This was taken at the moment RVP skied one over the bar last night. The man on the left messing about with his phone, appearing to take no interest in the game, is our esteemed Chief Exec...
This was taken at the moment RVP skied one over the bar last night. The man on the left messing about with his phone, appearing to take no interest in the game, is our esteemed Chief Exec...
im not a man u fan but im confident you will make into the next round at least if you were out of europe then maybe moyes would go but untill you are he wont
Our situation will serve as Exhibit A for not only getting the manager selection right but also the hiring process. Beggars belief the amateurish we went about the whole thing. At no other company would the retiring CEO or whatever have sole responsibility of choosing his successor without also considering - and when I say considering I mean holding multiple interviews - other viable candidates.
Moyes is a good manager no doubt. I do feel sorry for him even if the stuff he says makes it difficult to empathise with him. It seems he has no philosophy beyond full backs overloading the wide areas and crossing which is fine bit it means he was left relying solely on results much like SAF in the last 3 years. In a way he shot himself in the foot by doing this because had he hinted at some grand masterplan in the distance he would have been afforded more leeway for sure - AVB at Spurs and BR at Liverpool are two such example with the latter eventually combining performances with results.
I have mentioned before that last season's title win papaered over a hell of a lot of cracks, a lot of matches were generally won by one-goal margins and every game tended to be more difficult than it needed to be. The sqaud has been crying out for an overhaul for quite some time now and it annoyed me when performances would be overlooked because we usually won for that very reason. If SAF were still in charge we would probably be still be challenging whilst looking unconvincing and everything would be alright on Planet United.
This team needed a Mourinho/Klopp/Guardiola to minimise the effects of change and for the legitimacy to be able to implement their own ideas and have the players buy into it. Moyes was thrown in the deep end in that respect but he didn't help himself by sittng on his hands and cursing his luck either. The fact is the team he sent out was good enough to get a result yesterday, as were the teams he put out against Fulham, Stoke, Sunderland, Swansea, Cardiff, West Brom, Southampton and so on and so forth. There comes a point where you have to question what falls under the remit of a manager if every game we we look clueless whether winning or losing with every result seemingly hinging on the flip of a coin or the football gods rather than any influence from the manager. A manager that sends a team out in hope of a result regardless of the opposition is a manager only in name and no amount of world class signings in the summer are going to rescue us from the reality presented.
But also if Moyes was to be leaving by 'mutual consent', then him being sacked is technically nonsense. So either way they're right.
Unless our season continues in much the same way and/or we get a few good hidings by city,liverpool,everton I think he may go in the summer.
Otherwise it will depend where we are after about the first ten games next season.
If he goes or stays, a large percentage of the dross that's been pulling on the shirt this season can do one too. Not just talking about the axis of drivel either. >:(
Our situation will serve as Exhibit A for not only getting the manager selection right but also the hiring process. Beggars belief the amateurish we went about the whole thing. At no other company would the retiring CEO or whatever have sole responsibility of choosing his successor without also considering - and when I say considering I mean holding multiple interviews - other viable candidates.
Moyes is a good manager no doubt. I do feel sorry for him even if the stuff he says makes it difficult to empathise with him. It seems he has no philosophy beyond full backs overloading the wide areas and crossing which is fine bit it means he was left relying solely on results much like SAF in the last 3 years. In a way he shot himself in the foot by doing this because had he hinted at some grand masterplan in the distance he would have been afforded more leeway for sure - AVB at Spurs and BR at Liverpool are two such example with the latter eventually combining performances with results.
I have mentioned before that last season's title win papaered over a hell of a lot of cracks, a lot of matches were generally won by one-goal margins and every game tended to be more difficult than it needed to be. The sqaud has been crying out for an overhaul for quite some time now and it annoyed me when performances would be overlooked because we usually won for that very reason. If SAF were still in charge we would probably be still be challenging whilst looking unconvincing and everything would be alright on Planet United.
This team needed a Mourinho/Klopp/Guardiola to minimise the effects of change and for the legitimacy to be able to implement their own ideas and have the players buy into it. Moyes was thrown in the deep end in that respect but he didn't help himself by sittng on his hands and cursing his luck either. The fact is the team he sent out was good enough to get a result yesterday, as were the teams he put out against Fulham, Stoke, Sunderland, Swansea, Cardiff, West Brom, Southampton and so on and so forth. There comes a point where you have to question what falls under the remit of a manager if every game we we look clueless whether winning or losing with every result seemingly hinging on the flip of a coin or the football gods rather than any influence from the manager. A manager that sends a team out in hope of a result regardless of the opposition is a manager only in name and no amount of world class signings in the summer are going to rescue us from the reality presented.
I know we have disagreed on the state of the squad last season but that aside your post is 100% spot on and i really struggle to see how anyone could argue with it.
Unless our season continues in much the same way and/or we get a few good hidings by city,liverpool,everton I think he may go in the summer.
Otherwise it will depend where we are after about the first ten games next season.
If he goes or stays, a large percentage of the dross that's been pulling on the shirt this season can do one too. Not just talking about the axis of drivel either. >:(
If he doesn't go in the summer and we end this season about 8th - a very Everton type position - finishing 8th with no trophies, so Moyes will be delighted and feel very at home! .... will he attract any players in the summer? World class players, I mean.
If he doesn't - and having seen the evidence of his first season who would blame them for not wanting to play for him! .... then he'll have the same squad and just carry on in the same way as he has this season so we have another disasterous season.
If he doesn't go in the summer and we end this season about 8th - a very Everton type position - finishing 8th with no trophies, so Moyes will be delighted and feel very at home! .... will he attract any players in the summer? World class players, I mean.
If he doesn't - and having seen the evidence of his first season who would blame them for not wanting to play for him! .... then he'll have the same squad and just carry on in the same way as he has this season so we have another disasterous season.
The sooner he goes the better.
You don't seriously believe that he'd be delighted with 8th place and has probably not slept a full night knowing what is expected of him do you? If you were typing in your sarcasm font then apologies! !
Our situation will serve as Exhibit A for not only getting the manager selection right but also the hiring process. Beggars belief the amateurish we went about the whole thing. At no other company would the retiring CEO or whatever have sole responsibility of choosing his successor without also considering - and when I say considering I mean holding multiple interviews - other viable candidates.
Moyes is a good manager no doubt. I do feel sorry for him even if the stuff he says makes it difficult to empathise with him. It seems he has no philosophy beyond full backs overloading the wide areas and crossing which is fine bit it means he was left relying solely on results much like SAF in the last 3 years. In a way he shot himself in the foot by doing this because had he hinted at some grand masterplan in the distance he would have been afforded more leeway for sure - AVB at Spurs and BR at Liverpool are two such example with the latter eventually combining performances with results.
I have mentioned before that last season's title win papaered over a hell of a lot of cracks, a lot of matches were generally won by one-goal margins and every game tended to be more difficult than it needed to be. The sqaud has been crying out for an overhaul for quite some time now and it annoyed me when performances would be overlooked because we usually won for that very reason. If SAF were still in charge we would probably be still be challenging whilst looking unconvincing and everything would be alright on Planet United.
This team needed a Mourinho/Klopp/Guardiola to minimise the effects of change and for the legitimacy to be able to implement their own ideas and have the players buy into it. Moyes was thrown in the deep end in that respect but he didn't help himself by sittng on his hands and cursing his luck either. The fact is the team he sent out was good enough to get a result yesterday, as were the teams he put out against Fulham, Stoke, Sunderland, Swansea, Cardiff, West Brom, Southampton and so on and so forth. There comes a point where you have to question what falls under the remit of a manager if every game we we look clueless whether winning or losing with every result seemingly hinging on the flip of a coin or the football gods rather than any influence from the manager. A manager that sends a team out in hope of a result regardless of the opposition is a manager only in name and no amount of world class signings in the summer are going to rescue us from the reality presented.
Completely agree with everything in this post, well said.
You don't seriously believe that he'd be delighted with 8th place and has probably not slept a full night knowing what is expected of him do you? If you were typing in your sarcasm font then apologies! !
Being picked as the manager of MU must have been a bit like winning the lottery, annually for several years, for a run of the mill career manager who had never been in a position of uncertaintainty and insecurity before. I am beginning to feel sorry for him!
There are plenty of others involved in this car crash scenario from the Board right down to the players. There should have been one very strict rule which might just have made a difference. No staff or players from Everton and work with what we already have.
What we already had are some very good players, some overpaid ones, and some mediocre ones. As many others say, half the team are just not of the expected quality.
I recall many years ago we had quality players who did not win many titles and trophies and probably did not get paid much either but under Atkinson and Docherty (and in Div 2!) at least they were a joy to watch with the skill and enthusiasm that would take a big scalp every now and again.
Yes, times have changed and we expect consistency and trophies, or maybe just a few more wins against middle of the table clubs would be a bonus. Its a competitve World out there and we need players that will compete on the pitch.
Sacking the owners (impossible) the directors, the coaches and half the players would make just as much difference as sacking the manager.
Don't blame the monkey when the organ grinder plays an unfamiliar tune!
I see United play Hull on April 12th. By then Hull will be all but safe and Steve Bruce will have done his job there. Wonder which dugout he'll be in? Bruce with Giggs as assistant would be my call. Two of the best.
steve bruce jesus wept, he would be worse then moyes. i don't get the suggestions about giggs stepping in either, he has done nothing whatsoever in football management. he would probably have us playing the same 4-4-2 rubbish as moyes, it has been ingrained into every player that has worked with fergie. we need a clean break from anything linked to the previous regime, lets be honest, we needed mourinho, cannot believe we didn't give him the job, incredible decision...
p.s. i would of preferred guardiola or klopp over mourinho, but neither were available...
steve bruce jesus wept, he would be worse then moyes :rolleyes: i don't get the suggestions about giggs stepping in either, he has done nothing whatsoever in football management. he would probably have us playing the same 4-4-2 rubbish as moyes, it has been ingrained into every player that has worked with fergie. we need a clean break from anything linked to the previous regime, lets be honest, we needed mourinho, cannot believe we didn't give him the job, incredible decision...
p.s. i would of preferred guardiola or klopp over mourinho, but neither were available...
Mourinho should have got the job in my eyes, but that ship has sailed and it wont be docking at Old Trafford again.
There should have been one very strict rule which might just have made a difference. No staff or players from Everton and work with what we already have.
you cant do that though. If you give the man the job you have to allow him to create the coaching team he wants to work with. Ill criticise moyes for a lot of things but i wont criticise him for wanting his own team with him.
Whether they are good enough is a different question but whoever got the job and will get the job in the future has the right to take their own team with them if desired.
steve bruce jesus wept, he would be worse then moyes. i don't get the suggestions about giggs stepping in either, he has done nothing whatsoever in football management. he would probably have us playing the same 4-4-2 rubbish as moyes, it has been ingrained into every player that has worked with fergie. we need a clean break from anything linked to the previous regime, lets be honest, we needed mourinho, cannot believe we didn't give him the job, incredible decision...
p.s. i would of preferred guardiola or klopp over mourinho, but neither were available...
I don't think it really matters who steps in if Moyes was to go because the season is knackered and it would only be a short term appointment for 10 games anyway. Someone who would at least have the respect of the dressing room and lift the place is the only real requirement because the next guy coming in would be putting his own stamp on things anyway.
Klopp is the next realistic man for the job although i can't say I'm totally convinced.
you cant do that though. If you give the man the job you have to allow him to create the coaching team he wants to work with. Ill criticise moyes for a lot of things but i wont criticise him for wanting his own team with him.
Whether they are good enough is a different question but whoever got the job and will get the job in the future has the right to take their own team with them if desired.
You can if I were writing his contract! ;-)
BTW, who is that other dim looking person who sits with him and Neville?
steve bruce jesus wept, he would be worse then moyes. i don't get the suggestions about giggs stepping in either, he has done nothing whatsoever in football management. he would probably have us playing the same 4-4-2 rubbish as moyes, it has been ingrained into every player that has worked with fergie. we need a clean break from anything linked to the previous regime, lets be honest, we needed mourinho, cannot believe we didn't give him the job, incredible decision...
p.s. i would of preferred guardiola or klopp over mourinho, but neither were available...
As someone said previously, when Fergie decided he was retiring and Mourinho was leaving Real Madrid the planets seemed to have aligned. Not going for Mourinho was a big mistake, but I get the sense that we may get that opportunity again...
As for Giggs coming into the role, I'm also concerned that appointing someone with no first hand experience of management would be treacherous, but at the same time Giggs does know the club and its players better than anyone. There would be no need for a period where he decides who is and who isn't up to it like Moyes has had (with Fabio and Anderson first to be disposed of). And I suspect Giggs has quite a clear idea of what needs to be done, he just needs to communicate it to Moyes!
Overall I'd prefer to move for someone who would be able to hit the ground running and be unfazed by the job, be it Mourinho, Klopp or whoever. But if the board were to sack Moyes in the next few weeks (which I don't think they will) then it may be the right moment to give Giggs the position on an interim basis. He'd have a couple of months to play his cards right and we'd get a good idea of whether he really is capable of stepping into the biggest shoes in club football management.
Comments
This was taken at the moment RVP skied one over the bar last night. The man on the left messing about with his phone, appearing to take no interest in the game, is our esteemed Chief Exec...
The man keeps digging a deeper hole for himself.
I Agree with him. David Moyes is staying, whatever the results.
But also if Moyes was to be leaving by 'mutual consent', then him being sacked is technically nonsense. So either way they're right.
I'd put money on Moyes still being here in August.
Moyes is a good manager no doubt. I do feel sorry for him even if the stuff he says makes it difficult to empathise with him. It seems he has no philosophy beyond full backs overloading the wide areas and crossing which is fine bit it means he was left relying solely on results much like SAF in the last 3 years. In a way he shot himself in the foot by doing this because had he hinted at some grand masterplan in the distance he would have been afforded more leeway for sure - AVB at Spurs and BR at Liverpool are two such example with the latter eventually combining performances with results.
I have mentioned before that last season's title win papaered over a hell of a lot of cracks, a lot of matches were generally won by one-goal margins and every game tended to be more difficult than it needed to be. The sqaud has been crying out for an overhaul for quite some time now and it annoyed me when performances would be overlooked because we usually won for that very reason. If SAF were still in charge we would probably be still be challenging whilst looking unconvincing and everything would be alright on Planet United.
This team needed a Mourinho/Klopp/Guardiola to minimise the effects of change and for the legitimacy to be able to implement their own ideas and have the players buy into it. Moyes was thrown in the deep end in that respect but he didn't help himself by sittng on his hands and cursing his luck either. The fact is the team he sent out was good enough to get a result yesterday, as were the teams he put out against Fulham, Stoke, Sunderland, Swansea, Cardiff, West Brom, Southampton and so on and so forth. There comes a point where you have to question what falls under the remit of a manager if every game we we look clueless whether winning or losing with every result seemingly hinging on the flip of a coin or the football gods rather than any influence from the manager. A manager that sends a team out in hope of a result regardless of the opposition is a manager only in name and no amount of world class signings in the summer are going to rescue us from the reality presented.
Unless our season continues in much the same way and/or we get a few good hidings by city,liverpool,everton I think he may go in the summer.
Otherwise it will depend where we are after about the first ten games next season.
If he goes or stays, a large percentage of the dross that's been pulling on the shirt this season can do one too. Not just talking about the axis of drivel either. >:(
Apprently he was 33/1 after beating palace
The odds change when a lot of people bet on something. It doesn't mean anything.
As would i.
I know we have disagreed on the state of the squad last season but that aside your post is 100% spot on and i really struggle to see how anyone could argue with it.
If he doesn't go in the summer and we end this season about 8th - a very Everton type position - finishing 8th with no trophies, so Moyes will be delighted and feel very at home! .... will he attract any players in the summer? World class players, I mean.
If he doesn't - and having seen the evidence of his first season who would blame them for not wanting to play for him! .... then he'll have the same squad and just carry on in the same way as he has this season so we have another disasterous season.
The sooner he goes the better.
You don't seriously believe that he'd be delighted with 8th place and has probably not slept a full night knowing what is expected of him do you? If you were typing in your sarcasm font then apologies! !
Being picked as the manager of MU must have been a bit like winning the lottery, annually for several years, for a run of the mill career manager who had never been in a position of uncertaintainty and insecurity before. I am beginning to feel sorry for him!
There are plenty of others involved in this car crash scenario from the Board right down to the players. There should have been one very strict rule which might just have made a difference. No staff or players from Everton and work with what we already have.
What we already had are some very good players, some overpaid ones, and some mediocre ones. As many others say, half the team are just not of the expected quality.
I recall many years ago we had quality players who did not win many titles and trophies and probably did not get paid much either but under Atkinson and Docherty (and in Div 2!) at least they were a joy to watch with the skill and enthusiasm that would take a big scalp every now and again.
Yes, times have changed and we expect consistency and trophies, or maybe just a few more wins against middle of the table clubs would be a bonus. Its a competitve World out there and we need players that will compete on the pitch.
Sacking the owners (impossible) the directors, the coaches and half the players would make just as much difference as sacking the manager.
Don't blame the monkey when the organ grinder plays an unfamiliar tune!
steve bruce
p.s. i would of preferred guardiola or klopp over mourinho, but neither were available...
Mourinho should have got the job in my eyes, but that ship has sailed and it wont be docking at Old Trafford again.
you cant do that though. If you give the man the job you have to allow him to create the coaching team he wants to work with. Ill criticise moyes for a lot of things but i wont criticise him for wanting his own team with him.
Whether they are good enough is a different question but whoever got the job and will get the job in the future has the right to take their own team with them if desired.
I don't think it really matters who steps in if Moyes was to go because the season is knackered and it would only be a short term appointment for 10 games anyway. Someone who would at least have the respect of the dressing room and lift the place is the only real requirement because the next guy coming in would be putting his own stamp on things anyway.
Klopp is the next realistic man for the job although i can't say I'm totally convinced.
You can if I were writing his contract! ;-)
BTW, who is that other dim looking person who sits with him and Neville?
Our next five games could be the end for him if things go badly.
West Brom (A)
Liverpool (H)
Olympiakos (H)
West Ham (A)
City (H)
As someone said previously, when Fergie decided he was retiring and Mourinho was leaving Real Madrid the planets seemed to have aligned. Not going for Mourinho was a big mistake, but I get the sense that we may get that opportunity again...
As for Giggs coming into the role, I'm also concerned that appointing someone with no first hand experience of management would be treacherous, but at the same time Giggs does know the club and its players better than anyone. There would be no need for a period where he decides who is and who isn't up to it like Moyes has had (with Fabio and Anderson first to be disposed of). And I suspect Giggs has quite a clear idea of what needs to be done, he just needs to communicate it to Moyes!
Overall I'd prefer to move for someone who would be able to hit the ground running and be unfazed by the job, be it Mourinho, Klopp or whoever. But if the board were to sack Moyes in the next few weeks (which I don't think they will) then it may be the right moment to give Giggs the position on an interim basis. He'd have a couple of months to play his cards right and we'd get a good idea of whether he really is capable of stepping into the biggest shoes in club football management.