Not so much actually, I was thinking more of the likes of Rhythm Stick and UKMikey.
Maybe I am from another planet where getting a bit upset over something like this somehow makes my opinions less worthy in their eyes?
When did I say anything remotely resembling the BIB? If anything the opposite is true as it was you that decided to have a go at us for not being emotionally involved enough in the case. Look, I feel sorry for the victim and even suggested he appeal but pointed out that it didn't seem likely to me that he'd receive the kind of justice you're asking for.
I wonder if the people who are being quite cold towards the victim in the name of reciting sentencing guidelines would be so passionless if such an attack happened to them or their loved one?
Yes, why not lock them away and throw away the key.
Or why not try him for rape and extortion as well?
The offence was ABH, regardless of how many times somebody was "stamped" on. That does not entail 10 years in prision.If we are judging by "stamps" perhaps you would like to define the various offences that vary with the amount of "stamping". Geordie has it as 18 stamps is "attempted Murder", is 10 "Stamps" GBH? 5 ABH? 1 common assault ?
I have actually been booted in the head, hard. Still don't think the person who did it was trying to murder me, and since it didn't actually do anything, It wouldn't have even been ABH. So there sweetiepie. Try to find some rationality,
stamping on someones head 18 times is attempted murder as far as im concerned, not sure why he wasnt charged with that.
100% agreed. Although the law sees it differently - link
Attempted murder requires an intention to kill. Accordingly, an offender convicted of this offence will have demonstrated a high level of culpability. Even so, the precise level of culpability will vary in line with the circumstances of the offence and whether the offence was planned or spontaneous. The use of a weapon may influence this assessment.
It is debatable whether there was an intention to kill. You could argue that the attackers were so moronic, as to not fully appreciate the potential effects of stamping on someone's head 18 times.
Just one stamp could induce unconsciousness. Another might cause a bleed on the brain, or brain damage. Any bleed in the brain can easily cause death or PVS..
18 times is easily enough to cause death or permanent injury. The victim has been lucky.
Either way they should definitely have seen jail time.
What was he trying to do when stamping on his head as he lay on the ground? Tickle him? Actions speak louder than words my friend.
charging them with attempted murder would have most likely resulted in an acquittal because the crime does not fit the criteria. the cps don`t just open the big book of offences and stick a pin in, they are trained in law.
So the guidelines say that they should have got off?
No of course not, but the CPS can change the charges at its discretion (like a plea deal). They like to look after their own, so they will give them a soft judge on reduced charges. If it was a young black male, maybe muslim, then its time to talk about the death penalty again.
Its hard to judge the law, because it really depends who is being tried. If you have money or are part of the legal system (or army it seems), you can pretty much get away with murder.
No of course not, but the CPS can change the charges at its discretion (like a plea deal). They like to look after their own, so they will give them a soft judge on reduced charges. If it was a young black male, maybe muslim, then its time to talk about the death penalty again.
Its hard to judge the law, because it really depends who is being tried. If you have money or are part of the legal system (or army it seems), you can pretty much get away with murder.
they also will pick a lesser charge if they think it will secure a conviction and the heavier case might be lost.
Both of these were charged with gbh and both victims sustained similar injuries
"Similiar" - The latter hadhad four of his front teeth knocked out and he was charged with ABH for his friend. Sadly that will have a longer term affect on the injured party than a fractured cheek bone. The Victim in the former had a fractured arm, a jaw broken in two places, requiring surgery and lost teeth. Not too mention that there several aggravating factors in both cases with little mitigation!
The victim in this particular case had a fractured cheek bone and suffered serve bruising suffered, with apparently at least 3 points of mitigation.
But they had it on CCTV, its not like it would be hard to prove it was more than self defense.
they`re the legal experts, i assume they have a rough idea what`s going to stick and what isn`t and the injuries the victim sustained are instrumental in the charge.
Charging Assault cases
When deciding on the appropriate charge in most assault cases, prosecutors and police officers should base their decisions on:
The level of injuries that have resulted; and
The likely sentence that the court will pass.
In more serious cases where offences of inflicting grievous bodily harm or wounding with intent or attempted murder are being considered, the level of intent will also be a key determining factor.
For all other cases, it is the level of injuries and the likely sentence that are crucial. In simple terms, Parliament has determined that there should be separate offences reflecting three levels of injury - Common Assault, ABH and GBH.
As a starting point, where there is no injury or injuries which are not serious, the offence charged should generally be Common Assault. Where there is serious injury and the likely sentence is clearly more than six months' imprisonment the offence charged should generally be ABH. And where there is really serious injury the offence charged should generally be GBH.
Very occasionally, it will be necessary to depart from this basic approach in cases where the injuries are at the lower end of the scale of seriousness. In such cases the level of injury will not be the only factor to be considered, as this may not alone accurately reflect the nature and seriousness of the offence as a whole. The presence of aggravating factors will be highly relevant to the likely sentence - by way of example, an injury may not of itself turn out to be serious but the manner in which it was caused (such as through strangulation) may indicate that a sentence of more than six months is likely. However, the aggravating factors should never in themselves be the basis for deciding the appropriate charge.
In assessing the likely sentence that will be passed and thus the appropriate assault charge, the Definitive Guideline provides valuable assistance to prosecutors and police officers. By assessing the harm and culpability of the offender with reference to the framework set out in the Definitive Guideline, prosecutors and police officers will be able to determine both the starting points and category ranges for sentence.
Careful consideration of the Definitive Guideline can therefore be a vital part of the review and decision-making process in assault cases.
Rhythm Stick, I do understand what you and others are saying. The guidelines are what they are. Is it so wrong to thing the guidelines are wrong and to be upset by that, to show a bit of passion? Admittedly I can be prone to knee jerk reactions with stories like this but I'm only human. I don't think mocking me and talking to me like I'm a moron is fair.
Yes, clearly a similar case and clearly a case of ABH... leaving a victim with BRAIN DAMAGE. A Broken Jaw requiring surgery, Broken noise, swelling on the brain. Memory loss, balance issues and of course being knocked unconscious and left for dead.
Rhythm Stick, I do understand what you and others are saying. The guidelines are what they are. Is it so wrong to thing the guidelines are wrong and to be upset by that, to show a bit of passion? Admittedly I can be prone to knee jerk reactions with stories like this but I'm only human. I don't think mocking me and talking to me like I'm a moron is fair.
i havn`t seen anyone do this have posts been removed or something?
Rhythm Stick, I do understand what you and others are saying. The guidelines are what they are. Is it so wrong to thing the guidelines are wrong and to be upset by that, to show a bit of passion? Admittedly I can be prone to knee jerk reactions with stories like this but I'm only human. I don't think mocking me and talking to me like I'm a moron is fair.
My tone is plenty fair if you're going to make me out to be a **** for looking at the situation rationally and dispassionately as an outside observer.
Only on Digital Spy could someone be made out to be the bad guy because they got a bit upset over a horrible violent crime and dare to question our justice system.
Clearly these sort of threads aren't for me, so I give up.
Yes, clearly a similar case and clearly a case of ABH... leaving a victim with BRAIN DAMAGE. A Broken Jaw requiring surgery, Broken noise, swelling on the brain. Memory loss, balance issues and of course being knocked unconscious and left for dead.
clearly similar to this case...
well heres the thing, should the punishment be worse because of the outcome, i ask because a while back i was discussing a story where a taxi driver was messing on his phone and had crashed into a family car and the young girl was seriously brain damaged, will never walk or talk again, all he got was a £250 fine an 6 points, i was told by almost everyone on here that the outcome shouldnt determine the punishment, only the act itself, so he got a lenient sentence because his actual crime wasnt "serious", surely that would also apply here, whereby it doesnt matter the outcome, only the initial crime, which i think certainly calls for prison time.
Comments
Yes, why not lock them away and throw away the key.
Or why not try him for rape and extortion as well?
The offence was ABH, regardless of how many times somebody was "stamped" on. That does not entail 10 years in prision.If we are judging by "stamps" perhaps you would like to define the various offences that vary with the amount of "stamping". Geordie has it as 18 stamps is "attempted Murder", is 10 "Stamps" GBH? 5 ABH? 1 common assault ?
I have actually been booted in the head, hard. Still don't think the person who did it was trying to murder me, and since it didn't actually do anything, It wouldn't have even been ABH. So there sweetiepie. Try to find some rationality,
So what offence should have been charged then?
100% agreed. Although the law sees it differently - link
It is debatable whether there was an intention to kill. You could argue that the attackers were so moronic, as to not fully appreciate the potential effects of stamping on someone's head 18 times.
Just one stamp could induce unconsciousness. Another might cause a bleed on the brain, or brain damage. Any bleed in the brain can easily cause death or PVS..
18 times is easily enough to cause death or permanent injury. The victim has been lucky.
Either way they should definitely have seen jail time.
being capable of stepping back and looking at facts isn`t indicative of a lack of emotion.
charging them with attempted murder would have most likely resulted in an acquittal because the crime does not fit the criteria. the cps don`t just open the big book of offences and stick a pin in, they are trained in law.
Son showed no remorse for stamping on mother’s head up to TEN times
http://metro.co.uk/2014/10/14/jailed-son-who-showed-no-remorse-for-stamping-on-mothers-head-up-to-ten-times-4905481/
Smirking thug ran up and kicked victim's head 'like taking a penalty' at music festival
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2886499/Smirking-thug-ran-kicked-victim-s-head-like-taking-penalty-music-festival.html
Both of these were charged with gbh and both victims sustained similar injuries
No of course not, but the CPS can change the charges at its discretion (like a plea deal). They like to look after their own, so they will give them a soft judge on reduced charges. If it was a young black male, maybe muslim, then its time to talk about the death penalty again.
Its hard to judge the law, because it really depends who is being tried. If you have money or are part of the legal system (or army it seems), you can pretty much get away with murder.
they also will pick a lesser charge if they think it will secure a conviction and the heavier case might be lost.
But they had it on CCTV, its not like it would be hard to prove it was more than self defense.
"Similiar" - The latter hadhad four of his front teeth knocked out and he was charged with ABH for his friend. Sadly that will have a longer term affect on the injured party than a fractured cheek bone. The Victim in the former had a fractured arm, a jaw broken in two places, requiring surgery and lost teeth. Not too mention that there several aggravating factors in both cases with little mitigation!
The victim in this particular case had a fractured cheek bone and suffered serve bruising suffered, with apparently at least 3 points of mitigation.
Yes completely similar cases there Reg!
they`re the legal experts, i assume they have a rough idea what`s going to stick and what isn`t and the injuries the victim sustained are instrumental in the charge.
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offences_against_the_person/
Yes, clearly a similar case and clearly a case of ABH... leaving a victim with BRAIN DAMAGE. A Broken Jaw requiring surgery, Broken noise, swelling on the brain. Memory loss, balance issues and of course being knocked unconscious and left for dead.
clearly similar to this case...
i havn`t seen anyone do this have posts been removed or something?
My tone is plenty fair if you're going to make me out to be a **** for looking at the situation rationally and dispassionately as an outside observer.
So what should this guy have been charged with?
Clearly these sort of threads aren't for me, so I give up.
well heres the thing, should the punishment be worse because of the outcome, i ask because a while back i was discussing a story where a taxi driver was messing on his phone and had crashed into a family car and the young girl was seriously brain damaged, will never walk or talk again, all he got was a £250 fine an 6 points, i was told by almost everyone on here that the outcome shouldnt determine the punishment, only the act itself, so he got a lenient sentence because his actual crime wasnt "serious", surely that would also apply here, whereby it doesnt matter the outcome, only the initial crime, which i think certainly calls for prison time.
Link