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UFC Discussion Thread

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    burbsburbs Posts: 1,029
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    DanVitale wrote:
    GSP is out of the UFC 67 Welterweight title match vs Matt Serra. He will be fit to fight in April.

    Serra is a lucky chappy IMO, GSP would have smashed his smug face all over the cage.
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    burbsburbs Posts: 1,029
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    Well yet another quality display from Chuck. Tito could not have done much better, i have not seen Tito fight better than that for a long time. He made a mistake by getting involved in an exchange and Chuck showed him that he had made a mistake.

    I dont think Chuck will fight Rampage next, Rampage is against Eastman (as far as im aware), i think they will drag the whole Rampage v Chuck fight out for a while yet.

    Keith Jardine scored a nice victory, but i dont know what it is, i just cant stand him. He hasnt done anything wrong as such, i just cant stand him.

    Bisping is going to be a force, really good fighter and i think he will go far.

    UFC is really starting to get even more exciting.

    I wonder who is going to buy Pride. Vince Mcmahon was said to be intested but he has said he has pulled out of talks and no longer wants it. Looks likely that UFC will snap it up now!!
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,583
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    Serra doesn't stand a chance against GSP, my prediction is he gets KO'd in the first.
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    petestanpetestan Posts: 3,527
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    Hi guys just a quick question. I see UFC 70 at Manchester is going to be "live" on Setanta, will Bravo be showing it delayed 24 hours as usual or not this time.

    Provided Bravo is still on sky by that time given the way virgin and sky are fighting at the moment.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 3,597
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    So whats everyones thoughts on The Uprising?

    My heart says Couture......my head says Sylvia

    Anyone going to the M.E.N?

    Got your tickets yet.? roll on April
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 878
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    I would love to see Randy defeat Sylvia but my mind is thinking that is will be another five round borefest from the champion with his sprawling methods and no way will he want to be involved in a grapple with Couture. Then again, if Tim does win then this will set up the mouth watering clash with Cro Cop - and I see that with a victory for the Croatian in very little time.
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 5,174
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    Not gonna spoil it for people watching on Bravo, but Sylvia and Couture is a CLASSIC.
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    petestanpetestan Posts: 3,527
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    petestan wrote:
    Hi guys just a quick question. I see UFC 70 at Manchester is going to be "live" on Setanta, will Bravo be showing it delayed 24 hours as usual or not this time.

    I've just been looking on the Bravo forums and it seems from reading the postings that UFC70 will be PPV only and won't be shown on Bravo can anyone confirm that for me please. Much appreciated.

    I have to agree with the above poster about the fight between Randy Couture and Tim Silvia, in fact all the matches were good tonight. :)
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    burbsburbs Posts: 1,029
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    petestan wrote:
    I've just been looking on the Bravo forums and it seems from reading the postings that UFC70 will be PPV only and won't be shown on Bravo can anyone confirm that for me please. Much appreciated.

    I have to agree with the above poster about the fight between Randy Couture and Tim Silvia, in fact all the matches were good tonight. :)

    Over on Sherdog they also say that it is PPV only and NOT on Bravo, I cant see that being the case to be honest though but we shall have to wait and see. Its my birthday on the 21st April and got tickets the day they went on sale so I dont mind if its on Bravo or not!!!

    UFC 68 was ok, but why has Randy come back? OK, he is still a strong guy and he will take some beating but he is over 40, he has got smashed in the big matches e.g. Chuck, he moves around weights. Why not just call it a day and stick by his word!
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    plateletplatelet Posts: 26,386
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    Sylvia v Couture 5/10 (5/5 for Randy 0/5 for Sylvia)
    Lambert v Babalu 8/10
    Franklin MacDonald (7/10)
    Hughes Lytle 6/10 boring fight

    no really great match, looking forward to watching Cro Crop v Couture now though…

    I think the reason Randy came back was obvious - he could destroy the guy holding the belt. I expect he will re-retire after the reverse happens with Cro Crop

    UFC 70 is indeed pay per view, quite normal for events that are in the country, otherwise no one’s gonna fork out for the tickets

    69 is on bravo on the 9th April, followed by premiere of ultimate fighter 5 on the 10th

    schedule is published here: http://www.uk.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=event.Calendar
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    Psycho_NedPsycho_Ned Posts: 17,745
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    I think the brawl at the hall (last UFC event over here) was on PPV only as well though I think that was on Sky box office?
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    plateletplatelet Posts: 26,386
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    yep in those days sky was UFCs home, about one program a fortnight, usually about 03:00 if I remember correctly and Ken Shamrock to boot
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    burbsburbs Posts: 1,029
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    platelet wrote:
    Sylvia v Couture 5/10 (5/5 for Randy 0/5 for Sylvia)
    Lambert v Babalu 8/10
    Franklin MacDonald (7/10)
    Hughes Lytle 6/10 boring fight

    no really great match, looking forward to watching Cro Crop v Couture now though…

    I think the reason Randy came back was obvious - he could destroy the guy holding the belt. I expect he will re-retire after the reverse happens with Cro Crop

    UFC 70 is indeed pay per view, quite normal for events that are in the country, otherwise no one’s gonna fork out for the tickets

    69 is on bravo on the 9th April, followed by premiere of ultimate fighter 5 on the 10th

    schedule is published here: http://www.uk.ufc.com/index.cfm?fa=event.Calendar

    I understand that he probably thought he would beat Sylvia but he had still retired, surely that just makes a mockery of his decision. I personally dont think he ever intended to retire. As you say Cro Crop will finish him without any problem and then hopefully he will call it a day for real.
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    petestanpetestan Posts: 3,527
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    Cheers for the info. guys, it looks like it's PPV or nothing then, I certainly ain't paying out £150 for a ticket which it looks like is the cheapest still available when I checked.

    I suppose there are loads on ebay which I thought was going to be stopped so that people can't cash in on something they have no interest in.
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    plateletplatelet Posts: 26,386
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    burbs wrote:
    I understand that he probably thought he would beat Sylvia but he had still retired, surely that just makes a mockery of his decision. I personally dont think he ever intended to retire. As you say Cro Crop will finish him without any problem and then hopefully he will call it a day for real.

    I dunno, I think it's more likely that it was difficult for him, sitting there as a commentator, thinking, "you know I could flatten that mug" whilst Sylvia gloried in it. And hey, I expect it will at least make him a couple of good paydays.
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    plateletplatelet Posts: 26,386
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    petestan wrote:
    Cheers for the info. guys, it looks like it's PPV or nothing then, I certainly ain't paying out £150 for a ticket which it looks like is the cheapest still available when I checked.

    I suppose there are loads on ebay which I thought was going to be stopped so that people can't cash in on something they have no interest in.

    I gotta say, I think unless you can afford the top notch seats, I can't see how it's worth it. I don't think it's worth paying out for the "lesser" seats, to watch it on a big screen just so you can smell the blood. Unless you can get close enough to actually see what's going on live, I think you're better off with the PPV.
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    burbsburbs Posts: 1,029
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    I was lucky with regard to the UFC in Manchester, as it is my birthday Im going as a present, but as Platelet said, if i didnt have top seats I wouldnt go, £25 seats are probably in the car park!!

    I've got to admit that the match ups at the moment are not really exciting me that much. The matches seem to be a bit of a let down at the moment.
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    nfc90210nfc90210 Posts: 31
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    From...

    http://www.ivansblog.com/
    Monday, March 05, 2007

    Mixed Martial Arts--- UFC's Relationship with HBO Continues to Evolve

    by Ivan Trembow
    Originally Published on MMAWeekly


    An article by the Associated Press has addressed the issue of the UFC's relationship with HBO Sports, and the Wrestling Observer recently reported on some of the points of contention between the two companies as well.

    Zuffa has been in negotiations to air UFC programming on HBO for quite some time. Any potential deal with HBO would not conflict with Zuffa's Spike TV deal. Zuffa's deal with Spike TV is an exclusive basic cable deal, but Spike's exclusivity does not cover premium cable (like HBO and Showtime) or broadcast television (CBS, ABC, NBC, Fox, MyNetworkTV, and The CW Network).

    The Associated Press report said, "[HBO executive Mark] Taffet said he isn't worried about UFC's rise. The two companies are negotiating over HBO possibly airing a UFC fight. However, there are questions about which company will produce the fight and who will call it — along with some hard feelings. One of HBO's most well-known ringside announcers is Jim Lampley, who has bashed the sport of mixed martial arts and the UFC."

    In addition, HBO Sports President Ross Greenburg recently told MultiChannel News, "We're still measuring it, looking at it, and getting comfortable with the UFC."

    The Wrestling Observer has elaborated on the status of the negotiations between Zuffa and HBO, specifically focusing on the disagreements over control, production crews, and announcers.

    The Observer reported, "HBO wants full control of the product, and to use its crew and its announcers and cover it like a network broadcast team would cover a major sporting event. UFC doesn't want to give up its control of the product, wants its own crew to film it, and wants to use its own announcers, who are closer to pro wrestling announcers whose role is to build up the product as opposed to providing detached, objective commentary."

    The Observer added that there are two factors that have made a UFC-HBO deal more likely to happen than it was a few months ago, with the April 21st show from England being the UFC's target date for its HBO debut.

    One factor is that with Showtime having aired the first MMA event on premium cable (EliteXC), and with the event being internally considered a ratings success by premium cable standards, it has led to "both parties [HBO and Zuffa] wanting to get in the game now and speed up working through whatever problems might be there."

    The other factor that makes a UFC-HBO deal more likely to happen is the fact that if Zuffa does not agree to a deal on HBO's terms, HBO could easily find other MMA promotions that would agree to its terms.

    So, even if the terms of the deal are not favorable, Zuffa might still want to sign with HBO, if for no other reason than to prevent any other MMA promotion from signing a deal with HBO. This scenario is not as far-fetched as it might seem at first glance. The Observer previously reported that the IFL had been in negotiations for a national TV deal with the Versus Network when Zuffa bought the WEC and got it a deal to be the exclusive MMA partner of the Versus Network. (This was before the IFL struck a deal with MyNetworkTV.)

    Zuffa president Dana White has said consistently over the past year that the UFC would be on HBO "very soon." This has been said as recently as this past week and as far back as April 2006, when White first mentioned HBO during a radio interview on 1140 KHTK in Sacramento.

    An article in January on the boxing web site Seconds Out reported that HBO Sports did not want to air MMA programming at all, specifically saying that HBO Sports president Ross Greenburg had "opposed the UFC deal as vigorously as possible" and was doing "everything in his power not to televise mixed martial arts."

    Seconds Out feature writer Thomas Hauser wrote that HBO Chairman and CEO Chris Albrecht, in an unprecedented move, actually veto'd Greenburg and insisted that HBO would air MMA programming, leaving Greenburg only to negotiate the details of such a deal.

    The Seconds Out article added that the veto from Albrecht "represented a marked shift in HBO's corporate culture... in the past, an HBO chief executive officer would not have ordered sports programming over the objection of the sports department."

    Greenburg was quoted on the record in the Seconds Out article as saying, "I wouldn't say that I’m a big fan of UFC... but when I started at HBO, I wasn’t a big fan of boxing, either. I recognize the fact that UFC appeals to a fan base and demographic that boxing doesn’t have right now."

    Seth Abraham, who was the president of HBO Sports before Greenburg, went on a now-infamous tirade in the article, and his rather outlandish statements about MMA are said to represent the opinions of some of the hard-liners who, unlike Abraham, still work at HBO Sports.

    Abraham said, "I think it's ridiculous for HBO to televise UFC. When I was at HBO, we had discussions once or twice a year about professional wrestling. We all agreed that it would get good ratings, and we also agreed that it would tarnish our boxing franchise. I feel the same way about UFC. Boxing has a storied history. When HBO attaches itself to boxing, it attaches itself to Joe Louis, Sugar Ray Robinson, and Muhammad Ali. It attaches itself to history, achievement, and glory. UFC has none of those things, and it will tarnish HBO's boxing franchise. Will UFC get good ratings? Probably, but so would naked boxing."
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    nfc90210nfc90210 Posts: 31
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    A Dave Meltzer penned, "LA Times" article on Couture's victory.

    From...

    http://www.latimes.com/sports/boxing/la-spw-mmacol9mar09,1,7988710.story?ctrack=1&cset=true
    Couture's win was a night to remember

    His victory over Sylvia is one of the greatest moments in MMA history.

    By Dave Meltzer, Special to the Times

    11:10 PM PST, March 8, 2007

    If mixed martial arts is here to stay as a sport in the United States, then years from now people will look back and marvel at how much of the sports media missed what would have to be one of the great sports stories and moments of the era.

    In an octagon cage and with the UFC's world heavyweight title at stake, seven seconds into the fight, undersized heavyweight Randy Couture, the most admired and popular fighter in the history of the sport in the United States, threw a low kick, and then came over the top with the hardest overhand right of his career.

    The least popular champion in UFC history, the monstrous Tim Sylvia, was knocked on his back. At the same moment, a sellout crowd of 19,079 fans leapt to their feet. For the next half hour, they never sat down again. With the exception of 21 seconds, Couture dominated the fight. With ten seconds left, the crowd, in unison, reacted like they were in Times Square, and New Year's was coming early. "Ten, nine, eight...." The pop built and exploded as the clock hit zero. The first seven seconds, and the last ten seconds are sports moments that none of the people there live, nor the two million or so watching on PPV or in sports bars around North America, will likely ever forget.

    Randy Couture, at nearly 44 years old, came out of retirement to become the UFC's world heavyweight champion for a third time. Giving up seven inches in height, a foot in reach, and probably in the range of 60 pounds when they got in the ring, Couture told a story that even Sylvester Stallone didn't dare tell in "Rocky Balboa," a movie that in many ways inspired the fight.

    In the days since the fight on March 10th at the Nationwide Arena in Columbus, Ohio, the few sportswriters who did realize they saw something that will become legendary struggled to find a sports comparison. In the end, there isn't one.

    Jack Nicklaus won the Masters at 46. But you simply can't compare golf with fighting. Golf is a skill sport that older men have been able to compete with younger men at. With the exception of Couture, the oldest man to ever win a major promotion championship in MMA was Dan Severn, at 37, and that's when the sport was in its infancy. Couture is the only man over 40 in history to be truly competitive at the top level.

    George Blanda won the NFL MVP award at 43. That was an improbable series of miracles week after week where Blanda either threw a touchdown pass, kicked a field goal or a conversion to lead the Oakland Raiders to wins (or in one case a tie) six straight Sundays. But that was still a team effort.

    Muhammad Ali beating George Foreman in Zaire is the comparison many have made. In both cases, you have a bigger and more powerful knockout artist who was heavily favored to not just beat, but possibly hurt badly, a beloved but aging former champion. But the aging Ali was all of 32 years old at the time, and he was not coming out of retirement, nor had he been knocked out in two of his three prior matches at light-heavyweight before retirement.

    Foreman himself was older, 45, when he knocked out Michael Moorer in 1994 to become the oldest heavyweight champion in boxing. But Foreman was much bigger and stronger than Moorer, and had incredible physical gifts that Couture simply couldn't match. He could take punishment like few heavyweights, and he may have been the hardest punching heavyweight in history. The fact was, Moorer was making Foreman look like he had no business in the ring with him for nine rounds, until Foreman tapped Moorer's chin and ended the fight.

    Couture was dominant in every aspect of the game from start to finish.

    Even when Stallone made "Rocky Balboa," which in a small way inspired this match (the main inspiration is they simply had no other match that would do the kind of business this one would, and the logical contender for Sylvia, Brandon Vera, was involved in a contract dispute with UFC), in the end, Rocky didn't beat Mason Dixon. That was too much for even a scripted movie. But the movie character proved himself a champion by defying logic, having his moment where he was competitive, and leaving with pride and dignity. The perfect venue to capitalize on the movie was pro wrestling. On paper, the UFC is probably the worst place to try and reenact a Stallone movie.

    Without question, from a business standpoint, this was the right call. It's pretty well guaranteed it will be the biggest PPV event of any type for at least the first quarter of this year.

    But what if Couture was completely shot? Sure, Couture is an excellent wrestler, but Sylvia had eaten younger wrestlers like Ricco Rodriguez and Jeff Monson for lunch. He left UFC's hope for their own Mike Tyson-like scary heavyweight---Andrei "The Pit Bull" Arlovski---whimpering like a cocker spaniel.

    Worse, the theme of MMA in 2006 was that the legendary champions of the past, Ken Shamrock, Mark Coleman, Royce Gracie, Kazushi Sakuraba, Mark Kerr, and Couture himself, were all shown that time had moved on. A new generation of fighter---younger, faster and better trained in the sport from their youth, as opposed to converted wrestlers and Jiu Jitsu practitioners---had taken over. Couture was one of the last of the two-hand set shot guys still trying to compete with the slam dunkers.

    But there was no mistaking people loved Couture, and even more, loved a good story. Ticket sales took off in the days after Couture went on "Inside the UFC" and announced the match. It sold out farther in advance than any major MMA show in history. But the experts feared he was a little lamb being led to a giant slaughter.

    Sylvia was 6-8, and had to dehydrate himself down to make the 265-pound heavyweight limit. He weighed in officially at 263. In the cage, he was probably between 280 and 285 pounds. Couture came in at 222.5 pounds, a weight most modern light-heavyweights are going into battle at after rehydrating. The gate topped $3 million, the first time such a figure had been reached outside of Japan or Las Vegas, and broke a record set by the Rolling Stones for the largest indoor entertainment gate ever in the state of Ohio.

    Even Couture's friends quietly hoped for simply a good showing. The hope was that he would show himself to at least be competitive, and come out of it retaining his dignity, and more importantly, his physical health. As long as he got a takedown or two, got a little bit of offense in, and lasted until the third round, it would be a huge moral win. He'd leave with an even bigger standing ovation than when he announced his retirement on Feb. 4, 2006, after being knocked out by Chuck Liddell.

    Of course everyone knew what an incredible thing it would be for both the sport and for business for him to win, but it really wasn't all that hard to get people in UFC to talk about Sylvia's probable upcoming title defense later this year against Mirko Cro Cop.

    Ironically, Couture would have disagreed with both statements. A week before the fight, it was noted to him what a great thing for the sport it would be if he won. He'd give the sport a champion the older sports establishment couldn't shun because it didn't look like the boxing they grew up with. An army vet, college grad and Olympic team alternate couldn't be dismissed as a tattooed, Mohawk-haircut bar-room brawler, who they saw as a thug simply cleaned up with rock music, flashy lights and 10,000 screaming fans to look legit.

    Instead, the UFC, of all places, would have a hero for post-40 men by proving hard work and smart strategy can overcome all kinds of physical and age disadvantages in one of the physically toughest sports in the world.

    But Couture was there to win, not just to show up, try not to embarrass himself, and collect a big paycheck at the end.

    He wasn't the best athlete, the biggest, nor the strongest, nor the best in the world at any specific discipline. He was hardly unbeatable, and perhaps that made him that much more admired. He hadn't had one fight in the last seven years that if he didn't bring his A game, he would have won. And there were several days, due to bad strategy, and perhaps outside stresses and issues in life, where he didn't bring his A game, and he did lose, and in some cases, lose badly.

    He was a very normal high school coach (before UFC took off, Couture was a high school wrestling coach in Gresham, Ore.), who, aside from being a remarkably fit older guy, hardly looked like the kind of guy who would fight the baddest men on the planet. But on more than one occasion, he was capable of doing things decidedly not normal. He had been the underdog in nine previous UFC fights, and won eight of them, including stopping Chuck Liddell and spanking Tito Ortiz at the age of 40.

    If he was the best at anything, maybe it was at knowing how to train for his own strengths and limitations. Maybe it was at avoiding abusing his body, to where he didn't have the injuries that would have doomed people younger than him. Whether it was through smart training, lack of drug abuse, or simply genetics and luck, he was a 43-year-old athlete who had competed at a top level for a quarter-century. Yet he had never had a major joint or muscle operation. Except for winning two world titles after the age of 40, that is probably his most amazing athletic accomplishment.

    Nobody at 40 can dominate a highly physical sport at the top level simply on natural athletic ability. Very few can even survive to play at the top level. Michael Jordan was the greatest athlete of our generation, and he couldn't do it. Muhammad Ali couldn't. Dan Gable couldn't. Even the famed Russian wrestler, Alexander Karelin, the single most physically dominant athlete over a long period of time in any combat sport in modern history, couldn't do it. Think about this. Karelin is four years younger than Couture. He came from the same sport about at the same time as Couture, and was throughout his prime, so far superior it's not even worthy of discussion. Yet even his body broke down to the point he retired seven years ago.

    If anything, maybe he was the guy who puts down on paper the best strategy to beat people who expect their athletic ability, size, power and mostly youth, to guarantee them a win. Most likely, he trained that much harder, and ate that much stricter. And none of the success went to his head. Perhaps what kept him competitive was the knowledge he really wasn't better than anyone else, and his success came by working harder than his competition. And these last few months in training, when his body was telling him he couldn't work harder, he listened, and worked smarter.

    To the people who saw it, it was one of the greatest fights of all time. Unfortunately, it's one of those things that could only be fully comprehended in the moment they took place. People will tell their kids, and grandkids about this one night, and this normal man who did things that weren't normal, and this unreal night where a movie script nobody would dare write happened in real life. Undoubtedly, there will some day be a movie chronicling this story about the 21st century "Cinderella Man."

    Of course, the real fight and real night will be easily accessible on a DVD, or whatever technology will exist in those days. People will watch it, and unfortunately, it's very doubtful they'll be able to even come close to understanding what the fuss is all about.

    Sure, the crowd was going crazy for the match, but why? Why was Couture already a Hall of Famer when he only had a 15-8 record? They may even see it as a boring match. Aside from that first punch, there were no telling blows, no near submissions, and not even any true reversals. Couture was never in trouble, but after the opening seconds, Sylvia was never in danger of being finished either. It wasn't even close going down the wire. One guy was old, although he was in great shape. The other was just goofy looking. Sure, the announcers were putting it over as something unreal and the fans seemed to think they were seeing something special. But people looking back won't understand, and think it just shows how little the fans in 2007 must have understood the sport.

    Of course, those of us who saw it will never be able to fully explain it. But we'll know it has something to do with concepts like time and context, and the moment. In 2007, there was this movie. And there was this match to take advantage of the movie. And there was this normal man, whose main talent is that when the odds say he can't possibly win, he almost always does. There was this sport at a crossroads, that could have either gone up or down depending on what happened. There was this giant opponent. And there was this night. And there was this crowd. And there was this fear that this legend's comeback was going to be embarrassing, or worse, he'd get badly hurt.

    And there was this moment, when an overhand right connected. And for the next half hour, it was all euphoric magic. And everyone celebrated until 3 a.m. And they woke up later in a stupor, still not being able to fully grasp what they just saw happen and why they were feeling the way they were feeling. But they knew that for the rest of their lives, that moment would be etched in their memories, and frozen in time.

    Dave Meltzer is the creator and author of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter, a leading publication in coverage of pro wrestling and mixed martial arts. For more information, go to www.wrestlingobserver.com.
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    burbsburbs Posts: 1,029
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    Thanks for those but why do you keep posting pages and pages from other sites? I dont see the point?
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    [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 36
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    Does anyone know when TUF5 is going to start on Bravo? Saw an advert for it the other day but didn't see a date

    ETA - Bravo website says that its starting this Tues at 11pm!

    Yay!
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    DejaVoodooDejaVoodoo Posts: 5,764
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    UFC 69...Watch the main event on Monday night on Bravo at 9pm.
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    plateletplatelet Posts: 26,386
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    DejaVoodoo wrote:
    UFC 69...Watch the main event on Monday night on Bravo at 9pm.

    Just caught up with this last night. Wasn't the best card to be honest. Really disappointed by the Koscheck Sanchez fight

    Last fight of the card was great though. Funny to see Matt hughes licking his lips at his prospects now.

    UFC70 looks to be even worse. Strange to hear that it will be available for free in the sates, whilst we have to pay the PPV this time.

    Rampage Jackson v Chuck @ UFC71, now that's one I'm begging to see.
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    Dan27Dan27 Posts: 9,652
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    I thought '69 was better than it looked on paper.. Who would have given Serra any chance of hell over doing in GSP.. Incredible.

    The Leonard Garcia vs Roger Huerta fight was amazing, and Yushin Okami has really impressed me in his win over Mike Swick. Kendall Grove is turning into an absolute weapon and Im glad someone shut up Diego Sanchez!

    UFC 70 is going to be great IMO.. The card is loaded and the UK fans will contribute to one hell of an atmosphere.
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    petestanpetestan Posts: 3,527
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    Can one of you guy's who have been watching UFC longer than me tell me is the new guy joining who was announced on UFC69 a good one?
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