Thankfully I don't get the attention now that I walk around with a pregnant belly!
Very wide spectrum of comments and actions that range all the way from the downright creepy to perfectly polite. There's a point in there, but it gets rather diluted by the wholesale lumping together of just about any form of communication whatsoever under the banner of harassment.
Because most women aren't looking for any form of communication from strange men, while simply going about our daily business.
If you wouldn't say it to a man, don't say it to a woman. It's not that difficult to understand, is it?
I commented too, but I don't go back and read what people reply to it, that'd be foolish I just had my say and was done with it
I have notifications turned on, which means I get an e-mail if someone replies to me on there. I use it because people on the local history etc channels that I use, are usually OK and we communicate pleasantly.
It also means that I get responses from knobheads too. Haven't found a way to weed them out yet!
So in probability terms, what do you think encourages interaction. Acknowledging or not acknowledging the unwanted interaction?
I think ignoring people is probably more likely to lead to a bad situation than simply giving a brief friendly response. Obviously if some loser sleazeball yells out "dayum girrrll, dayum!" there's not much you can or should say, but if someone says "how you doing today?" or "what's up beautiful, have a good day" I don't see why a smile or a brief response would hurt.
I think the woman who made this video chose to be silent because she knew it would encourage people to say more than if she'd responded to them.
I was with my husband, who was Tunisian, walking along together in broad daylight in his home city there. Obviously we were together and a couple. A man walked towards us, looked at me and turned around and started walking alongside me, attemping to chat me up! Of course, my husband made it clear what would happen if he didn't clear off, but the brass neck of it!
Another time in Morocco, we stepped into a taxi, I happened to look out at a young man who had been watching us. As were drove off, he grabbed his crotch, thrusting it in my direction and started rubbing at himself.
It doesn't only happen there, of course, but it's quite shocking.
Similar kind of thing happened to myself when walking down the street in various areas in the Far East. On my honeymoon with the wife and women coming onto me infront of her.
You seem lucky enough never to have come across a posse of hen night 'lovelies' on a Saturday night.
Drunken comments are even worse and they do come from both sexes.
However I'm not sure women would comment as much to a mans face in the 'sober' light of day. It seems to be much more a man thing. Is it just a confidence thing perhaps?
I think ignoring people is probably more likely to lead to a bad situation than simply giving a brief friendly response. Obviously if some loser sleazeball yells out "dayum girrrll, dayum!" there's not much you can or should say, but if someone says "how you doing today?" or "what's up beautiful, have a good day" I don't see why a smile or a brief response would hurt.
I think the woman who made this video chose to be silent because she knew it would encourage people to say more than if she'd responded to them.
Because there's a risk of the guy seeing that as an excuse to latch. I think you have to be female to really know about all this. I'm middle-aged now and that's something I don't miss about being younger.
I have notifications turned on, which means I get an e-mail if someone replies to me on there. I use it because people on the local history etc channels that I use, are usually OK and we communicate pleasantly.
It also means that I get responses from knobheads too. Haven't found a way to weed them out yet!
Is there no anti-knobhead button? That's a bummer Can you not get notifications set for only pages you subscribe to or something?
Because there's a risk of the guy seeing that as an excuse to latch. I think you have to be female to really know about all this. I'm middle-aged now and that's something I don't miss about being younger.
Definitely. Until you've experienced it for yourself then you may think of it as flattering for a woman but it's really not. If it's happening often enough then it just gets tiresome and, sometimes, creepy.
That said, I feel like she exacerbated some of those situations by remaining silent. Yeah, you can argue she shouldn't have to say anything, and you'd be right, but a friendly response occasionally wouldn't have gone amiss.
Unfortunately though, by smiling or responding, you're effectively telling them that you don't mind being cat called.
I have had it in the past. My walk from the car to office takes maybe 7 minutes door to door on one long stretch of road. I've had men beeping at me from their cars/vans, I've had men say hello or tell me to smile (& some call me names if I don't reapond), I've had a van with three men slow down and drive next me as I'm walking, telling me to look at them, I've even had one guy stop and thrust a soggy card with his number on it offering to buy my shoes (flats that has got wet in the rain)!
But what I'm saying is, if you smile or say hi back at one person, yeah you might just cheer up his day or he might be brazen enough to then take that as lead for something else and he might step up his cat calling (or whatever) next time.
It might just be a smile or hello to you but if you're getting that on a regular basis then it's frustrating. Plus I hate it when people tell me to smile - I could have had anything happen to me to cause me to not smile that morning.
Thankfully I don't get the attention now that I walk around with a pregnant belly!
Good post, I do see where you're coming from. Obviously nobody should feel obligated to respond to uninvited comments on the street, but I think we should be careful about calling all examples of it 'harassment', and I think a reasonably streetwise person would be able to respond to some of it in the spirit in which it was intended.
Is there no anti-knobhead button? That's a bummer Can you not get notifications set for only pages you subscribe to or something?
Not that I know of yet. I often think of switching it off altogether, but then I'll miss the decent replies and also lose track of what I've commented on.
Good post, I do see where you're coming from. Obviously nobody should feel obligated to respond to uninvited comments on the street, but I think we should be careful about calling all examples of it 'harassment', and I think a reasonably streetwise person would be able to respond to some of it in the spirit in which it was intended.
Yes I agree that harassment comes across as very strong. I'd stick with cat calling as a term for it but having been in similar situations (although never THAT much in a day thankfully) then I can see why she would feel harassed.
I think ignoring people is probably more likely to lead to a bad situation than simply giving a brief friendly response. Obviously if some loser sleazeball yells out "dayum girrrll, dayum!" there's not much you can or should say, but if someone says "how you doing today?" or "what's up beautiful, have a good day" I don't see why a smile or a brief response would hurt.
I think the woman who made this video chose to be silent because she knew it would encourage people to say more than if she'd responded to them.
Or it would defeat the object of the demonstration. Incidentally - non encouragement = encouragement. Dangerous precedent there. Which ones did she "Encourage"? The ones telling her to smile? The ones who were sitting on the side of the street?
Good post, I do see where you're coming from. Obviously nobody should feel obligated to respond to uninvited comments on the street, but I think we should be careful about calling all examples of it 'harassment', and I think a reasonably streetwise person would be able to respond to some of it in the spirit in which it was intended.
And what is the spirit that the above comments were intended and how is somebody meant to automatically know this, "reasonably streetwise" or not?
Comments
I was with my husband, who was Tunisian, walking along together in broad daylight in his home city there. Obviously we were together and a couple. A man walked towards us, looked at me and turned around and started walking alongside me, attemping to chat me up! Of course, my husband made it clear what would happen if he didn't clear off, but the brass neck of it!
Another time in Morocco, we stepped into a taxi, I happened to look out at a young man who had been watching us. As were drove off, he grabbed his crotch, thrusting it in my direction and started rubbing at himself.
It doesn't only happen there, of course, but it's quite shocking.
Unfortunately though, by smiling or responding, you're effectively telling them that you don't mind being cat called.
I have had it in the past. My walk from the car to office takes maybe 7 minutes door to door on one long stretch of road. I've had men beeping at me from their cars/vans, I've had men say hello or tell me to smile (& some call me names if I don't reapond), I've had a van with three men slow down and drive next me as I'm walking, telling me to look at them, I've even had one guy stop and thrust a soggy card with his number on it offering to buy my shoes (flats that has got wet in the rain)!
But what I'm saying is, if you smile or say hi back at one person, yeah you might just cheer up his day or he might be brazen enough to then take that as lead for something else and he might step up his cat calling (or whatever) next time.
It might just be a smile or hello to you but if you're getting that on a regular basis then it's frustrating. Plus I hate it when people tell me to smile - I could have had anything happen to me to cause me to not smile that morning.
Thankfully I don't get the attention now that I walk around with a pregnant belly!
Because most women aren't looking for any form of communication from strange men, while simply going about our daily business.
If you wouldn't say it to a man, don't say it to a woman. It's not that difficult to understand, is it?
I have notifications turned on, which means I get an e-mail if someone replies to me on there. I use it because people on the local history etc channels that I use, are usually OK and we communicate pleasantly.
It also means that I get responses from knobheads too. Haven't found a way to weed them out yet!
You seem lucky enough never to have come across a posse of hen night 'lovelies' on a Saturday night.
"Hello & Have a nice day".
How dare they!
Yep. Still not seeing how it's acceptable to say something like "men are stupid". Should I assume it's a sentiment you share?
I think ignoring people is probably more likely to lead to a bad situation than simply giving a brief friendly response. Obviously if some loser sleazeball yells out "dayum girrrll, dayum!" there's not much you can or should say, but if someone says "how you doing today?" or "what's up beautiful, have a good day" I don't see why a smile or a brief response would hurt.
I think the woman who made this video chose to be silent because she knew it would encourage people to say more than if she'd responded to them.
Oh
Similar kind of thing happened to myself when walking down the street in various areas in the Far East. On my honeymoon with the wife and women coming onto me infront of her.
Drunken comments are even worse and they do come from both sexes.
However I'm not sure women would comment as much to a mans face in the 'sober' light of day. It seems to be much more a man thing. Is it just a confidence thing perhaps?
Because there's a risk of the guy seeing that as an excuse to latch. I think you have to be female to really know about all this. I'm middle-aged now and that's something I don't miss about being younger.
Definitely. Until you've experienced it for yourself then you may think of it as flattering for a woman but it's really not. If it's happening often enough then it just gets tiresome and, sometimes, creepy.
That's definitely not a good idea.
Yes. Men are stupid.
I still prefer "Gay Daming". It evokes images of David Walliams in a dress walking past saying "OOooohh look at you Luvvy!"
Good post, I do see where you're coming from. Obviously nobody should feel obligated to respond to uninvited comments on the street, but I think we should be careful about calling all examples of it 'harassment', and I think a reasonably streetwise person would be able to respond to some of it in the spirit in which it was intended.
Not that I know of yet. I often think of switching it off altogether, but then I'll miss the decent replies and also lose track of what I've commented on.
Yes I agree that harassment comes across as very strong. I'd stick with cat calling as a term for it but having been in similar situations (although never THAT much in a day thankfully) then I can see why she would feel harassed.
Or it would defeat the object of the demonstration. Incidentally - non encouragement = encouragement. Dangerous precedent there. Which ones did she "Encourage"? The ones telling her to smile? The ones who were sitting on the side of the street?
Absolutely.
It only serves to encourage those losers.
And what is the spirit that the above comments were intended and how is somebody meant to automatically know this, "reasonably streetwise" or not?