I thought it was a pebble. I thought that the man had put stones in the matress, in order to make the person who slept in it's back hurt. So they would want to take a bath in the morning, I'm quite sure that was what happened.
Quite right..if you choose to ignore the scene where Jonathan/Joey explain the setup to the magician's mother and he explicitly tells her about the goo coming from the canopy to make them take a bath and that it is now home to insects. Oh and, while you are at it, choose to ignore the scene slightly later where the mother goes " so it was soap he picked up not a pebble"
Yeh well I wasn't listening the whole way through, and It seems weird that there would be soap in the bedroom..... To be honest I don't see how soap being on the floor could incriminate anyone in the first place, that's why I just assumed that it was stones in the matress.
The whole reasoning behind it was that he wanted to hide the soap so no-one would suspect that he had taken a bath - otherwise people may have thought "Well he must have survived the night and went to take a bath this morning" and then led them to an explanation. Also if the room had been sitting locked up for years, a bar of soap sitting on the ground may have stuck out like a sore thumb.
Ah I see. Well I wasn't watching very closely. It was so long and very confusing. I used to love the series when I was a kid... I liked the disapearing alien ep.
I liked the bath bit, very clever. But I didn't nottice the bit about the soap.... I mean why wouldn't the soap have been on the bathroom floor with the man, who would be using it for washing. Why on the bedroom floor? And plus it was all worn down.... I don't understand?
I found this episode to be ok, nothing special just ok. I was a little surprised that when Joey's friend vanished (Mina, was it?) the police were nowhere to be seen. Surely, if someone vanished like that the police would be all over the place. It was an ok episode, although Sheridan Smith (or 'Smiffy' as she was called in Gavin and Stacey) was good as the female lead.
The whole reasoning behind it was that he wanted to hide the soap so no-one would suspect that he had taken a bath - otherwise people may have thought "Well he must have survived the night and went to take a bath this morning" and then led them to an explanation. Also if the room had been sitting locked up for years, a bar of soap sitting on the ground may have stuck out like a sore thumb.
Another problem though. How long would they wait for the guest to appear? Surely the back would still be wet and they would have known he took a bath?
I do apologise if this has already been posted but what really got on my tits about the whole episode was number 1 when her mate went missing & no one thought it might be a good idea to call the police.
number 2 is the bath tub scene & once again no one calls the police.
I think it's fair to say that the lack of a police investigation is the biggest problem with what was an already problematic plot. Most previous Creek stories found ways to get round the problem of having an amateur sleuth solving major crimes but this one didn't even try.
I think it's fair to say that the lack of a police investigation is the biggest problem with what was an already problematic plot. Most previous Creek stories found ways to get round the problem of having an amateur sleuth solving major crimes but this one didn't even try.
but how seriously would the police take it. no body plus she's an adult. wouldn't she simply be a missing person?
What I meant was the people who went to the room to find the guest would see that the bath was still wet and so would have known they took, or at least filled, the bath.
I thought that the man had put stones in the matress, in order to make the person who slept in it's back hurt. So they would want to take a bath in the morning, I'm quite sure that was what happened.
Well the 2 flashbacks that we see show us it was whatever that they got covered in was the reason why they took the bath.So i'm guessing that was the running theme for the others that ended up also in the water tank.
It’s been a week now since the episode and I’m still thinking about it.
I’ve realised that it has an awful lot in common with Satan’s Chimney, that other Christmas special. When I began watching this episode, I remember thinking: “mysterious old building where guests mysteriously vanish. I hope this doesn’t turn out to be as morbid as Satan’s Chimney. Of course, it was just as morbid.
Oh and another thing I didn’t like about the episode
Another thing that bugged me… We all know that the moment where Jonathan explains how the trick is done is supposed to be the most important scene of the episode. But this time that moment is totally weak and underplayed. He sort of second-guesses himself, first telling us how the trick was done quickly, then saying it’s not that, then changing his mind. All this second-guessing really weakens the blow of discovering the trick, especially when coupled with the very poor addition of the dead bird detail.
When the trick is revealled in a two-hour episode, we really need a big buildup to the revellation. Dramatic music. Well scripted way of saying it. (Remember the classic Jonathan Creek line: “What was it you said…?”) We need lots of reactions and closeups and emotion. Certainly we need someone who gives a damn to be present when he says it. And most of all we need to be hit with it hard. In one big punch. Not: “well, I thought it might be this, but it’s not that. But now actually I think it is.” All of this said while we’re watching a CGI building.
Oh, and that CGI building really bugged me, too. Remember the Creek episode where Jonathan describes the difference between a pan and a tracking shot? That seems very relevant here. We have this recurring a shot of the building, apparently taken from slightly above the height of the building, but as the camera moves, it is clearly tracking not panning, making the shot look very conspicuously not real. From the amount of movement of the point of view, it looks like a small model.
Actually, with all due respect to Renwick, I am starting to think this episode was a bit sucky. If this had been 1 of a 6-episode run, I would have been perfectly satisfied. But this being a 2 hour special, it wasn’t good enough. I think the only reason that I enjoyed it more at the time is that Creek has been away for so long, so seeing any new episode was extremely welcome. (Sorry David, if by some chance you are reading. I do love you really!)
Probably best not to over analyse JC unless you enjoy finding plot holes and hacknyed tricks to fool the viewer. Just enjoy the show, tbh
For instance, watching "4x04 - seer of the sands" recently, noted two things, how on earth did that woman know that the girlfriend from the US would be at that beach, and be able to plant the bottle.
Also, the noise made by the "seer" when she can't guess the secret word is very artificial and made for us audiences only.
Oh and the coincidence with the little bug thing falling on the paper to give the comma? Sillyness to the max, but then that's what JC is all about, and magic in general, is highly contrived situations, so round and round we go in circles.
I mean why wouldn't the soap have been on the bathroom floor with the man, who would be using it for washing. Why on the bedroom floor? And plus it was all worn down.... I don't understand?
soap in the 1930s (the 'pebble' bt referred back to the old woman's memories of the original disappearance of the psychic debunker when her father owned the house) wouldn't have been like today's soap plus a used bar wears away....hence small and worn. And we saw a flashback of him going into the bath - the force of the fall coupled with his struggles caused the soap to fly backwards out of his hand at pace and it up going through the door into the next room
Watched Time Waits for Norman on G.O.L.D. yesterday and it was a masterclass in how to do Jonathan Creek right:
• A proper mystery (how did a man lose his wallet in a burger bar in England when he was in the US at the time?) and although there's no need for police involvement the solution changes several people's lives.
• Strong comedy elements including black comedy and darkly misanthropic humour.
• Real chemistry and sexual tension between Jonathan and his female sidekick.
• Enough information to allow the viewer to try to solve the case without it being obvious.
• No gratuitous breasts.
I remember being a bit underwhelmed by Time Waits for Norman when it was first shown but it benefits from repeated viewing, something I doubt will be true of The Grinning Man.
I watched that at about 3am this morning
The only thing I can't understand is why after the calls to the US to confirm he was there they didn't ask what he looked like? Maybe that's only a though you get after the fact.
• No gratuitous breasts.
That could have been a bonus in the Grinning Man Or maybe you have a HD tv and got a better view than me
In case anyone hasn't seen the episode in question:
He didn't do any of the overseas trips himself, but always arranged for his former business partner to pretend to be him, so as far as the NY office was concerned the guy who they saw really was Norman
Watched Time Waits for Norman on G.O.L.D. yesterday and it was a masterclass in how to do Jonathan Creek right:
• A proper mystery (how did a man lose his wallet in a burger bar in England when he was in the US at the time?) and although there's no need for police involvement the solution changes several people's lives.
• Strong comedy elements including black comedy and darkly misanthropic humour.
• Real chemistry and sexual tension between Jonathan and his female sidekick.
• Enough information to allow the viewer to try to solve the case without it being obvious.
• No gratuitous breasts.
I remember being a bit underwhelmed by Time Waits for Norman when it was first shown but it benefits from repeated viewing, something I doubt will be true of The Grinning Man.
Time Waits for Norman is my all time favourite JC episode... it had absolutely everything........not to mention the fact that I found "Norman" very attractive !!! Each to their own I suppose.
NOW......... on a more positive note.... DIE HARD JC fans....... Caroline Quentin was on TV in the last few days and answered a few emails from fans, and confirmed that SHE WILL RETURN TO JC if asked !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it missed CQ, and I must admit, I guessed the room wasn't where it was supposed to be , yet didn't figure out why that mattered. I said from the off that the bath was the key to it - I assumed that it was simply a trapdoor that somebody could emerge from. when they said the room was 'air-tight' I had the nasty thought of gas-chamber - the hole above being a nozzle and weight on the bed being the trigger.
what confused me a little was the stage torso for the wife - tuna-sized red herring. i'd assumed there was a scam going on there.
the newspaper in the video was soooo obviously a set up, which brought us back to the local paper lady introduced earlier. I was starting to have Witches of Eastwick flashbacks...
enjoyed it, but not as satisfying as it should have been.
Comments
Quite right..if you choose to ignore the scene where Jonathan/Joey explain the setup to the magician's mother and he explicitly tells her about the goo coming from the canopy to make them take a bath and that it is now home to insects. Oh and, while you are at it, choose to ignore the scene slightly later where the mother goes " so it was soap he picked up not a pebble"
Ah I see. Well I wasn't watching very closely. It was so long and very confusing. I used to love the series when I was a kid... I liked the disapearing alien ep.
I liked the bath bit, very clever. But I didn't nottice the bit about the soap.... I mean why wouldn't the soap have been on the bathroom floor with the man, who would be using it for washing. Why on the bedroom floor? And plus it was all worn down.... I don't understand?
K
number 2 is the bath tub scene & once again no one calls the police.
but how seriously would the police take it. no body plus she's an adult. wouldn't she simply be a missing person?
Well the 2 flashbacks that we see show us it was whatever that they got covered in was the reason why they took the bath.So i'm guessing that was the running theme for the others that ended up also in the water tank.
I’ve realised that it has an awful lot in common with Satan’s Chimney, that other Christmas special. When I began watching this episode, I remember thinking: “mysterious old building where guests mysteriously vanish. I hope this doesn’t turn out to be as morbid as Satan’s Chimney. Of course, it was just as morbid.
Oh and another thing I didn’t like about the episode
Another thing that bugged me… We all know that the moment where Jonathan explains how the trick is done is supposed to be the most important scene of the episode. But this time that moment is totally weak and underplayed. He sort of second-guesses himself, first telling us how the trick was done quickly, then saying it’s not that, then changing his mind. All this second-guessing really weakens the blow of discovering the trick, especially when coupled with the very poor addition of the dead bird detail.
When the trick is revealled in a two-hour episode, we really need a big buildup to the revellation. Dramatic music. Well scripted way of saying it. (Remember the classic Jonathan Creek line: “What was it you said…?”) We need lots of reactions and closeups and emotion. Certainly we need someone who gives a damn to be present when he says it. And most of all we need to be hit with it hard. In one big punch. Not: “well, I thought it might be this, but it’s not that. But now actually I think it is.” All of this said while we’re watching a CGI building.
Oh, and that CGI building really bugged me, too. Remember the Creek episode where Jonathan describes the difference between a pan and a tracking shot? That seems very relevant here. We have this recurring a shot of the building, apparently taken from slightly above the height of the building, but as the camera moves, it is clearly tracking not panning, making the shot look very conspicuously not real. From the amount of movement of the point of view, it looks like a small model.
Actually, with all due respect to Renwick, I am starting to think this episode was a bit sucky. If this had been 1 of a 6-episode run, I would have been perfectly satisfied. But this being a 2 hour special, it wasn’t good enough. I think the only reason that I enjoyed it more at the time is that Creek has been away for so long, so seeing any new episode was extremely welcome. (Sorry David, if by some chance you are reading. I do love you really!)
For instance, watching "4x04 - seer of the sands" recently, noted two things, how on earth did that woman know that the girlfriend from the US would be at that beach, and be able to plant the bottle.
Also, the noise made by the "seer" when she can't guess the secret word is very artificial and made for us audiences only.
Oh and the coincidence with the little bug thing falling on the paper to give the comma? Sillyness to the max, but then that's what JC is all about, and magic in general, is highly contrived situations, so round and round we go in circles.
soap in the 1930s (the 'pebble' bt referred back to the old woman's memories of the original disappearance of the psychic debunker when her father owned the house) wouldn't have been like today's soap plus a used bar wears away....hence small and worn. And we saw a flashback of him going into the bath - the force of the fall coupled with his struggles caused the soap to fly backwards out of his hand at pace and it up going through the door into the next room
• A proper mystery (how did a man lose his wallet in a burger bar in England when he was in the US at the time?) and although there's no need for police involvement the solution changes several people's lives.
• Strong comedy elements including black comedy and darkly misanthropic humour.
• Real chemistry and sexual tension between Jonathan and his female sidekick.
• Enough information to allow the viewer to try to solve the case without it being obvious.
• No gratuitous breasts.
I remember being a bit underwhelmed by Time Waits for Norman when it was first shown but it benefits from repeated viewing, something I doubt will be true of The Grinning Man.
The only thing I can't understand is why after the calls to the US to confirm he was there they didn't ask what he looked like? Maybe that's only a though you get after the fact.
That could have been a bonus in the Grinning Man
So it was a watertight plan until it went wrong!
Time Waits for Norman is my all time favourite JC episode... it had absolutely everything........not to mention the fact that I found "Norman" very attractive !!! Each to their own I suppose.
NOW......... on a more positive note.... DIE HARD JC fans....... Caroline Quentin was on TV in the last few days and answered a few emails from fans, and confirmed that SHE WILL RETURN TO JC if asked !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you listening to this David Renwick !!!!!!!!
what confused me a little was the stage torso for the wife - tuna-sized red herring. i'd assumed there was a scam going on there.
the newspaper in the video was soooo obviously a set up, which brought us back to the local paper lady introduced earlier. I was starting to have Witches of Eastwick flashbacks...
enjoyed it, but not as satisfying as it should have been.
There might be a good chance that GOLD show it at some point.
I really hope there will be a new series with the Christmas cast.