The shares in Sunshine FM Limited are owned by individuals, with Virginia Murfin owning the vast majority. She also owns 50% of Murfin Media Limited (which also has accumulated losses at 31 October 2010 - the last available accounts).
To bring it back on topic, it's difficult to see where Sunshine are going to find the funds for DAB.
Be a shame if they vanish,, the only decent local station to be honest, best to stay on FM, go onto DAb and they will lose even more listeners. Free radio can go on DAB only, after all they can't have worse sound quality than what they have.
i can't see this Muxco happening here for many years unless they boast DAB signal because around here it is awful and some people living further out of the city can't get DAB at all
i can't see this Muxco happening here for many years unless they boast DAB signal because around here it is awful and some people living further out of the city can't get DAB at all
Now signed the MOU which means the Herts, Beds & Bucks local mux will launch within 5 years, but sadly may be more than 18 months away.
Before 2017 hardly an endorsement when places like Birmingham had local and regional DAB in 2001!
And those places already asking for DAB+. If DAB+ is the future maybe places like Beds, Herts, Bucks should get it first as an apology for making us wait so long.
i can't see this Muxco happening here for many years unless they boast DAB signal because around here it is awful and some people living further out of the city can't get DAB at all
It's due within 18 months. It could be launched with the Gloucester mux, which they are hoping to launch in late 2012/early 2013.
Phase One also requires five additional local DAB multiplexes to be launched within 18 months of the signing of the MoU. The new multiplexes will be in: Gloucestershire; Hereford and Worcester; Northamptonshire; North East Wales and West Cheshire; and Oxfordshire. [It's our intention that the MuxCo multiplexes will launch very much towards the beginning of this 18 month period]
Before 2017 hardly an endorsement when places like Birmingham had local and regional DAB in 2001!
And those places already asking for DAB+. If DAB+ is the future maybe places like Beds, Herts, Bucks should get it first as an apology for making us wait so long.
DAB+ is just a different way of putting a station on a mux with AAC encoding and a different error correction, a DAB+ station can be applied to any existing mux and could be on air today in the 15% data allocation of each mux, but until more DAB+ enabled sets get sold in the UK is sadly not worth it for any radio group with the few number of listeners with the right sets.
Ed Vaizey might be making all the right noises on an aspiration for radio DSO, but given the current Government's track record on implementing leglislation (pasty tax, fuel tax etc) it doesn't exactly fill me with confidence that this one will happen any time soon.
I don't see any need to listen to it on DAB, in fact if it did go to DAb only then I would not listen to it so much as my Midi system don't have a DAb and I am not buying a DAb unit for it.
I tried to do a total energy calculation on R2 in the DAB vs FM thread and got 14%, whereas this document did Classic FM vs the D1 mux and got 7%?
Please feel free to check this?
Kinda - if a single DAB service is 10% the cost of one BBC network then for the BBC having reducing there electric costs to whatever that works out is going to be a huge saving - i.e. the cost of all DAB is comparable with Radio 2 alone!
That was the best guess I could make kev. One national DAB mux = One national FM.
I don't think it's quite right though. Classic FM covers NI, but D1 doesn't. DAB requires more tx sites than FM (but not if you're Classic FM/D1, who aren't aiming for anything like universal coverage).
So for the BBC, in terms of electricity used at transmitters, DAB is probably 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of FM. Consider AM too and it's even better.
I raise this, not because I think it's a significant factor in switch over, but because it's a really woolly piece of work in the CBA.
So for the BBC, in terms of electricity used at transmitters, DAB is probably 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of FM.
Per station electricity used at transmitters, DAB is arround 7 to 15% the cost of FM.
But the cost of support, transmitter share and land rent, cost of install the cost of national DAB rises to probably 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of national FM?
I think national FM costs were about £2.5m PA in some published documents, whereas national DAB was about £1.2m PA depending on bandwidth used?
Improvements in digital technology support and distribution, will reduce the cost of DAB even more.
Would like to see the actual cost details but doubt if these will be published
Absolute Radio will only renew the licence if it can reduce the cost it pays communications infrastructure company Arqiva for national AM transmission, currently in the millions of pounds.
Good point - who's gonna be in Government in 2019? The signs point to a Labour return (if that happens, I'm leaving the country) and they may take a totally different POV.
Good point - who's gonna be in Government in 2019? The signs point to a Labour return (if that happens, I'm leaving the country) and they may take a totally different POV.
It was Labour that came up with the 2015 switchover date aspiration, so I don't think there will be a different POV.
Well if it does happen, I hope they use more bandwidth than other stations other wise they will not worth listening to
sunshine on Fm is pretty good quality, well as good as you can get by the time they processed the audio, so far I have not heard anything on DAb that is as good and that includes classic FM that have okish bit rates.
I agree with your first line but surely listening in the garden is easier than mobile use. Surely you should be able to access your wifi there?
Not in mine - the hedge just behind the window blocks the WiFi signal out! Internet listening growth rate has constantly been less than DAB (and the latter has seen the rate grow) and is unlikely to change in the near future.
Per station electricity used at transmitters, DAB is arround 7 to 15% the cost of FM.
The point is, the energy cost, or "the cost to the planet", is the total power used to broadcast and receive DAB. The per station cost is a different matter, and irrelevant to that section (though highly relevant to individual stations).
The perception is that the total power used to broadcast DAB is far lower than FM, but the total power used to receive DAB is far higher than FM. I'm not sure either of these is true, and the CBA doesn't help to figure it out.
I think the reciever argument put forward by Gunnar Garfors http://www.garfors.com/2011/01/dab-vs-fm-on-power-consumption.html
is now few new analogue only sets on sale are the old single transister per IF stage with ceramic filter designs but are now FM/AM chipsets with less componants which are easier to make.
But comparing a modern AM/FM chipset with a modern DAB/FM chipset power used is similar, (Gunnar says DAB chipsets use less power)
And finally, the chipsets used for DMB, DAB and DAB+ have improved greatly when it comes to power consumption and a modern DAB chip (25-60mW) now consumes the same amount of power as what is the case for an FM chip (30-60mW). And work is being undertaken to further cut power consumption of DAB. A chipset manufacturer I talked to said that their short term goal is 20mW, which will then be substantially below FM.
DAB. Much Greener Radio.
But guess there are quite a few of the old analogue traditionally designed sets (not based on chipsets) around which are very low power consumption. But over time these will start to stop working and the skills to fix them will be hard to find!
Table 1 – Overall summary
Average all products (W)
Power consumption in-use DAB
6.96
Power consumption in-use FM
9.80
Power consumption in-use FM only*
6.34
Power consumption internet
14.75
Standby power consumption
2.44
But in the
Tabletop/portables
DAB
4.68
138%
2.15
+90%
FM (in DAB)
4.74
141%
FM only
1.97
1.13
I can only think the FM only sets were more efficient as they may have been traditional designs which did not use chips or RDS displays?
But the tests overall shows modern DAB chip power consumption is progressively getting lower!
The point is, the energy cost, or "the cost to the planet", is the total power used to broadcast and receive DAB. The per station cost is a different matter, and irrelevant to that section (though highly relevant to individual stations).
Not quite if we had 23 national stations on FM (rather than the current 5) the power used would be much more then 23 stations on DAB!
Thanks Matt so hopefully see some progress in Surrey,
notice from the blog Gloucester may make it on air in 2012 along with Wrexham, Chester and Liverpool ! Hope it goes well
What is going to happen up here on the Wirral? I tried listening on the way home from Liverpool last night on my DAB Walkman on the bus. Out of the tunnel Gold didn't reappear and I couldn't get it for more than a few seconds all the way to West Kirby. Magic couldn't be reliably received until past the Laird Street bus depot, but lost over Ford Hill. Only Smooth 70's seems reliable of the stations I tune to at night. On a radio they're all usually fine, but a Walkman is a waste of time.
Will this change with whatever is being suggested with Wrexham? If not, roll on Gold on FM!
What is going to happen up here on the Wirral? I tried listening on the way home from Liverpool last night on my DAB Walkman on the bus. Out of the tunnel Gold didn't reappear and I couldn't get it for more than a few seconds all the way to West Kirby. Magic couldn't be reliably received until past the Laird Street bus depot, but lost over Ford Hill. Only Smooth 70's seems reliable of the stations I tune to at night. On a radio they're all usually fine, but a Walkman is a waste of time.
Will this change with whatever is being suggested with Wrexham? If not, roll on Gold on FM!
It is proposed the Liverpool local mux will change to 10C and be added to Moel y Parc which improve reception. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/radio/coverage/dab-coverage/
But Gold and several other stations are on the regional MXR mux which will soon be fully owned by Global, and is on sites like Moel y Parc, but will need to boost the power to improve reception levels? Maybe later they might, but are probably more thinking about how to change Real into Heart and what to do with Smooth, if it will or not merge with Gold on FM?
What is going to happen up here on the Wirral? I tried listening on the way home from Liverpool last night on my DAB Walkman on the bus. Out of the tunnel Gold didn't reappear and I couldn't get it for more than a few seconds all the way to West Kirby. Magic couldn't be reliably received until past the Laird Street bus depot, but lost over Ford Hill. Only Smooth 70's seems reliable of the stations I tune to at night. On a radio they're all usually fine, but a Walkman is a waste of time.
Will this change with whatever is being suggested with Wrexham? If not, roll on Gold on FM!
It is proposed the Liverpool local mux will change to 10C and be added to Moel y Parc which improve reception. http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/radio/coverage/dab-coverage/
But Gold and several other stations are on the regional MXR mux which will soon be fully owned by Global, and is on sites like Moel y Parc, but will need to boost the power to improve reception levels? Maybe later they might, but are probably more thinking about how to change Real into Heart and what to do with Smooth, if it will or not merge with Gold on FM?
In relation to MXR they are going to add St Johns Beacon, move to the national antenna on Moel-y-Parc and Winter Hill:
Interesting and guess Ofcom have had discussions with Global and Arqiva about improving MXR but Global, as owners, under the MOU do not have to do anything about it until a confirmed date for a radio DSO is announced?
Comments
Be a shame if they vanish,, the only decent local station to be honest, best to stay on FM, go onto DAb and they will lose even more listeners. Free radio can go on DAB only, after all they can't have worse sound quality than what they have.
i can't see this Muxco happening here for many years unless they boast DAB signal because around here it is awful and some people living further out of the city can't get DAB at all
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/dab-coverage-planning/AnnexB/DSO_10B_Hereford_Worcester_1.pdf
Before 2017 hardly an endorsement when places like Birmingham had local and regional DAB in 2001!
And those places already asking for DAB+. If DAB+ is the future maybe places like Beds, Herts, Bucks should get it first as an apology for making us wait so long.
It's due within 18 months. It could be launched with the Gloucester mux, which they are hoping to launch in late 2012/early 2013.
http://www.muxco.com/blog/2012/07/02/signing-the-mou/
http://www.revo.co.uk/digital-radio/revo-mondo.php
http://www.revo.co.uk/digital-radio/revo-mondo-wifi.php
That was the best guess I could make kev. One national DAB mux = One national FM.
I don't think it's quite right though. Classic FM covers NI, but D1 doesn't. DAB requires more tx sites than FM (but not if you're Classic FM/D1, who aren't aiming for anything like universal coverage).
So for the BBC, in terms of electricity used at transmitters, DAB is probably 1/2 to 1/3 the cost of FM. Consider AM too and it's even better.
I raise this, not because I think it's a significant factor in switch over, but because it's a really woolly piece of work in the CBA.
Cheers,
David.
But the cost of support, transmitter share and land rent, cost of install the cost of national DAB rises to probably 1/3 to 1/2 the cost of national FM?
I think national FM costs were about £2.5m PA in some published documents, whereas national DAB was about £1.2m PA depending on bandwidth used?
Improvements in digital technology support and distribution, will reduce the cost of DAB even more.
Would like to see the actual cost details but doubt if these will be published
According to a mention in mediaweek the national MW costs is even more than FM or DAB
http://www.mediaweek.co.uk/news/1052098/ edit the cost of £2.5m PA for the FM networks came from
http://grantgoddardradioblog.blogspot.co.uk/2010/06/cost-of-upgrading-dab-radio-why-it-will.html
but the estimate of running and expanding DAB networks is now much lower than the estimated figures in his blog.
It was Labour that came up with the 2015 switchover date aspiration, so I don't think there will be a different POV.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jun/16/digital-britain-analogue-radio-switchoff
Ben Bradshaw was culture secretary in the last Government and he is still their culture spokesman.
Well if it does happen, I hope they use more bandwidth than other stations other wise they will not worth listening to
sunshine on Fm is pretty good quality, well as good as you can get by the time they processed the audio, so far I have not heard anything on DAb that is as good and that includes classic FM that have okish bit rates.
i doubt it unless the price of mobile internet comes down to a level that makes it affordable.
Then what about when I want to listen to the radio in the garden?
Not in mine - the hedge just behind the window blocks the WiFi signal out! Internet listening growth rate has constantly been less than DAB (and the latter has seen the rate grow) and is unlikely to change in the near future.
What if I don't have Wi-fi? I do, but I have got it on the lowest power I can, it just about makes it outside the house, but i lose it in the garden.
The perception is that the total power used to broadcast DAB is far lower than FM, but the total power used to receive DAB is far higher than FM. I'm not sure either of these is true, and the CBA doesn't help to figure it out.
Cheers,
David.
http://www.garfors.com/2011/01/dab-vs-fm-on-power-consumption.html
is now few new analogue only sets on sale are the old single transister per IF stage with ceramic filter designs but are now FM/AM chipsets with less componants which are easier to make.
But comparing a modern AM/FM chipset with a modern DAB/FM chipset power used is similar, (Gunnar says DAB chipsets use less power)
But guess there are quite a few of the old analogue traditionally designed sets (not based on chipsets) around which are very low power consumption. But over time these will start to stop working and the skills to fix them will be hard to find!
http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/digitalradios_energyconsumption_report.pdf
http://www.culture.gov.uk/images/publications/DAB_Radios_Results_Table.pdf
the summary showed FM and DAB to be similar
But in the I can only think the FM only sets were more efficient as they may have been traditional designs which did not use chips or RDS displays?
But the tests overall shows modern DAB chip power consumption is progressively getting lower!
Not quite if we had 23 national stations on FM (rather than the current 5) the power used would be much more then 23 stations on DAB!
What is going to happen up here on the Wirral? I tried listening on the way home from Liverpool last night on my DAB Walkman on the bus. Out of the tunnel Gold didn't reappear and I couldn't get it for more than a few seconds all the way to West Kirby. Magic couldn't be reliably received until past the Laird Street bus depot, but lost over Ford Hill. Only Smooth 70's seems reliable of the stations I tune to at night. On a radio they're all usually fine, but a Walkman is a waste of time.
Will this change with whatever is being suggested with Wrexham? If not, roll on Gold on FM!
http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/radio/coverage/dab-coverage/
But Gold and several other stations are on the regional MXR mux which will soon be fully owned by Global, and is on sites like Moel y Parc, but will need to boost the power to improve reception levels? Maybe later they might, but are probably more thinking about how to change Real into Heart and what to do with Smooth, if it will or not merge with Gold on FM?
In relation to MXR they are going to add St Johns Beacon, move to the national antenna on Moel-y-Parc and Winter Hill:
Page 7 under "Outgoing interference and sensitivity to other co-block multiplexes": http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/binaries/consultations/dab-coverage-planning/AnnexB/DSO_12C_Nottingham_DAB_V2_0.pdf
http://www.culture.gov.uk/publications/9197.aspx